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Title: Lawsuits call Missouri jails "debtors’ prisons"
Source:
St. Louis Post-Dispatch
URL Source: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/ ... 57-5ae9-8080-8840e2724891.html
Published: Feb 9, 2015
Author: Paul Hampel
Post Date: 2015-02-09 16:41:59 by Willie Green
Keywords: None
Views: 4801
Comments: 18
ST. LOUIS • Federal class-action lawsuits filed Sunday against the cities of Jennings and Ferguson allege that jails there operate as modern-day debtors’ prisons. The suits were filed in U.S. District Court in St. Louis on behalf of 15 plaintiffs — referred to as “impoverished people” — who were jailed because they could not pay fines for traffic violations and other minor offenses. “They were threatened, abused and left to languish in confinement at the mercy of local officials until their frightened family members could produce enough cash to buy their freedom or until city jail officials decided, days or weeks later, to let them out for free,” the complaint states. The suits were filed on behalf of the plaintiffs by the non-profit legal organization Equal Justice Under Law, based in Washington, and the ArchCity Defenders, a local non-profit group; and by St. Louis University School of Law. “We are seeking an injunction against the Jennings and Ferguson courts in order to stop them from consistently violating peoples’ rights and locking them in jail as a result of their inability to pay,” lawyer Thomas Harvey, executive director of ArchCity Defenders, said Sunday night. Harvey said the lawsuits were in the works for about three months. ArchCity Defenders has criticized St. Louis County municipalities for years. Their work intensified in the wake of the shooting six months ago of Michael Brown, 18, by a Ferguson police officer. Harvey said some claims listed in the class-action suits were problems in other north St. Louis County municipalities, but that Jennings and Ferguson were targeted for litigation for jail conditions there that he said were particularly poor. According to the suit, plaintiffs “are kept in overcrowded cells; they are denied toothbrushes, toothpaste, and soap; they are subjected to the stench of excrement and refuse in their congested cells; they are surrounded by walls smeared with mucus, blood and feces; they are kept in the same clothes for days and weeks without access to laundry or clean undergarments...” Conditions in the Jennings jail are so deplorable, the suit contends, that when inmates are brought to court, "courtroom staff often walks down the hallway spraying Febreze (air freshener) because the stench emanating from the inmates is unbearable." The suits claim that guards at both jails "routinely laugh at the inmates and humiliate them with discriminatory and degrading epithets about their poverty and their physical appearance." The suits allege that money motivated the municipal court systems. “The … modern debtors’ prison scheme has been increasingly profitable to the (cities), earning (them) millions of dollars over the past several years,” the suits state. Ferguson Mayor James Knowles III said Sunday night that he had not seen the suits. He said the city’s jail is currently closed for renovation. “I know that we just underwent a massive renovation of the police department, including the jail facilities,” Knowles said. “I can tell you the city has spent a lot of time and money investing in those facilities and when they reopen ... they will be top of the line.” Knowles denied that Ferguson’s court operated as a cash cow for the city. “Profit was not a motive — absolutely not. As far as the application of fines, the setting of bails, etcetera, that’s not something determined in conjunction with city budget demands,” he said. Jennings officials could not be reached for comment. Some of the plaintiffs in the suit are described as homeless, such as Edward Brown, 62, of Jennings. Brown has received numerous tickets over the years and incurred fines that he could not pay, resulting in extended jail incarcerations. During one court appearance, in 2012, Brown “begged the (Jennings) judge to let him go because he could not afford to pay.” The judge, in fact, did release Brown on that occasion. But when he was released, Jennings “held him in custody until the city of Pine Lawn picked him up, and he again languished in the Pine Lawn jail for several days” because he owed a fine in that city. The suit describes the experiences of one plaintiff, Keilee Fant, as a "Kafkaesque journey." Fant, 37, is a single mother who works as a certified nurse’s assistant. Over the past 20 years, the city of Ferguson has jailed Fant more than a dozen times for her inability to make payments on old traffic tickets. Harvey, with ArchCity Defenders said, “These are poor people struggling to make it week-to-week. These courts have prevented them from living a normal life.” “These are systems that are immoral, unethical and clearly illegal, as well.”
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#1. To: Willie Green (#0)
If you can't pay the fine, don't do the crine.
“They were threatened, abused and left to languish in confinement If you can't pay the fine, then do the time. Either way, a criminal should have the most unpleasant experience, to help deter future repeat offenses. It's call rehabilitation doesn't work... but maybe shame will. Since when is not being able to pay a fine from a criminal conviction be considered as standard everyday debt, like an unpaid college loan? Are we that liberal and sympathetic now? Forget the question. The answer is obvious. We are doomed as a capitalistic society.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Since when is a traffic ticket considered "criminal?"
"Some people march to a different drummer — and some people polka."
It is to the the punitive populists here like Gatlin, misterwhite and Grand Island. I've seen whitey advocate SWAT raids for such minor offenses so it's not a stretch to think that he would want to see someone do hard time for something as minor as as jaywalking offense.
To: GrandIsland Since when is a traffic ticket considered "criminal?" It's still a violation of the law... Traffic tickets are non custodial arrests, generally. Regardless if it's criminal or V&T arrests, it's still shouldn't be equated to college loan or credit card debt. V&T convictions are no different than criminal convictions in the respect that each state allows for either a monetary penalty, jail time penalty or both. Just because today's criminal justice system chooses to punish V&T violators with fines, in general, rather than jail time, does not mean there is a difference between the two. Besides, why deflect away from my point? Why forgive or any kind of punishment of anyone that was found guilty of victimizing our society... unless you are the epitome of liberalness. Don't spin my point... debate it if you have a credible argument. Example: in NY, a Speeding ticket, 1180 section of the V&T law, is punishable by a fine up to 200.00, 15 days in jail or both. If someone doesn't pay their 200.00 fine, and they received that fine INSTEAD OF JAIL TIME, why should we consider making them serve jail time as a "debtors prison"?
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Yes it should. There's no particular reason to privilege the debts of the state. In order of payment, sure, but in kind, no. We don't send people to prison for debt, and we shouldn't start. For one thing, it's self-defeating. How much does a day in jail cost? If somebody doesn't have the money to pay and you jail him, he's still not going to be able to pay, but now you've just imposed greater costs on the state. And prison, in addition to being costly, is a training ground for crime. So, take people who were not criminals, who were simply debtors, imprison them at great expense to the state, and train them in there to be criminals so that they can come out and start inflicting real damage. It's really quite insane.
People are fined, as an alternative to jail punishment. There are three kinds of punative judicial actions in V&T and criminal cases. Fines Incarceration Probation/parole When people are Fined, most often it's an alternative to incarceration. So, if a person doesn't pay their fine, how could society now look at it as a debt.. and we shouldn't incarcerate a debt? That's insane. Here's a little bit of legal trivia. The criminal and V&T procedure laws in all states allow the court to set incarceration amounts, as part of the plea agreements, if fines aren't paid or probations aren't successful. I honestly can't believe I have to defend this ideology. I feel I've slipped into the extreme liberal twilight zone.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Great. Imprison the poor. They didn't pay their $1000 fine,and so, as a matter of some "principle" a state careening towards bankruptcy will impose a $60,000 per year cost on itself just to "show" some poor guy that he has to obey the rules. That'll show them. I have debts. And if I were to lose my job and be unable to get another one, my debts would go unpaid. That might include a tax debt, or a parking ticket, or any other. You cannot get blood out of a stone. So, if I am a debtor without resources, go ahead and imprison me. Three hots and a cot. I won't be homeless, and I'll be imposing $60,000 per year costs on you. That'll teach me to be poor!
I don't think you're capable of understanding the difference between a financial PUNISHMENT... and a financial debt. So I'll leave you with this... In my 20 years, I've literally seen hundreds of defendants choose jail time to avoid fines, fees and probation. In your world, there would be no consequences for breaking any law... as soon as liberal society deems incarceration as mean and paying fines is cruel too. lol
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
If the person is working garnish his/her wages and any tax return money. Do the same if they are on any government assistance programs. Easy peasy.
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
Easy peasy. What if I told you that the majority of people that don't pay their traffic and criminal fines are on welfare, disability, unemployment, the Xbox... or living in moms basement, making a living of stealing stuff from retailers and burglarizing unoccupied businesses and pawning the proceeds at pawn shops... in between growing and selling weed illegally.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
But who is being PUNISHED. If I lose my job and can't find another one, and I have a financial punishment hanging over my head - a traffic fine - I can't pay it. It's not going to get paid. Who exactly are you punishing? You put me in a cage at a cost, to you, of $60,000 per year. I live in a warm place, with a bed, and have food and medical care. There's not much to do, but nobody is going to prevent me from sitting quietly and reading my Bible, which is my preferred "nothing to do activity". So, you've inflicted a $60,000 per year PUNISHMENT on YOURSELF because I don't have the money to pay your punishment. You've improved my standard of living. Thank you.
Who exactly are you punishing? True, you must support the cost of incarceration. But without some kind of punative action upon a law breaker... you'll have an anything goes society without consequences for their actions. Do you really think we can treat the millennium generation with this ideology... Don't worry about incarceration, that's cruel... Oh, don't worry about paying a fine either. Just... please don't break the law again. lol
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Do you really think we can treat the millennium generation with this ideology... Don't worry about incarceration, that's cruel... Well, I look at France. France has about 20% of our population. We have 2 million people in prison, so the French, proportionately, would be expected to have about 400,000. They actually only have about 38,000 people in jail - less than a tenth of the rate we have. If we had French incarceration policies, we would have less than 200,000 people in prison. So, the French obviously have a completely different view of incarceration than we do. They pay a whole lot less for prisons and police. It's true, people "get away" with more in France. They don't respect and fear the state the way Americans do. So, do the French have an "anything goes society without consequences"? No. They have a lower murder rate, a lower crime rate. Sure, there's still crime in France, but we imprison eleven times as many people, per capita, as the French do, and we have WORSE crime. We also spend a fortune to teach the lesson you're trying to teach. As a nation, we're going bankrupt, and with our huge lesson-teaching incarceration rate, we have worse crime than they do. In other words, the heavy-handed approach you advocate is a lot more expensive than a lighter hand, and it is counterproductive: the American crime rate is higher, and the cost of maintaining it is higher. It's like the war on alcohol with Prohibition. The state was defeated. The rule of law was defeated. All sorts of resources were poured into making people obey the law, making there be consequences for it. In the end we created organized crime, diminished the rule of law, broke the police force in many places. We charged to the attack and we lost. We're doing it again with the war on marijuana. I understand your frustration at the thought that people are told to do something, don't, and get away with it. The answer is to stop telling people to do so much, because when you're telling poor people they have to pay, you're commanding the impossible. Accept that there's nothing more you can do, shrug your shoulders and let them go on being miserable and poor. Imprison them, and now all you're doing is inflicting massive damage on YOURSELF. YOU are bearing huge costs in a vain effort to demonstrate that there are consequences for disobedience to a command that can't be obeyed. It's like an allergic reaction: the antibodies designed to protect you end up choking you to death. And in the final analysis, in comparison with France, it doesn't even work. Sometimes you just have to be practical and shrug your shoulders. Here's the truth: for most people with jobs and obligations, the hassle of having to face the judicial system over and over again over non-paid debts, the piling on the fees and garnishing of wages, is sufficient disincentive. Once you get to a certain level of poverty, though, fines can't be paid, and you can't collect them. So assign them community service instead. They have time, not money. Putting them in prison at massive cost to yourself sends a message: that the state is stubborn to the point of self-harm, and bone stupid.
We aren't France.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Helas.
Then it should be pretty easy to get the money for the fines, empathy be damned.
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
An emotion I no longer have after 20 years of LE.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
#2. To: Willie Green (#0)
The suits were filed in U.S. District Court in St. Louis on behalf of 15 plaintiffs — referred to as “impoverished people” — who were jailed because they could not pay fines for traffic violations and other minor offenses.
#3. To: GrandIsland (#2)
#4. To: Willie Green (#3)
Since when is a traffic ticket considered "criminal?"
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#5. To: Willie Green, Deckard (#3)
(Edited)
#6. To: GrandIsland (#5)
Regardless if it's criminal or V&T arrests, it's still shouldn't be equated to college loan or credit card debt.
#7. To: Vicomte13 (#6)
And prison, in addition to being costly, is a training ground for crime. So, take people who were not criminals, who were simply debtors, imprison them at great expense to the state, and train them in there to be criminals so that they can come out and start inflicting real damage.
#8. To: GrandIsland (#7)
#9. To: Vicomte13 (#8)
(Edited)
#10. To: GrandIsland (#7)
So, if a person doesn't pay their fine, how could society now look at it as a debt..
#11. To: CZ82 (#10)
(Edited)
If the person is working garnish his/her wages and any tax return money. Do the same if they are on any government assistance programs.
#12. To: GrandIsland (#9)
I don't think you're capable of understanding the difference between a financial PUNISHMENT... and a financial debt.
#13. To: Vicomte13 (#12)
ad - a traffic fine - I can't pay it. It's not going to get paid.
#14. To: GrandIsland (#13)
(Edited)
But without some kind of punative action upon a law breaker... you'll have an anything goes society without consequences for their actions.
#15. To: Vicomte13 (#14)
Well, I look at France. France has about 20% of our population. We have 2 million people in prison, so the French, proportionately, would be expected to have about 400,000. They actually only have about 38,000 people in jail
#16. To: GrandIsland (#15)
We aren't France.
#17. To: GrandIsland (#11)
What if I told you that the majority of people that don't pay their traffic and criminal fines are on welfare, disability, unemployment, the Xbox... or living in moms basement,
#18. To: CZ82 (#17)
empathy
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