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Title: Army rules Fort Hood shooting victims eligible for Purple Heart
Source:
Dallas Morning News
URL Source: http://www.dallasnews.com/news/loca ... -eligible-for-purple-heart.ece
Published: Feb 9, 2015
Author: Aubree Abril
Post Date: 2015-02-09 14:51:44 by redleghunter
Keywords: None
Views: 38622
Comments: 101
WASHINGTON — The Army announced Friday that it will award the Purple Heart to victims of the 2009 Fort Hood shooting, after years of resistance. Texas lawmakers welcomed news that the shooting spree, which left 13 people dead and more than 30 wounded, would no longer be classified as an act of “workplace violence,” given the shooter proclaimed himself a jihadi. “This has been a long, hard fight. The victims of this attack have struggled, suffered and been abandoned by this administration. No more,” said Rep. John Carter, the Round Rock Republican whose district includes Fort Hood, the nation’s largest military installation. “Today is a day of victory, and I am honored to have fought on their behalf.” The decision, Carter said, would “provide the victims their due benefits” and “finally give closure to the families.” Poster Comment: About time.
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#1. To: GarySpFc, liberator (#0)
Ping
"For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb." (Psalm 139:13)
Pete if you can ping the "Military/Vets" ping list, much appreciated. I am a ping list subscriber but could not ping the list. Thanks
"For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb." (Psalm 139:13)
Hasan, who was scheduled to deploy to Afghanistan a few weeks later, shouted “Allahu akbar!” meaning “God is great,” before targeting soldiers with a high-powered, high-capacity handgun he had fitted with laser sights. He was apprehended by military police officers after firing more than 200 shots. www.washingtonpost.com/wo...6-e4fc677d94a1_story.html Some firearms would be more useful, but a Purple Heart is better than nothing. Maybe next time the bullets will bounce off of their Purple Hearts?
It would be meaningful, except that American corrupt foreign policy plays a strong majority role which placed them in danger in the first place. They should get a "Corrupt American Foreign Policy Defense" metal. Call it CAFPoD for short.
They'll get more benefits this way which had been denied to them and their families because it was declared "workplace violence". So it makes a big difference to the survivors and families, I think.
This is PC BullBush! None of these people were wounded or killed in combat. They were murdered by a criminal committing a crime. If they want to create some sort of new ribbon/medal for non-combat troops to show they were injured or killed by a criminal act while in uniform,I am ok with that,but not with downgrading a PH to "I wuz a vic-tum!" award.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Sure thing. It was a "everybody that subscribed becomes a co-owner back when I owned it.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
I'm sure it does,but military members that are murdered by a traitor in their own unit shouldn't be getting a Purple Heart. Next thing you know they will be handing them out to clerks and cooks that get hurt in a car accident while driving to work at the base/
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
The more they give out... the less special they are.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Exactly! There were designed to honor the military members who willing go into battle and put their lives at risk that get wounded or killed. Now they want to give them out to everybody.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Redleghunter I made you the owner of the Military/Vets Ping list, you can go in and make it to where all subscribers/co-owners are able to use the list.
I agree with your position re watering down awards but the regulations were changed to authorize the Purple Heart, It would seem that being in combat is no longer required. However, it is difficult to see how this was an international terrorist attack against the United States. What other nation state attacked the United States? This was an muslim American citizen and member of the U.S. armed forces. www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/134833vol3.pdf Department of Defense Manual 1348.33, Volume 3, November 23, 2010, Incorporating Change 1, October 31, 2013 DoDM 1348.33-V3, November 23, 2010 Pages 22-24. Manual of Military Decorations and Awards: DoD-Wide Performance and Valor Awards; Foreign Awards; Military Awards to Foreign Personnel and U.S. Public Health Service Officers; and Miscellaneous Information b. Award Category. U.S. Military Personal Performance Award. c. Eligibility Requirements 2. In action with an opposing armed force of a foreign country in which the U.S. Armed Forces are or have been engaged. 3. While serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in an armed conflict against an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party. 4. As a result of an act of any such enemy or opposing armed forces. 5. As the result of an act of any hostile foreign force. 6. After March 28, 1973, as a result of an international terrorist attack against the United States or a foreign nation friendly to the United States, recognized as such an attack for purposes of award of the Purple Heart by the Secretary of the Military Department concerned, or jointly by the Secretaries of the Military Departments concerned if members from more than one Military Department are wounded in the attack. The Secretary of the Military Department concerned shall notify the USD(P&R) prior to awarding the Purple Heart for an international terrorist attack that occurs in the United States or its territories. 7. After March 28, 1973, as a result of military operations while serving outside the territory of the United States as part of a peacekeeping force. 8. A Service member who is killed or wounded in action as the result of action by friendly weapon fire while directly engaged in armed conflict, other than as a result of an act of an enemy of the United States, unless (in the case of a wound) the wound is the result of willful misconduct of the member (in accordance with section 1129 of Reference (f)). 9. Before April 25, 1962, while held as a prisoner of war (or while being taken captive) in the same manner as a former prisoner of war who is wounded on or after that date while held as a prisoner of war (in accordance with section 521 of Public Law (P.L.) 104-106 (Reference (q))). (b) A wound for which the award is made must have required treatment, not merely examination, by a medical officer. Additionally, treatment of the wound shall be documented in the Service member’s medical and/or health record. Award of the PH may be made for wounds treated by a medical professional other than a medical officer provided a medical officer includes a statement in the Service member’s medical record that the extent of the wounds were such that they would have required treatment by a medical officer if one had been available to treat them. (c) After December 7, 1941, to a Service member who is killed or dies while in captivity as a prisoner of war (POW) under circumstances establishing eligibility for the POW medal pursuant to section 1128 of Reference (f), and section 15, Enclosure 3, Volume 2 of this Manual, unless compelling evidence is presented that shows that the member’s death was not the result of enemy action. (d) The PH may be awarded posthumously and, when so directed, may be presented to such representatives of the deceased as the Secretary concerned considers appropriate. (2) Definitions. See Glossary. d. Foreign Military Personnel. The PH may not be awarded to foreign personnel. e. Procedures (2) The statutory time limits pertaining to award of military decorations does not apply to the PH. Award of the PH may be consummated at any time after submission of documented proof that criteria have been met. f. Approval Authority (2) Navy and Marine Corps. See Reference (j). (3) Air Force. See Reference (k). g. Order of Precedence. The PH is worn after the BSM and before the Defense Meritorious Service Medal (DMSM). Section 1127 of Reference (f) requires the Secretary concerned to accord the PH a position of precedence not lower than immediately following the BSM. h. Subsequent Awards (2) Subsequent awards are denoted by wearing the appropriate device on the suspension and service ribbon of the medal. i. Authorized Devices. Refer to the applicable Military Department regulation (References (i), (j), or (k)) for specific guidance on wear of authorized devices. Authorized devices are: (2) 5/16 Inch Star (gold and/or silver). j. Illustration and Description. Refer to Volume 1, Appendix 3 to Enclosure 3, to this Manual.
It wasn't their foreign policy. In fact most of the soldiers were in the medical profession. Some specialized in PTSD.
"For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb." (Psalm 139:13)
The PH was extended to service members wounded and killed at the Pentagon during the 9/11 attacks. Hasan had the same terrorist motivations. I understand your position but the Jihadists brought the war to our soil.
"For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb." (Psalm 139:13)
Now they want to give them out to everybody. Not really. These were soldiers doing their medical SRP prior to deployment. They were unarmed and shot by a self proclaimed Jihadist at war with the USA. Even REMFs in Vietnam got the PH for enemy indirect fire. We shouldn't confuse the PH with a valor award or the CIB for infantrymen. The Purple Heart is awarded to members of the armed forces of the U.S. who are wounded by an instrument of war in the hands of the enemy and posthumously to the next of kin in the name of those who are killed in action or die of wounds received in action. http://www.purpleheart.org/HistoryOrder.aspx You may want to save your energy for what happened in 2002. An Airmen was awarded a Bronze Star for service as a ground crew member at Whiteman AFB in MO. The BSM is reserved for designated combat zones. However it was argued the crew serviced the B2 squadron flying from MO to drop bombs in Afghanistan and later in 2003 in Iraq. Have to check what became of that.
"For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb." (Psalm 139:13)
Thanks and done. All who signed up should be able to ping now.
"For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb." (Psalm 139:13)
Thanks for the research! Could use a few of you at work:)
"For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb." (Psalm 139:13)
Edit: Duplicate post.
Wow not a biased source at all. Only 2LTs whine on "deserving" awards and worry about who gets what.
"For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb." (Psalm 139:13)
"Can some ribbon racks be over the top, or is more always better?" https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/can-some- ribbon- racks-be-over-the-top-or-is-more-always-better.
The Army puts unit awards/ribbons on the right chest. This reduces the "Mexican General" effect. Personal awards go over the left chest.
"For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb." (Psalm 139:13)
No "Mexican General" effect here... He was against the movie being made about him in 1941
They should if they were attacked by an enemy combatant, uniformed or not. If they are hit by a terrorist who is targeting them as military members, fine.
Prosecutors did not pursue “Terrorism” or “Act of Terror” because Courts-Martial under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) do not currently include such a charge. Nidal Hasan was not tried as an enemy combatant, but instead will be court-martialed. 1
Don't be silly. Hasan's crimes would have been better prosecuted under federal terrorism charges. Much of this is simply the Obola crew refusing to admit they have allowed terrorist attacks to happen on their watch. If they refuse to admit it is terrorism, there is no terrorism on their watch. And the Lefty historians will happily carry water for them.
Lets see Distinguished Flying Cross, Bronze Star, Meritorious Service Medal, Commendation Medal, NO Purple Hearts and a whole lot of I was flying AROUND ribbons and personal achievement ribbons.
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
The display of awards and decorations has come a long way for this:
My thoughts as well. But better for an Airmen like you to opine on it:)
"For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb." (Psalm 139:13)
These people were killed or injured by one of their own.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
I don't think so. He may have wore the uniform but embraced radical Islam and so a traitor.
"For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb." (Psalm 139:13)
I'm pretty much in agreement with what is written in that link,but would like to add that in some units like Special Forces it is actually harder to get valor awards than in conventional units. Some of this is based on the fact that SF units in combat generally don't have the required number of senior NCO or office witnesses to write up valor awards. Or at least not enough survive to write them. Related to the above is SF does a lot of covert action missions,and you damn sure can't get a valor award for your actions on a mission that "never happened". For example,Bob Howard got put in for a MoH on 3 separate occasions in a 12 month period,and only got the MoH for the 3rd one. The first two got kicked back to Distinguised Service Crosses. And even that one was written up as a lie in order to get it for him. It was written up as the Hatchet Force platoon he was with was in combat in support of a conventional unit in VN,and the truth is they were on a hilltop in Laos. Since we "weren't in Laos",there was no way in hell he or any other SOG member was going to get a MoH unless the action was disguised at being in support of another US unit in combat in VN that same day. There is also the jealousy factor. For "big medals" like Silver Stars and above,the award recommendations generally go through formal review by non-SF Generals,and the general feeling by them was/is that "SF gets too damn many medals!". They also hate SF because SF is seen by some people as being "better" than "regular soldiers",and regular soldiers resent that. This even happens within SF units,since personal clerks are attached to SF units,but are not SF qualified. There was a personnel clerk at 5th SFG Headquarters in the late 60's that admitted years later that he personally threw away hundreds of valor award recommendations instead of forwarding them to be signed because he knew he would never get one himself,and was jealous.In a normal unit where the troops aren't so spread out and the causality rate isn't so high,this would have been noticed,but the 5th had teams from one end of VN to the other,and from the sea to the Cambodian and Laotian border. If you count SOG teams,even into Laos,Cambodia,and North VN. Small teams of a dozen or less,and people are getting shot up and medivaced all the time,or just getting rotated out and replaced after serving their tours. You write somebody up today for an award,and 2 months later you are no longer in VN OR the 5th SFG to check on the status of the award,so you just assume it was processed and approved because if it had been kicked back for questions you would have heard about that. Even if you were both career SF soldiers you might go 2 or 3 years in other duty assignments without ever seeing each other. Not to mention the fact that senior Army brass hate SF because SF doesn't come under their commands,and they can't order any SF team that may be in their area to run recon missions for them,or steal the SF team members to make into line company platoon sgts. They have a "Big Army" state of mind and will always think that way. I am guessing that the USMC has the same problem with their valor awards since they have to ran past Navy officers who never see combat and never have a chance to win those awards themselves.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Maybe,but that doesn't mean that 0-2's and 0-3's don't get screwed in the process because they didn't play the army "political game" right. And let's be honest with this while we are at it. Who in the US Army or the USMC puts their asses further out on the line with less experience than a 0-1? They exist to lead platoons into combat,and they generally don't have any more experience than most of the men they are leading,and usually far less than their NCO's.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Please correct me if I am wrong,but aren't some unit awards also considered as personal awards,and can/should also be worn on the left if you were a member of that unit and participated in the action the award was given for?
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Maybe next time the bullets will bounce off of their Purple Hearts? HA! But...don't these Purple Heart automatically mean the ridiculous meme "workplace violence" no longer works? And also, doesn't it also make Major Nadal Hassan the enemy/traitor at a venue that must now be considered "died/wounded in action"? And WHY hasn't Hassan been hung/fried yet?
For that they ought get a medal so big that it must be towed in a traler ;-)
I just got one in the supermarket checkout along with my M&Ms.
THAT was important. Especially if giving them all a medal was the only way to do it... 0dingleberry and his cabal (including the media) are doing all they can to shield Islam from criticism, enable the Caliphate, and destroy America and the "Christian" West. The return to England of the Churcill bust by the Kenyan makes total sense now. Winston Churchill, "The River War: An Account of the Reconquest of Sudan", Churchill wrote on pages 248-250: "Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen: all know how to die. But the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytising faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science - the science against which it had vainly struggled - the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome."
Interesting...thanks.
The AR-670-1 during my service (since 1986) has all unit valor/service awards on the right chest under the regimental crest. If a Soldier serves in a unit at the time of awarding a unit citation award, then that Soldier can wear, on his right chest that award for the remainder of his/her career. Whenever a Soldier is assigned to a unit with a citation award he/she wears the unit award. Once they leave, they are not authorized to wear the award. Only the service ribbons, and valor/service/achievement awards the Soldier are awarded on orders go on the left chest along with qualification badges like the Airborne wings etc. Case in point. During the Gulf War my Brigade was TACON to the 2nd Marine Division in Kuwait. After the cease fire the USMC/USN awarded the unit the Navy Unit Commendation (NUC). The Marines put that ribbon on the left side with their personal awards and the Army guys put it on the right side. It was a unit award. After a few tours at other posts I stopped wearing the NUC. Too many COLs and CSMs kept asking me what award I was wearing and if I was authorized to wear it. It got kind of old carrying around a paper copy of the orders in my Class A jacket:)
"For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb." (Psalm 139:13)
There's a stragetic mind.
"For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb." (Psalm 139:13)
Because he was an officer? It seems that they're not too concerned about lowly grunts getting shot up, so they disarm them in the hopes of making the higher ranks safer. The truth is that disarmament makes everyone less safe. It seems that as rank goes up, common sense decreases.
A technical quibble. A war would require two state actors. A lone individual actor cannot create a state of war with a nation. Nor can a non-state actor such as al Qaeda. al Qaeda and the USA can engage in an armed conflict of a non-international character. Gary D. Solis, U.S. Military Academy, The Law of Armed Conflict: International Humanitarian Law in War, Cambridge University Press, 2010, at 21. Also, "There are no longer the statuses of 'quasi-combatant' or 'semi-civilian.'" Id. at 188. Also, "Recall that POW status arises only in common Article 2 international armed conflicts, and in such conflicts the 1949 Geneva Conventions apply in toto, along with the 1977 Additional Protocol I." Id. at 195. The Law of Armed Conflict (LOAC) and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) are applied to conflicts with not more than one state actor. http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/pdf/GC_1949-IV.pdf Commentary, IV Geneva Convention, Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, Geneva, International Committee of the Red Cross (1958), Jean S. Pictet, Ed., Doctor of Laws, Director for General Affairs of the International Committee of the Red Cross, at page 51, italics as in original: Application of the term enemy combatant is misleading at best. PROTOCOL ADDITIONAL TO THE GENEVA CONVENTIONS OF 12 AUGUST 1949, AND RELATING TO THE PROTECTION OF VICTIMS OF INTERNATIONAL ARMED CONFLICTS (PROTOCOL I), OF 8 JUNE 1977 Excerpt, page 260, italics as in original. COMBATANT AND PRISONER-OF-WAR STATUS Article 43 — Armed forces 1. The armed forces of a Party to a conflict consist of all organized armed forces, groups and units which are under a command responsible to that Party for the conduct of its subordinates, even if that Party is represented by a government or an authority not recognized by an adverse Party. Such armed forces shall be subject to an internal disciplinary system which, inter alia, shall enforce compliance with the rules of international law applicable in armed conflict. 2. Members of the armed forces of a Party to a conflict (other than medical personnel and chaplains covered by Article 33 of the Third Convention) are combatants, that is to say, they have the right to participate directly in hostilities. 3. Whenever a Party to a conflict incorporates a paramilitary or armed law enforcement agency into its armed forces it shall so notify the other Parties to the conflict. Excerpt, page 265, italics as in original. CIVILIANS AND CIVILIAN POPULATION Article 50 — Definition of civilians and civilian population 1. A civilian is any person who does not belong to one of the categories of persons referred to in Article 4 A 1), 2), 3) and 6) of the Third Convention and in Article 43 of this Protocol. In case of doubt whether a person is a civilian, that person shall be considered to be a civilian. 2. The civilian population comprises all persons who are civilians. 3. The presence within the civilian population of individuals who do not come within the definition of civilians does not deprive the population of its civilian character. Note the negative definition of civilians. Whoever is not a member of the armed forces of a party to a conflict as defined by Article 43, is a civilian, as defined by Article 50. Between the two articles, coverage is total to include all persons on the planet. Some of them, plus the rest of them, equals all of them. Note Article 43.2 says, "Members of the armed forces of a Party to a conflict (other than medical personnel and chaplains covered by Article 33 of the Third Convention) are combatants, that is to say, they have the right to participate directly in hostilities." Every combatant is an enemy combatant in the view of the other party. The question goes not to enemy but to combatant. Solis at 224-25. Basically, the terminology used by the U.S. government, in terms of international law, is legal gibberish. https://www.icrc.org/eng/resources/documents/misc/terrorism-ihl-210705.htm International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) 01-01-2011 FAQ Events in recent years have increased interest in the issue of how international humanitarian law is applied in today's context of violent confrontation. In a new paper, the ICRC provides answers to some of the most frequently asked questions about international humanitarian law and terrorism. 1. Is there legal significance to the term "global war on terror?" [...] When armed violence is used outside the context of an armed conflict in the legal sense or when a person suspected of terrorist activities is not detained in connection with any armed conflict, humanitarian law does not apply. Instead, domestic laws, as well as international criminal law and human rights govern. [...] 2. Who is a combatant? International humanitarian law permits members of the armed forces of a State party to an international armed conflict and associated militias who fulfil the requisite criteria to directly engage in hostilities. They are generally considered lawful, or privileged, combatants who may not be prosecuted for the taking part in hostilities as long as they respect international humanitarian law. Upon capture they are entitled to prisoner of war status. If civilians directly engage in hostilities, they are considered "unlawful" or "unprivileged" combatants or belligerents (the treaties of humanitarian law do not expressly contain these terms). They may be prosecuted under the domestic law of the detaining state for such action. Both lawful and unlawful combatants may be interned in wartime, may be interrogated and may be prosecuted for war crimes. Both are entitled to humane treatment in the hands of the enemy. 3. Who is an "enemy combatant?" In its generic sense, an "enemy combatant" is a person who, either lawfully or unlawfully, engages in hostilities for the opposing side in an international armed conflict. The term is currently used — by those who view the fight against terrorism as including a transnational armed conflict against certain terrorist groups — to denote persons believed to belong to, or believed to be associated with terrorist groups, regardless of the circumstances of their capture. As mentioned above, a member of the armed forces of a State engaged in an international armed conflict or of an associated militia that fulfils the requisite criteria is a combatant, and, as such, entitled to POW status upon capture by the enemy. In non-international armed conflict, combatant and prisoner of war status are not provided for, because States are not willing to grant members of armed opposition groups immunity from prosecution under domestic law for taking up arms. From an IHL perspective, the term "combatant" or "enemy combatant" has no legal meaning outside of armed conflict. To the extent that persons designated "enemy combatants" have been captured in international or non-international armed conflict, the provisions and protections of international humanitarian law remain applicable regardless of how such persons are called. Similarly, when individuals are captured outside of armed conflict their actions and protection are governed by domestic law and human rights law, regardless of how they are called. 4. Who is entitled to "prisoner of war" status? What is the consequence of failure to qualify for prisoner of war status? [...] 5. What are the ICRC's role and activities in relation to international humanitarian law? [...] 6. Does Protocol I Additional to the Geneva Conventions treat "terrorists" the same as it does soldiers? [...]
There's a job for you at the Pentagon:) There is enough in LOAC to restrict and their is enough to go the other way. That is why proportionality is key to the entire LOAC.
"For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb." (Psalm 139:13)
Because he was an officer? Worse...it's because he's a Muslim.
"For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb." (Psalm 139:13)
I would disagree. There is no need to bring in the need to prove terrorism when murder can provide a death penalty. If I were Hasan, I would rather face a federal civilian jury than a military court-martial panel. All members of the panel will be senior to the accused. The court-martial can return a verdict of guilty with a two-thirds majority. Unanimity is only needed only to mandate the death penalty. There are no hung juries in military practice. If the military does not get the job done, Hasan could be tried by the state. Trial for the same act once as a violation of federal law and once as a violation of state law does not violate double jeopardy. Legally, the federal and state governments are considered separate sovereigns. EDIT: Hasan was convicted of 13 counts of premeditated murder, 32 counts of attempted murder. He was sentenced to death (August, 2013). The death penalty automatically starts the appeals process. That's where the case is at.
Uhhh, no there isn't. I'm totally retired.
Which service branch?
"For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb." (Psalm 139:13)
I retired from the Navy over 30 years ago. Now I'm just retired.
Thank you for your service.
"For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb." (Psalm 139:13)
You too.
That was when Medals were given out for Valor not for just being IN or flying OVER the theatre, who knows how many miles behind the lines. Even when I was in and I retired 16 years ago if aircrew flew into a hazardous theatre (even if it was mega miles behind the lines) you got a Commendation Medal. (You made 10 trips you got 10 Commendation Medals). But.... if you were a passenger on one of those same flights you got......... (Wait for it, wait for it)...... NOTHING!!!!!!!!!! Woohooooo Hell I got shot at on 3 different TDYs by Muzzies and got nothing for it but the aircrew who dumped my ass off got medals for it, go figure. $5 says pete can relate to that. {chuckle} I looked at the new AF ribbons chart and there is so many new medals it isn't funny, and most of them are what you get for just showing up to work. One of them now is just for VOLUNTEERING!!!!!!!!! REALLY???????? (AND that CMSgt even has one of those). LOL. (I wonder if I could have gotten one of those for "being volunteered" to clean the schitter if I had stayed in longer)? :)
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
Are you telling me that the Air Force is now like kids sports? You know where they don't keep score and everyone gets a trophy?
I wasn't a "political animal wearing kneepads" or aircrew so my "rack" was much smaller. :)
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
Yup! And you probably also get a Certificate to hang on your "I LOVE ME" wall. :)
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
We probably have something in common with awards. I worked on a joint mission with the Corps TACP while in Iraq. I was surprised when called to the BIAP "Air Force House." The Corps ALO/EASOG commander pinned an AFAM on me.
"For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb." (Psalm 139:13)
Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
I know. I attended some sort of function at Bragg back in the 90's,and saw SF guys wearing whole rows of ribbons I couldn't recognize. Seemed like in the 80's and 90's the US military was giving out ribbons for everything. IIRC,I was told that some of the ribbons were for stuff like the annual field training exercises in Europe. I think they were called "Reforger" or some such crap. I was surprised you would get a actual medal and ribbon for being in a field exercise. I remember back in the 60's when there would be formal formations you would see guys show up wearing nothing but their CIB/CMB's and jump wings,and some of those guys had some pretty serious stuff they could have put on if they had wanted. One senior NCO was even wearing a Iron Cross at a IG formation in 64. Lots of the guys from the WW-2 and Korean War eras had multiple Silver Stars and Purple Hearts,but people mostly didn't trot that stuff out for display except for awards ceremonies and/or IG formations. My company commander on Okie had a MoH from the Korean War,and I didn't even know about it until a couple of years later. All he ever wore on his khaki dress uniforms was his multiple award CIB and his jump wings. This was Ola Mize,one of the finest men to have ever walked the earth. A quiet and soft-spoken man who was a true gentleman. Sadly,he died a year or two ago. BTW,I got the impression that these days it is pretty much mandatory to wear all your ribbons any time you are wearing your dress uniform. That used to be optional unless you were reporting in to a new command or going through a IG inspection.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Just serving in the Gulf War gave me three ribbons. 1. Southwest Asia service medal 2. Saudi Arabia defense ribbon 3. Kuwait liberation medal 2&3 were awarded by the host nations.
"For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb." (Psalm 139:13)
I think if I were in uniform and had one of those,I'd be in a hell of a lot of trouble if ordered to wear it. Some things are just so totally wrong they can't be tolerated.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Allies awarding medals to units and groups of Soldiers is nothing new.
"For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb." (Psalm 139:13)
I understand this. I have a couple of my own. I don't have any Saudi Arabia Defense Medals though,and if I were still in uniform and were given one,I think I MIGHT prefer a court-martial over wearing it. IMHO,it's something to be ashamed of,not proud about. It's one of the prime reasons I have such a burning hatred for the Bush Crime Family. The Sauds pimped them out and as a result American lives and health were lost defending our and the world's enemies.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
When I was in (79-99) and wearing fatigues you wore Name, Branch, Rank, Unit Patch, Command Patch and any badges you may have earned. Whenever you had to dress in blues you wore Name, Rank, US insignia, your "ribbon rack" and any badges you may have earned, from the looks of the CMSgt picture that hasn't changed.
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
You must mean combat patch. What if you earned more than one, like so many troops have in the past decade?
I was authorized to wear 4. You usually wear your most recent one. When the Army combat uniform (ACU) was updated in 2005 it had velcro patches. So you could interchange them if you wanted:)
"For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb." (Psalm 139:13)
You must mean combat patch. What if you earned more than one, like so many troops have in the past decade? Command patch designated if you were in something like Military Airlift Command (MAC), Strategic Air Command (SAC), Space Command so forth and so on. We didn't have a combat patch for our fatigues. But for blues you got a ribbon to designate you had been in some such place like Vietnam, Korea, Southwest Asia, WW2, or something like that. From what I've seen now they do have a ribbon for Combat called "Air Force Combat Action Military Ribbon".
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
When I was in the army in the 60's "ribbon racks" were only required for formal ceremonies and reporting in to a new unit. As you know,your ribbons tell everyone your career history at a glance. It was optional for traveling or casual wear like company formations. It was customary for people in fatigues to have all their badges like jump wings,CIB,etc,etc,etc sewn on,but not mandatory. I know this for a fact because I refused to pay to have jump wings and a CIB sewn on my fatigues and jackets after coming back from VN because I only had a little better than 6 months to go in the army,and I wasn't willing to spend the money. Nobody at Bragg was impressed with that stuff anyhow. You stood out if you didn't have any of it.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
I had three. In the case of multiples,it was customary to wear the one that YOU felt was most significant. I never did get used to seeing guys wearing a SF patch or 82nd Abn Div patch on each sleeve,though.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Good for them! I always felt sorry for the poor Air Commandoes that put so much on the line so often,and were almost like military redheaded stepchildren because almost nobody even knew they existed,and they looked just like regular AF desk jockey's most of the time. Not sure when they became authorized to wear a blue beret.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
This is a history of the Beret for "ALL" US Forces. http://www.alaska.net/~jcassidy/pdf_files/U.S.%20Armed%20Forces%20Beret% 20History.pdf
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
For doing what if you don't mind me asking?
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
It was an impact award. I was the MNC-I lead on coordinating Joint assets lethal/non-lethal for a 'pinned down' SF advisory team and the downed Apache aircraft which went to support them. The rest is need to know:) But there was some press of the event: BACKGROUND: Millenarians in Najaf hoped to kill Sistani et al. to prepare return of the Mahdi It was late January 2007. The Corps ALO (EASOG commander) appreciated my efforts for recommending retasking of CFACC assets to support what we called "The Mother of all TICs" (troops in contact). His JOC ALO team was a little green around the gills to stomp on who needed to be stomped on:). I also drafted a position paper later that Spring arguing the need for USN CSG air support for the surge. The requirement needed to come from the Army and needed GEN Petreaus' signature. After the memo was signed I traveled with the ALO and my COL boss to the CAOC to deliver the memo to the CFACC commander. At least the above was alluded to in the citation write up. As you know the AFAM is a service/achievement award. No heroism/valor involved. Just doing my job and he recognized me for it. After almost 12 years of my service joined at the hip with ALOs and JTACs, it was nice to have something to remember my brothers in Blue.
"For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb." (Psalm 139:13)
Yea but you being an officer I would have put you in for something with a little more teeth than an Achievement Medal.
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
I have a vague recollection of something that happened during the Grenada incursion/excursion when Reagan was president. Some of the US troops developed heat injuries during the action. They were eventually awarded purple hearts, if my memory is correct. Look it up.
Some of the US troops developed heat injuries during the action. They were eventually awarded purple hearts, if my memory is correct. Look it up. If any run for office as Dems, their Republican opponent will claim that those injuries were not deserving of purple hearts.
Not to worry. Most who get into politics on either side of the aisle don't serve in the military.
"It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." (Matthew 4:4)
They weren't and aren't.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Military service these days is for the poor and the suckers.
And one of the few occupations that offer retirement.
Very few poor. The services do recruit in poorer neighborhoods but also middle class. Hard to get a rich kid to enlist. Been like that since Sam Adams time. However, given the drawdown, the services can be more selective. As retired Army officer I am now a gray beard instuctor for units ready to deploy. Your comments are not accurate. The Army is getting some very good people of good character in these days. Again, do to them being selective. It is no longer 2004-2008 where a pulse got you in.
"It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." (Matthew 4:4)
That is going away too. The proposal is to offer 401Ks. This way it is portable if the soldier decides not to re-enlist. Suckers no:) In such a draw down of forces they can be more selective. We are getting good troops coming in.
"It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." (Matthew 4:4)
Some of the US troops developed heat injuries during the action. They were eventually awarded purple hearts, if my memory is correct. I think that heatstroke victim you recall may have been in Panama. But Grenada earned 10,000 awards. Paratrooper With Heat Stroke Gets Top Medal August 26, 1990|By DAVID H. HACKWORTH At a bedside ceremony in Texas, the Army chief of staff awarded the Purple Heart medal to hospitalized Pfc. Grant Gipe, a casualty in Operation Just Cause in Panama last December. Paratrooper Gipe was not wounded as he bravely jumped into a night sky crisscrossed with enemy shot and shell. He was not hit while storming an objective. Nor was he felled by a bullet or ripped open by a bayonet in hand-to-hand combat with a Panamanian defender. Rather, Gipe was knocked out of the fight by the blistering sun on the Rio Hato drop zone. The good medics tagged him as a "heat stroke" casualty and sent the 82d Airborne Division trooper to Brooke Army Hospital in San Antonio, where he was awarded the Purple Heart for "heat exhaustion" by Gen. Carl Vuono. Soldiers had trouble with that "old devil sun" for thousands of years before Kipling's "Gunga Din" became a barracks refrain. Countless warriors and many a victory have been lost to heat exhaustion as soldiers bellied up from too much sun, an empty canteen and slack discipline. But in days past, no one got a medal for heat exhaustion, and some heat-struck casualties were even shot by angry commanders who felt they had failed their duty. To award the Purple Heart medal for heat exhaustion is an insult to every living and dead Purple Heart holder. In conflicts past, a soldier had to bleed to get it. Its wearer had had a bullet, fragment or missile rip through his tender body dispatched by an enemy who wanted him permanently out of the way. American warriors considered it and the Medal of Honor the nation's last respected and still sacred military decorations, the only medals that had not been exploited by the glory hunters or diminished by the bureaucrats. Now the Purple Heart too has been corrupted: It has been awarded for a reason other than wounds received as a result of enemy action. My quarrel is not with Gipe, who made a dangerous low-level combat jump into the darkness and later valiantly assisted two other soldiers to the aid station. It's with the bureaucrats in uniform who since the war in Vietnam have been responsible for the debasement of a once-proud and meaningful Army awards and decoration system. The charade has left our soldier's chests so bedecked with fruit salad that the practice is lampooned by professional soldiers around the globe. With Vuono's action, the Army's long-battered, bruised and grossly inflated awards system has sunk to a new low. This took some doing. In Vietnam, literally millions of awards were mechanically churned out. Line colonels and generals routinely got award packages for simply doing their job - normally a Silver Star, Legion of Merit, Distinguished Flying Cross or Bronze Star. A 1st Cavalry Division general was awarded a Silver Star while on R & R. Gen. Alexander Haig won a Distinguished Flying Cross by identifying a Viet Cong unit while flying in his helicopter. Grenada was just as bad: 7,000 American invaders faced a few hundred militia men in a few days of sputtering combat - and almost 10,000 awards were issued. Yet despite these disgraceful examples, the Purple Heart medal stood proud. It was a direct descendant of America's oldest military decoration, the Badge for Military Merit, established by George Washington in 1782. It remained unblemished and untainted by inflation, corruption or manipulation because the rule was that blood had to flow, and combat medics - one of the noblest and bravest bands of warriors - had to sign off on these awards. They could not be bought or compromised. Until Gipe got his medal, the Purple Heart was the ultimate badge of courage and honor, a badge worn proudly by 731,000 living Americans - many of whom gathered recently at the annual meeting of the Military Order of the Purple Heart meeting in Novi, Mich. The medal also served to identify the fakers. A chest full of medals without the Purple Heart gave cause to wonder if the hero who looked like a cross between a Russian general and a Christmas tree had ever been on or near a killing field or was simply a supply ace sporting his having-been-there trophies. Now the sun in Panama and a sham in Texas have changed all that. Not only did Gipe become a casualty of the invasion of Panama, but so did the U.S. Army's award program. * David H. Hackworth is a retired Army colonel who earned eight Purple Hearts in Korea and Vietnam.
Wow have not seen Hack's name in some time. Loved his book About Face. I guess he passed on about 10 years now?
"It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." (Matthew 4:4)
You got that right. BTW Hackworth is one of 6 people who have 8 Purple Hearts.
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
Or if they did they were REMFs pretending to be more than what they actually were.
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
Clearly communist theorists like you are too evolved and too intellectually important to be getting involved in stuff best left for the lower classes,right?
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Like JFK,LBJ,and John Kerry. JFK's father tried to get a Medal of Honor for him for allowing his drifting PT boat to be ran down by a Japanese destroyer,Congressman and military staff officer LBJ put himself in for and got a Silver Star for being a passenger on a C-47 that was strafed by a Zero fighter plane before it was shot down by their escort,and we all know about Big Jaw John and his fake Silver Star and 3 PH's that he put himself in for during the VN war.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Hack may be one of 1 who had 10 Silver Stars.
Like Gore?
"It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." (Matthew 4:4)
I suspect your opinion is too general and was made "off the cuff." Bradley Manning: And also Nidal Hasan: Well, I guess you can say they were "suckers."
Too poor to afford college - which is why many join - for work training and college money via the GI Bill as well as to get a job after high school since very few jobs exist that can support someone right out of high school. Back when there were shop jobs in America you could be out of high school and earn a living wage.
Clearly communist theorists like you are too evolved and too intellectually important to be getting involved in stuff best left for the lower classes,right? I have no idea what your point is since I am not a commie.
The suckers are those that join out of some notion of patriotism. The examples of the two above are for people that were so bad at their job only the army offered employment opportunities - so I would add the incompetent to the suckers and the poor.
Oh! Those liars, cheats and thieves are brought up again. Contemporary, US expeditionary forces used in global wars are lead and followed into combat or support units by mercenaries; these folks are not about "patriotism" with rare exception.
I have to say, the majority of Americans are "too poor" to afford college. Sure a middle income household can flip the bill out of pocket for community college; can handle some with a student loan for an in state university. College is way over priced. The only reason you don't hear much about it is because liberal academia thinks they are worth the high salaries. You hardly ever hear that professors and university officers should take a pay cut or reduce their overall bottom line. If I did not have a scholarship to pay for college I would have enlisted for a few years as well. My scholarship covered some books and supplies but not all. Even with a part time job that money hardly covered those incidentals. That's another sham, all those over priced books. Glad to see most universities going to ebooks. You save a few bucks there.
"It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." (Matthew 4:4)
Back in the day some joined to kill commies. Now the commies are running the joint.
"It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." (Matthew 4:4)
Didn't he have a bodyguard for himself and his typewriter?
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
That guy is "colorful" to say the least. :) We could use more like him. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hackworth
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
Like Gore? So what would you Navy guys call someone like Gore? An "Admirals Mate" or "Someone with too much draft".
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
LOL who knows. I'm sure daddy kept tabs on him as did all the other "Senator's sons." {cue in Creedance Clear Water Revival tune, now...}
"For holy Scripture establishes a rule to our teaching, that we dare not “be wiser than we ought;” but be wise, as he himself says, “unto soberness, according as unto each God hath allotted the measure of faith." (Augustine of Hippo (354–430)
The Navy does not have a real rear echelon as it does not engage in a lot of land-based fighting. The main battery of the carriers is their aircraft. Smaller ships now have missiles. There is not a lot of ship to ship combat anymore. SEALs are like a separate Navy altogether. The same may be said for sub sailors and SeaBees. In the regular Navy on ships, there is no equivalent rear echelon to that of the Army. One might say the Navy is the rear echelon of the Marines. I suppose the rear echelon of the surface fleet is the aircraft carrier with a flag admiral aboard. It stays within a convoy of ships protecting it on the surface and subs protecting it below. Its aircraft protect the skies above. The destroyers (tin cans) are sort of the front line. Probably those regular Navy (excluding SEALs and such) who see the most land combat would strangely be the non-combatant Hospital Corpsman. They accompany the Marines who have no medical corps of their own. For land fighting, the Navy has a subsidiary called the Marines for that. They may view the Navy as their unmilitary taxi service. The Marines did not like to be told they were part of the Navy, but there is no Secretary of the Marines. Other than their official attachment, the Navy and Marines are just different worlds. The Marines called us squids and we called them grunts, jarheads or seafaring bellhops (referring the the dress pants with the red stripes). The Coasties and some Navy ship-based sailors were shallow water sailors, as opposed to blue water sailors. A submarine tender would be homeported overseas and sit there most of the time. If in the Med, it might not leave the Med for years. It stays tied up to the pier as it requires a stable environment to work on things like nuclear torpedoes, not that anyone acknowledges nuclear anything, anywhere in the neighborhood. There is a Navy distinction between ship-based and land-based sailors, or sand crabs (me). There are many Navy overseas shore locations which count as sea time for sea/shore rotation purposes. Some, with more support facilities, count as shore time. I knew one guy who did a 20 year career at one overseas base. He just went back and forth from the shore base to a sub tender tied up to the pier to alternate sea and shore duty. On ships, a sharp distinction is between the ships crew and a flag officer's staff, and air squadrons on carriers. The staff and squadrons are not part of the ship's crew. Also, derogatory terms are had for admin types such as Yeomen or Personnelmen who may be referred to as titless WAVES. And sub sailors call surface ships skimmers. For real military politics, try a NATO HQ. An O-5 might be a glorified butler for an admiral. I really didn't know much about Gore's service I had to check online to see what you were asking about. It seems he was a Harvard grad who chose to enlist and go the Nam as an enlisted man. It may have been to punch his ticket and help his father's political chances, but he could have entered as an officer if he chose. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Gore --- Of his time in the Army, Gore later stated, "I didn't do the most, or run the gravest danger. But I was proud to wear my country's uniform." He also later stated that his experience in Vietnam "didn't change my conclusions about the war being a terrible mistake, but it struck me that opponents to the war, including myself, really did not take into account the fact that there were an awful lot of South Vietnamese who desperately wanted to hang on to what they called freedom. However, he appears to have puffed up his five months in Vietnam as something more than journalist duty. I see his only military award being the National Defense Service Medal. That was given to people coming out of boot camp. We referred to the ribbon as the Geedunk Ribbon, indicating being first in line at the geedunk three days in a row. In my 20 years, I never got sent west of Chicago, but I have never claimed to have been in combat or been subjected to enemy fire. I guess I'd just call Gore a rich kid politician. In the Navy, he might have been a titless WAVE. There's no real REMF equivalent. His puffery seems relatively minor compared to some. The article below is critical of Gore's service claims. http://www.rightgrrl.com/carolyn/goreserve.html Did Al Gore Serve in Vietnam?
#2. To: sneakypete (#1)
#3. To: redleghunter (#0)
Hasan, an Army psychiatrist, was found guilty this month on 13 counts of premeditated murder and 32 counts of attempted premeditated murder after opening fire Nov. 5, 2009, at Fort Hood’s Soldier Readiness Processing Center, where troops were getting medical checkups before deploying to Afghanistan.
The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#4. To: redleghunter (#0)
#5. To: hondo68 (#3)
Some firearms would be more useful, but a Purple Heart is better than nothing.
#6. To: redleghunter (#0)
#7. To: redleghunter, *Military or Vets Affairs* (#2)
Pete if you can ping the "Military/Vets" ping list, much appreciated.
#8. To: TooConservative (#5)
So it makes a big difference to the survivors and families, I think.
#9. To: sneakypete (#8)
Next thing you know they will be handing them out to clerks and cooks that get hurt in a car accident while driving to work at the base
#10. To: GrandIsland (#9)
The more they give out... the less special they are.
#11. To: redleghunter, sneakypete, GarySpFc (#2)
#12. To: sneakypete, redleghunter, TooConservative, GrandIsland (#6)
This is PC BullBush! None of these people were wounded or killed in combat. They were murdered by a criminal committing a crime.
After March 28, 1973, as a result of an international terrorist attack against the United States or a foreign nation friendly to the United States, recognized as such an attack for purposes of award of the Purple Heart by the Secretary of the Military Department concerned, or jointly by the Secretaries of the Military Departments concerned if members from more than one Military Department are wounded in the attack. The Secretary of the Military Department concerned shall notify the USD(P&R) prior to awarding the Purple Heart for an international terrorist attack that occurs in the United States or its territories.
Change 1, 10/31/2013 5. PURPLE HEART (PH)
a. Introduction. The PH is governed by E.O. 11016 (Reference (p)), which authorized the Secretary of a Military Department to award the PH to any member of an armed force under the jurisdiction of that department who meets eligibility requirements. After May 17, 1998, award of the PH was limited to members of the Armed Forces by Section 1131 of Reference (f). The PH differs from other personal performance awards in that an individual is eligible for the decoration upon the awarding authority determining that the specified award criteria have been met.
(1) Eligibility Criteria
(a) In accordance with Reference (p) the PH is awarded to any member of the U.S. Armed Forces who, while serving under competent authority in any capacity with one of the U.S. Armed Forces, after April 5, 1917, has been wounded, killed, or who has died or may hereafter die of wounds received under any of the following circumstances:
1. In action against an enemy of the United States.
(1) Each Military Department shall prescribe appropriate regulations for administrative processing, awarding, and wearing of the PH medal, ribbon, and appurtenances.
(1) Army. See Reference (i).
(1) Individuals are only presented a PH upon initial award.
(1) Oak-Leaf Cluster (bronze and/or silver).
#13. To: Pinguinite (#4)
#14. To: sneakypete (#6)
#15. To: sneakypete (#10)
Exactly! There were designed to honor the military members who willing go into battle and put their lives at risk that get wounded or killed.
#16. To: Devil Anse, sneakypete, GarySpFc (#11)
#17. To: nolu chan (#12)
#18. To: sneakypete (#8)
(Edited)
#19. To: sneakypete (#8)
(Edited)
#20. To: Gatlin (#18)
How did I achieve least-decorated status in spite of being a West Point graduate, airborne, Ranger who volunteered for Vietnam? Easy. I did not suck up to my superiors.
#21. To: redleghunter, sneakypete (#20)
(Edited)
#22. To: Gatlin (#21)
#23. To: redleghunter (#22)
(Edited)
This reduces the "Mexican General" effect.
but needed the funds to start a Bible School. Admirable!!!
#24. To: sneakypete (#8)
I'm sure it does,but military members that are murdered by a traitor in their own unit shouldn't be getting a Purple Heart.
Next thing you know they will be handing them out to clerks and cooks that get hurt in a car accident while driving to work at the base/
#25. To: TooConservative (#24)
#26. To: Gatlin (#25)
Prosecutors did not pursue “Terrorism” or “Act of Terror” because Courts-Martial under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) do not currently include such a charge. Nidal Hasan was not tried as an enemy combatant, but instead will be court-martialed.
#27. To: Gatlin, redleghunter (#21)
#28. To: CZ82 (#27)
Through this:
To this:
#29. To: CZ82 (#27)
Lets see Distinguished Flying Cross, Bronze Star, Meritorious Service Medal, Commendation Medal, NO Purple Hearts and a whole lot of I was flying AROUND ribbons and personal achievement ribbons.
#30. To: redleghunter (#15)
Even REMFs in Vietnam got the PH for enemy indirect fire.
#31. To: sneakypete (#30)
These people were killed or injured by one of their own.
#32. To: Gatlin (#18)
Did U.S. military personnel really earn all their medals? .
#33. To: redleghunter (#20)
Only 2LTs whine on "deserving" awards and worry about who gets what.
#34. To: redleghunter (#22)
The Army puts unit awards/ribbons on the right chest. This reduces the "Mexican General" effect. Personal awards go over the left chest.
#35. To: hondo68, redleghunter, sneakypete (#3)
(Edited)
Some firearms would be more useful, but a Purple Heart is better than nothing.
#36. To: Pinguinite (#4)
American corrupt foreign policy plays a strong majority role which placed them in danger in the first place.
#37. To: sneakypete (#10)
Now they want to give them out to everybody.
#38. To: redleghunter (#0)
(Edited)
The decision, Carter said, would “provide the victims their due benefits” and “finally give closure to the families.”
#39. To: sneakypete (#32)
#40. To: sneakypete (#34)
Please correct me if I am wrong,but aren't some unit awards also considered as personal awards,and can/should also be worn on the left if you were a member of that unit and participated in the action the award was given for?
#41. To: Liberator (#38)
"Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen: all know how to die. But the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytising faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science - the science against which it had vainly struggled - the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome."
#42. To: Liberator (#35)
WHY hasn't Hassan been hung/fried yet?
The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#43. To: redleghunter, sneakypete, TooConservative (#15)
[redleghunter #15] These were soldiers doing their medical SRP prior to deployment. They were unarmed and shot by a self proclaimed Jihadist at war with the USA.
The "War on Terrorism" is not a war in the sense of Geneva Convention common Article 2, although that view would not be shared by the widow or husband of a soldier killed in Iraq or Afghanistan.
[TooConservative #24] They should if they were attacked by an enemy combatant, uniformed or not.
In short, all the particular cases we have just been considering confirm a general principle which is embodied in all four Geneva Conventions of 1949. Every person in enemy hands must have some status under international law: he is either a prisoner of war and, as such, covered by the Third Convention, a civilian covered by the Fourth Convention, or again, a member of the medical personnel of the armed forces who is covered by the First Convention. There is no intermediate status; nobody in enemy hands can be outside the law.
SECTION II
CHAPTER II
The terms "detainee," "enemy combatant," and "unlawful enemy combatant" do not appear in 1907 Hague Regulation IV, in any Geneva Convention, or in the 1977 Additional Protocols. There is no internationally agreed upon definition of any of the three terms, yet they are commonly used in the war on terrorism. Each suggests a variation on unlawful combatant status and, upon capture, each may determine the treatment of an individual so labeled.
The relevance of IHL in the context of terrorism
#44. To: nolu chan (#43)
#45. To: hondo68, liberator (#42)
WHY hasn't Hassan been hung/fried yet?
#46. To: TooConservative (#26)
(Edited)
[TooConservative #26] Hasan's crimes would have been better prosecuted under federal terrorism charges.
#47. To: redleghunter (#44)
There's a job for you at the Pentagon:)
#48. To: nolu chan (#47)
Uhhh, no there isn't. I'm totally retired.
#49. To: redleghunter (#48)
Which service branch?
#50. To: nolu chan (#49)
#51. To: redleghunter (#50)
Thank you for your service.
#52. To: Gatlin, redleghunter, sneakypete (#28)
#53. To: CZ82 (#52)
#54. To: redleghunter (#29)
#55. To: A K A Stone (#53)
#56. To: CZ82 (#52)
#57. To: redleghunter (#40)
If a Soldier serves in a unit at the time of awarding a unit citation award, then that Soldier can wear, on his right chest that award for the remainder of his/her career.
#58. To: CZ82 (#52)
(Edited)
I looked at the new AF ribbons chart and there is so many new medals it isn't funny, and most of them are what you get for just showing up to work.
#59. To: sneakypete (#58)
Seemed like in the 80's and 90's the US military was giving out ribbons for everything.
#60. To: redleghunter (#59)
2. Saudi Arabia defense ribbon
#61. To: sneakypete (#60)
#62. To: redleghunter (#61)
Allies awarding medals to units and groups of Soldiers is nothing new.
#63. To: sneakypete (#58)
BTW,I got the impression that these days it is pretty much mandatory to wear all your ribbons any time you are wearing your dress uniform.
#64. To: CZ82 (#63)
Command Patch
#65. To: Fred Mertz, CZ82 (#64)
You must mean combat patch. What if you earned more than one, like so many troops have in the past decade?
#66. To: Fred Mertz (#64)
Command Patch
#67. To: CZ82 (#63)
Whenever you had to dress in blues you wore Name, Rank, US insignia, your "ribbon rack" and any badges you may have earned, from the looks of the CMSgt picture that hasn't changed.
#68. To: Fred Mertz (#64)
(Edited)
You must mean combat patch. What if you earned more than one, like so many troops have in the past decade?
#69. To: CZ82 (#66)
From what I've seen now they do have a ribbon for Combat called "Air Force Combat Action Military Ribbon".
#70. To: sneakypete (#69)
Not sure when they became authorized to wear a blue beret.
#71. To: redleghunter (#56)
The Corps ALO/EASOG commander pinned an AFAM on me.
#72. To: CZ82, GarySpFc (#71)
For doing what if you don't mind me asking?
#73. To: redleghunter (#72)
#74. To: redleghunter, CZ82, sneakypete (#72)
#75. To: Fred Mertz, redleghunter, CZ82, sneakypete (#74)
I have a vague recollection of something that happened during the Grenada incursion/excursion when Reagan was president.
#76. To: Pericles (#75)
If any run for office as Dems, their Republican opponent will claim that those injuries were not deserving of purple hearts.
#77. To: Pericles (#75)
If any run for office as Dems, their Republican opponent will claim that those injuries were not deserving of purple hearts.
#78. To: sneakypete (#77)
#79. To: Pericles (#78)
Military service these days is for the poor and the suckers.
#80. To: Pericles (#78)
Military service these days is for the poor and the suckers.
#81. To: A K A Stone, GarySpFc (#79)
And one of the few occupations that offer retirement.
#82. To: Fred Mertz, redleghunter, CZ82, sneakypete (#74)
I have a vague recollection of something that happened during the Grenada incursion/excursion when Reagan was president.
Recent Award Insults Purple Heart Holders
#83. To: nolu chan (#82)
#84. To: nolu chan (#82)
It's with the bureaucrats in uniform who since the war in Vietnam have been responsible for the debasement of a once-proud and meaningful Army awards and decoration system. The charade has left our soldier's chests so bedecked with fruit salad that the practice is lampooned by professional soldiers around the globe. With Vuono's action, the Army's long-battered, bruised and grossly inflated awards system has sunk to a new low.
#85. To: redleghunter, sneakypete (#76)
Not to worry. Most who get into politics on either side of the aisle don't serve in the military.
#86. To: Pericles (#78)
Military service these days is for the poor and the suckers.
#87. To: CZ82 (#85)
Or if they did they were REMFs pretending to be more than what they actually were.
#88. To: CZ82 (#84)
BTW Hackworth is one of 6 people who have 8 Purple Hearts.
#89. To: CZ82 (#85)
Or if they did they were REMFs
#90. To: Pericles (#78)
Military service these days is for the poor and the suckers.
#91. To: redleghunter (#80)
Very few poor. The services do recruit in poorer neighborhoods but also middle class. Hard to get a rich kid to enlist. Been like that since Sam Adams time.
#92. To: sneakypete (#86)
Military service these days is for the poor and the suckers.
#93. To: Pridie.Nones (#90)
Well, I guess you can say they were "suckers."
#94. To: Pericles (#93)
The suckers are those that join out of some notion of patriotism.
#95. To: Pericles (#91)
Too poor to afford college - which is why many join - for work training and college money via the GI Bill as well as to get a job after high school since very few jobs exist that can support someone right out of high school. Back when there were shop jobs in America you could be out of high school and earn a living wage.
#96. To: Pridie.Nones (#94)
(Edited)
#97. To: redleghunter (#89)
#98. To: nolu chan (#88)
Hack may be one of 1 who had 10 Silver Stars.
#99. To: nolu chan, redleghunter (#89)
(Edited)
Or if they did they were REMFs
#100. To: CZ82 (#97)
#101. To: CZ82, redleghunter (#99)
So what would you Navy guys call someone like Gore?
Gore has said that his other reason for enlisting was that he did not want someone with fewer options than he to go in his place. Actor Tommy Lee Jones, a former college housemate, recalled Gore saying that "if he found a fancy way of not going, someone else would have to go in his place." His Harvard advisor, Richard Neustadt, also stated that Gore decided, "that he would have to go as an enlisted man because, he said, 'In Tennessee, that's what most people have to do.'"
By Carolyn Gargaro
Rightgrrl Co-Founder
August 10, 1999
Updated October 9, 2000
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