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Title: 'American Sniper': Prominent Libertarian Claims There Is No Difference Between Chris Kyle and Mass Murderer Adam Lanza
Source:
http://www.hngn.com/
URL Source: http://www.hngn.com/articles/65352/ ... ce-between-chris-kyle-mass.htm
Published: Jan 31, 2015
Author: ida Ahmed
Post Date: 2015-01-31 15:56:37 by Gatlin
Keywords: None
Views: 83882
Comments: 315
A prominent libertarian activist has made controversial comparisons between the late "American Sniper" protagonist Navy SEAL Chris Kyle and mass murderer Adam Lanza, who killed 28 people in a 2012 shooting spree. Lanza isn't much different from Kyle, a Navy SEAL sniper who killed 160 people during multiple combat tours in Iraq, Sheldon Richman, vice president of the Future of Freedom Foundation, said on Wednesday. Two years ago, Lanza shot his mother to death, then proceeded to a nearby Sandy Hook Elementary School and killed 20 first-graders and six staffers before committing suicide. "Excuse me, but I have trouble seeing an essential difference between what Kyle did in Iraq and what Adam Lanza did at Sandy Hook Elementary School. It certainly was not heroism," Richman wrote in an op-ed published on the Future of Freedom Foundation website and reprinted by Reason.com. "Despite what some people think, hero is not a synonym for competent government-hired killer," he added. Speaking about the widely debated Clint Eastwood's movie, Richman slammed Kyle's actions, Breitbart reported. "Let's recall some facts, which perhaps Eastwood thought were too obvious to need mention: Kyle was part of an invasion force: Americans went to Iraq. Iraq did not invade America or attack Americans. Dictator Saddam Hussein never even threatened to attack Americans," he continued. "Contrary to what the George W. Bush administration suggested, Iraq had nothing to do with the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001. Before Americans invaded Iraq, Al Qaeda was not there. Nor was it in Syria, Yemen, and Libya." "Wars of aggression, let's remember, are illegal under international law. Nazis were executed at Nuremberg for waging wars of aggression." "The only reason Kyle went to Iraq was that Bush/Cheney & Co. launched a war of aggression against the Iraqi people," he wrote. The deceased sniper cannot be deemed a hero because the American military personnel's lives that he was protecting were the aggressors themselves, according to Richman, Newsmax reported. "What American lives? The lives of American military personnel who invaded another people's country, one that was no threat to them or their fellow Americans back home." If "an invader kills someone who is trying to resist the invasion, that does not count as heroic self-defense; the invader is the aggressor. If anyone's the hero, it's the latter," he wrote. The people who Kyle killed on the battlefield only threatened Americans because "American forces waged an unprovoked war against them," he added. "No Iraqi asked to be killed by Kyle, but it sure looks as though Kyle was asking to be killed by an Iraqi. [Instead, another vet did the job.
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#77. To: GarySpFC (#58)
Kyle was a SEAL, and stupid men do not get in a Special Ops unit. Furthermore, those were confirmed kills, and not based only on Kyle's word. Besides the proven lie that he hit Jesse Ventura in a bar fight (which was a fake story to undermine a populist anti-war/Bush persona with a bona fide military pedigree) but Kyle lied about killing carjackers in Texas and that he was flown to New Orleans during Katrina and he sniped gang members from the roof of the astrodome there. All proven lies. The Astrodome is not in New Orleans. I can tell you Ventura has told some whoppers IMHO. He was never a SEAL, but went through UDT training, which really didn't compare to what SEALS experience. so suddenly this movie comes out that is more fake than the book and this re-ignites the old debate about the Bush justified war in Iraq vs those who knew the was was BS and Kyle stands for the BS of it all. Kyle very likely told some lies, but his combat record is genuine. Kyle was a high school graduate with a sports background from Texas - not known for breeding scholars and sports stars. SEALS that are athletic but not well read do better than bookworms in training I imagine. Let's not pretend SEALS are warriors AND scholars. Astrodome - superdome. In any case Kyle lied about shooting people there as part of some Blackwater type deal. I can't tell if his combat record is accurate or if the govt made him a hero because it served some propaganda aim. Let us say instead of telling lies Kyle was a confabulator and such a man makes a perfect hero to a war lacking any appeal to the American public.
"The biggest mistake that libertarians make is the way they view government and private sectors. Government is the root of all evil, and the private sector is the source of all good. Libertarians have never figured out that people are the same whether in the government or in the private sector." --Paul Craig Roberts
Read more here: http://blogs.star-telegram.com/crime_time/2013/02/did-slain- american-sniper-fatally-shoot-two-armed-robbers-in-2009.html#storylink=cpy I posted another link where Kyle recounted the incident himself. The reporter went looking for proof and found none. The reporter did not want death threats from internet fans of the war hero so said it was part of his 'legend' and facts no longer mattered. http://www.dmagazine.com/publications/d-magazine/2013/april/the-legend-of- chris-kyle-01?single=1 During the interview in which he discussed the gas station incident, he didn’t say where it happened. Most versions of the story have him in Cleburne, not far from Fort Worth. The Cleburne police chief says that if such an incident did happen, it wasn’t in his town. Every other chief of police along Highway 67 says the same thing. Public information requests produced no police reports, no coroner reports, nothing from the Texas Rangers or the Department of Public Safety. I stopped at every gas station along 67, Business 67 in Cleburne, and 10 miles in either direction. Nobody had heard of anything like that happening.
That's a pretty lame apology.
"The biggest mistake that libertarians make is the way they view government and private sectors. Government is the root of all evil, and the private sector is the source of all good. Libertarians have never figured out that people are the same whether in the government or in the private sector." --Paul Craig Roberts
That's a pretty lame apology. Why should I apologize for confusing the name of a sports arena?
Fit, yes. Bright?
Astrodome - superdome.
"The biggest mistake that libertarians make is the way they view government and private sectors. Government is the root of all evil, and the private sector is the source of all good. Libertarians have never figured out that people are the same whether in the government or in the private sector." --Paul Craig Roberts
Right there I discount the guy's rant. Actors (which is what he was a stage actor using wrestling) have stage names and many states allow candidates to run for office with nicknames, etc under which they are popularly known. To claim this is a reason he is a liar because he does not use his birth name is just laughable. And SEAL is nothing special. Ventura was in the same military unit before they were given the cooler and more catchy SEAL's name. I am not a fan of Ventura and found his conspiracy shows laughably bad - I only bring him up because he won a slander/libel lawsuit in court against Kyle proving with evidence that Kyle lied.
I don't follow what passes for sports in America so the names of the toilets Americans call stadiums sometimes slips my mind.
Bright? Not.
"The biggest mistake that libertarians make is the way they view government and private sectors. Government is the root of all evil, and the private sector is the source of all good. Libertarians have never figured out that people are the same whether in the government or in the private sector." --Paul Craig Roberts
Your opinion is not based upon facts. You're nothing but an uninformed propagandist.
Kyle's side LOST the case - their eyewitnesses were found lacking in truthfulness or facts. http://www.startribune.com/local/269042071.html July 30: Ventura wins $1.84 million: ‘Overjoyed reputation restored’ http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/ventura-verdict In attendance that night was Chris Kyle, a SEAL sniper whom I wrote about last year for the magazine, and Jesse Ventura, the former professional wrestler and Minnesota governor, who, in the nineteen-seventies, was a member of the Underwater Demolition Teams, a predecessor to the SEALs. According to Kyle, Ventura had been speaking loudly about his opposition to the Iraq War; Kyle asked Ventura to keep his opinions to himself; Ventura said the SEALs deserved to “lose a few guys,” upon which Kyle punched him and Ventura “went down.” Or so Kyle had said. Ventura says that he remembers the night quite differently, and that he neither disparaged SEALs nor, for that matter, was hit by Kyle. Two weeks ago, testifying in court, he characterized Kyle’s story as “a fabricated lie.” The dispute between Kyle and Ventura originated in January, 2012. Kyle’s memoir, “American Sniper: The Autobiography of the Most Lethal Sniper in U.S. Military History,” had just come out, and was a runaway best-seller. In the book, Kyle told his story of the night in the bar without naming Ventura, whom he referred to as “Scruff Face.” During a radio interview to promote the book, Kyle conceded that Scruff Face was, in fact, Ventura, who was wearing his beard in braids, like Jack Sparrow, at the time. Ventura sued for defamation. Ventura’s case seemed, at first, like a futile one: the credibility of a two-time Silver Star recipient pitched against that of a loudmouth former rival of Hulk Hogan with a penchant for conspiracy theories. Ventura has uttered comments that made the “lose a few” line seem plausible: he once referred to the United States as “the Fascist States of America”; he was a vocal opponent of the Iraq War and, in general, of American foreign policy; he reportedly believed that 9/11 was an inside job; he refused to salute the American flag and had moved to Mexico in protest; and he had attempted to sue the Transportation Security Administration for failing to afford him sufficient respect. Explaining his row with the T.S.A. in 2011 on the Robert Scott Bell radio show, he said, “It is not reasonable to believe that Jesse Ventura, who has been flying for thirty years, who’s an honorably discharged Navy veteran, a former mayor, and a former governor, presents a threat. And I do not want to be searched anymore.” A year after the lawsuit was filed, Kyle was murdered at a gun range by a former Marine struggling with post-traumatic stress disorder—a young man he’d tried to mentor and help. But one thing I learned about Kyle, apart from his military exploits and his generosity toward other veterans, was his propensity for embellishment. More than one person I spoke to remembered him telling a story about how he’d travelled to New Orleans in the days after Hurricane Katrina and, in a bid to establish law and order, had set up a sniper position on the roof of the Superdome and shot numerous looters. He told another story, too, about how he’d shot and killed two men at a gas station outside of Dallas after they tried to rob him—and was then allowed to flee the scene, without penalty, because a police officer recognized his contributions to the country. Both stories might have occurred. But, in numerous interviews and records requests, I turned up no verifiable evidence that they had. A successful defamation case depends on two points: that the information is false, and that it was intentionally spread in order to damage someone’s reputation. Public figures who file such a libel suit are required to show “reckless disregard for the truth.” Both sides in Minneapolis called witnesses. One of Kyle’s former SEAL teammates said that he’d heard Ventura “bashing” President Bush and making the comment about how the SEALs deserved to “lose some guys,” before being decked by Kyle. “It’s something that sticks with you,” the SEAL said. But no one else from Kyle’s side seemed to have witnessed the entire event: some heard Ventura badmouthing U.S. policies; some saw Ventura go down; some saw a melee that followed. (Kyle had said that he didn’t stick around, and took off running, after landing the punch.) A witness for Ventura, himself a former SEAL who had accompanied the former governor to the pub that night, said he neither saw Ventura get hit nor heard him speak ill of SEALs. The witness’s wife testified that she heard Ventura say, “I don’t think this war is worth one SEAL dying for,” but she felt that the comment “expressed love,” not rancor.
Texas, home of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. "The biggest mistake that libertarians make is the way they view government and private sectors. Government is the root of all evil, and the private sector is the source of all good. Libertarians have never figured out that people are the same whether in the government or in the private sector." --Paul Craig Roberts
www.infowars.com/jesse-ve...-lawsuit-over-punch-hoax/ “He never hit me, I don’t even know who he is,” said Ventura Jesse is a liar.
So if you don't follow sports in America, how can you know that American stadiums are toilets? You are either a fool or a liar.
Well, there are people that know a lot about public restrooms. "The biggest mistake that libertarians make is the way they view government and private sectors. Government is the root of all evil, and the private sector is the source of all good. Libertarians have never figured out that people are the same whether in the government or in the private sector." --Paul Craig Roberts
Populated by non-Texans and there because of LBJ.
“He never hit me, I don’t even know who he is,” said Ventura Jesse is a liar. Jesse proved Kyle was a filthy liar.
You're not very bright.
"The biggest mistake that libertarians make is the way they view government and private sectors. Government is the root of all evil, and the private sector is the source of all good. Libertarians have never figured out that people are the same whether in the government or in the private sector." --Paul Craig Roberts
www.infowars.com/jesse-ve...-lawsuit-over-punch-hoax/ “He never hit me, I don’t even know who he is,” said Ventura Jesse is a liar. You defend liars.
So if you don't follow sports in America, how can you know that American stadiums are toilets? You are either a fool or a liar. I am an American ex pat. I leave the toilet sports to you Yanks. Sunday is when 2 teams that will develop life altering brain damaged concussions will play and Americans will gorge themselves more than usual otherwise known as any given Sunday.
You failed yet again. I understand why you should not be present in this great country. You would soil it.
So?
"The biggest mistake that libertarians make is the way they view government and private sectors. Government is the root of all evil, and the private sector is the source of all good. Libertarians have never figured out that people are the same whether in the government or in the private sector." --Paul Craig Roberts
Pericles is an embarrassment. Glad he is no longer in the country. Of course, the likelihood he is lying is astronomical.
Where did he go anyway? Pakistan? "The biggest mistake that libertarians make is the way they view government and private sectors. Government is the root of all evil, and the private sector is the source of all good. Libertarians have never figured out that people are the same whether in the government or in the private sector." --Paul Craig Roberts
I don't know who would have him.
Combat veterans usually don't like the war movies. Or war in general. Fanbois who have never served are the big market for these things.
I am in America for 6 months then off to Europe for the warmer months. I am blessed.
Generally, artillery over the last century is used against enemy armies and their assets. So you might compare artillery to a classic WW II sniper but in practice it just isn't accurate.
I want to say again, I think Kyle was used by FOX owned Harper Collins books via professional ghostwriters to invent a war narrative where he is doing what FOX viewers love to see done in a war.
Generally, artillery over the last century is used against enemy armies and their assets. So you might compare artillery to a classic WW II sniper but in practice it just isn't accurate. In WW1 and WW2 artillery was used againsts snipers, etc. In fact that is still Russian doctrine. If a building has a sniper in it - blow up the building.
So are we for the 6 months you are in Europe.
I will be posting even more on here since I would be working Euro hours so you will indeed be blessed with more postings.
The so-called sniper-scout. I mentioned the differences between what people think about snipers earlier, the contrast between WW II classic snipers and the modern variants that we lump together as snipers. With regard to the targets of a sniper, there is no difference. It is still like shooting fish in a barrel or kids in a classroom. Helpless targets, completely unprepared. Like shooting a deer from a quarter-mile away. Maybe we should look at snipers from another angle. 2011 Chinook shootdown in Afghanistan "The resulting crash killed all 38 people on board—25 American special operations personnel, five United States Army National Guard and Army Reserve crewmen, seven Afghan commandos, and one Afghan interpreter—as well as a U.S. military working dog." AFAIK, they still maintain it was brought down by a RPG (rocket-propelled grenade). That meant the guy who fired it had to be close and that meant he was in a lot of danger to fire at so many SEALs like that. So the RPG guy was essentially a sniper with an RPG. Was he brave? Was he a patriot of Afghanistan and a freedom fighter? Or just a terrorist? And the SEALs were helpless victims in that Chinook. Like the kids Lanza shot were helpless victims. Like shooting a deer from a quarter-mile away with a scope. As for your description of the sniper-scout, are they actually any braver than our ordinary infantry who go door-to-door in sweeps in a hostile town? I don't think so. I think Eastwood was trying to raise some of these questions in his movie but the Right and Left are having such a food fight over it that no one is seeing it with a lot of their own biases and political grudges injected into it. Directors often have this problem with their audiences on controversial topics.
Good, I like shooting down anti-American, lefty trash.
During the Iraq invasion I read a report an Iraqi sniper killed the Abrams driver and that caused the tank to roll off a bridge and into the drink. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-03-31-tanks-crew- cover_x.htm Late Monday, U.S. Central Command in Qatar released a statement that said a preliminary investigation of the incident suggested that the tank's driver was shot and killed before the tank plunged off the unfinished bridge and into the Euphrates. Navy divers reported that the tank landed upside down, on its turret, and that the turret wedged into the muddy floor of the river. Crews train to escape from an overturned tank but not one under water. Even if the crew had been able to open a hatch, a difficult task, water would have rushed in, making escape nearly impossible.
Let me know when you do it - so far your efforts are failing. PS: I maybe anti-American (debatable) but I am not a leftist.
It certainly tends to discount his other narratives. Why he thought being a sniper against looters in NOLA would be admired is a question that was never answered. It does tell us a lot about our military and their willingness to fire on American civilians. And all these SEALs appearing on TV and writing books is against the SEAL code. SEALs are supposed to only act as a group, never as individuals. They're supposed to keep who they are and other info about the program secret. You see the controversy with many SEALs saying that these SEALs writing books about the bin Laden raid are no longer welcome at SEAL reunions and hangouts. The guy who claims (disputed) that he shot bin Laden is an example. I can tell by watching his interviews that he is lying about something big but we'll probably never find out what it was.
Not even close! Lanza shot children at point blank range inside a building.
Already have. Apparently you aren't intelligent enough to realize it. You can't tell the difference between an article's content and a reader's comment, lefty.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestThis debate is stupid and goes to show Americans were mind frakked over the Iraq war. It also does not help that post war Kyle came off as barely literate - the book of his was ghost written and probably not based on any real life events and was designed as pro Iraq war propaganda for all we know. I actually question the number of kills he did. He could have been chosen because he was not so bright and would not question his role.
#78. To: Otter (#76)
#79. To: GarySpFC (#62)
(Edited)
our link is bad.
#80. To: Pericles (#77)
Astrodome - superdome.
#81. To: Palmdale (#80)
Astrodome - superdome.
#82. To: redleghunter (#63)
SEALs are not stupid. The USN goes to great efforts to recruit the most physically fit, and bright to compete.
#83. To: Pericles (#82)
Bright?
#84. To: GarySpFC, Redleghunter, Palmdale (#67)
esse Ventura is a liar, cheat, briber and phony Navy SEAL. Even his name is phony. He is James Janos.
#85. To: Palmdale (#83)
Bright? Astrodome - superdome.
#86. To: Pericles (#85)
I don't follow what passes for sports in America
#87. To: Pericles (#77)
Texas - not known for breeding scholars and sports stars.
#88. To: GarySpFC (#68)
But Kyle isn't backing down. In a motion filed Tuesday, eight eyewitnesses provide sworn statements corroborating different parts of Kyle's account of his throwdown with Minnesota's ex-guv.
#89. To: Otter (#87)
#90. To: Pericles (#88)
#91. To: Pericles (#85)
I don't follow what passes for sports in America so the names of the toilets Americans call stadiums sometimes slips my mind.
#92. To: Otter (#91)
So if you don't follow sports in America, how can you know that American stadiums are toilets?
#93. To: Palmdale (#89)
Texas, home of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.
#94. To: Otter (#90)
www.infowars.com/jesse-ve...-lawsuit-over-punch-hoax/
#95. To: Pericles (#93)
Populated by non-Texans
#96. To: Pericles (#94)
#97. To: Otter, Palmdale (#91)
I don't follow what passes for sports in America so the names of the toilets Americans call stadiums sometimes slips my mind.
#98. To: Pericles (#97)
I am an American ex pat.
#99. To: Pericles (#97)
I am an American ex pat.
#100. To: Palmdale (#92)
#101. To: Otter (#100)
Glad he is no longer in the country.
#102. To: Palmdale (#101)
Where did he go anyway? Pakistan?
#103. To: redleghunter (#53)
I for one probably won't see the movie. Had quite my fill of the real motion picture and have the six hash marks to prove it.
#104. To: Otter, Palmdale (#102)
#105. To: Pericles (#57)
I don't recall which nation's soldier said it or if it was in WW1 or WW2 but artillery spotters boasted in history book I read that they were snipers with larger guns.
#106. To: TooConservative (#103)
Combat veterans usually don't like the war movies. Or war in general. Fanbois who have never served are the big market for these things.
#107. To: TooConservative (#105)
I don't recall which nation's soldier said it or if it was in WW1 or WW2 but artillery spotters boasted in history book I read that they were snipers with larger guns.
#108. To: Pericles (#104)
I am blessed.
#109. To: Otter (#108)
(Edited)
I am blessed. So are we for the 6 months you are in Europe.
#110. To: redleghunter (#60)
Here's a typical scenario. The team's mission is to conduct a mission in a constrained urban area. Strike time is 2200 hours. Sniper leaves alone with minimal ammunition and communications hours if not the day or night before to recon his site. He is alone, trying to blend in with locals and then he finds his spot sets up and waits...alone. No one covers him, he could be under observation thus putting the team at risk. The team shows up within his field of view or on comms. Sniper provides overwatch. If he shoots, he has to move, thus exposing himself.
A lot braver than the internet jockies blathering about elementary school murderers. I mean it's not like flying large passenger airplanes into skyscrapers.
#111. To: Pericles (#109)
#112. To: TooConservative (#110)
So the RPG guy was essentially a sniper with an RPG. Was he brave? Was he a patriot of Afghanistan and a freedom fighter? Or just a terrorist?
#113. To: Otter (#111)
Good, I like shooting down anti-American, lefty trash.
#114. To: Pericles (#88)
But one thing I learned about Kyle, apart from his military exploits and his generosity toward other veterans, was his propensity for embellishment. More than one person I spoke to remembered him telling a story about how he’d travelled to New Orleans in the days after Hurricane Katrina and, in a bid to establish law and order, had set up a sniper position on the roof of the Superdome and shot numerous looters. He told another story, too, about how he’d shot and killed two men at a gas station outside of Dallas after they tried to rob him—and was then allowed to flee the scene, without penalty, because a police officer recognized his contributions to the country. Both stories might have occurred. But, in numerous interviews and records requests, I turned up no verifiable evidence that they had.
#115. To: TooConservative (#110)
Like the kids Lanza shot were helpless victims. Like shooting a deer from a quarter-mile away with a scope.
#116. To: Pericles (#113)
Let me know when you do it -
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