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Title: Obama Rips Bible, Praises Koran
Source:
Breitbart
URL Source: http://www.breitbart.com/national-s ... bama-rips-bible-praises-koran/
Published: Feb 7, 2015
Author: Ben Shapiro
Post Date: 2015-02-07 06:32:22 by cranky
Keywords: None
Views: 193037
Comments: 433
Unless we get on our high horse and think that this is unique to some other place, remember that during the Crusades and Inquisition, people committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ. In our home country, slavery and Jim Crow all too often was justified in the name of Christ. So it is not unique to one group or one religion. There is a tendency in us, a simple tendency that can pervert and distort our faith. This is historically and philosophically illiterate. Historically speaking, the Crusades were a response to Islamic aggression in Europe and the Middle East; the Inquisition, as Jonah Goldberg points out while quoting historian Thomas Madden, director of the Center for Medieval and Renaissance Studies at Saint Louis University, was designed to regularize executions rather than leaving them to the will of the masses. Christians undoubtedly pursued horrible brutalities against people, including innocent Jews. However, as Goldberg points out, “Christianity, even in its most terrible days, even under the most corrupt popes, even during the most unjustifiable wars, was indisputably a force for the improvement of man.” Nowhere is that clearer than in Obama’s second example, slavery. Virtually all of the most ardent abolitionists were deeply religious Christians. Hundreds of thousands of American men marched to their deaths singing “The Battle Hymn of the Republic”: “In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea / With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me / As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free / While God is marching on.” That was 150 years ago. It’s not exactly the modern Islamic slogan, “Death to the Jews.” Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr., was, as his name suggests, a reverend. He quoted old black Christian spirituals and the Biblical story of the exodus from Egypt. Christians obliterated slavery. Christians obliterated Jim Crow. Modern slavery is largely perpetrated by Muslims. Modern Jim Crow is certainly perpetrated by Muslims under shariah law. There is a larger point, here, too: President Obama’s foolish argument suggests that because Christians were brutal a millennium ago, they should shut up about brutalities today. This is somewhat like saying that because someone’s great-great-grandfather held slaves in rural Alabama, that person should shut up about human trafficking in 2015. It’s asinine. But Obama has a history of insulting Christianity and Judaism while upholding Islam. In 2006, Obama bashed the Bible and religious Christians and Jews in particular: Which passages of Scripture should guide our public policy? Should we go with Leviticus, which suggests slavery is ok and that eating shellfish is abomination? How about Deuteronomy, which suggests stoning your child if he strays from the faith? Or should we just stick to the Sermon on the Mount – a passage that is so radical that it’s doubtful that our own Defense Department would survive its application? So before we get carried away, let’s read our bibles. Folks haven’t been reading their bibles. He then concluded that religious leaders should not speak out against publicly-funded contraception or gay marriage. We can get into President Obama’s pathetic Biblical commentary here – his interpretation of Leviticus on slavery is incorrect, Jews still avoid shellfish, the Talmud explains that no child has ever been stoned for rebelliousness, and the Sermon on the Mount is not a pacifist document. Obama’s not Biblically literate – he’s the same fellow who says, “I think the good book says don’t throw stones in glass houses.” He said in The Audacity of Hope that he would define Biblical values however he chose, stating that he is not willing “to accept a reading of the Bible that considers an obscure line in Romans to be more defining of Christianity than the Sermon on the Mount.” Both are, in fact, parts of the Bible. Citing the Sermon on the Mount to justify civil unions for homosexuals, as Obama has done, is not in fact Biblical. But more importantly, Obama’s scorn for the old-fashioned Bible is obvious. That became more obvious in 2008, when Obama told some of his buddies in San Francisco that unemployed idiots “cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.” The Obama administration has routinely attacked religious organizations and people who violate Obama’s personal political predilections. They’ve attacked all trappings of Christianity as well. Whether they’re using Obamacare to force religious individuals to pay for others’ contraception or toning down the National Day of Prayer instead of holding a public ceremony, whether they’re covering a monogram of Jesus at Georgetown University during a presidential speech or objecting to adding FDR’s D-Day prayer to the WWII memorial, the Obama administration clearly isn’t fond of Christianity. This contrasts strongly with President Obama’s romantic vision of Islam. He famously called the Muslim call to prayer “the sweetest sound I know.” He said in his first presidential interview, with Al-Arabiya, that his job was “to communicate to the American people that the Muslim world is filled with extraordinary people who simply want to live their lives and see their children live better lives.” Weeks later, he said in Turkey, “We will convey our deep appreciation for the Islamic faith, which has done so much over the centuries to shape the world — including in my own country.” A few months later, in a speech in Cairo to which he invited the Muslim Brotherhood, Obama said: I have known Islam on three continents before coming to the region where it was first revealed. That experience guides my conviction that partnership between America and Islam must be based on what Islam is, not what it isn’t. And I consider it part of my responsibility as President of the United States to fight against negative stereotypes of Islam wherever they appear. He added that Islam has a “proud tradition of tolerance,” explained, ‘Islam is not part of the problem in combating violent extremism – it is an important part of promoting peace,” and said, “America and Islam are not exclusive and need not be in competition. Instead, they overlap, and share common principles of justice and progress, tolerance and the dignity of all human beings.” He said in his Ramadan message in 2009 that Islam has played a key “role in advancing justice, progress, tolerance, and the dignity of all human beings.” ISIS, Obama has said over and over again, is not Islamic. His administration maintains that America is not at war with radical Islam. He stated before the United Nations in 2012, just weeks after the murder of four Americans in Benghazi, Libya at the hands of Muslim terrorists, “The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam.” Hillary Clinton allegedly promised Charles Woods, father of one of the slain in Benghazi, that the administration would achieve the arrest of the YouTube filmmaker behind The Innocence of Muslims. The State Department issued taxpayer-funded commercials denouncing that YouTube video. President Obama variously called the video “crude and disgusting” and stated that “its message must be rejected by all who respect our common humanity.” At the UN in 2014, Obama lauded a Muslim cleric who backs Hamas. And, of course, Obama uses Islamic theology to promote his vision of world peace: All of us have a responsibility to work for the day when the mothers of Israelis and Palestinians can see their children grow up without fear; when the Holy Land of the three great faiths is the place of peace that God intended it to be; when Jerusalem is a secure and lasting home for Jews and Christians and Muslims, and a place for all of the children of Abraham to mingle peacefully together as in the story of Isra, when Moses, Jesus, and Mohammed, peace be upon them, joined in prayer. All three religions do have access to holy sites now, in Jewish-run Jerusalem. They did not when Muslims ruled Jerusalem. But facts have no bearing in the fantasy world of the president. Perhaps one final contrast tells the tale. In 2012, according to the Washington Post. “U.S. troops tried to burn about 500 copies of the Koran as part of a badly bungled security sweep at an Afghan prison in February.” Two American soldiers were shot in the aftermath. This prompted President Obama to apologize profusely to Afghan President Hamid Karzai, writing him a letter stating, “We will take the appropriate steps to avoid any recurrence, including holding accountable those responsible.” Three years earlier, members of the military burned Bibles printed in Pashto and Dari. CNN reported that they had been discarded “amid concern they would be used to try to convert Afghans.” The Bibles were burned rather than sent back to their source organization because the military worried they might be re-sent to another outlet in Afghanistan. There was no apology to the church that printed the Bibles, or to Christians more broadly. Sure, radical Muslims around the world, supported by millions of their compatriots and friendly governments, are murdering innocents. But it’s Christian aggression that forces Muslims to burn other Muslims alive in Muslim countries.
On Thursday, at the National Prayer Breakfast in Washington, D.C., President Obama blithely informed his audience that Christians ought not get on their “high horse” about the problem of radical Islam:
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#285. To: Pridie.Nones, Pericles (#280)
"The Hand of providence has been so conspicuous in all this, that he must be worse than an infidel that lacks faith, and more than wicked, that has not gratitude enough to acknowledge his obligations." George Washington's letter of August 20, 1778 to Brig. General Thomas Nelson "Almighty and eternal Lord God, the great Creator of heaven and earth, and the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ; look down from heaven in pity and compassion upon me Thy servant, who humbly prorate myself before Thee." George Washington's prayer at Valley Forge "No people can be bound to acknowledge and adore the invisible hand which conducts the affairs of men more than the people of the United States. Every step by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency...We ought to be no less persuaded that the propitious smiles of heaven cannot be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right, which heaven itself has ordained." -- George Washington in his Inaugural Address, April 30, 1789 "Such being the impressions under which I have, in obedience to the public summons, repaired to the present station, it would be peculiarly improper to omit in this first official act, my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being, who rules over the universe, who presides in the council of nations, and whose providential aids can supply every human defect, that His benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the people of the United States.." "...Every step by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation, seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency" From President George Washington's Inaugural Address, April 30th, 1789, addressed to both Houses of Congress. "Let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religion."--George Washington, ca. 1789, Maxims of Washington, ed. John F. Schroeder (Mt. Vernon: Mt. Vernon Ladies Association, 1942), p. 106. "And now, Almighty Father, if it is Thy holy will that we shall we shall obtain a place and name among the nations of the Earth...:grant that we may be enabled to show our gratitude for Thy goodness by endeavors to fear and obey Thee." George Washington
“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org
"The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: 'It connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity." President Adams, July 4, 1821 "The general principles, on which the Fathers achieved independence, were . . . the general principles of Christianity." John Adams, in a letter to Thomas Jefferson, June 28, 1813, The Adams-Jefferson Letters,ed. Lester J. Cappon (Chapel Hill, NC: University of North Carolina Press, 1959), vol 2, pp. 339-40. "We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams from his Oct. 13, 1789 address to the military.
“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org
"God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever; That a revolution of the wheel of fortune, a change of situation, is among possible events; that it may become probable by Supernatural influence! The Almighty has no attribute which can take side with us in that event." President Thomas Jefferson --Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, p. 237.
“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org
""I ask again, what Muslim agenda has Obama enacted in the USA?" The same agenda he has to destroy the white U.S. middle class. So its just KKK like demagoguery? No,it is an actual fact. Basically,thanks to blacks being placed in the Dim Plantation after 1964 there are virtually no middle-class blacks left in this country that don't have AA jobs in government or corporations with government ties,so that leaves the whites. Which includes Jews as well as some His and Her Panics. How is this any different than Bush allowing Saudis to be the only flights allowed to leave the USA after 9/11? It's not. This is one reason why I call Obomber Bush 4.0. America has been Islam's bitch since that retard Reagan armed jihadis in Afghanistan. > Proving once again that you are educated beyond your ability to comprehend. We have been Islams servants ever since Rockefeller and Kennedy got involved in the oil business. Poppy Bush and Boy Jorge Bush are just two more US functionaries in the long line of Muslim employees.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
At the Constitutional Convention of 1787, James Madison proposed the plan to divide the central government into three branches. He discovered this model of government from the Perfect Governor, as he read Isaiah 33:22; “For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us.” [Baron Charles Montesquieu, wrote in 1748; “Nor is there liberty if the power of judging is not separated from legislative power and from executive power. If it [the power of judging] were joined to legislative power, the power over life and liberty of the citizens would be arbitrary, for the judge would be the legislature if it were joined to the executive power, the judge could have the force of an oppressor. All would be lost if the same … body of principal men … exercised these three powers." Madison claimed Isaiah 33:22 as the source of division of power in government See also: pp.241-242 in Teaching and Learning America’s Christian History: The Principle approach by Rosalie Slater] "Before any man can be considered as a member of civil society, he must be considered as a subject of the Governor of the Universe. And to the same Divine Author of every good and perfect gift [James 1:17] we are indebted for all those privileges and advantages, religious as well as civil, which are so richly enjoyed in this favored land." James Madison "Cursed be all that learning that is contrary to the cross of Christ." James Madison - America's Providential History p. 93.
“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org
A "verb" based on a belief. Thank you for clarifying the detail that I have been suggesting all along this thread.
I have no idea who Joseph Kony is or why you care or pay attention to what Rush Limbaugh says. Remind me again,what elective or cabinet office he holds in government.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
"When we view the blessings with which our country has been favored, those which we now enjoy, and the means which we possess of handing them down unimpaired to our latest posterity, our attention is irresistibly drawn to the source from whence they flow. Let us then, unite in offering our most grateful acknowledgments for these blessings to the Divine Author of All Good." --Monroe made this statement in his 2nd Annual Message to Congress, November 16, 1818. "The liberty, prosperity, and the happiness of our country will always be the object of my most fervent prayers to the Supreme Author of All Good." March 5, 1821 in his Second Inaugural Address
“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org
"The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were.... the general principles of Christianity. President John Quincy Adams "My custom is to read four or five chapters of the Bible every morning immediately after rising... It seems to me the most suitable manner of beginning the day... It is an invaluable and inexhaustible mine of knowledge and virtue." President John Quincy Adams "The highest glory of the American Revolution was this; it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity." - John Quincy Adams, July 4, 1821
“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org
The majority of the founders were not deists. That's a leftist lie.
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. " (Romans 1:16-17)
"We shall not fight alone. God presides over the destinies of nations, and will raise up friends for us. The battle is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave . . . Is life so dear, or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" Patrick Henry, in a speech March 23, 1775. "Whether this [new government] will prove a blessing or a curse will depend upon the use our people make of the blessings which a gracious God hath bestowed on us. If they are wise, they will be great and happy. If they are of a contrary character, they will be miserable. Righteousness alone can exalt them as a nation [Proverbs 14:34]. Reader! Whoever thou art, remember this, and in thy sphere practice virtue thyself and encourage it in others." Patrick Henry, Written on the back of Henry's Stamp Act "Amongst other strange things said of me, I hear it is said by the deists that I am one of the number; and, indeed, that some good people think I am no Christian. This thought gives me much more pain than the appellation of Tory; because I think religion of infinitely higher importance than politics; and I find much cause to reproach myself that I have lived so long, and have given no decided and public proofs of my being a Christian. But, indeed, my dear child, this is a character which I prize far above all this world has, or can boast." Patrick Henry, from a letter to his daughter in 1796 "The Bible is worth all other books which have ever been printed." Patrick Henry, Wirt Henry's, Life, vol. II, p. 621
“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org
"Three millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Beside, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of Nations, and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us." Patrick Henry John Jay "Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers. And it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest, of a Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers." First Chief Justice of Supreme Court John Jay to Jedidiah Morse February 28, 1797 "God's will be done; to him I resign--in him I confide. Do the like. Any other philosophy applicable to this occasion is delusive. Away with it." John Jay, first Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court, in a letter to his wife, Sally Jay, April 20, 1794, reprinted in The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, ed. Henry P. Johnston (New York, NY: Burt Franklin, 1970), vol. 4, p. 7. "I have long been of opinion that the evidence of the truth of Christianity requires only to be carefully examined to produce conviction in candid minds . . ." John Jay, in a letter to Rev. Uzal Ogden, Feb. 14, 1796, in CPPJJ, vol. 4, p. 203. "While in France . . . I do not recollect to have had more than two conversations with atheists about their tenants. The first was this: I was at a large party, of which were several of that description. They spoke freely and contemptuously of religion. I took no part in the conversation. In the course of it, one of them asked me if I believed in Christ? I answered that I did, and that I thanked God that I did." John Jay, in a letter to John Bristed, April 23, 1811, in CPPJJ, vol. 4, p. 359. "The same merciful Providence has also been pleased to cause every material event and occurrence respecting our Redeemer, together with the gospel he proclaimed, and the miracles and predictions to which it gave occasion, to be faithfully recorded and preserved for the information and benefit of all mankind." John Jay, in an address to the American Bible Society, May 9, 1822, in CPPJJ, vol. 4, p. 480.
“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org
The Christian faith is based on EVIDENCE, NOT YOUR LEAP INTO THE DARK.
“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org
How much more rope do you need?
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. " (Romans 1:16-17)
The KKK is watching professor Obama, and taking notes. He's taken race pimpin' to a whole new level! The D&R party neocon jihadis are pumping the mooselimb ((( FEAR ))) propaganda to keep any sane American from getting elected president. They want the sheeple to panic, and stampede towards a Clinton, or a Bush globalist swine. 8 more years of parasitic feasting on a dying America, is the D&R partys fondest hope. You must be at great odds with this world then. Faith is not the same as a "belief." Faith is something you demonstrate everytime you drive thru a green light, knowing cars will have stopped at the red light; Faith is sitting in your chair, knowing its four legs will support you; Faith is leaping into bed, knowing it will be soft, and won't collapse under your weight. Faith in the irrefutable evidence for and of God is so overwhelming that it is easy to believe in God. Conversely, lacking faith in the face of the preponderence of evidence supporting His existence is...il-logical. God's hand is literally everywhere. The evidence? It's seen in Cause and Effect, Design, and Moral Law (where did you get your sense of Right and Wrong again?)
Wow... Was there actually someone on this thread who claimed the majority of Founders were Deists?
But...Hasn't man's quest for knowledge and understanding included satisfying his innate spiritual and emotional hunger for understanding and communicating with God? To accept God as nothing more than a mere "mystery," one would have to ignore how God assured man of the genesis of the universe, the geneology of man and God in the flesh, life's instructions to man on wisdom, love, and purpose. One would also have to dismiss the 300 or more fulfilled prophecies of Jesus Christ, as well as the Gospel and...The End Game. It's all there in the Good Book. We can't play dumb with God, son. Sure, many things about God will remain a "mystery," but what matters isn't.
"Revisionist"?? Lol... Aren't you one of two posters on this thread requiring "proof" that Barry 0dinga has Muslified the USA?? You're like the bull who has already been festooned with dozens of darts by toreadors, snorting, "Hit me just once!"
"The general Principles, on which the Fathers Achieved Independence, were the only Principles in which that beautiful Assembly of young Gentlemen could Unite, and these Principles only could be intended by them in their Address, or by me in my Answer. And what were these general Principles? I answer, the general Principles of Christianity..." Now I will avow, that I then believed, and now believe, that those general Principles of Christianity, are as eternal and immutable, as the Existence and Attributes of God; and that those Principles of Liberty, are as unalterable as human Nature and our terrestrial, mundane System. Adams tees this one up and aces a hole in one in broad daylight, doesn't he? The Deist/Atheist/Agnostic Brigade will deny America's Christian heritage until they are blue in the face. Why is this the case? Because NONE of Founders (nor even the Deists) would have put up with their idea of God-less, Christian-less America. Moreover, any historical reference that fails to note America's "Christian" roots and Biblical principles aren't "historical," but revisionist.
My problem with all of the agina about a treaty concluded in the 1790s and the early 1800's is this: does it matter? Does it matter at all? It sure seems to matter to a lot of people. And why would that be? And if it DOES matter, even though having been written so long ago, then why do treaties with the Indians written by the same government one hundred years later NOT matter? Why are we not permitted to demand the punctilious observations of THOSE treaties, while we look back to a defunct treaty with a defunct emirate and give IT such importance? The answer is that the Indian treaties will cost us a lot of MONEY if we respect them, and we will lose political control of quite a bit of land. So two hundred million people are willing to turn a blind eye to treaties that contain legal obligations they have no intention of upholding, because it's not to their benefit. But people who think that a treat from the 1700s is in their benefit will exalt it. To me, the incongruity makes a mockery of the whole exercise, and reduces it to hypocrisy. If the treaty with the Barbary Pirates is important because of it's language, then treaties ratified one hundred years later with the Indians on our territory, tribes that are still here, are much MORE important, and ought to be respected to the letter. So, will the folks doing deep exegesis of the treaty with a defunct emirate devote that energy to upholding the honor of the nation by insisting on the full contractual rights under the Indian Treaties? Of course not. Forgive me for not caring what the Founders thought. Nobody cares what the politicians of a hundred years later when THEY bound the nation too. Americans only obey old laws and edicts that they find are beneficial. They ignore everything else.
So its just KKK like demagoguery? I gave you nine points and all you can muster is a BS feeble response to just one? Way to go, Sparky, you sure are a persuasive devil.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Providence? Which pantheon of Gods is he from? Olympian? I recognize Jesus and call him by that name. Why is Washington averse to mentioning Christ?
Are you a grand kegel?
Yea, where is it? Did they ban alcohol while I was away? Insist that abortions be banned? Force women to wear the bee keeper outfit? What has become more Islamic about the USA since Obama became president? Has the Muslim president banned gay marriage? No? How unislamic of him.
Did you read this thread?? LOL
So the Constitution as written by the Founding Fathers means something different to you than what they had in mind?
“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org
It shows that whatever the faith the Founders had at home in private - they were animated by other ideologies for the public. I actually point out the Treaty Of Tripoli to show America is and has always been an anti-Christ country founded on anti-Christ principals of Luciferian rebellion and Free Masononry inspired ecumenism. If this is a Christian country where is the cross on the flag like in the UK? The UK's flag has 3 Crosses on it (The Cross of St. Andrew, The Cross of St George, and The Cross of St. Patrick) and the USA's has 50 pentagrams.
I agree with your definitions of pantheism and deism, but I disagree with your word "atheism". I was a scientific pantheist, and I definitely believed in a God. God was the Laws of Nature. God was omnipotent, omnipresent and eternal. But he was not yet omniscient. He was evolving to that. Once intelligence, which manifestly is within the universe, had evolved to the point that it could simultaneously comprehend and control all matter and energy and mind, then God would also be omniscient. The circle would be complete, and the only thing left to do would be to create anew. A Big Crunch would occur, and the God of the previous universe would imprint his commands on every piece of matter or energy. Thus, the Natural Law IS God in a young universe, and it DOES come from the mind of God in the new universe, but the mind of God itself vanished with the end of the old universe. Intelligence in the new universe is evolving towards omniscience again. Already God is omnipotent, omnipresent and eternal - three out of the four components of the definition of God. And in the universe there is already intelligence, there is already '-science'. It is evolving TOWARDS omniscience, but it is not there yet. That is not atheism. It is a strong theism, actually. It's not Abrahamic theism, but it's theism. It's not deism either, for there is no watchmaker, detached God in this. God is the omnipotent, omnipresent, eternal laws of nature. But he's not omniscient, not yet. He will be. Then the Big Crunch will happen, and the universe will be born anew, imprinted with the commandments of the Once and Future God. That's theism. That was my religion until God reached out of the air and grabbed my face and talked to me. Only then was I confronted with the reality that there exist invisible, intelligent beings capable of comprehending my thoughts and manipulating my physical body. And that plus the physical miracles God left identifying who he is are what forced me from my natural pagan Scientific Pantheism into Catholicism. Absent direct personal revelation, I would still be a proud, articulate, committed Scientific Pantheist - and I was DEFINITELY a theist. My God then was the same as yours in terms of power and presence, but lacked the PERSONALITY of yours. He showed me that he has those attributes too, and I had to adjust what I believed to fit the empirical reality that I now know. I was more comfortable as a pantheist, because of moral issues. Catholicism is uncomfortably strict. I don't adhere to it because I like it. I only follow it because it's True. But absent revelation, my pantheism was definitely theistic, and definitely not atheistic. I had a God. My God was the Natural Law. Now, the REAL God is also the Natural Law. The difference is that the real God also, right now, has a mind. That is the cardinal difference. But it's not true to call my old religion, my pagan Pantheism, atheism. I could never be an atheist, because there clearly ARE laws that govern every speck of matter absolutely. And THAT is certainly God. I was right about all of that too. Natural Law IS God. But it's the hand of God, on matter. God has a MIND, and THAT is the great revelation, to me, of God. The artifacts the thinking God left are all Christian, indeed Catholic, and that's why I am a Catholic: the evidence requires it. Obviously the Bible never comes into this at all at this level. It STARTS with the Physics book, the Chemistry book, the Astronomy book, the Biology book. And then it applies those to the artifacts and finds miracle. And notes the informational content of the miracle, and accepts that Physics is a Divine Law, from a mind, and not random. And the artifacts show us that the divine mind is associated with Jesus, for it is about him that all the miracles are left. To know what Jesus wanted, NOW we finally have to open the Bible, to the Gospels and Revelation, and look at what he said and did. HE pointed back to what God said and did in the Torah, so we have to look at that. And then there's all the rest in the Bible that he didn't say or God didn't say directly. All of that is wisdom and history and obiter dictum. Some of it conflicts with what Jesus or YHWH said. Where that happens, Jesus is divine and YHWH is God, and the other information comes from a man and has been a little garbled in transmission. I could never get to God through the Bible, because the Bible can't verify itself. I had to have miracles, and to really understand that a miracle is a miracle, I had to have decades of science. Pantheism isn't atheism. I wasn't an atheist before I was a Christian. I was a pagan who believed in a God. And in fact, I WAS looking at the real God, but I was focused on his hand and legs. In Christianity I now see his face. My pantheism was not an error. It was mostly True. But it was incomplete. The error in it was the one that Pridie.Nones makes: seeing luck, the randomness of entropy, where there is in fact conscious will. THAT is the grand difference.
Did you read this thread?? LOL And still waiting for how America has become more Islamic? I see America becoming more secular not more religious.
LOL. Boy, you REALLY don't like the US, do you?
Providence? Which pantheon of Gods is he from? Olympian? I recognize Jesus and call him by that name. Why is Washington averse to mentioning Christ? "Almighty and eternal Lord God, the great Creator of heaven and earth, and the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ; look down from heaven in pity and compassion upon me Thy servant, who humbly prorate myself before Thee." George Washington's prayer at Valley Forge Reading carefully is not one of your better attributes, is it?
“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org
Physicists now think the big crunch won't happen - we are in an ever expanding universe that will eventually fly apart in all directions and experience a heat death. The universe will not snap back and rexplode and renew itself.
DUH. That you even question the obvious Islamic influence of the US gubmint and projection of a pro-Muslim agenda and policy is the very definition of cognitive dissonance. The term "Islamic Terrorism" is not to be uttered. 0dinga's admin, 0dinga's State Dept, his and cabinet are crawling with Muzz-Symps. From Jarret to Brennan. There are countless others. Your hatred of America has lobotomized your brain.
Protestant lies about Washington because they realize he was a Satanic Free Mason. That prayer you cited was bullshit - an invention during the 19th century. http://www.ushistory.org/valleyforge/washington/prayer.html One of the legends or myths of Valley Forge is that Washington prayed for his country here. We do not say that he did not pray at Valley Forge, there simply is an open question as to how he did so and if he actually was witnessed in prayer.
In other words you slandered people because they have Muslim names and maybe they don't like Israel. I guess the FBI had to look the other way at their Islamic terror ties when they did their background check. Listen, this kind of 'evidence' may work on the rubes in fly over state but it's laughable to me.
Yes. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" is in play here. That mutual "enemy" is...Christianity. Islam isn't so much a "religion" as a cult. Just like secular humanism.
Whose words? Yours. Ok, that's clarified. Secondly, nice theory. That is IF you've been on a another planet since the year 900 A.D. You've conveniently ignore the goal of Islam, Why is that? Their goal: To turn the entire planet into a Caliphate, complete with Sharia Law. In the name of Satan, aka Allah. I guess the FBI had to look the other way at their Islamic terror ties when they did their background check. Thanks for adding 1+1. Listen, this kind of 'evidence' may work on the rubes in fly over state but it's laughable to me. Of course it's laughable to you -- you're clinically insane.
The Constitution as written was so dramatically altered by the post-Civil War amendments that it is, in effect, a new Constitution that just carries the window-dressing of the old. The Founders had three constitutions. The first was unwritten and ad hoc, and the country operated on it throughout the Revolution. At the end of the Revolutionary War, the Articles of Confederation were adopted. The war was WON before they were adopted. The Articles proved inefficient, so the Constitution of 1787, ratified in 1789, was put in place. It had its good points, but it ultimately failed because it could not address the evil of slavery. The country fell apart and war put it back together. To win that war, the Union broke the Constitution as necessary. After the war, Amendments were made, and realities of power were imposed, that made a new Constitution. Call it the Constitution of 1868. That's what we lived under until the 1930s. It ended up being morally compromised in two ways: the States were able to resurge and exert power to abuse the freed slaves to the point of disenfranchisement and apartheid, and the economic structure didn't work. With the Supreme Court, FDR got the Commerce Clause to mean plenary power for the federal government, and we have lived with that structure ever since. At each phase, the Constitution did mean exactly what its founders intended, but it didn't work. The first Constitution, the unwritten modus operandi of the Continental Congress, was sufficient to keep a regular army in being and in the field long enough to defeat the British and win independence, but it had no further governing power. And that was wholly insufficient for a new country of 13 states. The second, the Articles of Confederation, better coordination was got, but the fear of sacrifice of sovereignty was so great that it ultimately didn't work. It didn't even work for its amendment: the Constitutional Convention and ratification process violated the existing constitution (the Articles). The Constitution of 1787 sufficed for an expanding land power that engaged in shipping, but it could not address the evil of slavery, so it failed. The Constitution of 1868 addressed the evil of slavery, but could not deal with the corruption of crony capitalism. It failed in Plessy v. Ferguson and the Great Depression. FDR's Constitution of 1934 - the "West Coast Hotel" Constitution is what we are living under now. It concentrated power sufficiently to allow apartheid to be abolished, to win World War II and the Cold War, and to make America a middle class nation, but it is failing now, as there is no check against runaway government spending. It looks as though the check on THAT may well be Vladimir Putin. When the economic system comes unraveled, a new Constitution, our fifth, may emerge from the rubble. We COULD just amend the existing one through an Article V convention that sweeps away West Coast Hotel and Kelo, but it seems unlikely that we will. There is too much fear and too many vested interests. Same was true before the Civil War. So we'll have to actually get destroyed first, THEN new parties and interests will rise from the rubble. Maybe. Then again, Lithuania and Hungary were once the mightiest states in Eastern Europe, and Denmark made the West tremble. When they fell, they never got back up. We shall see. Truth is, the Constitution has written by the Founding Fathers stopped meaning anything in 1861. Now it's just like an old family crest. One wears it with pride and it shows the history, but the actual Constitution is what is really DONE, and the Founders' Constitution was set aside when it failed to address the evil of slavery. The current Constitution will be set aside because the concentration of government power without checks means inevitable national bankruptcy, driven by an unchecked government. If Putin goes to the gold standard, we will see dimly the shape of the 6th US Constitution. But the country may be so devastated by the economic collapse that it breaks up and regions go their separate ways.
That's right. But my pantheism was developed in the Physics of the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s and 1990's. God grabbed my face in July, 2001. Now the lack of the closed end makes the diesel-engine universe less plausible. But of course the universe isn't REALLY expanding at all. What is perceived as expansion is merely a misinterpretation of the quantum red-shift of light. Someday, somebody is going to turn the telescope lens around and realize that what they are seeing is the quantized SLOWING of light, consistently, over time. We think we're seeing down-doppler due to expansion. What we're actually seeing is down doppler due to light slowing down. But the world isn't ready for that yet, because we have our Ptolemaic system of today, which doesn't put the earth at the center of all and insist on epicycle, but which instead holds the speed of light constant and bends observations to fit that. The result is lots of "epicycles". They disappear when one stops arbitrarily putting light at the center and realizes that light has demonstrably slowed, and still is slowing. But that is not for today. That is for two decades hence. For now, we just have to observe that the physics are cracking up.
The Founders had three constitutions. The first was unwritten and ad hoc, and the country operated on it throughout the Revolution. At the end of the Revolutionary War, the Articles of Confederation were adopted. The war was WON before they were adopted. Spoken like a Frenchman! I doubt any Anglo will admit the reality, the USA has had several constitutions - while pretending they still live under their original one. Americans don't even acknowledge the presidents under the Articles Of Confederation except in special circumstances. It's as if the education myth industry does not want to obscure the myth that George Washington was the first president.
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#286. To: Pridie.Nones (#280)
#287. To: Pridie.Nones (#280)
#288. To: Pericles (#259)
#289. To: All (#281)
#290. To: GarySpFC (#283)
The Christian faith is an action or a readiness to act based on the confidence one has is the object of their belief. Basically, faith is a verb.
#291. To: Pericles (#260)
Why did Rush Limbaugh defend Joseph Kony and Lord's Resistance Army (+video)?
#292. To: All (#281)
#293. To: Pridie.Nones (#280)
#294. To: Pridie.Nones (#277)
#295. To: All (#281)
#296. To: Pridie.Nones (#280)
#297. To: Pridie.Nones (#290)
A "verb" based on a belief. Thank you for clarifying the detail that I have been suggesting all along this thread.
#298. To: Pridie.Nones (#290)
A "verb" based on a belief. Thank you for clarifying the detail that I have been suggesting all along this thread.
#299. To: Pericles, D 'n R globalist swine, SOSO, Murron, Gatlin, cranky, Stoner, Liberator, Pridie.Nones, Deckard, CZ82, GarySpFC, rlk, Vicomte13, redleghunter, sneakypete (#259)
KKK like demagoguery
The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#300. To: Pridie.Nones, GarySpFC (#280)
Faith? Isn't that term nothing more than a literal or juxtaposed transition of "belief?" If so, you agree with me. If not, you and I are at great odds.
#301. To: redleghunter, Pridie.Nones (#294)
The majority of the founders were not deists. That's a leftist lie.
#302. To: Pridie.Nones (#273)
God is a mystery. The creation of all about us is a mystery. There is not much more than that perspective at this time in mankind's quest for knowledge to understand himself and the world around himself.
#303. To: Pericles (#232)
"...Fundie revisionists trying to grasp at straws."
#304. To: redleghunter, GarySpFc, Murron (#282)
(Edited)
[John] Adams would be one of the last people to declare the USA did not hail from Christian roots. He was clear on this matter:
#305. To: redleghunter (#282)
#306. To: Pericles, Murron, Gatlin, cranky, Stoner, Liberator, Pridie.Nones, Deckard, CZ82, GarySpFC, rlk, hondo68, Vicomte13, redleghunter, sneakypete (#259)
""I ask again, what Muslim agenda has Obama enacted in the USA?" The same agenda he has to destroy the white U.S. middle class.
#307. To: GarySpFC, Pridie.Nones (#285)
The Hand of providence
#308. To: sneakypete (#288)
No,it is an actual fact. Basically,thanks to blacks being placed in the Dim Plantation after 1964 there are virtually no middle-class blacks left in this country that don't have AA jobs in government or corporations with government ties,so that leaves the whites. Which includes Jews as well as some His and Her Panics.
#309. To: Liberator (#303)
Aren't you one of two posters on this thread requiring "proof" that Barry 0dinga has Muslified the USA??
#310. To: Pericles (#309)
Where is it?
#311. To: Vicomte13 (#305)
Forgive me for not caring what the Founders thought. Nobody cares what the politicians of a hundred years later when THEY bound the nation too. Americans only obey old laws and edicts that they find are beneficial. They ignore everything else.
#312. To: Vicomte13, redleghunter, GarySpFC, Pridie.Nones (#305)
My problem with all of the agina about a treaty concluded in the 1790s and the early 1800's is this: does it matter?
#313. To: GarySpFC (#275)
Pantheism identifies the universe with God, but their God is "not a personal being", who involves Himself in the affairs of men. Deism admits there is a personal being, however he no longer has a relationship with man. Both are forms of atheism, and especially the former.
#314. To: Liberator (#310)
Where is it?
#315. To: Pericles (#312)
If this is a Christian country where is the cross on the flag like in the UK? The UK's flag has 3 Crosses on it (The Cross of St. Andrew, The Cross of St George, and The Cross of St. Patrick) and the USA's has 50 pentagrams.
#316. To: Pericles (#307)
The Hand of providence
#317. To: Vicomte13, GarySpFC (#313)
He will be. Then the Big Crunch will happen, and the universe will be born anew, imprinted with the commandments of the Once and Future God.
#318. To: Pericles (#309)
(Edited)
What has become more Islamic about the USA since 0bama became president?
#319. To: GarySpFC (#316)
#320. To: Liberator (#318)
DUH. That you even question the obvious Islamic influence of the US gubmint and projection of a pro-Muslim agenda and policy is the very definition of cognitive dissonance. The term "Islamic Terrorism" is not to be uttered. 0dinga's admin, 0dinga's State Dept, his and cabinet are crawling with Muzz-Symps. From Jarret to Brennan. There are countless others. Your hatred of America has lobotomized your brain.
#321. To: Pericles (#314)
I see America becoming more secular not more religious.
#322. To: Pericles (#320)
(Edited)
In other words you slandered people because they have Muslim names and maybe they don't like Israel.
#323. To: GarySpFC (#311)
So the Constitution as written by the Founding Fathers means something different to you than what they had in mind?
#324. To: Pericles (#317)
Physicists now think the big crunch won't happen - we are in an ever expanding universe that will eventually fly apart in all directions and experience a heat death. The universe will not snap back and rexplode and renew itself.
#325. To: Vicomte13, GarySpFC (#323)
(Edited)
The Constitution as written was so dramatically altered by the post-Civil War amendments that it is, in effect, a new Constitution that just carries the window-dressing of the old.
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