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Title: Does time pass?
Source: MIT News
URL Source: http://newsoffice.mit.edu/2015/book-brad-skow-does-time-pass-0128
Published: Jan 28, 2015
Author: Peter Dizikes
Post Date: 2015-01-30 14:00:33 by cranky
Keywords: None
Views: 18727
Comments: 57

“If you walk into a cocktail party and say, ‘I don’t believe that time passes,’ everyone’s going to think you’re completely insane,” says Brad Skow, an associate professor of philosophy at MIT.

He would know: Skow himself doesn’t believe time passes, at least not in the way we often describe it, through metaphorical descriptions in which we say, as he notes, “that time flows like a river, or we move through time the way a ship sails on the sea.”

Skow doesn’t believe time is ever in motion like this. In the first place, he says, time should be regarded as a dimension of spacetime, as relativity theory holds — so it does not pass by us in some way, because spacetime doesn’t. Instead, time is part of the uniform larger fabric of the universe, not something moving around inside it.

Now in a new book, “Objective Becoming,” published by Oxford University Press, Skow details this view, which philosophers call the “block universe” theory of time.

In one sense, the block universe theory seems unthreatening to our intuitions: When Skow says time does not pass, he does not believe that nothing ever happens. Events occur, people age, and so on. “Things change,” he agrees.

However, Skow believes that events do not sail past us and vanish forever; they just exist in different parts of spacetime. (Some physics students who learn to draw diagrams of spacetime may find this view of time intuitive.) Still, Skow’s view of time does lead to him to offer some slightly more unusual-sounding conclusions.

For instance: We exist in a “temporally scattered” condition, as he writes in the new book.

“The block universe theory says you’re spread out in time, something like the way you’re spread out in space,” Skow says. “We’re not located at a single time.”

Spotlighting the alternatives

In “Objective Becoming,” Skow aims to convince readers that things could hardly be otherwise. To do so, he spends much of the book considering competing ideas about time — the ones that assume time does pass, or move by us in some way. “I was interested in seeing what kind of view of the universe you would have if you took these metaphors about the passage of time very, very seriously,” Skow says.

In the end, Skow finds these alternatives lacking, including one fairly popular view known as “presentism,” which holds that only events and objects in the present can be said to exist — and that Skow thinks defies the physics of spacetime.

Skow is more impressed by an alternative idea called the “moving spotlight” theory, which may allow that the past and future exist on a par with the present. However, the theory holds, only one moment at a time is absolutely present, and that moment keeps changing, as if a spotlight were moving over it. This is also consistent with relativity, Skow thinks — but it still treats the present as being too distinct, as if the present were cut from different cloth than the rest of the universal fabric.

“I think the theory is fantastic,” Skow writes of the moving spotlight idea. “That is, I think it is a fantasy. But I also have a tremendous amount of sympathy for it.” After all, the moving spotlight idea does address our sense that there must be something special about the present.

“The best argument for the moving spotlight theory focuses on the seemingly incredible nature of what the block universe theory is saying about our experience in time,” Skow adds.

Still, he says, that argument ultimately “rests on a big confusion about what the block universe theory is saying. Even the block universe theory agrees that … the only experiences I’m having are the ones I’m having now in this room.” The experiences you had a year ago or 10 years ago are still just as real, Skow asserts; they’re just “inaccessible” because you are now in a different part of spacetime.

That may take a chunk of, well, time to digest. But by treating the past, present, and future as materially identical, the theory is consistent with the laws of physics as we understand them. And at MIT, that doesn’t sound insane at all.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 28.

#1. To: cranky (#0)

Does time pass?

To answer the question, we first have to define what time IS.

The answer depends entirely on the definition.

Time may not even EXIST. It doesn't exist unless we can precisely define it.

I've never seen a definition of "time" that wasn't simply circular.

The word "time" turns out to be like the word "existence": you can only define it in terms of itself.

(Try to define "existence", and you will swiftly find that you cannot do it without using the words "to be" or "being". But then try to define "to be", and you can't do it without using the word "exist".

You end up chasing your tail and realize that you CAN'T define either existence/being or time other than circularly.

Everything ultimately comes back to the definition of the verb "To be".

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-01-30   15:25:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Vicomte13 (#1)

The sun rises in the east and sets in the west. One of the measurements of time we have from creation.

redleghunter  posted on  2015-01-31   0:19:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: redleghunter (#16)

The sun rises in the east and sets in the west. One of the measurements of time we have from creation.

The Sun does not rise at all. The earth spins on its own axis, and the sun, coincidentally, happens to be out there at a relatively fixed place day to day (though the earth is also moving around it, and it around the earth too (to a lesser degree - in truth, both are moving in tandem around a common center of mass and spiraling forward as they do).

We choose to arbitrarily set the earth as the fixed point, to say that the Sun revolves about it, rising and setting, and then we define a day as the period of the coincidence. We can do that, but it doesn't make the "day" as such real outside of the minds that have decided to assign meaning to that cycle.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-01-31   0:30:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Vicomte13 (#21)

Yes understand all that. Even the Jesuits were keen to teach me that. The point was how people observe time. We are on earth not the international space station.

redleghunter  posted on  2015-01-31   0:34:46 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: redleghunter (#22)

The point was how people observe time.

And my point is that they are not OBSERVING anything.

They are seeing the sun pass above. They choose to reify the sequence of that passing and call it a "thing" - time. But all there really is, is the sequence. The Sun isn't moving across in something REAL called time, which it is measuring. The Sun is just moving, and men have decided to call the speed of its movement time. That's dandy, but it doesn't mean that there really IS a thing that is "time".

People talk of "time travel". But given that time is merely the observation of the Sun passing over, abstracted out, then to reverse time one would merely need to make the Sun move the other way.

Of course even if one made the sun move the other way, that would not change the other sequences out there. The sun moving to and fro does not change (much) The human body and its own cycles.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-01-31   0:39:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Vicomte13 (#24)

Humans have measured days, weeks, months and years using heavenly bodies since the beginning. Why make this so hard. The same egg heads that try to define time or if such exists are the same types who question the origins of morals.

God is not only the Law giver but the time keeper.

The tag line explains some of this "wondering" of men.

redleghunter  posted on  2015-01-31   0:54:46 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 28.

#32. To: redleghunter (#28)

Why make this so hard.

Because we're creating entites that don't exist and asserting they do, for our ease of passage. This then deceives us into seeing the entities as real.

Go back and look at the definition of a DAY, as God defined it in genesis 1.

Day, Yom, is the period of "order" - the period of light.

Which means that there is on day a year at the north and south poles, and more days a year as one moves down the latitudes until one comes to the place where the sun rises and sets with a regularity such that about 365 such cycles occur before the stars overhead return to their starting positions.

But a YEAR, by the Biblical clock, is not 365 days. There is no fixed Biblical year measured by days.

Years, rather, are measured by a cycle of months, and months are based purely on direct physical observations of the moon. When there is no moon, by direct physical observation, that is designated the New Moon and a new month begins. Months have no relationship to numbers of days. Nor do years. Not in Biblical time.

Years are cycles of months. The months have names, and the names are based upon agricultural cycles in the Middle Eastern climate zones. Thus, a certain new moon won't be declared a certain month if it doesn't correspond to the agricultural cycle. Rather, an intercalary month would be added.

This was not due to a day count or a year count. You cannot declare the month of new shoots, for example, if the new moon comes and the ground is frozen solid with snow piled deep. The month of new shoots hasn't come yet.

Relative to some sort of fixed calendar (say, the position of the stars overhead in the temperate zone at a certain time period, this declaration of certain months based on observation of the moon AND observation of the weather is how the Hebrew calendar over time was always set to the natural cycle and why growing seasons did not get weeks, then months out of synch. There was no calendar drift, using God's time, because you don't declare the first month unless it IS the first month based on what is happening.

There is no relationship between Biblical months and days. Indeed, a Biblical month on earth, were the calendar applied, everywhere, would have months of one continuous day and no night at all, at the poles, and months of only a couple of days, and months of NO days, during the months of polar darkness.

And the calendar would not start on Antarctica, because a new moon coming would never be accompanied by the New Shoots, so the long year would wind on and on, through light months of one day, and dark months of no days. At the poles, there would be one Sabbath Day every 7 years.

God's calendar in the Bible was not FOR the whole world, for he didn't give the Israelites the whole world. He gave them a tightly bounded piece of land in a certain zone, and he gave them a calendar for that zone, only.

Apply that standard of time outside of that zone, and it does not work.

God did put stars, moon and sun "for signs and seasons", but he did not then give the world a calendar by which to measure them. That's up to us. He gave the Hebrews a specific calendar, for THEM, which works in the specific geographic zone that is Israel, but which doesn't work at all when you move to the Arctic or Antarctic. If there are no new shoots, the year never begins. Ever. And at the North and South Pole, measured by the time system God gave, the world still dwells in Year 1, there having never been the requisite conditions to declare the first month of year 2.

God's calendar is relative to the moon, and flows with the moon. Which is why certain feasts always fall or begin or end on a sabbath day. If the day count were separate from the moon count, that would not work.

What you're trying to do, because it is comfortable, is to take our precise and scientific notions of time, and preserve them all as ENTITIES, and seeing God as having ordained those entities all the way back to the beginning. But our entities of time are not in the Scripture at all. And the entitles that ARE, the way God defined days and months, and years, we would find to be ragged, and result in different day counts and month counts and year lengths depending on where we lived on the planet.

We think globally. But God gave a time system whose details work exclusively for the land of Israel, for that where all of the people to whom he gave that sequence were supposed to live.

This is also why God gave the food laws as he did. He said right up front, right after giving the first food laws, that if the Israelites followed all of his laws and statutes, he wouldn't afflict them with the diseases they had in Egypt.

So, he moved them from Egypt, through a desert, to next-door Canaan: same weather, same sun, same animals, same seas, with their cyclic pollutions (from a human perspective). In the Mediterranean and Red Sea, hot and without water flow, the oysters and crabs from flat muddy, fetid beds are very likely to produce disease in an era without refrigeration. They were "unclean". But were oysters in Norway unclean, or crabs in Murmansk? There, where the water is cold, one can eat them raw year round.

So, are they prohibited to Jews? Unanswerable from Scripture, because Hebrews weren't supposed to be in Norway. They were supposed to be on their promised farm in the Promised Land, in just precisely that latitude and longitude. They were supposed to be tending their farms and raising their families THERE, and God gave detailed rules for that specific people, in that specific land, doing what they were supposed to be doing, in that zone, using a calendar that works for THERE. God didn't fill in the rules for the whole planet.

It was Jesus who - knowing that he was preaching new things for the whole world, revealing life after death, and life in the City of God, and the resurrection, revealing all of these things to the whole world - said that what goes into a man's mouth doesn't make him unclean. Kosher laws of uncleanness worked for ISRAEL, but they were pointless for Norse and Canadians, Russians and Scots, etc. You don't necessarily get sick from eating oysters or parasites from pork, but you do if you're in ancient Israel, in THAT zone.

The food law was abrogated explicitly to make it clear not that people of God are not Jews, under the law, but because God gave all animals to man to eat, and then carved out excepts FOR Israel, because of the conditions of Israel. With the teachings of the resurrection and Jesus calling all, the law reverted to what GOd told Noah: eat anything, but not living flesh.

Likewise the calendar. Seasons and signs? Sure, that's generic. "Day" in scripture means the light? Yes.

But past that, the calendar God gave the Hebrews, with its more specific units, only applied to them, in that land. It was MADE FOR that specific land. It doesn't even WORK when you move to the hinterlands.

Does that mean that men were not intended to live in the Arctic, where the calendar fails utterly, and where virtually ALL of the food is "unclean" from a Jewish perspective? No! Man was told to fill the whole land. It just means that JEWS before Jesus were not intended to live outside of Israel. God didn't give time sequences or restrictive food laws to Eskimos and Saami, and they WERE supposed to be up there, eating what was there, all of which was unclean TO JEWS.

When Jesus pronounced the doom of the Temple and Jerusalem, and God destroyed it for good, now the calendar and the food laws have passed EVEN FOR JEWS. Jewish is not an ethnicity: the way to God is through Jesus for them too.

So don't become obstinate about Biblical time. DAY is defined as light. But the months and years? What God laid out fit Israel. It doesn't work to the North or deep South. He left us to figure out our own time using those stars and moon and sun. Whatever we do is fine. but we must not pretend that it is REAL, or certainly that OUR concept of time is ordained by God.

What God ordained, we don't do. We don't define "day" as he did. We don't define month as he did. Our years don't fit his calendar. Time as we measure it is not in the Bible, and actually makes it hard for us to read the Bible.

For we read "year" and we think pf a solar cycle. And we read "day" and we think that midnight is part of a day. But midnight is night, and the day is the period of light, as God used the word.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-01-31 09:13:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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