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Title: 'American Sniper': Prominent Libertarian Claims There Is No Difference Between Chris Kyle and Mass Murderer Adam Lanza
Source:
http://www.hngn.com/
URL Source: http://www.hngn.com/articles/65352/ ... ce-between-chris-kyle-mass.htm
Published: Jan 31, 2015
Author: ida Ahmed
Post Date: 2015-01-31 15:56:37 by Gatlin
Keywords: None
Views: 86605
Comments: 315
A prominent libertarian activist has made controversial comparisons between the late "American Sniper" protagonist Navy SEAL Chris Kyle and mass murderer Adam Lanza, who killed 28 people in a 2012 shooting spree. Lanza isn't much different from Kyle, a Navy SEAL sniper who killed 160 people during multiple combat tours in Iraq, Sheldon Richman, vice president of the Future of Freedom Foundation, said on Wednesday. Two years ago, Lanza shot his mother to death, then proceeded to a nearby Sandy Hook Elementary School and killed 20 first-graders and six staffers before committing suicide. "Excuse me, but I have trouble seeing an essential difference between what Kyle did in Iraq and what Adam Lanza did at Sandy Hook Elementary School. It certainly was not heroism," Richman wrote in an op-ed published on the Future of Freedom Foundation website and reprinted by Reason.com. "Despite what some people think, hero is not a synonym for competent government-hired killer," he added. Speaking about the widely debated Clint Eastwood's movie, Richman slammed Kyle's actions, Breitbart reported. "Let's recall some facts, which perhaps Eastwood thought were too obvious to need mention: Kyle was part of an invasion force: Americans went to Iraq. Iraq did not invade America or attack Americans. Dictator Saddam Hussein never even threatened to attack Americans," he continued. "Contrary to what the George W. Bush administration suggested, Iraq had nothing to do with the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001. Before Americans invaded Iraq, Al Qaeda was not there. Nor was it in Syria, Yemen, and Libya." "Wars of aggression, let's remember, are illegal under international law. Nazis were executed at Nuremberg for waging wars of aggression." "The only reason Kyle went to Iraq was that Bush/Cheney & Co. launched a war of aggression against the Iraqi people," he wrote. The deceased sniper cannot be deemed a hero because the American military personnel's lives that he was protecting were the aggressors themselves, according to Richman, Newsmax reported. "What American lives? The lives of American military personnel who invaded another people's country, one that was no threat to them or their fellow Americans back home." If "an invader kills someone who is trying to resist the invasion, that does not count as heroic self-defense; the invader is the aggressor. If anyone's the hero, it's the latter," he wrote. The people who Kyle killed on the battlefield only threatened Americans because "American forces waged an unprovoked war against them," he added. "No Iraqi asked to be killed by Kyle, but it sure looks as though Kyle was asking to be killed by an Iraqi. [Instead, another vet did the job.
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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 60.
#5. To: Gatlin (#0)
The victims of both probably felt about the same about being murdered by them. Kyle was much braver though in that he had a lot of courage to get into position to take his shots. So Kyle's victims could take pride in a much braver and more professional murder. Otherwise, dead is still dead. Killed helplessly against hopeless odds (a sniper at a distance or a gunman in an elementary classroom) is still getting killed helplessly. But how brave is it to shoot people at a distance? About as sporting as shooting a deer with a scoped rifle. Or shooting fish in a barrel. Or shooting 3rd graders at their school desks. I think this has become a Left/Right pissing match which explains how the controversy keeps going. The rest of the country is sanely trying to ignore it.
I think this has become a Left/Right pissing match which explains how the controversy keeps going. The rest of the country is sanely trying to ignore it. Yep, the lefties on this site are busily trying to make it a divisive issue. And killing people from a distance has always been a big part of war. Brave men have been defending this country, in exactly that way, since the Revolution. Have you served? If you have, you too share in the killing of men from a distance.
I don't see why people are all upset over killing someone at 1,000 yds when you can kill them from thousands of miles away a couple hundred thousand at a time.
The argument is over whether it is a heroic act, whether it is an example of warrior courage in the face of personal danger. There is a subtext of Iraq being a phony war, at least with the Left. That is the ax they are trying to grind.
Well it does take skill. And yes you have to have brass bells to be an SF sniper. Here's a typical scenario. The team's mission is to conduct a mission in a constrained urban area. Strike time is 2200 hours. Sniper leaves alone with minimal ammunition and communications hours if not the day or night before to recon his site. He is alone, trying to blend in with locals and then he finds his spot sets up and waits...alone. No one covers him, he could be under observation thus putting the team at risk. The team shows up within his field of view or on comms. Sniper provides overwatch. If he shoots, he has to move, thus exposing himself. To be honest I would rather be in an F16 dropping PGMs from 16k ft than have my 4th point of contact out in the wind. So they are brave and know some who are snipers in the Army and Marines. A lot braver than the internet jockies blathering about elementary school murderers. I mean it's not like flying large passenger airplanes into skyscrapers.
#61. To: redleghunter (#60)
As opposed to a few of these on the thread:
The so-called sniper-scout. I mentioned the differences between what people think about snipers earlier, the contrast between WW II classic snipers and the modern variants that we lump together as snipers. With regard to the targets of a sniper, there is no difference. It is still like shooting fish in a barrel or kids in a classroom. Helpless targets, completely unprepared. Like shooting a deer from a quarter-mile away. Maybe we should look at snipers from another angle. 2011 Chinook shootdown in Afghanistan "The resulting crash killed all 38 people on board—25 American special operations personnel, five United States Army National Guard and Army Reserve crewmen, seven Afghan commandos, and one Afghan interpreter—as well as a U.S. military working dog." AFAIK, they still maintain it was brought down by a RPG (rocket-propelled grenade). That meant the guy who fired it had to be close and that meant he was in a lot of danger to fire at so many SEALs like that. So the RPG guy was essentially a sniper with an RPG. Was he brave? Was he a patriot of Afghanistan and a freedom fighter? Or just a terrorist? And the SEALs were helpless victims in that Chinook. Like the kids Lanza shot were helpless victims. Like shooting a deer from a quarter-mile away with a scope. As for your description of the sniper-scout, are they actually any braver than our ordinary infantry who go door-to-door in sweeps in a hostile town? I don't think so. I think Eastwood was trying to raise some of these questions in his movie but the Right and Left are having such a food fight over it that no one is seeing it with a lot of their own biases and political grudges injected into it. Directors often have this problem with their audiences on controversial topics.
Not really,and especially not in urban areas. They always have spotters with them,and in urban areas their command always knows where they are located and are in constant communication with them. If their "hide" is discovered and they are attacked,command will send out a force to rescue them. BTW,I should confess right here that I am one of those people who see sniping as a necessary evil. I am glad there are other people who are willing to do the job,but I'm not one of them.
I don't think I could have done what they do, didn't/don't have the patience.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestA prominent libertarian activist has made controversial comparisons between the late "American Sniper" protagonist Navy SEAL Chris Kyle and mass murderer Adam Lanza, who killed 28 people in a 2012 shooting spree.
#7. To: TooConservative (#5)
--- how brave is it to shoot people at a distance? ----
#13. To: tpaine (#7)
And killing people from a distance has always been a big part of war.
#18. To: CZ82 (#13)
I don't see why people are all upset over killing someone at 1,000 yds when you can kill them from thousands of miles away a couple hundred thousand at a time.
#60. To: TooConservative, CZ82, GarySpFc (#18)
The argument is over whether it is a heroic act, whether it is an example of warrior courage in the face of personal danger.
Replies to Comment # 60. And yes you have to have brass bells to be an SF sniper.
#110. To: redleghunter (#60)
Here's a typical scenario. The team's mission is to conduct a mission in a constrained urban area. Strike time is 2200 hours. Sniper leaves alone with minimal ammunition and communications hours if not the day or night before to recon his site. He is alone, trying to blend in with locals and then he finds his spot sets up and waits...alone. No one covers him, he could be under observation thus putting the team at risk. The team shows up within his field of view or on comms. Sniper provides overwatch. If he shoots, he has to move, thus exposing himself.
A lot braver than the internet jockies blathering about elementary school murderers. I mean it's not like flying large passenger airplanes into skyscrapers.
#158. To: redleghunter (#60)
(Edited)
Sniper leaves alone with minimal ammunition and communications hours if not the day or night before to recon his site. He is alone, trying to blend in with locals and then he finds his spot sets up and waits...alone.
#218. To: redleghunter (#60)
He is alone, trying to blend in with locals and then he finds his spot sets up and waits...alone.
End Trace Mode for Comment # 60.
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