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Title: So, you claim to be a Born Again Christian
Source:
ChristianPatriot.com
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Published: Jan 23, 2015
Author: Pastor Bob Celeste for ACP
Post Date: 2015-01-23 12:29:48 by BobCeleste
Keywords: Salvation, Christianity
Views: 33810
Comments: 90
Friday, January 23, 2015 Remember me, Salvation, John 3:3 So, you claim to be a Born Again Christian, fine, but are you? Are you one of the many, who while professing to be Born Again find nothing wrong with homosexual sex? Are you amongst the 49% who believe there is nothing wrong with two people living together outside of marriage? Are you part of the one out of three that find the killing of a baby trapped in the womb to be morally acceptable? Are you part of the group that believe that Jesus is your friend and not your master? Are you one of the over 50% who say the Jesus did not live a sinless life, deny the virgin birth, or deny absolute truth of the Bible? Well, if you said yes to any of the above, you are not Saved and going to hell. Let me paraphrase John 3:3 for you, "Be Born Again or go to hell!" Yes that is a perfect paraphrase of John 3:3. Now let's look at the Greek word philos, pronounced fee'-los, it means dear, i.e. a friend. It is found 27 times in the New Testament, in not one of those verses is it found in reference to Jesus, not once do we find anyone in the New Testament calling Jesus "friend". Not one of the Apostles call the Lord friend. James, the half brother of the Lord referred to himself as "James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ". Not James, the half brother of the Lord, but James the servant of the Lord. In the Greek it is, James [Iakobos], a servant [doulos] of God [theos] and [kai] of the Lord [Kurios] Jesus [Iesous] Christ [Christos]... The Greek word doulos, pronounced doo'-los means, a slave (literal or figurative, involuntary or voluntary; frequently, therefore in a qualified sense of subjection or subserviency):--bond(-man), servant. Not a friend, not a half brother, but slave, bond servant, obeyer of all orders and commands given by the Lord Jesus. Yet over fifty percent of all those calling themselves Born Again, claim that Jesus is their friend, not their master, but their friend, not their owner, but their friend. So, how could they have given their life to the Lord? How can they be Born Again? And if they are not truly Born Again, how can they go anywhere other than the lake of fire? First we are going to look at the only Scripturally defined method of being Born Again, for the Lord Jesus Christ said in John 3:3, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God! To often that sentence is ended with a period, it is and exclamation, it is a matter of fact, it is not arbitrary, it is an absolute, it means simply this, unless you are Born Again, as defined by Scripture, no matter how good a life you live, you are not even going to see the inside of heaven, you are going to spend eternity in the lake of fire with the devil and it's. look, if you are one of the very many who said some canned so called Prayer of Salvation and did not comply, 100%, with what The Lord Jesus acknowledge as Born Again, you are not going to heaven, you are going to the lake of fire, I don't know how I can be any clearer. I don't care what the pope says, I don't care what so called Evangelical leaders say, I only care what He, who went up on the cross for us, He who left His kingdom in heaven and came to earth to offer us the one and only way to eternal peace and love with Him in heaven, has to say. And if any who disagree ca find Scripture to contradict this dire warning, so be it, let them do it, but as for those who start by disagreeing with denominational garbage or commentary by others, don't waste your time. Later today, we are going to look at the one and only Scriptural method of being Born Again. For those who disagree, prove your point with Scripture or offer yourself on a cross for me and I'll consider what you have to say.
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#10. To: BobCeleste (#6)
And thou shalt love the lord your god with all your heart, all your soul and all your mind. Bob, you've turned your mind off. You refuse to think. This is not acceptable to anyone, least of all god.
Bob, you've turned your mind off. You refuse to think. This is not acceptable to anyone, least of all god. Biff, I paraphrased John 3:3 as Jesus saying, Be Born Again or go to hell, am I wrong? If so, how? You continue to make accusations yet you refuse to show me where I have erred in any of my published thoughts.
Yes, you're wrong. You're taking a snippet out of context. They weren't even discussing that.
IDM what you claim but what God knows about you.......period.....exclamation point.....end of story. It is only His call of out or safe at the Pearly Gates that counts.
the entire post is about salvation, what are you talking about? Are you a Born Again Christian?
Where is your Scripture to support that? Has God not already decided? If not how do you explain predestination ?
To the extent that there is no linearity of time for God as understood by man, i.e. He knows the past, present and future, you tell me? If not how do you explain predestination? I don't explain it. If everything was predestined then what is the purpose of God creating man to being with? If a man's fate is predestined then there is no such thing as free will. While you are at it, please tell me why did God create and and the pyshical universe in which man resides?
Get some paper and pen SOSO "And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;" (Revelation 5:9)
I think Bob's point is within the context of the passage, chapter and conversion Jesus had with Nicodemus. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. 9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
"And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;" (Revelation 5:9)
Hey, Scripture didn't say there would be Math on the final.
Bob spouts nonsense.
Who do you think he was talking about?
A precision: One must be begotten again - born means come out of womb, and that's a female function. But one is begotten by one's Father (mother too). And Jesus speaks elsewhere about obtaining God as your Father, in the spirit. So, when one is BEGOTTEN again, one exchanges fathers for the Heavenly Father, who begets one anew with his spirit. Hence the bit about "the wind blows where it wishes". Remember, wind and spirit are the same thing. God walked with Adam and Eve in "the breezy part of the day", which is to say, the time when his spirit was blowing in the garden. Remember that the wind/spirit of God brooded over the waters in Genesis 1. Remember "Pneuma Hagion" - Holy Spirit, is Holy Breath, or Holy Wind. Remember, God blew breath/wind/spirit into Adam's nostrils, and he became a breather, a nephesh, a "living soul". When you are begotten again, the Father's spirit comes upon you and he becomes your Father in Heaven (and you are released from your father, Satan, of the earth). What made Jesus unique is that he was begotten of the Father AND of a woman - so, he was begotten in the FLESH as well as the spirit. The Father is the father of all of us, by the spirit, but Jesus was the "only begotten" in a fleshly, biological sense, because he was also begotten by Mary, a human woman. (If it weren't God doing the begetting, Jesus would be a Nephil.)
You have not substantiated such. Other than an opinion of some previous thread distractors, who, as well, did not substantiate their comments.
"And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;" (Revelation 5:9)
Not much place for me in this discussion, but I'll say this: It defies logic that what a physical brain decides, in good faith, is truth would determine the eternal fate of the connected soul. If God is all powerful and all wise, and all loving, surely he could come up with a better plan for his children than portrayed with the "believe this or burn forever" model. Under the Michael Newton theological model, one's academic theology is of little importance. Further, life along with all it's tragedy and joy, along with the universe we live in serve a very pragmatic purpose. On both of these points the Newton model works much better. There's more love from God, and more purpose to life, just as much accountability, and complete free will.
Remember, God blew breath/wind/spirit into Adam's nostrils, and he became a breather, a nephesh, a "living soul". When you are begotten again, the Father's spirit comes upon you and he becomes your Father in Heaven (and you are released from your father, Satan, of the earth). Excellent points. It's right there in front of Nicodemus as he knew the very scriptures Christ was pointing him to.
"And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;" (Revelation 5:9)
But nicodemus had no clue about spiritual matters. That's what jesus is trying to tell him. Nicodemus says, we (the pharisees) 'know' or 'perceive' you are from god because blah, blah, blah. And jesus says, Unless you've had god's spirit renew you, you can not 'perceive' or 'know' anything about god's kingdom. Nicodemus didn't have a clue what he was talking about. So jesus gave him some more. And nicodemus says, how can these things be? Or what the heck are you talking about? And jesus says, you're a master of Israel and you don't know these things? Really, quite an interesting conversation. Note, to translate all this as 'be born again or go to hell' is laughable. Also, get vicomte to explain how from verse 13 on, it's john speaking, not red letter jesus. That's quite interesting too.
To the extent that there is no linearity of time for God as understood by man, i.e. He knows the past, present and future, you tell me? If not how do you explain predestination? I don't explain it. If everything was predestined then what is the purpose of God creating man to being with? If a man's fate is predestined then there is no such thing as free will. While you are at it, please tell me why did God create and and the pyshical universe in which man resides? I think if you spent a bit more time in Bible study you might find your answers. My only goal now is to show Scripturally, what one must do to be Born again.
Biff are you or are you not a Born Again Washed in the Blood of the Lamb Christian? Until you answer that, we have nothing else to discuss, you are certainly welcome to read what I post, but none of your comments will be addressed till you answer that question and if you say yes, then the question of what did you do to get Saved. Titus 3:10
God's plan of salvation is so easy, so straight forward and so absolute so as to allow no one to say it is unfair. It is the only plan that allows a quadrapalegic that can move no part of his or her body, not even eye lids, to get saved It allows a man or woman, boy or girl any where in the world to do it. It cost no money and requires nothing in return that even the poorest wrench or most powerful multi billionaire cannot afford to do. And you say it defies logic? Tell me what about the simple requirement that you must be born again, defies logic? Do you know what Born Again is?
We have nothing to discuss anyway. You aren't much for listening and thinking.
Nicodemus says, we (the pharisees) 'know' or 'perceive' you are from god because blah, blah, blah. And jesus says, Unless you've had god's spirit renew you, you can not 'perceive' or 'know' anything about god's kingdom. Nicodemus didn't have a clue what he was talking about. So jesus gave him some more. And nicodemus says, how can these things be? Or what the heck are you talking about? And jesus says, you're a master of Israel and you don't know these things? Really, quite an interesting conversation. Note, to translate all this as 'be born again or go to hell' is laughable. Also, get vicomte to explain how from verse 13 on, it's john speaking, not red letter jesus. That's quite interesting too. Well I have to say you boil it down good. From verse 13 on? I remember that discussion with Vic back here a few years ago. From what I remember, Vic was not dogmatic in his view nor did he downgrade the inspired nature of the text. However, you missed one part of the dialogue between Jesus and Nicodemus: Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. What happens to folks who don't get to see the kingdom of God? That is explained in verses 13-21 and beyond. Not to mention in all 4 gospels.
"And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;" (Revelation 5:9)
God's plan of salvation is so easy, so straight forward and so absolute so as to allow no one to say it is unfair. . . . . And you say it defies logic? Tell me what about the simple requirement that you must be born again, defies logic? Do you know what Born Again is? I am indeed familiar with the christian concept of being born again. The theology of christian salvation is indeed straight forward. What is illogical is that God would have created a master plan that would have required salvation from eternal damnation, thereby resulting in so many of his beloved children to end up in a pit of eternal pain for all eternity. Even earthly parents love their children so much that no matter how horrible the crimes they commit, they never give up on them. And we are to believe God would love his children less than the amount mortal parents love theirs? Or if we are to believe that he does indeed love us eternally, that he actually loves his master plan more? Or perhaps that he is bound by his own nature and cannot help but let his kids burn forever, which flies in the face of being "all powerful"? It is this point which defies logic. If God is indeed all-powerful, all knowing and all wise, then surely he could have come up with a better plan than this. And I believe he did.
No, I didn't miss it. It got lost in translation. As to what happens to those who can't see the kingdom of god, they're blind ... Until they can see. Which we and others can help with. But screaming at people that they are going to burn doesn't help any one. And that's not what was jesus was doing, in john 3 or any where. Do you think people loved him and were fascinated by him because of threats? And perhaps he even had the right and position to threaten. But we don't.
Do you think people loved him and were fascinated by him because of threats? And perhaps he even had the right and position to threaten. But we don't. John chapter 1 tells us the following: John 1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.(KJV) Then this from John 3: 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.(KJV)
"And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;" (Revelation 5:9)
We can cut and paste scriptures all day It's not productive. Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, saying, The scribes and the Pharisees ... For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. Tannen out.
A most appropriate entry. The laws and religion of man can be burdensome.
"And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;" (Revelation 5:9)
A most appropriate entry. The laws and religion of man can be burdensome. Is it God's command on us to have the laws and religion of man be in perfect harmony with each other? Jesus clearly understood that He lived in a world of manmade laws to which there would be consequences if He did not obey. From what we can tell He obeyed most, if not all of them. Did He not pay taxes when due and urge others to do the same? Did He not tell slaves to obey their human masters? No doubt He was perfectly clear that when man's law was in conflict with God's law the latter was to obeyed over the former. And He preached charity but on an individual basis not on the state. He willfully subjected Himself to the law of man knowing full well that it would cost Him his human life. Ever society has struggled with less than perfect success to have its moral precepts reflected in its laws. Islam may come closest to achieving this than any western society but I don't know enough about that religion to express a well informed opinion. For sure, in all western societies some things that are religiously moral are illegal and some that are legal are religiously immoral.
My point was in response to the burdensome practices of the Pharisees. They were so into their man-made rules that one each Nicodemus could not see the forest for the trees. I know that is idiomatic.
"And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;" (Revelation 5:9)
OK, so what about my point?
Off subject.
"And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;" (Revelation 5:9)
I thought he said give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is Gods.
Biff, twice in the past two months I found myself in the VA ER facing death, both times the ER staff forced me to make a statement of how far they were to go to revive me, in both instance my chances of survival were under 10%, when faced with almost certain death one has to face the fact that they will be facing Christ very soon, in both instances I was able to tell the ER staff that I knew where I was going and that my life was in Christ hands and needed no special effort on their part for if He wanted me to stay I would stay if He wanted me with Him I would pass away. Now, Biff, one day you will be in the very same position, as will all, for all will one day face the prospect of imminent if not immediate death, I wonder how you will face that prospect.
I thought he said give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is Gods. Yes, He did.
Are you saying that it is wrong for the Creator to have rules? Did you not have any rules for yur kids as they grew up? But, God does have rules, and His single biggest rule is "Unless you are Born Again, you will not see the kingdom of heaven" John 3:3, now, whether you like the rule or not isn't important, there are lots of rules of man I hate, but must, unless I want to pay the fine of penalty, obey, God's rule is the same, it is not dependent upon your liking it for it to be in force.
I've always hoped i would face it like my grandfather did, calmly and peacefully without any particular alarm or upset. Not screaming and all panicked like the passengers in the car he was driving.
Yes, He did. I've read that that isn't the same as Jesus saying to pay your taxes.
I hope you stick around for a while Bob. I wish you good health.
Your grandfather was probably a Born Again Christian, for knowing where you are going and what awaits you on the other side is restricted to those of us who have freely given our lives to Christ. I too hope you can face death like that.
Me too, thanks. Facing death as a 20 year old Marine is nothing compared to facing it as a 70 year old. At 20 I was convinced that nothing could kill me, at 70 I realize I have one foot in the grave an the other on a banana peel at the best of times. Facing death at 70 makes on realize and confess that there is a God and that judgement is inevitable. A Pastor friend from Maine sent me JAKE'S FORTUNE, a novel by Ray Comfort, in it is the best description of what I felt facing death. Ray's description is unbelievably accurate. I would urge everyone, especially Christians, to read it. Thanks for this site A K A Stone, Bob
Bob old friend, I sincerely hope you are doing well! I pray for your good health and longevity! God Speed my friend !!
Si vis pacem, para bellum
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#11. To: Biff Tannen (#10)
And thou shalt love the lord your god with all your heart, all your soul and all your mind.
#12. To: BobCeleste (#11)
#13. To: BobCeleste, redleghunter, Biff Tannen, All (#0)
So, you claim to be a Born Again Christian?
#14. To: Biff Tannen (#12)
#15. To: SOSO (#13)
IDM what you claim but what God knows about you.......period.....exclamation point.....end of story. It is only His call of out or safe at the Pearly Gates that counts.
#16. To: BobCeleste (#15)
Has God not already decided? If not how do you explain predestination ?
#17. To: SOSO, Murron, liberator, TooConservative (#13)
IDM what you claim but what God knows about you.......period.....exclamation point.....end of story. It is only His call of out or safe at the Pearly Gates that counts.
#18. To: Biff Tannen (#12)
Yes, you're wrong. You're taking a snippet out of context. They weren't even discussing that.
#19. To: redleghunter, Murron, liberator, TooConservative (#17)
#20. To: redleghunter (#18)
#21. To: BobCeleste (#15)
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
#22. To: redleghunter (#18)
#23. To: Biff Tannen (#20)
#24. To: BobCeleste (#0)
#25. To: Vicomte13 (#22)
Remember that the wind/spirit of God brooded over the waters in Genesis 1. Remember "Pneuma Hagion" - Holy Spirit, is Holy Breath, or Holy Wind.
#26. To: redleghunter (#25)
#27. To: SOSO (#16)
Has God not already decided? If not how do you explain predestination ?
#28. To: Biff Tannen (#21)
#29. To: Pinguinite (#24)
It defies logic that what a physical brain decides, in good faith, is truth would determine the eternal fate of the connected soul. If God is all powerful and all wise, and all loving, surely he could come up with a better plan for his children than portrayed with the "believe this or burn forever" model.
#30. To: BobCeleste (#28)
#31. To: Biff Tannen (#26)
But nicodemus had no clue about spiritual matters. That's what jesus is trying to tell him.
#32. To: BobCeleste (#29)
#33. To: redleghunter (#31)
#34. To: Biff Tannen (#33)
And that's not what was jesus was doing, in john 3 or any where.
#35. To: redleghunter (#34)
#36. To: Biff Tannen (#35)
#37. To: redleghunter, Biff Tannen (#36)
#38. To: SOSO (#37)
#39. To: redleghunter (#38)
My point was in response to the burdensome practices of the Pharisees.
#40. To: SOSO (#39)
OK, so what about my point?
#41. To: SOSO (#37)
Did He not pay taxes when due and urge others to do the same?
#42. To: Biff Tannen (#30)
#43. To: A K A Stone (#41)
Did He not pay taxes when due and urge others to do the same?
#44. To: Pinguinite (#32)
The theology of christian salvation is indeed straight forward. What is illogical is that God would have created a master plan that would have required salvation from eternal damnation, thereby resulting in so many of his beloved children to end up in a pit of eternal pain for all eternity.
#45. To: BobCeleste (#42)
#46. To: SOSO (#43)
Did He not pay taxes when due and urge others to do the same? I thought he said give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is Gods.
#47. To: BobCeleste (#42)
facing death
#48. To: Biff Tannen (#45)
I've always hoped i would face it like my grandfather did, calmly and peacefully without any particular alarm or upset. Not screaming and all panicked like the passengers in the car he was driving.
#49. To: A K A Stone (#47)
I hope you stick around for a while Bob. I wish you good health.
#50. To: BobCeleste (#42)
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