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Title: {Mine} Is solar power really economical?
Source: SoSo
URL Source: http://www.northfortynews.com/pvrea ... ommunity-solar-farm-goes-live/
Published: Jan 30, 2015
Author: North Forty News
Post Date: 2015-01-30 17:24:02 by SOSO
Keywords: None
Views: 22363
Comments: 59

Air National Guard couple set to deploy Larimer County’s Senior Tax Work-Off applications accepted starting Feb. 2 PVREA’s second community solar farm goes live By NFN On January 29, 2015 In Dispatches · Add Comment

Poudre Valley Rural Electric Association initiated into production on Jan. 29 the cooperative’s second community solar farm.

The 632 kW Community Solar Farm II, located north of Fort Collins, is generating power for members of PVREA who have purchased panels to offset their electric use. In a partnership with Clean Energy Collective, this project makes two community solar farms for PVREA.

“We recognized the demand for another renewable energy option from our membership, and the overwhelming success and 100 percent sellout of the first solar farm provided us the incentive to establish our second community solar farm,” PVREA CEO Jeff Wadsworth commented.

The cooperative’s first solar farm located at the co-op headquarters is 116 kW powered by 494 solar panels. The second solar farm is more than four times larger with more than 2,200 panels generating 632 kW. Members who are interested have the opportunity to purchase solar panels through Clean Energy Collective. The energy generated from their purchased panels is deducted from their monthly bill.

According to Clean Energy Collective, the average residential member is estimated to see a bill credit of $5 per month per panel and will receive their return of investment in a little over 13 years.

This solar farm adds to the cooperative’s growing renewable energy portfolio, which already includes the cooperative’s first solar farm project, over 160 net-metering applications, the Carter Lake Hydroelectric project and the Green Power Program.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 51.

#10. To: SOSO (#0)

Is solar power really economical?

Yes. It depends where you live, however and how the equipment is setup. As an example: if you live in the Southwestern area of the USA, there is abundant sunshine; if the orientation of the solar voltaic panels face South, you have an excellent investment with various energy conservation techniques such as attic insulation, double pane windows, etc.

A poor investment in solar power is to purchase a thermo-conversion system, i.e: hot water panels and piping. This is a poor investment.

Pridie.Nones  posted on  2015-01-30   22:08:10 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Pridie.Nones, All (#10)

Is solar power really economical?

It depends where you live, however and how the equipment is setup.

But much more on the cost of electricity from your utility. I live in area in which the sun shines over 300 days per year. I have a 3400+ square foot two story home with gas heat and electric A/C. My annual electric bill is well less than $1,800. Assuming that I could install roof top solar to enabale to live off grid, how much do you think that system would cost to install, operate and maintain? If the installation $18,000 that would represent a 10 year payback period (not taking into account maintenance and replacement), $36,000 a 20 year payout. The last time I checked it would cost me much more than $36,000 to save $1,800 a year in electricity bills. Not is the definition of not economical.

Now there are places not too far from where I live that a somewaht remote or with a very low population density wherein the owner of the proprty would have to pay the utility upfront to construct the facilities necessary to provide electric service. Investment in on-site solar generation, as well as a whole range of renewal and energy efficiency facilities, may make good economic sense. But these situations are few and far between.

SOSO  posted on  2015-01-30   23:45:23 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: SOSO (#11) (Edited)

But much more on the cost of electricity from your utility.

Apparently, the initial value for you and your family is not worth the investment in solar photo-voltaic conversion technology; for me, it is not about a dollars and cents perspective; it is more about the quality of life.

So far over an eight year period there have been no maintenance issues other than to hose off the panels in the two arrays I have. It takes about 30 minutes with a high pressure hose and a soft scrubber mounted on a pool deck handle so as to reach the panels within the two arrays. There are 16 panels mounted in series for each array; each panel array feeds an inverter (the inverter is operated at 75% of panel capability so I can upgrade four more panels in each array; I calculated the average power I consumed in the 5 year period before installation and there is no loss of any measureable power efficiency over the eight years of service.

My home is cool (~70 degrees F) all year round and I havn't seen an electric bill since installation.

To install this technology you must realize that the real value is quality of life. It can reach 120 degrees F (measured outside under the patio awning) in July, August and September where I live. It is cost prohibitive to be on the "grid" at peak load times because the utility company multiplies the cost by as many as 5X.

I might add, in the early mornings/evenings I use a whole house attic fan to blast the attic with cool air; this ensures a buffer for much of the day. I also insulated the attic by double recommended thickness as well as automatic attic fans. I also mounted double pane windows throughout the home and placed plenty of insulation barriers around doors to seal the place.

For me, it is about quality of life. The dollar cost is not a priority.

Pridie.Nones  posted on  2015-01-31   19:17:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Pridie.Nones (#23)

My home is cool (~70 degrees F) all year round and I havn't seen an electric bill since installation.

To install this technology you must realize that the real value is quality of life. It can reach 120 degrees F (measured outside under the patio awning) in July, August and September where I live.

I have no basis to doubt what you report but I must admit I find it hard to believe that 32 panels can keep your home at 70 degrees when it is 120 degrees outside plus keep you lights and applicances on. What size is your home? What is the name plate kw output of you system?

SOSO  posted on  2015-01-31   22:36:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: SOSO (#27)

You did not read my earlier post in entirety. Let me assure you the problem you are addressing is NOT about alternative energy sources but more about energy conservation techniques.

Please re-read my earlier post because if you think you can find a cheap alternative energy source without improving the ifratructure, you are wrong. I suppose, you are interested in the added costs of conservation to ensure quality of life besides the addition of alternative energy sources?

Pridie.Nones  posted on  2015-01-31   22:46:07 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Pridie.Nones (#31)

Let me assure you the problem you are addressing is NOT about alternative energy sources but more about energy conservation techniques.

I assure you that the issue that I am addressing is the economics of alternative energy sources not energy conservation.

"Please re-read my earlier post because if you think you can find a cheap alternative energy source without improving the ifratructure, you are wrong."

I am sorry but you response is confusing. You calimed that you can keep you home at 70 degress for the three months when the outside temperature is 120 degrees with just 36 solar panels. Is that correct? If so please tell me the size of your home and the nameplate capacity of your solar installation.

Are you saying that solar PV is the cheapest source of alternative energy? If so, what infrastructure would need to be changed to make that not so?

SOSO  posted on  2015-01-31   22:58:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: SOSO (#33)

I keep my home @70 degrees F +/- 2 degrees at all times; I have done so for years without paying one thin dime after certain conservation efforts were permanently installed. I manufacture about .9KW/h per panel per day on average; both arrays produce the same energy output with less than .1% difference; that is the reason for a redundant photo-voltaic system; I have an approach to monitor collection. I rarely use more than what I produce because of conservation techniques; of course, when there is cloud cover, I do not produce anywhere the peak capability of the system but that is a rare phenomena.

I am not a salesman and I am not looking for clients; I designed the system I have and it works just fine. Your detailed questions are off topic.

Pridie.Nones  posted on  2015-01-31   23:14:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Pridie.Nones, SOSO (#35)

I am not a salesman and I am not looking for clients; I designed the system I have and it works just fine. Your detailed questions are off topic.

Seriously? Chuckle!!!! Nobody is asking you to be a salesman.

Otter  posted on  2015-01-31   23:25:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Otter (#36)

So what is your reasoning to ask detailed questions, such as:

If you wouldn't mind, could you tell me where you are located and what make of panels, batteries and inverters you are using? How many batteries? Thanks.

Why do you require that information? Go research that sort of stuff with your friends or energy salesmen.

Pridie.Nones  posted on  2015-01-31   23:30:52 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: Pridie.Nones (#37)

So what is your reasoning to ask detailed questions, such as:

Detailed? The manufacturers of your panels,inverters and number of batteries and your experience with them? What are you hiding?

Otter  posted on  2015-02-01   0:49:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: Otter (#43)

Detailed?

Yes. You are attempting to understand detailed, equipment design integration and reliability data; I designed the system using research data of industrial grade components meeting personal requirements at the time of installation; this system is not purchased by a a direct supplier or distributor but through OCMs based on my technical requirements and personal purchasing capability.

The manufacturers of your panels,inverters and number of batteries and your experience with them?

I refuse to submit any detailed equipment information other than what I choose to provide; the extent of technical data is contained in earlier posts on this thread. I might add: I cut out the middle men with an approximate 32KW/h system achieving my design objectives; in fact, I have never discussed my requirements with any non-technical personel.

What are you hiding?

Everything that I choose to not submit for arbitrary discussion.

Pridie.Nones  posted on  2015-02-02   21:00:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Pridie.Nones (#47)

You could have easily wasted less time and space by simply listing the manufacturers...if indeed you even have a solar setup.

Otter  posted on  2015-02-02   21:38:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: Otter (#49) (Edited)

Again, why do you have a reason for the data? More importantly (now) why didn't you answer my earlier question about stating your reasons within post #37?

What are you hiding that prevents you from answering a simple question?

Pridie.Nones  posted on  2015-02-02   21:53:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: Pridie.Nones (#50)

Again, why do you have a reason for the data?

Manufacturers aren't data! Nor are manufacturers of vehicles, cellphones, TVs, etc. Don't bother to respond.

Otter  posted on  2015-02-02   21:57:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 51.

#52. To: Otter (#51)

Manufacturers aren't data!

For purposes of design and reliabilty data of any system, the manufacturers are (indeed) data points to consider.

Your own example:

Nor are manufacturers of vehicles, cellphones, TVs, etc.

Proves the point. You are very dense about what data is all about, aren't you?

Pridie.Nones  posted on  2015-02-02 22:06:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 51.

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