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Source: ChristianPatriot.com URL Source: [None] Published: Feb 7, 2015 Author: Pastor Bob Celeste for ACP Post Date: 2015-02-07 16:29:11 by BobCeleste Keywords: None Views: 56365 Comments: 95 What does God command regarding the baby about to be aborted? Does God command us to stand around and do nothing or does He command us to rescue the baby by what ever means we need to use? You decide: Deliver those who are drawn toward death, And hold back those stumbling to the slaughter. If you say, "Surely we did not know this," Does not He who weighs the hearts consider it? He who keeps your soul, does He not know it? And will He not render to each man according to his deeds? Proverbs 24:11&12. Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 32. #8. To: BobCeleste, Stoner, redleghunter, Vicomte13, kenh, wmfights (#0) BobCeleste Abortion is not mentioned in the Old or New Testament so he does not command anything for us to do. And vengeance will be for the Lord. Pericles  posted on  2015-02-08   19:37:51 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #9. To: Pericles (#8) Abortion isn't mentioned as such, but it doesn't need to be. From Genesis forward, lives in Scripture are dated from conception. Read carefully: Adam begot Cain. Not "Eve gave birth to Cain". Lives are measured from the FATHER'S begetting. That only occurs as the result of intercourse at the beginning of the pregnancy. The FATHER begets when his seed joins with the woman's seed to create a new person. As Scripture progresses, we come to the commandment in the Torah that if men fight and strike a pregnant woman such that they cause the baby to suddenly be born, if there's no harm the one who struck has to pay the husband for striking his wife, but if there IS harm, then life for life, etc. Note well, the distinction is not simply about the mother being struck, the subject is the baby being born prematurely. If two men fighting and one strikes a pregnant woman in his rage (remember, SHE'S not fighting, he is fighting another man) if the baby is born prematurely and dies, the man who struck her is to be put to death. Likewise if she dies in childbirth. Inducing a premature birth is not what we would call "abortion", but it carries the death penalty in the Torah if the baby is killed, and it carries wound for wound body damage if the baby is crippled. And then we have several moments in the Old Testament in which God speaks of knowing the man in the womb. And of course, Jesus comes to be when he is begotten by the Holy Spirit, not when he is born. One baby in his mother's womb leapt with joy at the presence of Jesus in his mother's womb. Babies in the womb are PEOPLE in the Scripture, And that means that there's no SPECIAL law for them, Kill a baby in the womb, and you have committed a murder, no different than if you lie in wait and stab a man. Abortion isn't separately mentioned because it's just murder, same as any other murder. Murder is extensively mentioned in Scripture, and Jesus said that murderers are thrown into the lake of fire at judgment. Abortion is murder, tout court. Nothing more to say. So much so, that the Bible doesn't elaborate. Doesn't NEED to. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-02-08   20:03:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #10. To: Vicomte13 (#9) Abortion isn't mentioned as such, but it doesn't need to be. Then how can Protestants be against it, Sola Scriptura and all that? Pericles  posted on  2015-02-08   20:05:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #17. To: Pericles, Vicomte13, GarySpFc, liberator (#10) Then how can Protestants be against it, Sola Scriptura and all that? Read Vic's post again. He, uncharacteristically, succinctly just told you why. Life begins at begetting that is conception throughout the OT. Terminating, murdering defenseless life was also forbidden throughout scriptures. No shedding of blood. That is murder. It's there. Read his post again. He wasn't speaking Greek. redleghunter  posted on  2015-02-08   22:14:42 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #23. To: redleghunter, Vicomte13, GarySpFc, liberator (#17) (Edited) The Old Testament says nothing of t he kind. the only place I know from the ancient world where abortion was expressly prohibited was the pagan Greek Hippocratic Oath. Abortion was probably not mentioned in the Old Testament because the Hebrews were primitive goat herders who had no ability to induce medical abortions so it never occurred to them is best I can gather. This is the original version of the Hippocratic Oath: HIPPOCRATIC OATH: CLASSICAL VERSION I swear by Apollo Physician and Asclepius and Hygieia and Panaceia and all the gods and goddesses, making them my witnesses, that I will fulfill according to my ability and judgment this oath and this covenant: To hold him who has taught me this art as equal to my parents and to live my life in partnership with him, and if he is in need of money to give him a share of mine, and to regard his offspring as equal to my brothers in male lineage and to teach them this art—if they desire to learn it—without fee and covenant; to give a share of precepts and oral instruction and all the other learning to my sons and to the sons of him who has instructed me and to pupils who have signed the covenant and have taken an oath according to the medical law, but no one else. I will apply dietetic measures for the benefit of the sick according to my ability and judgment; I will keep them from harm and injustice. I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody who asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect. Similarly I will not give to a woman an abortive remedy. In purity and holiness I will guard my life and my art. I will not use the knife, not even on sufferers from stone, but will withdraw in favor of such men as are engaged in this work. Whatever houses I may visit, I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice, of all mischief and in particular of sexual relations with both female and male persons, be they free or slaves. What I may see or hear in the course of the treatment or even outside of the treatment in regard to the life of men, which on no account one must spread abroad, I will keep to myself, holding such things shameful to be spoken about. If I fulfill this oath and do not violate it, may it be granted to me to enjoy life and art, being honored with fame among all men for all time to come; if I transgress it and swear falsely, may the opposite of all this be my lot. —Translation from the Greek by Ludwig Edelstein. From The Hippocratic Oath: Text, Translation, and Interpretation, by Ludwig Edelstein. Baltimore: Johns Hopkins Press, 1943. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/hippocratic-oath- today.html Pericles  posted on  2015-02-09   0:42:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #32. To: Pericles, Vicomte13, GarySpFc (#23) Abortion was probably not mentioned in the Old Testament because the Hebrews were primitive goat herders who had no ability to induce medical abortions so it never occurred to them is best I can gather. You missed the points the other gentlemen pinged already provided. The TaNaKh clearly shows that life begins at begetting. The biblical genealogies describe a father's begets as the start of life for the offspring. Exodus references given by Vic and Gary showed us the unborn child if killed in a struggle required the same blood for blood punishment...execution. redleghunter  posted on  2015-02-09   9:04:22 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   Replies to Comment # 32. #34. To: redleghunter, Vicomte13, GarySpFc (#32) Exodus references given by Vic and Gary showed us the unborn child if killed in a struggle required the same blood for blood punishment...execution. No, it required a fine only and under specific circumstances would that fine apply - the woman somehow got in the middle of the fight. Pericles  posted on  2015-02-09 09:26:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   End Trace Mode for Comment # 32. Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

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