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Title: 'American Sniper': Prominent Libertarian Claims There Is No Difference Between Chris Kyle and Mass Murderer Adam Lanza
Source: http://www.hngn.com/
URL Source: http://www.hngn.com/articles/65352/ ... ce-between-chris-kyle-mass.htm
Published: Jan 31, 2015
Author: ida Ahmed
Post Date: 2015-01-31 15:56:37 by Gatlin
Keywords: None
Views: 89991
Comments: 315

A prominent libertarian activist has made controversial comparisons between the late "American Sniper" protagonist Navy SEAL Chris Kyle and mass murderer Adam Lanza, who killed 28 people in a 2012 shooting spree.

Lanza isn't much different from Kyle, a Navy SEAL sniper who killed 160 people during multiple combat tours in Iraq, Sheldon Richman, vice president of the Future of Freedom Foundation, said on Wednesday. Two years ago, Lanza shot his mother to death, then proceeded to a nearby Sandy Hook Elementary School and killed 20 first-graders and six staffers before committing suicide.

"Excuse me, but I have trouble seeing an essential difference between what Kyle did in Iraq and what Adam Lanza did at Sandy Hook Elementary School. It certainly was not heroism," Richman wrote in an op-ed published on the Future of Freedom Foundation website and reprinted by Reason.com.

"Despite what some people think, hero is not a synonym for competent government-hired killer," he added.

Speaking about the widely debated Clint Eastwood's movie, Richman slammed Kyle's actions, Breitbart reported.

"Let's recall some facts, which perhaps Eastwood thought were too obvious to need mention: Kyle was part of an invasion force: Americans went to Iraq. Iraq did not invade America or attack Americans. Dictator Saddam Hussein never even threatened to attack Americans," he continued. "Contrary to what the George W. Bush administration suggested, Iraq had nothing to do with the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001. Before Americans invaded Iraq, Al Qaeda was not there. Nor was it in Syria, Yemen, and Libya."

"Wars of aggression, let's remember, are illegal under international law. Nazis were executed at Nuremberg for waging wars of aggression."

"The only reason Kyle went to Iraq was that Bush/Cheney & Co. launched a war of aggression against the Iraqi people," he wrote.

The deceased sniper cannot be deemed a hero because the American military personnel's lives that he was protecting  were the aggressors themselves, according to Richman, Newsmax reported.

"What American lives? The lives of American military personnel who invaded another people's country, one that was no threat to them or their fellow Americans back home."

If "an invader kills someone who is trying to resist the invasion, that does not count as heroic self-defense; the invader is the aggressor. If anyone's the hero, it's the latter," he wrote.

The people who Kyle killed on the battlefield only threatened Americans because "American forces waged an unprovoked war against them," he added. "No Iraqi asked to be killed by Kyle, but it sure looks as though Kyle was asking to be killed by an Iraqi. [Instead, another vet did the job.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 292.

#5. To: Gatlin (#0)

A prominent libertarian activist has made controversial comparisons between the late "American Sniper" protagonist Navy SEAL Chris Kyle and mass murderer Adam Lanza, who killed 28 people in a 2012 shooting spree.

The victims of both probably felt about the same about being murdered by them.

Kyle was much braver though in that he had a lot of courage to get into position to take his shots. So Kyle's victims could take pride in a much braver and more professional murder. Otherwise, dead is still dead. Killed helplessly against hopeless odds (a sniper at a distance or a gunman in an elementary classroom) is still getting killed helplessly.

But how brave is it to shoot people at a distance? About as sporting as shooting a deer with a scoped rifle. Or shooting fish in a barrel. Or shooting 3rd graders at their school desks.

I think this has become a Left/Right pissing match which explains how the controversy keeps going. The rest of the country is sanely trying to ignore it.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-01-31   16:55:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: TooConservative (#5)

--- how brave is it to shoot people at a distance? ----

I think this has become a Left/Right pissing match which explains how the controversy keeps going. The rest of the country is sanely trying to ignore it.

Yep, the lefties on this site are busily trying to make it a divisive issue.

And killing people from a distance has always been a big part of war. Brave men have been defending this country, in exactly that way, since the Revolution. Have you served?

If you have, you too share in the killing of men from a distance.

tpaine  posted on  2015-01-31   17:14:23 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: tpaine (#7)

And killing people from a distance has always been a big part of war. Brave men have been defending this country, in exactly that way, since the Revolution.

But killing people from a distance with a $50,000 rifle is actually no braver than shooting up a classroom of helpless little kids.

How do you differentiate between these two scenarios of shooting fish in a barrel and knowing they can't shoot back? Because one guy has a uniform and is following the orders of one of our loathsome and cowardly presidents (who don't ever serve in the military either).

BTW, Eastwood says it is an antiwar movie. I take him at his word. What we see instead is the Right embracing it as a totally pro-war and pro-sniper movie which Eastwood says it isn't. The Left is merely annoyed that the Right is happy about something so they picked a fight over this movie, apparently ignoring Eastwood and adopting the Right's view that it is a pro-war and pro-sniper flick.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-01-31   18:18:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: TooConservative (#11)

Yep, the lefties on this site are busily trying to make it a divisive issue.

And killing people from a distance has always been a big part of war. Brave men have been defending this country, in exactly that way, since the Revolution. Have you served?

If you have, you too share in the killing of men from a distance.

But killing people from a distance with a $50,000 rifle is actually no braver than shooting up a classroom of helpless little kids.

To compare men doing their duty in war, -- with a crazy murderer of children is an act of total zealotry.

How do you differentiate between these two scenarios of shooting fish in a barrel and knowing they can't shoot back?

How weird that you don't know of the use of counter snipers in war. If memory serves, military snipers have a very high casualty rate.

Because one guy has a uniform and is following the orders of one of our loathsome and cowardly presidents (who don't ever serve in the military either). ---- BTW, Eastwood says it is an antiwar movie. I take him at his word. What we see instead is the Right embracing it as a totally pro-war and pro-sniper movie which Eastwood says it isn't. The Left is merely annoyed that tokhe Right is happy about something so they picked a fight over this movie, apparently ignoring Eastwood and adopting the Right's view that it is a pro-war and pro- sniper flick.

So? I don't quite understand your zealotry about the issue. Can you explain your over reaction?

tpaine  posted on  2015-01-31   19:07:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: tpaine (#26)

And killing people from a distance has always been a big part of war. Brave men have been defending this country, in exactly that way, since the Revolution. Have you served?

If you have, you too share in the killing of men from a distance.

Are you actually quoting yourself? Repetition doesn't improve the merits of these non-sequiturs.

To compare men doing their duty in war, -- with a crazy murderer of children is an act of total zealotry.

No, it's not. You are shooting helpless people who can't defend themselves, who never even know you shot at them until your bullet kills them. How can that be an act of bravery? By that standard, yes, Adam Lanza would be brave. By that standard, the Tsarnaev brothers were brave.

There is also a shifting standard as to what constitutes a sniper. In WW II, snipers were behind enemy lines, taking long shots and escaping, mostly targeting high-ranking officers if they could.

In the modern military, you have varieties of snipers. Snipers that shoot from aircraft, snipers that shoot from rooftops in urban warfare. And also snipers who still take the traditional long shots at high-value enemy soldiers. More often, you have what are called sniper-scouts who enter a battlefield early and provide intel and laser targeting and prep work for regular infantry to arrive and then help protect them as they go house-to-house.

So "sniper" can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people. When I say "sniper", I am generally referring to the classic sniper, not the modern versions that have a lot of other roles in the military.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-01-31   19:23:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: TooConservative (#31)

So "sniper" can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people.

I don't recall which nation's soldier said it or if it was in WW1 or WW2 but artillery spotters boasted in history book I read that they were snipers with larger guns.

Pericles  posted on  2015-02-01   0:01:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#105. To: Pericles (#57)

I don't recall which nation's soldier said it or if it was in WW1 or WW2 but artillery spotters boasted in history book I read that they were snipers with larger guns.

Generally, artillery over the last century is used against enemy armies and their assets. So you might compare artillery to a classic WW II sniper but in practice it just isn't accurate.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-01   4:08:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#107. To: TooConservative (#105)

I don't recall which nation's soldier said it or if it was in WW1 or WW2 but artillery spotters boasted in history book I read that they were snipers with larger guns.

Generally, artillery over the last century is used against enemy armies and their assets. So you might compare artillery to a classic WW II sniper but in practice it just isn't accurate.

In WW1 and WW2 artillery was used againsts snipers, etc. In fact that is still Russian doctrine. If a building has a sniper in it - blow up the building.

Pericles  posted on  2015-02-01   4:12:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#117. To: Pericles, redleghunter (#107)

In WW1 and WW2 artillery was used againsts snipers, etc. In fact that is still Russian doctrine. If a building has a sniper in it - blow up the building.

Certainly. I wouldn't be surprised if that still happens, especially in the Iraq occupation.

But a military sniper is a military asset and few object to using snipers or choppers or artillery or any other means to wipe out an enemy sniper.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-01   4:48:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#211. To: TooConservative, Pericles, GarySpFc (#117)

Certainly. I wouldn't be surprised if that still happens, especially in the Iraq occupation.

But a military sniper is a military asset and few object to using snipers or choppers or artillery or any other means to wipe out an enemy sniper.

Yes artillery is now considered precision fires. Most of our munitions are GPS or laser guided. The munitions can also be adjusted for yield.

In Iraq in one city we had a sniper problem. We used a low yield 155mm round to kill the sniper on top of a building without damaging the apartments below the roof.

Jihadis use civilian population centers to wage their war so we have to find the weapon with the least collateral effect. And in some cases that would be a sniper.

redleghunter  posted on  2015-02-01   15:16:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#262. To: redleghunter (#211)

In Iraq in one city we had a sniper problem. We used a low yield 155mm round to kill the sniper on top of a building without damaging the apartments below the roof.

I'll be damned! In VN recon teams hated calling in the 155's and the 175's for what was laughingly called "close combat support" because "close" was a VERY relative term back then. We didn't call it in unless we really,really needed it because we were being over ran. There could be more than 50 meters variation from shot to shot as the barrels heated up.

Good to see they have solved THAT problem!

sneakypete  posted on  2015-02-01   19:48:11 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#292. To: sneakypete (#262)

Yes even when I was a 2LT we still learned the Vietnam style final protective fire FPF technique.

redleghunter  posted on  2015-02-01   23:41:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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