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Title: 'American Sniper': Prominent Libertarian Claims There Is No Difference Between Chris Kyle and Mass Murderer Adam Lanza
Source:
http://www.hngn.com/
URL Source: http://www.hngn.com/articles/65352/ ... ce-between-chris-kyle-mass.htm
Published: Jan 31, 2015
Author: ida Ahmed
Post Date: 2015-01-31 15:56:37 by Gatlin
Keywords: None
Views: 83891
Comments: 315
A prominent libertarian activist has made controversial comparisons between the late "American Sniper" protagonist Navy SEAL Chris Kyle and mass murderer Adam Lanza, who killed 28 people in a 2012 shooting spree. Lanza isn't much different from Kyle, a Navy SEAL sniper who killed 160 people during multiple combat tours in Iraq, Sheldon Richman, vice president of the Future of Freedom Foundation, said on Wednesday. Two years ago, Lanza shot his mother to death, then proceeded to a nearby Sandy Hook Elementary School and killed 20 first-graders and six staffers before committing suicide. "Excuse me, but I have trouble seeing an essential difference between what Kyle did in Iraq and what Adam Lanza did at Sandy Hook Elementary School. It certainly was not heroism," Richman wrote in an op-ed published on the Future of Freedom Foundation website and reprinted by Reason.com. "Despite what some people think, hero is not a synonym for competent government-hired killer," he added. Speaking about the widely debated Clint Eastwood's movie, Richman slammed Kyle's actions, Breitbart reported. "Let's recall some facts, which perhaps Eastwood thought were too obvious to need mention: Kyle was part of an invasion force: Americans went to Iraq. Iraq did not invade America or attack Americans. Dictator Saddam Hussein never even threatened to attack Americans," he continued. "Contrary to what the George W. Bush administration suggested, Iraq had nothing to do with the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001. Before Americans invaded Iraq, Al Qaeda was not there. Nor was it in Syria, Yemen, and Libya." "Wars of aggression, let's remember, are illegal under international law. Nazis were executed at Nuremberg for waging wars of aggression." "The only reason Kyle went to Iraq was that Bush/Cheney & Co. launched a war of aggression against the Iraqi people," he wrote. The deceased sniper cannot be deemed a hero because the American military personnel's lives that he was protecting were the aggressors themselves, according to Richman, Newsmax reported. "What American lives? The lives of American military personnel who invaded another people's country, one that was no threat to them or their fellow Americans back home." If "an invader kills someone who is trying to resist the invasion, that does not count as heroic self-defense; the invader is the aggressor. If anyone's the hero, it's the latter," he wrote. The people who Kyle killed on the battlefield only threatened Americans because "American forces waged an unprovoked war against them," he added. "No Iraqi asked to be killed by Kyle, but it sure looks as though Kyle was asking to be killed by an Iraqi. [Instead, another vet did the job.
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#197. To: sneakypete (#194)
Is that so,scholar? Spent a lot of time in Special Operations,did ya? See the link those words were posted by someone involved in such affairs.
True enough. But still not a SEAL. The real SEAL program was just developing from the UDTs when Ventura got out. UDT and SEAL programs both operated through the Seventies.
Me either. : )
Ok,it's plain to see you have never been around anyone that has a genuine case of PTSD. Here is a hint. They ain't the most organized people in the world.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Well, dogs really are not that common in Muslim countries because Muslims just hate dogs and consider dog owners to be bad Muslims. So even their military and security aren't going to like using dogs the way the rest of us do. So SEALs probably haven't encountered guard dogs that often in recent missions in the Mideast. Anyway, that does occur to me as a likely explanation. Most often, the SEALs rely on stealth in their mission plans. If dogs were going to raise the alarm on them, their plan was foiled easily and they regrouped rather than stage an abortive or fruitless raid.
No. Face it,the SEALS are geared towards high-profile raids where they are only on the ground for a day or two at the most. Usually for only a couple of hours. IMHO,the Seal Lt in the most recent Hollywood movie about SEALS is directly responsible for the death of his team mates due to having that "Hollywood mindset". He should have either killed the 2 kids herding the goats,or just tied them to a tree and cancelled the mission and pulled his men out. He needed that "ground combat mindset" instead of the "Hollywood Raid mindset",and he didn't have it. That's what leadership is all about,and that's why they pay leaders the big bucks. You have to make the hard decisions and live with them. I know this isn't going to make me popular,but it had to be said.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
I agree. I think the Army or Marines should encompass all these activities that the SEALs are in now. I don't like it when the services try to compete in combat specialties. It ends badly and wastes a lot of money. Today you see the SEALs plucking off the top recruits across the services. They should all be Army or Marines. Personally, I'd just expand the Army Rangers and put all the SEALs under them. They could have a special program for UDT-qualified operators. And the Navy could keep their own UDT specialists. SEALs should be part of the Army special forces. Leave the Marines as a separate branch of the Navy, just out of tradition.
Obsessed over something I have never seen, OK whatever. So how long do you think I've been posting on political blogs anyway?
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
Two months and counting.
Yes bright. Someone bright or intelligent may not be well educated. Someone well educated can be unremarkable. When I went to Airborne school I had 5 SEALS in my stick (section). I learned the physical, mental and psychological toils of Buds training and scuba/dive school. A bag of rocks would die in those environments.
"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools " (Romans 1:21-22)
I have been to the Russian Battle for Stalingrad Museum in Volograd just to see Vasily Zaytsev's rifle, which he supposedly used to kill 225 Germans. Kruschev created the lie, because their is no record of the German officer he was going against existing in the German Army. This is America, NOT Russia where lies are the standard. Go learn the difference.
“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org
So the RPG guy was essentially a sniper with an RPG. Was he brave? Was he a patriot of Afghanistan and a freedom fighter? Or just a terrorist? In both cases the one shooting was defending their units. Very much so as an artillery unit providing fire support. In the military we don't put such labels of heroism by specific MOS. It's a team effort. I've seen combat support soldiers act as brave as a commando. In the case of Kyle he had two Silver stars and four or five BSMs for valor. Those are not handed out like candy and require witnesses and investigation. The Navy I admit is a bit more stingy on the above as I remember from serving attached to 2nd MARDIV during the Gulf War. So at least for the cited incidents of his valor awards, his peers and leadership sure did think he deserved the recognition.
"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools " (Romans 1:21-22)
Agreed. When I went to jump school, (Ft Campbell 1955) it really wasn't that bad. -- If memory serves, we had less than a 5% drop out rate.
Hit your head on a tomahawk again?
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
But a military sniper is a military asset and few object to using snipers or choppers or artillery or any other means to wipe out an enemy sniper. Yes artillery is now considered precision fires. Most of our munitions are GPS or laser guided. The munitions can also be adjusted for yield. In Iraq in one city we had a sniper problem. We used a low yield 155mm round to kill the sniper on top of a building without damaging the apartments below the roof. Jihadis use civilian population centers to wage their war so we have to find the weapon with the least collateral effect. And in some cases that would be a sniper.
"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools " (Romans 1:21-22)
I hear ignorance shouting from the rooftops. There is a major difference between moving and still targets, and good troops keep moving to present the sniper with poor shots. Modern day snipers are hunted with a vengeance, and getting into position is a major problem for them.
“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org
Special Ops are called the "Quiet Professionals." and he broke the code. You have mistaken his silence in certain areas as lying.
“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org
I can understand and respect why you did. There were, however, radiological materials still at Tuwaitha before ground forces arrived. I don't remember the exact materials, but hundreds of HAZMAT 55gal barrels were found empty, and many looted and found in homes later. The site was sealed and guarded. Medical teams monitored and tested soldiers who came in contact with the site or barrels. Some in my old unit are still tracked. The leukemia occurrence increase for the civilian population near the site increased a few years later. They found that some of the looters took the barrels emptied them and stored water and milk in them.
"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools " (Romans 1:21-22)
By the time of the Gulf War, valor awards required witness statements.
"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools " (Romans 1:21-22)
Today you see the SEALs plucking off the top recruits across the services. They should all be Army or Marines. Personally, I'd just expand the Army Rangers and put all the SEALs under them. They could have a special program for UDT-qualified operators. And the Navy could keep their own UDT specialists. Rangers, Special Forces and SEALS have different missions, with major differences. SEALs should be part of the Army special forces. No, no, no. Leave the Marines as a separate branch of the Navy, just out of tradition.
“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org
The SEALS were in the Army jump school at Benning with me. I did not go through SEAL training. They opined on how easy airborne school was compared with their BUDs and scuba school.
"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools " (Romans 1:21-22)
I don't think I could have done what they do, didn't/don't have the patience.
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
The drop rate was approximately 35 to 40% AT Benning IN 1963.
“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org
We did give SEALs a land mission which they hardly in the past performed. Their was some discovery learning early in Afghanistan. The author of "Not a good day to die" points this out. However the Navy pushed for a land fight. All about who gets the dough.
"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools " (Romans 1:21-22)
If you never read any of his posts, why did you bring him up? "The biggest mistake that libertarians make is the way they view government and private sectors. Government is the root of all evil, and the private sector is the source of all good. Libertarians have never figured out that people are the same whether in the government or in the private sector." --Paul Craig Roberts
It was from a series of conversations I've had in the past with tpaine.
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
Agreed. When I went to jump school, (Ft Campbell 1955) it really wasn't that bad. -- If memory serves, we had less than a 5% drop out rate. It may have been higher in our whole class. -- I went through with my advanced basic platoon, and we only had a few drop out. I was surprised how many dropped when we were on the line in Germany. Quite a few stopped after 10/15 jumps and got jobs in leg outfits.
Really? He's been unsuccessfully stalking me (among others) for the last 15+ years.
"The biggest mistake that libertarians make is the way they view government and private sectors. Government is the root of all evil, and the private sector is the source of all good. Libertarians have never figured out that people are the same whether in the government or in the private sector." --Paul Craig Roberts
So has he found Roscoe?
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
He already broke the SEAL code that there is no such thing as a one-man operation. He did it to grab money and fame. So exactly what is restraining him to still obey any part of it? He is lying about something big involving the bin Laden raid. And it will come out, sooner or later. Other SEALs, more respectful of the code, dispute his accounts but won't break the code. But it will come out.
Not exactly. I don't live there anymore.
"The biggest mistake that libertarians make is the way they view government and private sectors. Government is the root of all evil, and the private sector is the source of all good. Libertarians have never figured out that people are the same whether in the government or in the private sector." --Paul Craig Roberts
Really? He's been unsuccessfully stalking me (among others) for the last 15+ years. ---- Palmdale Bullshit. Misterwhite/robertpaulsen and I used to go at it quite a bit at FR, and poor roscoe defended poor paulsen with what he thought were 'snappy one liners'. --- In actuality, they were sappy. Ever since, he's been on my case with the usual crap.
Of course. The UN had put seals on them and transporting them was forbidden. Saddam was obeying the UN. Of course. They wanted the barrels to store drinking water, anticipating that the invasion would lead to water shortages, a very serious matter in a desert country. Happens especially often when you ingest contaminated food and fluids.
Which is why I would prefer to see SEALs under Army control. Or set up one single special forces division. But, other than the rare underwater demolition job, every mission that all these operators carry out are some variety of land mission. Not naval, not air. So they belong with the Army. This kind of interservice rivalry has always been expensive and destructive. Congress should take firm action and correct the situation, once and for all.
There is as much rivalry, jealousy, envy, selfishness and clamoring for power in Congress as there is in the military.
You're not cheering me up any yet. : )
There must be dozens of Roscoe's.
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
Kinda like the old Kilroy bit from WW II and Korea.
You really don't have a clue what you're discussing. SEALS and Special Forces are very different from Marines and Rangers. As but one example, the medic in these units are far better trained than registered nurses, and can even perform some surgical operations.
“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org
Ventura was never a SEAL, but was in a UDT unit.
“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestIs that so,scholar?Some say he’s a UDT (Underwater Demolition Team), and not a “SEAL,” but that’s bullshit.
#198. To: Pericles (#191)
(Edited)
An impressive accomplishment by Ventura in his pre Wrestling years regardless.
#199. To: sneakypete (#196)
And being slightly claustrophobic,you couldn't get me in one of those SOB's at gunpoint.
#200. To: Pericles (#190)
If you want a private army of killers then people with PTSD maybe good for carrying out certain assignments?
#201. To: Pericles (#195)
I pondered that upon learning the recent scrubbed mission of a SEALs team against al-Qaeda in Yemen that was thwarted by guard dogs. Would a land based team have forgotten about the use of dogs to sniff out intruders?
#202. To: Pericles (#195)
I pondered that upon learning the recent scrubbed mission of a SEALs team against al-Qaeda in Yemen that was thwarted by guard dogs. Would a land based team have forgotten about the use of dogs to sniff out intruders?
#203. To: sneakypete (#192)
Frankly,I have never understood why the SEAL teams were ever created. They don't do a single damn thing when it comes to ground combat missions that the USMC hasn't been doing for a couple of hundred years now. I can only guess that the Navy brass has always traditionally hated the USMC,and wanted to grab some of the glory for the anchor clankers.
#204. To: Palmdale (#156)
#205. To: CZ82 (#204)
So how long do you think I've been posting on political blogs anyway?
#206. To: Pericles, GarySpFc (#82)
Fit, yes. Bright?
#207. To: Pericles (#107)
In WW1 and WW2 artillery was used againsts snipers, etc. In fact that is still Russian doctrine. If a building has a sniper in it - blow up the building.
#208. To: TooConservative, GarySpFc (#110)
AFAIK, they still maintain it was brought down by a RPG (rocket-propelled grenade). That meant the guy who fired it had to be close and that meant he was in a lot of danger to fire at so many SEALs like that.
#209. To: redleghunter (#206)
When I went to Airborne school I had 5 SEALS in my stick (section). I learned the physical, mental and psychological toils of Buds training and scuba/dive school. A bag of rocks would die in those environments.
#210. To: Fred Mertz (#205)
#211. To: TooConservative, Pericles, GarySpFc (#117)
Certainly. I wouldn't be surprised if that still happens, especially in the Iraq occupation.
#212. To: TooConservative (#110)
As for your description of the sniper-scout, are they actually any braver than our ordinary infantry who go door-to-door in sweeps in a hostile town? I don't think so.
#213. To: TooConservative (#114)
You see the controversy with many SEALs saying that these SEALs writing books about the bin Laden raid are no longer welcome at SEAL reunions and hangouts. The guy who claims (disputed) that he shot bin Laden is an example. I can tell by watching his interviews that he is lying about something big but we'll probably never find out what it was.
#214. To: TooConservative, GarySpFc (#144)
But I turned against it when the lies were exposed by the findings at al-Tuwaitha, Saddam's nuclear reservation. The article is by a team from Texas Tech, probably not a Lefty bastion given it is located in Lubbock.
#215. To: sneakypete (#165)
#216. To: TooConservative (#203)
#217. To: tpaine (#209)
#218. To: redleghunter (#60)
He is alone, trying to blend in with locals and then he finds his spot sets up and waits...alone.
#219. To: tpaine (#209)
Agreed. When I went to jump school, (Ft Campbell 1955) it really wasn't that bad. -- If memory serves, we had less than a 5% drop out rate.
#220. To: TooConservative (#203)
#221. To: CZ82 (#204)
Obsessed over something I have never seen, OK whatever.
#222. To: Palmdale (#221)
#223. To: GarySpFC (#219)
The drop rate was approximately 35 to 40% AT Benning IN 1963.
#224. To: CZ82, misterwhite (#222)
It was from a series of conversations I've had in the past with tpaine.
#225. To: Palmdale (#224)
#226. To: GarySpFC (#213)
Special Ops are called the "Quiet Professionals." and he broke the code. You have mistaken his silence in certain areas as lying.
#227. To: CZ82 (#225)
So has he found Roscoe?
#228. To: Palmdale (#224)
CZ82 --- It was from a series of conversations I've had in the past with tpaine.
#229. To: redleghunter (#214)
There were, however, radiological materials still at Tuwaitha before ground forces arrived.
I don't remember the exact materials, but hundreds of HAZMAT 55gal barrels were found empty, and many looted and found in homes later. The site was sealed and guarded. Medical teams monitored and tested soldiers who came in contact with the site or barrels.
The leukemia occurrence increase for the civilian population near the site increased a few years later.
#230. To: redleghunter (#220)
However the Navy pushed for a land fight. All about who gets the dough.
#231. To: TooConservative (#230)
Congress should take firm action
#232. To: Otter (#231)
#233. To: Palmdale (#227)
#234. To: CZ82 (#233)
There must be dozens of Roscoe's.
#235. To: Pericles (#82)
Fit, yes. Bright?
#236. To: Pericles (#84)
And SEAL is nothing special. Ventura was in the same military unit before they were given the cooler and more catchy SEAL's name.
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