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Title: 'American Sniper': Prominent Libertarian Claims There Is No Difference Between Chris Kyle and Mass Murderer Adam Lanza
Source: http://www.hngn.com/
URL Source: http://www.hngn.com/articles/65352/ ... ce-between-chris-kyle-mass.htm
Published: Jan 31, 2015
Author: ida Ahmed
Post Date: 2015-01-31 15:56:37 by Gatlin
Keywords: None
Views: 86677
Comments: 315

A prominent libertarian activist has made controversial comparisons between the late "American Sniper" protagonist Navy SEAL Chris Kyle and mass murderer Adam Lanza, who killed 28 people in a 2012 shooting spree.

Lanza isn't much different from Kyle, a Navy SEAL sniper who killed 160 people during multiple combat tours in Iraq, Sheldon Richman, vice president of the Future of Freedom Foundation, said on Wednesday. Two years ago, Lanza shot his mother to death, then proceeded to a nearby Sandy Hook Elementary School and killed 20 first-graders and six staffers before committing suicide.

"Excuse me, but I have trouble seeing an essential difference between what Kyle did in Iraq and what Adam Lanza did at Sandy Hook Elementary School. It certainly was not heroism," Richman wrote in an op-ed published on the Future of Freedom Foundation website and reprinted by Reason.com.

"Despite what some people think, hero is not a synonym for competent government-hired killer," he added.

Speaking about the widely debated Clint Eastwood's movie, Richman slammed Kyle's actions, Breitbart reported.

"Let's recall some facts, which perhaps Eastwood thought were too obvious to need mention: Kyle was part of an invasion force: Americans went to Iraq. Iraq did not invade America or attack Americans. Dictator Saddam Hussein never even threatened to attack Americans," he continued. "Contrary to what the George W. Bush administration suggested, Iraq had nothing to do with the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001. Before Americans invaded Iraq, Al Qaeda was not there. Nor was it in Syria, Yemen, and Libya."

"Wars of aggression, let's remember, are illegal under international law. Nazis were executed at Nuremberg for waging wars of aggression."

"The only reason Kyle went to Iraq was that Bush/Cheney & Co. launched a war of aggression against the Iraqi people," he wrote.

The deceased sniper cannot be deemed a hero because the American military personnel's lives that he was protecting  were the aggressors themselves, according to Richman, Newsmax reported.

"What American lives? The lives of American military personnel who invaded another people's country, one that was no threat to them or their fellow Americans back home."

If "an invader kills someone who is trying to resist the invasion, that does not count as heroic self-defense; the invader is the aggressor. If anyone's the hero, it's the latter," he wrote.

The people who Kyle killed on the battlefield only threatened Americans because "American forces waged an unprovoked war against them," he added. "No Iraqi asked to be killed by Kyle, but it sure looks as though Kyle was asking to be killed by an Iraqi. [Instead, another vet did the job.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 246.

#5. To: Gatlin (#0)

A prominent libertarian activist has made controversial comparisons between the late "American Sniper" protagonist Navy SEAL Chris Kyle and mass murderer Adam Lanza, who killed 28 people in a 2012 shooting spree.

The victims of both probably felt about the same about being murdered by them.

Kyle was much braver though in that he had a lot of courage to get into position to take his shots. So Kyle's victims could take pride in a much braver and more professional murder. Otherwise, dead is still dead. Killed helplessly against hopeless odds (a sniper at a distance or a gunman in an elementary classroom) is still getting killed helplessly.

But how brave is it to shoot people at a distance? About as sporting as shooting a deer with a scoped rifle. Or shooting fish in a barrel. Or shooting 3rd graders at their school desks.

I think this has become a Left/Right pissing match which explains how the controversy keeps going. The rest of the country is sanely trying to ignore it.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-01-31   16:55:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: TooConservative (#5) (Edited)

This debate is stupid and goes to show Americans were mind frakked over the Iraq war. It also does not help that post war Kyle came off as barely literate - the book of his was ghost written and probably not based on any real life events and was designed as pro Iraq war propaganda for all we know. I actually question the number of kills he did. He could have been chosen because he was not so bright and would not question his role.

Besides the proven lie that he hit Jesse Ventura in a bar fight (which was a fake story to undermine a populist anti-war/Bush persona with a bona fide military pedigree) but Kyle lied about killing carjackers in Texas and that he was flown to New Orleans during Katrina and he sniped gang members from the roof of the astrodome there. All proven lies.

so suddenly this movie comes out that is more fake than the book and this re-ignites the old debate about the Bush justified war in Iraq vs those who knew the was was BS and Kyle stands for the BS of it all.

Pericles  posted on  2015-01-31   22:46:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: Pericles (#43)

those who knew the was was BS and Kyle stands for the BS of it all

I don’t even know who he is,” said Ventura Referring to Kyle. Sounds like more Jesse BS to me.

Otter  posted on  2015-01-31   22:54:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: Otter (#44)

hose who knew the was was BS and Kyle stands for the BS of it all

I don’t even know who he is,” said Ventura Referring to Kyle. Sounds like more Jesse BS to me.

Ventura sued Kyle's estate and the court found Kyle lied to a great degree and Ventura was awarded almost $2 million. So, no, Kyle is a proven liar in a court of law.

Pericles  posted on  2015-01-31   23:28:10 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: Pericles (#48)

Ventura sued Kyle's estate

Even though Jesse claimed he didn't know Kyle. I guess Jesse is a liar also.

Otter  posted on  2015-01-31   23:36:51 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: Otter (#50) (Edited)

Even though Jesse claimed he didn't know Kyle. I guess Jesse is a liar also.

What do you mean by "know" like he heard of him or he knew him intimately? And how is that relative? I mean find the quote so we can all read it in context.

Kyle lied about killing people in New Orleans in Katrina. He lied about killing carjacking Mexicans in Texans. All these kills covered up by the govt and grateful cops so no evidence can exist.

Pericles  posted on  2015-01-31   23:41:11 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: Pericles, Redleghunter, Palmdale (#52)

From another site;

http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2012/08/jesse_ventura_got_his_ass_kick ed_in_a_california_bar_fellow_seal_says.php

Ventura is so upset over that passage, he's sued Kyle in federal court for defamation, misappropriation of his likeness, and unjust enrichment. The suit says "The entire story about a confrontation with and physical assault and battery of Governor Ventura was false and defamatory." A judge is scheduled to hear arguments on October 10.

But Kyle isn't backing down. In a motion filed Tuesday, eight eyewitnesses provide sworn statements corroborating different parts of Kyle's account of his throwdown with Minnesota's ex-guv.

In one of them, SEAL Jeremiah Dinnell says Ventura was "being a jackass."

"That's when Chris punched him," Dinnell wrote. "All of us wanted to. Chris was just the first one to pop him."

In the Capitol, at bars, or in the squared-circle -- no matter the context, Jesse is apparently just a tough guy to get along with.

GarySpFC  posted on  2015-02-01   1:03:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: GarySpFC (#68)

But Kyle isn't backing down. In a motion filed Tuesday, eight eyewitnesses provide sworn statements corroborating different parts of Kyle's account of his throwdown with Minnesota's ex-guv.

Kyle's side LOST the case - their eyewitnesses were found lacking in truthfulness or facts.

http://www.startribune.com/local/269042071.html

July 30: Ventura wins $1.84 million: ‘Overjoyed reputation restored’

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/ventura-verdict

In attendance that night was Chris Kyle, a SEAL sniper whom I wrote about last year for the magazine, and Jesse Ventura, the former professional wrestler and Minnesota governor, who, in the nineteen-seventies, was a member of the Underwater Demolition Teams, a predecessor to the SEALs. According to Kyle, Ventura had been speaking loudly about his opposition to the Iraq War; Kyle asked Ventura to keep his opinions to himself; Ventura said the SEALs deserved to “lose a few guys,” upon which Kyle punched him and Ventura “went down.”

Or so Kyle had said. Ventura says that he remembers the night quite differently, and that he neither disparaged SEALs nor, for that matter, was hit by Kyle. Two weeks ago, testifying in court, he characterized Kyle’s story as “a fabricated lie.” The dispute between Kyle and Ventura originated in January, 2012. Kyle’s memoir, “American Sniper: The Autobiography of the Most Lethal Sniper in U.S. Military History,” had just come out, and was a runaway best-seller. In the book, Kyle told his story of the night in the bar without naming Ventura, whom he referred to as “Scruff Face.” During a radio interview to promote the book, Kyle conceded that Scruff Face was, in fact, Ventura, who was wearing his beard in braids, like Jack Sparrow, at the time. Ventura sued for defamation.

Ventura’s case seemed, at first, like a futile one: the credibility of a two-time Silver Star recipient pitched against that of a loudmouth former rival of Hulk Hogan with a penchant for conspiracy theories. Ventura has uttered comments that made the “lose a few” line seem plausible: he once referred to the United States as “the Fascist States of America”; he was a vocal opponent of the Iraq War and, in general, of American foreign policy; he reportedly believed that 9/11 was an inside job; he refused to salute the American flag and had moved to Mexico in protest; and he had attempted to sue the Transportation Security Administration for failing to afford him sufficient respect. Explaining his row with the T.S.A. in 2011 on the Robert Scott Bell radio show, he said, “It is not reasonable to believe that Jesse Ventura, who has been flying for thirty years, who’s an honorably discharged Navy veteran, a former mayor, and a former governor, presents a threat. And I do not want to be searched anymore.”

A year after the lawsuit was filed, Kyle was murdered at a gun range by a former Marine struggling with post-traumatic stress disorder—a young man he’d tried to mentor and help.

But one thing I learned about Kyle, apart from his military exploits and his generosity toward other veterans, was his propensity for embellishment. More than one person I spoke to remembered him telling a story about how he’d travelled to New Orleans in the days after Hurricane Katrina and, in a bid to establish law and order, had set up a sniper position on the roof of the Superdome and shot numerous looters. He told another story, too, about how he’d shot and killed two men at a gas station outside of Dallas after they tried to rob him—and was then allowed to flee the scene, without penalty, because a police officer recognized his contributions to the country. Both stories might have occurred. But, in numerous interviews and records requests, I turned up no verifiable evidence that they had.

A successful defamation case depends on two points: that the information is false, and that it was intentionally spread in order to damage someone’s reputation. Public figures who file such a libel suit are required to show “reckless disregard for the truth.” Both sides in Minneapolis called witnesses. One of Kyle’s former SEAL teammates said that he’d heard Ventura “bashing” President Bush and making the comment about how the SEALs deserved to “lose some guys,” before being decked by Kyle. “It’s something that sticks with you,” the SEAL said. But no one else from Kyle’s side seemed to have witnessed the entire event: some heard Ventura badmouthing U.S. policies; some saw Ventura go down; some saw a melee that followed. (Kyle had said that he didn’t stick around, and took off running, after landing the punch.) A witness for Ventura, himself a former SEAL who had accompanied the former governor to the pub that night, said he neither saw Ventura get hit nor heard him speak ill of SEALs. The witness’s wife testified that she heard Ventura say, “I don’t think this war is worth one SEAL dying for,” but she felt that the comment “expressed love,” not rancor.

Pericles  posted on  2015-02-01   3:07:07 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#114. To: Pericles (#88)

But one thing I learned about Kyle, apart from his military exploits and his generosity toward other veterans, was his propensity for embellishment. More than one person I spoke to remembered him telling a story about how he’d travelled to New Orleans in the days after Hurricane Katrina and, in a bid to establish law and order, had set up a sniper position on the roof of the Superdome and shot numerous looters. He told another story, too, about how he’d shot and killed two men at a gas station outside of Dallas after they tried to rob him—and was then allowed to flee the scene, without penalty, because a police officer recognized his contributions to the country. Both stories might have occurred. But, in numerous interviews and records requests, I turned up no verifiable evidence that they had.

It certainly tends to discount his other narratives. Why he thought being a sniper against looters in NOLA would be admired is a question that was never answered. It does tell us a lot about our military and their willingness to fire on American civilians.

And all these SEALs appearing on TV and writing books is against the SEAL code. SEALs are supposed to only act as a group, never as individuals. They're supposed to keep who they are and other info about the program secret.

You see the controversy with many SEALs saying that these SEALs writing books about the bin Laden raid are no longer welcome at SEAL reunions and hangouts. The guy who claims (disputed) that he shot bin Laden is an example. I can tell by watching his interviews that he is lying about something big but we'll probably never find out what it was.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-01   4:44:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#213. To: TooConservative (#114)

You see the controversy with many SEALs saying that these SEALs writing books about the bin Laden raid are no longer welcome at SEAL reunions and hangouts. The guy who claims (disputed) that he shot bin Laden is an example. I can tell by watching his interviews that he is lying about something big but we'll probably never find out what it was.

Special Ops are called the "Quiet Professionals." and he broke the code. You have mistaken his silence in certain areas as lying.

GarySpFC  posted on  2015-02-01   15:25:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#226. To: GarySpFC (#213)

Special Ops are called the "Quiet Professionals." and he broke the code. You have mistaken his silence in certain areas as lying.

He already broke the SEAL code that there is no such thing as a one-man operation. He did it to grab money and fame.

So exactly what is restraining him to still obey any part of it?

He is lying about something big involving the bin Laden raid. And it will come out, sooner or later. Other SEALs, more respectful of the code, dispute his accounts but won't break the code. But it will come out.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-01   16:08:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#241. To: TooConservative (#226)

He already broke the SEAL code that there is no such thing as a one-man operation. He did it to grab money and fame.

The "Quiet Professionals Code" is the same for SF and SEALS. BTW, He donated all monies from his book.

GarySpFC  posted on  2015-02-01   17:24:46 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#242. To: GarySpFC (#241)

BTW, He donated all monies from his book.

It was an unauthorized book. His SEAL colleagues, inasmuch as they spoke, disputed his account and said he shouldn't have written it. Not one defended his book.

And there are various ways to profit from something. I would have to see proof that he did not profit indirectly from the book before I believe it.

Even so, he seems to have launched a very lucrative career as a speaker, trading on his reputation as bin Laden's killer. Why else would anyone want him?

Fees range from $10K to $75K and up. You can book him to speak at your event here.

He sure seems to be intent on cashing in on his fame.

And I think it is obvious he is lying about something. Something big.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-01   17:35:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#244. To: TooConservative (#242)

His SEAL colleagues, inasmuch as they spoke, disputed his account and said he shouldn't have written it. Not one defended his book.

I say you're lying.

"It’s a strange place I find myself these days, in my late 30s, and faced with the reality of friends, SEAL brothers, lost and gone from my life. The most recent include my friend Chris Kyle, who was killed last month, and Glen Doherty, who died six months earlier... Chris took no pleasure in taking lives as a sniper, and he doesn’t deserve the criticism that some, including Representative Ron Paul of Texas, have leveled at him. He did what his country asked of him, and did it well. His family also sacrificed greatly and deserved a moment of dignity in his death. As citizens we all share some responsibility for what this country does to defend and protect its borders. After life in the SEALs, Chris donated profits from his book, “American Sniper,” to a charity started by the mother of a fallen teammate, Marc Lee, America’s Mighty Warriors."

Brandon Webb is a former Navy SEAL, author of a memoir, “The Red Circle,” and editor in chief of Sofrep (Special Operations Forces Report).

Still Reeling From the Death of Chris Kyle, a SEAL Brother

Palmdale  posted on  2015-02-01   17:50:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#245. To: Palmdale (#244)

I say you're lying.

God, you are such a moron.

Chris donated profits from his book, “American Sniper,”

We were discussing Robert O'Neill, not Chris Kyle.

So before you jump in with both feet in your mouth, maybe you should work on your reading comprehension.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-01   18:04:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#246. To: TooConservative (#245)

His SEAL colleagues, inasmuch as they spoke, disputed his account

You always lie.

Colleagues confirm that Robert O'Neill fired shots killing Bin Laden, but some are angry he is talking

Palmdale  posted on  2015-02-01   18:13:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 246.

#247. To: Palmdale (#246)

You always lie.

After you made a false accusation due to your poor reading habits, that is quite funny.

Thank you, Mr. Projection.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-01 18:20:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 246.

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