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Title: Devout Police Supporter has Change of Heart After Being Arrested by NYPD on Bogus Charge
Source:
Free Thought Project
URL Source: http://thefreethoughtproject.com/de ... rt-arrested-nypd-bogus-charge/
Published: Feb 2, 2015
Author: Matt Agorist
Post Date: 2015-02-02 18:21:33 by Deckard
Keywords: Lying Cops, False Arrest, Police State
Views: 7615
Comments: 25
New York, NY — A common meme amongst those in the police accountability movement is that it is only a matter of time before an entirely innocent person crosses paths with the wrong cop and gets a hefty dose of police state USA. All too often we hear the ridiculous statement from the apologist crowd saying, “If you don’t break the law, you have nothing to worry about.” However, that statement couldn’t be further from the truth. Former NSA official William Binney sums this myth up quite accurately, “The problem is, if they think they’re not doing anything that’s wrong, they don’t get to define that. The central government does.” Attorney Harvey Silverglate argues that the average American commits three felonies a day without even knowing it. In reality, there are too many cases to count of innocent people, some who’ve been recognized as pillars of society, being attacked and imprisoned by a system which claims to protect them. When people assert that not breaking the law protects them from police abuse, those of us with our finger on the pulse of this corrupt police state, answer back by stating, “it’s only a matter of time before they are proven wrong.” As a point of clarification, it is important to state the difference between hating cops and holding police accountable. Those of us who hold police accountable are often referred to as “cop haters” and “anti-cop.” Police officers are human beings, they are our brothers and sisters, mothers, fathers, and sons and daughters. To blindly hate a person because of a badge is irresponsible as well as dangerous. However, equally irresponsible and dangerous is to blindly apologize for criminals and psychopaths because of that same badge. That being said, former police apologist, Carsten Vogel, had his “time” come last month. According to his Facebook page, Carsten Vogel was one of those people who seemed to blindly support police, no matter what. During the NYPD slowdown, Vogel was involved in a heated argument with a Facebook friend, according to the Village Voice. “The police in NYC are now refusing to make the mayor look good,” Vogel wrote in a thread on his Facebook page. “I get it. I don’t think the police are abandoning their jobs or responsibilities. I think they are refusing to play the game.” However, in January, Vogel’s attitude would quickly change after he was approached by an NYPD officer on a mission to deprive someone of their rights. Vogel was on his way to work when an NYPD officer detained him and asked him what he had in his pocket. Vogel was carrying a completely legal pocket knife, which was visible by the clip on the outside of his pocket. Vogel’s knife is no different than any of the other millions of folding knives legally carried by Americans every day. But the fact that this knife was legal did not stop this NYPD officer from making it illegal. After Vogel handed the officer his knife, the officer, with the flip of his wrist and using the weight of the blade, caused Vogel’s knife to pop open. “It looked like a magic trick,” Vogel says of the officer’s move in a statement to the Village Voice. “That’s the best way I can describe it. It looked like magic. It’s something that this guy has obviously practiced a lot.” The NYPD is unique in the respect that they are one of the only departments in the country to use this “flip of the wrist” to convert legal pocket knives into illegal gravity knives. This practice is known to be controversial and immoral, but this does not stop the NYPD from doing it, often. The Village Voice reports that even police officers know that this tactic makes people dislike them: When we wrote about gravity knife arrests in October, it set off a lengthy discussion on Thee Rant, a verified online forum for NYPD officers. One user, in what seems to be a prescient comment, wrote that gravity knife arrests are “Why the public hates us. [Be]cause discretion has been taken away and it’s all about numbers.” Vogel was subsequently arrested and brought to the station. He was charged with criminal possession of a weapon. He is now facing multiple trips to court, legal fees, and thousands in court costs and possible fines. Prior to the ride down to the station, Vogel was still accepting of what these officers were doing. He figured that this was their job, and they were doing what they had to do. But then he started listening to the officers talking. According to Vogel, the officers were openly talking about how they needed to make arrests in order to receive promotions. “They were saying, ‘Why is he getting promoted?’ “ Vogel recalls. ” ‘He’s only got, like, two guns and a burglary and a few robberies?’ “ “Here they are talking about promotions, and the relationship between arrest and promotions. And I’m just a pawn,” said Vogel. The Village Voice reports: After his ordeal, Vogel went back to Facebook. He was upset, and he was trying to warn others about the knife law. One of his friends, the same one he’d occasionally sparred with over the police, chimed in. “Aren’t you the one always arguing how great cops are and that they’re just doing their jobs?” she wrote. “Never again,” Vogel replied. 
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#1. To: hondo68, Stoner, A K A Stone, CZ82, tpaine, sneakypete, TooConservative, TEA Party Reveler, Dead Culture Watch, Pridie.Nones, Excalibur, Operation 40, Gatlin, misterwhite, Palmdale, Nexus6, GrandIsland (#0)
Vogel was on his way to work when an NYPD officer detained him and asked him what he had in his pocket. Vogel was carrying a completely legal pocket knife, which was visible by the clip on the outside of his pocket. Vogel’s knife is no different than any of the other millions of folding knives legally carried by Americans every day. But the fact that this knife was legal did not stop this NYPD officer from making it illegal. Ping
I quit supporting the police in July of 1976, when I gave my life to Christ and found I could not be both a Christian and a federal cop.
The guy ran into a ticket mill, a honey pot. It happens every day all over this country. And people never seem to believe it can happen to them. Until it does.
First I'll state, in my 20 years I never arrested for the possession of any knife, except a dagger I found on a person I arrested for a burglary (probably 18 years ago)in progress. I've confidcated switchblades, butterfly knives and metal/brass knuckles from people I've arrested for other crimes (like DWI, warrants ect) but only bagged, tagged and sent to evidence for destruction. Never arrested for CPW 4th for any knife... but that dagger. I've encountered hundreds upon hundreds of people with folding knives and exposed folding knives clipped to their pockets... and I've never arrested a single person for a "folding knife" that can be opened by gravity or the "flick of a wrist". I might have held onto them while I interviewed or arrested them... but always returned the common pocket or folding knife upon release. With that said... here is the law signed into law by elected politicians: Penal § 265.01 Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree. A person is guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree when: (1) He or she possesses any firearm, electronic dart gun, electronic stun gun, gravity knife, switchblade knife, pilum ballistic knife, metal knuckle knife, cane sword, billy, blackjack, bludgeon, plastic knuckles, metal knuckles, chuka stick, sand bag, sandclub, wrist-brace type slingshot or slungshot, shirken or "Kung Fu star"; or (2) He possesses any dagger, dangerous knife, dirk, razor, stiletto, imitation pistol, or any other dangerous or deadly instrument or weapon with intent to use the same unlawfully against another; or (3); or (4) He possesses a rifle, shotgun, antique firearm, black powder rifle, black powder shotgun, or any muzzle-loading firearm, and has been convicted of a felony or serious offense; or (5) He possesses any dangerous or deadly weapon and is not a citizen of the United States; or (6) He is a person who has been certified not suitable to possess a rifle or shotgun, as defined in subdivision sixteen of section 265.00, and refuses to yield possession of such rifle or shotgun upon the demand of a police officer. Whenever a person is certified not suitable to possess a rifle or shotgun, a member of the police department to which such certification is made, or of the state police, shall forthwith seize any rifle or shotgun possessed by such person. A rifle or shotgun seized as herein provided shall not be destroyed, but shall be delivered to the headquarters of such police department, or state police, and there retained until the aforesaid certificate has been rescinded by the director or physician in charge, or other disposition of such rifle or shotgun has been ordered or authorized by a court of competent jurisdiction. (7) He knowingly possesses a bullet containing an explosive substance designed to detonate upon impact. (8) He possesses any armor piercing ammunition with intent to use the same unlawfully against another. Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree is a class A misdemeanor. Here are the definitions as defined by written law: New York Penal Law 265.01(1) - Defining & Identifying Knives While some knives are criminal merely to possess, some are only criminal if used in a particular way. The following knives are “per se” weapons: Gravity Knife – A gravity knife is a knife containing a blade that is released from its handle. This blade is released through the force of gravity. Once released, the blade then locked in place usually by a button or similar device. A gravity knife can be open with a motion as simple as a flick of the wrist. Switchblade Knife – Unlike a gravity knife, a switchblade knife springs open automatically when a button or pressure is applied to the handle. Pilum Ballistic Knife – Similar to a switchblade knife, a pilum ballistic knife utilizes some form of pressure on the handle to project a knife from within that handle. Metal Knuckle Knife – A combination between “brass knuckles” and a knife, only when the blade is open can a metal knuckle knife serve as both knuckles and a knife I personally wouldn't arrest for it unless the knife was used as a weapon, illegally.... then again, I'm just a lowly civilian. I didn't write the law, support the law, pass the law or vote for anyone that did. I moved from NYS because of these nanny type laws. I moved because I feel 99% of NYS's laws will be ruled constitutional when challenged. Including the UnSafeAct. All it takes is one judge to rule that a folding knife isn't defined as a "gravity knife"... then you have case law.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
An unemployed musician claims he was a "fervent" supporter of NYPD, but they used a "magic trick" to frame him. Right.
"The biggest mistake that libertarians make is the way they view government and private sectors. Government is the root of all evil, and the private sector is the source of all good. Libertarians have never figured out that people are the same whether in the government or in the private sector." --Paul Craig Roberts
Well, all I have to say is that retirement must be good for you. You're not the obnoxious prick you were before at LP.
I'm still that obnoxious prick... but I promissed Stone I wouldn't shit in his living room. To post in this forum is a privledge.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
This is what happens when you give bullies guns and badges, and pay them to go out and disturb the peace. Paid troublemakers.
You two should hug.
Very funny. lol
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Is that an acceptable form of reference now?
The problem addressed by your post is the same one constantly discussed in America based on many issues becasue of vagueries in not just law or administration of law but the training about law. It is a perpetual motion mchine within the American Justice System; you almost think this system has nothing to do with common sense but just to make money based on bullshite. Although a bit off-topic, the same argument applies to the archaic definition of an "assault rifle." Most laws ensure an assualt rifle looks farly menacing and normally without a wooden stock, as though a wooden stock is a non-assault rifle. The bullshit is because of legalese in written laws on the city, county, state and federal levels; all written differently because of different lexicons.
Not really. But in the context it was kind of a compliment. I understand where you are coming from though.
Sounds familiar.
GrandIsland, Yukon, Palmdale, SOD and Gatlin just ignore empirical evidence that the cop thugs suck and they are in complete denial. The news media can't prop them or the politicians up anymore. They now resort to publicity stunts like being pallbearers at a tyke or grannies funeral that they latch onto like the parasites they truly are. Yep, the cops suck!
When I think of a legal folding knife, I envision a short-bladed one that takes two hands to open. A knife that opens and locks into place with a flick of the wrist is a gravity knife. The guy was breaking the law. He was arrested. Now he's whining about ... what? The law? His ignorance? That an exception should be made for him because he's a nice guy?
Fact? No, the knife was NOT legal.
Do you ever tire of being wrong? Vogel’s knife is no different than any of the other millions of folding knives legally carried by Americans every day. But the fact that this knife was legal did not stop this NYPD officer from making it illegal. After Vogel handed the officer his knife, the officer, with the flip of his wrist and using the weight of the blade, caused Vogel’s knife to pop open. “It looked like a magic trick,” Vogel says of the officer’s move in a statement to the Village Voice. “That’s the best way I can describe it. It looked like magic. It’s something that this guy has obviously practiced a lot.” The NYPD is unique in the respect that they are one of the only departments in the country to use this “flip of the wrist” to convert legal pocket knives into illegal gravity knives. This practice is known to be controversial and immoral, but this does not stop the NYPD from doing it, often. The Village Voice reports that even police officers know that this tactic makes people dislike them: When we wrote about gravity knife arrests in October, it set off a lengthy discussion on Thee Rant, a verified online forum for NYPD officers. One user, in what seems to be a prescient comment, wrote that gravity knife arrests are “Why the public hates us. [Be]cause discretion has been taken away and it’s all about numbers.” The cop used magic to make the knife open! "The biggest mistake that libertarians make is the way they view government and private sectors. Government is the root of all evil, and the private sector is the source of all good. Libertarians have never figured out that people are the same whether in the government or in the private sector." --Paul Craig Roberts
The NYPD is unique in the respect that they are one of the only departments in the country to use this “flip of the wrist” to convert legal pocket knives into illegal gravity knives. This practice is known to be controversial and immoral, but this does not stop the NYPD from doing it, often.
So you say.
"The biggest mistake that libertarians make is the way they view government and private sectors. Government is the root of all evil, and the private sector is the source of all good. Libertarians have never figured out that people are the same whether in the government or in the private sector." --Paul Craig Roberts
So you say. So THEY (the cops themselves)say. The Village Voice reports that even police officers know that this tactic makes people dislike them: When we wrote about gravity knife arrests in October, it set off a lengthy discussion on Thee Rant, a verified online forum for NYPD officers. One user, in what seems to be a prescient comment, wrote that gravity knife arrests are “Why the public hates us. [Be]cause discretion has been taken away and it’s all about numbers.” *** This really would be no different than arresting someone for marijuana when what they actually have is oregano. The Village Voice Even the Village Voice doesn't match your claim.
"The biggest mistake that libertarians make is the way they view government and private sectors. Government is the root of all evil, and the private sector is the source of all good. Libertarians have never figured out that people are the same whether in the government or in the private sector." --Paul Craig Roberts
Even the Village Voice doesn't match your claim. Why don't you check out the cop discussion at the cop-site link? Too stupid?
Post the imaginary quote.
"The biggest mistake that libertarians make is the way they view government and private sectors. Government is the root of all evil, and the private sector is the source of all good. Libertarians have never figured out that people are the same whether in the government or in the private sector." --Paul Craig Roberts
However, in January, Vogel’s attitude would quickly change after he was approached by an NYPD officer on a mission to deprive someone of their rights.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#2. To: Deckard (#0)
#3. To: Deckard (#1)
#4. To: Deckard (#0)
Vogel was subsequently arrested and brought to the station. He was charged with criminal possession of a weapon. He is now facing multiple trips to court, legal fees, and thousands in court costs and possible fines.
#5. To: Deckard (#0)
#6. To: GrandIsland (#4)
I moved from NYS because of these nanny type laws. I moved because I feel 99% of NYS's laws will be ruled constitutional when challenged. Including the UnSafeAct.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#7. To: Deckard, AKA Stone (#6)
You're not the obnoxious prick you were before at LP.
#8. To: Deckard, community agitators, looking for trouble (#1)
The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#9. To: GrandIsland (#7)
You're not the obnoxious prick you were before at LP. I'm still that obnoxious prick... but I promissed Stone I wouldn't shit in his living room. To post in this forum is a privledge.
#10. To: A K A Stone (#9)
(Edited)
You two should hug.
#11. To: A K A Stone (#9)
obnoxious prick
#12. To: Deckard (#1)
Vogel’s knife is no different than any of the other millions of folding knives legally carried by Americans every day. But the fact that this knife was legal did not stop this NYPD officer from making it illegal.
#13. To: Otter (#11)
obnoxious prick Is that an acceptable form of reference now?
#14. To: Deckard (#0)
#15. To: GrandIsland (#7)
#16. To: GrandIsland (#4)
#17. To: Deckard (#0)
"But the fact that this knife was legal ..."
#18. To: misterwhite (#16)
The guy was breaking the law.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#19. To: misterwhite (#17)
No, the knife was NOT legal.
#20. To: Palmdale (#19)
The cop used magic to make the knife open!
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#21. To: Deckard (#20)
The NYPD is unique in the respect that they are one of the only departments in the country to use this “flip of the wrist” to convert legal pocket knives into illegal gravity knives.
#22. To: Palmdale (#21)
The NYPD is unique in the respect that they are one of the only departments in the country to use this “flip of the wrist” to convert legal pocket knives into illegal gravity knives.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#23. To: Deckard (#22)
So THEY (the cops themselves)say.
#24. To: Palmdale (#23)
The Village Voice
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#25. To: Deckard (#24)
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