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Title: Who Won The War Of 1812?
Source:
SOSO
URL Source: http://news.wypr.org/post/who-won-war-1812
Published: Jan 21, 2015
Author: Joe McCord
Post Date: 2015-01-21 19:17:39 by SOSO
Keywords: None
Views: 14410
Comments: 35
Who Won The War Of 1812? By Joel McCord • Jun 14, 2013 If you ask the average American about the War of 1812, you’ll probably hear about Fort McHenry, the Star Spangled Banner and maybe the Battle of New Orleans. But ask your average Brit and you may get a blank stare. The war we call our “second war of independence,” the one in which we threw off the British for good, doesn’t even register in the United Kingdom. Andrew Lambert, a professor of Naval History at Kings College, the University of London, says the British were in the middle of the Napoleonic Wars at the time, trying to hold off one of the greatest generals ever. And they were quite proud of having defeated Napoleon, the ultimate modern warrior, at Trafalgar and Waterloo. "James Madison,” he says, “really doesn’t cut the mustard when it comes to heroes we’ve beaten. You don’t feel big about yourself by beating up James Madison. He’s not, you know, it doesn’t register.” In fact, President Madison and the U.S. were the aggressors, says Don Graves, a Canadian historian. “Come on, we weren’t doing anything. What were Canadians doing? We were 600,000 people, one tenth the population of the United States. We had really nothing to do with the origins of the war,” Graves says. Lambert and Graves are among nearly 50 scholars presenting papers this week at “From Enemies to Allies,” a conference on the War of 1812 at the U.S. Naval Academy in Annapolis. Graves argues that part of the US war aim was to wrest Canada from the British. He says American historians contest the idea that Canada was the object of the war. But whether it was or not, it was “the only place the United States could fight a war against Great Britain.” With a navy a tenth the size of the Royal Navy, the U.S. certainly couldn’t take on the British on the high seas. But Don Hickey, a professor of history at Wayne State College in Nebraska, says that’s one of many myths surrounding the War of 1812. The U.S. went to war over British maritime policies, he argues; the Orders in Council, which restricted U.S. trade with countries under the dominion of Napoleon, and the British practice of impressing American merchant seamen into the Royal Navy. “Canada was the means to achieve concessions on the maritime issues,” he says, “not an end in and of itself. Although if we had conquered Canada it’s possible we would not have given it up.” Because the Canadians weren’t part of the run-up to the war, it looks to them as if the United States “simply invaded Canada, hoping to conquer and annex it,” he says. Despite their disagreements about the start of the war, they agree about the end. The British won, despite what Americans may think. The British kept Canada, as well as the maritime policies that Americans say were the reason for the war. Still, almost everyone involved walked off happy. The Americans are happy because they think they won. The Canadians were happier because they know they won--they remained part of the British Empire. And the British are happiest because they’ve forgotten all about it. The only losers were the native peoples living east of the Mississippi River. They were pushed off their lands, driven west of the river and in some cases forced onto reservations. This story is part of our series “Rockets’ Red Glare: The War, the Song and Their Legacies,” made possible by a grant from Star Spangled 200, a national bicentennial in Maryland.
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#1. To: Vicomte13, cranky (#0)
This author would call it 3-0 for Victomte13.
This source probably calls a 2-2 draw. "Dec 24, 1814: War of 1812 ends Previous DayDecember 24CalendarNext Day. 0 The Treaty of Peace and Amity between His Britannic Majesty and the United States of America is signed by British and American representatives at Ghent, Belgium, ending the War of 1812. By terms of the treaty, all conquered territory was to be returned, and commissions were planned to settle the boundary of the United States and Canada. In June 1812, the United States declared war against Great Britain in reaction to three issues: the British economic blockade of France, the induction of thousands of neutral American seamen into the British Royal Navy against their will, and the British support of hostile Indian tribes along the Great Lakes frontier. A faction of Congress, made up mostly of western and southern congressmen, had been advocating the declaration of war for several years. These "War Hawks," as they were known, hoped that war with Britain, which was preoccupied with its struggle against Napoleonic France, would result in U.S. territorial gains in Canada and British-protected Florida. In the months following the U.S. declaration of war, American forces launched a three-point invasion of Canada, all of which were repulsed. At sea, however, the United States was more successful, and the USS Constitution and other American frigates won a series of victories over British warships. In 1813, American forces won several key victories in the Great Lakes region, but Britain regained control of the sea and blockaded the eastern seaboard. In 1814, with the downfall of Napoleon, the British were able to allocate more military resources to the American war, and Washington, D.C., fell to the British in August. In Washington, British troops burned the White House, the Capitol, and other buildings in retaliation for the earlier burning of government buildings in Canada by U.S. soldiers. The British soon retreated, however, and Fort McHenry in Baltimore harbor withstood a massive British bombardment and inspired Francis Scott Key to pen the "Star-Spangled Banner." On September 11, 1814, the tide of the war turned when Thomas Macdonough's American naval force won a decisive victory at the Battle of Plattsburg Bay on Lake Champlain. A large British army under Sir George Prevost was thus forced to abandon its invasion of the U.S. northeast and retreat to Canada. The American victory on Lake Champlain led to the conclusion of U.S.-British peace negotiations in Belgium, and on December 24, 1814, the Treaty of Ghent was signed, ending the war. Although the treaty said nothing about two of the key issues that started the war--the rights of neutral U.S. vessels and the impressment of U.S. sailors--it did open up the Great Lakes region to American expansion and was hailed as a diplomatic victory in the United States. News of the treaty took almost two months to cross the Atlantic, and British forces were not informed of the end of hostilities in time to end their drive against the mouth of the Mississippi River. On January 8, 1815, a large British army attacked New Orleans and was decimated by an inferior American force under General Andrew Jackson in the most spectacular U.S. victory of the war. The American public heard of the Battle of New Orleans and the Treaty of Ghent at approximately the same time, fostering a greater sentiment of self-confidence and shared identity throughout the young republic."
This source would probably call it 3-1 for Vicomte13. "Tallying the winners and losers of the War of 1812 James Careless, Postmedia News | December 12, 2012 3:00 PM ET More from Postmedia News Douglas Coupland Twitter Google+ Reddit Email Typo? More Comments LinkedIn Tumblr Pinterest Digg FarkIt StumbleUpon The human cost of the War of 1812 was dramatic. Some 35,000 people were killed, wounded or missing at the end of the war. York (now Toronto), Niagara (now Niagara-on-the- Lake) and Washington, D.C. were torched. Elsewhere, homes and properties were looted and damaged and family lives were thrown into chaos. The borders between British North America and the United States might not have changed when the fighting stopped — the old lines were reconfirmed in the Treaty of Ghent, which ended the war on December 24, 1814. But once the treaty was signed, there wasn’t simply a return to the prewar status quo. There were wins and losses on both sides, and a new world order to navigate — not least for the continent’s native people. “For Canadians, the War of 1812 is the story of American invasions of Canada and the successful defence of British America by British regulars, Canadian regulars and militia, and First Peoples warriors,” says Peter Macleod, pre- Confederation historian and curator of the Canadian War Museum’s 1812 exhibition. “In short, we won because we repelled the invaders. The shared experience of standing up to the United States — in terms of resources and manpower, a Goliath to British North America’s David — united formerly separate British colonists and recent American immigrants. It forged the beginnings of a distinctly Canadian identity, even if it was negatively defined as ‘not American.’ ” Britain effectively won the War of 1812 by successfully defending its North American colonies. But for the British, the war with America had been a mere sideshow compared to its life-or-death struggle with Napoleon in Europe. This is why Britain agreed to maintain the prewar boundaries between the U.S. and British North America in the Treaty of Ghent, even though the Royal Navy’s blockade had effectively bankrupted the U.S. by mid-1814. “The British people were sick of war and unwilling to maintain a protracted battle with the Americans,” says Alan Taylor, the Pulitzer Prize-winning U.S. historian. “Meanwhile, the Royal Navy no longer needed to take British-born sailors off U.S. ships and impress them into involuntary service. This resolved the very issue that had ostensibly caused the conflict.” The United States, meanwhile, could claim to have won the war because they didn’t lose any territory in the Treaty of Ghent, says Wesley Turner, a retired associate professor of history at Brock University. “But more importantly, the British ceased supporting First Nations people in their fight against American settlement in the Midwest.” Although this goal was “barely mentioned by U.S. President James Madison in his War Message,” Turner says, it was central to U.S. ambitions and the reason why U.S. interior states supported the war. Up to 1812, the British had been arming natives defending their lands against U.S. encroachment. Afterwards, the British dropped this support and deserted their allies. With the Treaty of Ghent in place, the United States could move into native lands without fear of British opposition – and they seized the opportunity. The Americans also looked on the conflict as a victorious second war of Independence against Britain, says Macleod. “Seeing themselves as bullied and oppressed by the British Empire, they resorted to war and compelled Britain and the world to acknowledge American sovereignty and American power.” While Canada, Britain and America could all claim to have won the War of 1812 with justification, the people who were here first – North America’s indigenous population — definitely lost. “Native Americans that fought as British allies hoped that the support of a powerful European ally would allow them to roll back the American settlement frontier and secure their homelands and independence,” says Macleod. “Instead, they suffered a catastrophic defeat.” And the consequences for the winners and losers continue to play out today, 200 years after the War of 1812 began."
The fledgling United States was also embroiled with a concurrent war too---the Barbary Wars! The Brits weren't the only ones with too much on their war ''to do'' list.
Canada. And we have been paying for it ever since. All those Canadian geese keep coming down to the USA. That is the real border invasion.
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." (2 Timothy 3:16-17)
So let's get goose back on the U.S. kitchen table. Yes, we will cook their goose. BTW, have you ever eaten goose?
Had some years ago. Don't take to dark meat much.
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." (2 Timothy 3:16-17)
In the war of 1812 we lost the 13th amendment. The real one.
Explain please.
You're thinking of the Civil War and the Corwin Amendment. Technically, it's still on the books, open for ratification.
Technically, it's still on the books, open for ratification. No I'm talking about the 13th amendment. See above.
The "missing" 13th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States reads as follows: "If any citizen of the United States shall accept, claim, receive, or retain any title of nobility or honour, or shall without the consent of Congress, accept and retain any present, pension, office, or emolument of any kind whatever, from any emperor, king, prince, or foreign power, such person shall cease to be a citizen of the United States, and shall be incapable of holding any office of trust or profit under them, or either of them." [Emphasis added.}
Interesting. But they are determined to ignore it, regardless of the evidence.
mus·ter v.tr. 1. To call (troops) together, as for inspection. 2. To cause to come together; gather: Bring all the volunteers you can muster. 3. To bring into existence or readiness; summon up: mustering up her strength for the ordeal. See Synonyms at call. v.intr. To assemble or gather: mustering for inspection.
If you ... don't use exclamation points --- you should't be typeing ! Commas - semicolons - question marks are for girlie boys !
Interesting video Stone, thanks for posting! Get prepared though, some of your new friends here will be along to call you a CT, nutcase, kook, etc. etc. And they will deluge you with endless requests for proof, documentation, etc, etc. LOL
I was wondering who the conspirators were to published this 13th amendment in various books across the United States.
"If any citizen of the United States shall accept, claim, receive, or retain any title of nobility or honour, or shall without the consent of Congress, accept and retain any present, pension, office, or emolument of any kind whatever, from any emperor, king, prince, or foreign power, such person shall cease to be a citizen of the United States, and shall be incapable of holding any office of trust or profit under them, or either of them." [Emphasis added.} Thanks, I never heard of this. Obviously it never came up for a vote?
Are you referring to Article 13 instead of Amendment 13?
????????????
In our family we have goose every Christmas.
I don't recall ever having it. Why do you think it has fallen out of favor of with the American palate.
doesn’t cut the mustard wrong right cut the muster The world is ... awol - dull --- butcher knife !
If you ... don't use exclamation points --- you should't be typeing ! Commas - semicolons - question marks are for girlie boys !
It came up for a vote and passed in several states. It is a legitimate constitutional amendment. It is in the States mentioned archives as a constitutional amendment. When the national archives were burnt in the war of 1812 this was lost. Probably on purpose.
Amendment 13. The real one.
Ah, you are referring to the misspelling in the article. Duly noted.
Thanks. I was able to do a little research on this. Apparnetly there wasn't a drop dead for ratification so the Amendment is still out there for states to vote upon. It appears that ratification back then was just two states shy. Today it would have to get 3/4 of 50 states, or about 25-26 more states.
I don't think it was 2 states shy. Which two states?
From the easiest source but not the most reliable. "The Titles of Nobility Amendment is a proposed amendment to the United States Constitution. It was approved by the 11th Congress on May 1, 1810, and submitted to the state legislatures for ratification. Its purpose was to strip United States citizenship from any citizen who accepted a title of nobility from a foreign country. On two occasions between 1812 and 1816 it was within two states of the number needed to become a valid part of the Constitution. As Congress did not set a time limit for its ratification, the amendment is still technically pending before the states. Currently, ratification by an additional 26 states would be necessary for this amendment to be adopted."
There were two dudes I think. They already went and proved there was enough states. They went state by state and documented it. It was published in numerous books as a constitutional amendment. That it didn't pass by a couple of states is a cover story. That is my honest take.
That is my honest take. I'm fine. I didn't know about this amendment until you posted on it, so, thanks. It's a dead issue with little consequence IMO.
The Titles on Nobility Act, a proposed thirteenth amendment, was never ratified by three-fourths of the states. A few early sources mistakenly printed it along with the rest of the Constitution, thinking that it had been adopted. In a scholarly paper, Jol A. Silversmith covered this proposed amendment and its history in some detail. The link goes to an html version. It is 23 pages in my PDF copy. See http://www.thirdamendment.com/missing.html [excerpt] Jol A. Silversmith(*), 8 Southern California Interdisciplinary Law Journal 577 (April 1999) Postscript: Since this article was published, a court decision has confirmed that "[a]lthough some people claim that state publication of the erroneous Thirteenth Amendment makes it valid, Article V of the Constitution does not so provide." See Campion v. Towns, U.S. Dist. Ct. Ariz. No. CV-04-1516 (July 15, 2005), slip op. at p.2, fn.1. In addition, convicted murderers George Sibley and Linda Lyon -- who claimed that the "missing thirteenth amendment" justified their brutal killing of a police officer -- were executed in 2005 and 2002 respectively. See Florida Extremist Executed in Alabama for Killing Police Officer. [...] *. Law Clerk to the Justices of the Superior Court of Massachusetts. A.B., Harvard College, 1994; M.Sc., London School of Economics, 1995; J.D., Harvard Law School, 1998. The Author wishes to thank Richard B. Bernstein, Ralph H. Brock, Christine Desan, James W. Paulsen, Randy Ragsdale, David M. Rosenberg, Christopher M. Runkel, John R. Vile, and Gregory D. Watson for their assistance. 1. Resolution proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States, 2 Stat. 613 (1810). The Annals of Congress record that "Emperor," "King," "Prince," and "Power" were capitalized when Congress voted on the amendment. See 20 Annals of Cong. 671 (1810); 21 Annals of Cong. 2050 (1810). [snip]
I'm not sure it ever was big in America. America has turkeys - used to have huge flocks of them, and they don't fly away in the winter, and they are (or were) easier to kill, easy to breed (once people started doing that), and have more meat than geese. I think Americans always ate lots of turkey. Goose is a European thing. Where there are no turkeys, goose is the big bird. It's all dark meat and very greasy. I love it. The traditional English Christmas was goose. Goose is always big in France - foie gras, of course, but also goose gizzards, and braised goose. We stuff our goose with chataignes (European chestnuts), black rice (the Great Lakes "wild rice"), cranberries, some chopped walnuts and sage. The goosefat soaks into it and it's a very rich, very filling, and very fattening starch to go with the meat. Wine is too weak to drink with goose. You need cognac or strong ale to cut the taste. Whisky'll serve too, but not sweet whisky. Of course vodka works with it. But then, vodka goes with everything. Even oatmeal.
I really hate this particular proposed amendment. Glad it failed.
#2. To: Vicomte13, cranky (#1)
#3. To: vicomte13, cranky (#2)
#4. To: SOSO (#0)
#5. To: SOSO (#0)
Who Won The War Of 1812?
#6. To: redleghunter (#5)
All those Canadian geese keep coming down to the USA. That is the real border invasion.
#7. To: SOSO (#6)
#8. To: SOSO, nolu chan (#0)
#9. To: A K A Stone (#8)
In the war of 1812 we lost the 13th amendment. The real one.
#10. To: A K A Stone (#8)
In the war of 1812 we lost the 13th amendment. The real one.
#11. To: SOSO (#9)
#12. To: TooConservative (#10)
You're thinking of the Civil War and the Corwin Amendment.
#13. To: SOSO (#9)
#14. To: SOSO (#9)
#15. To: A K A Stone (#14)
#16. To: SOSO (#0)
doesn’t cut the mustard
#17. To: A K A Stone (#11)
#18. To: Stoner (#17)
#19. To: A K A Stone (#13)
The "missing" 13th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States reads as follows:
#20. To: A K A Stone (#18)
#21. To: BorisY (#16)
#22. To: SOSO (#6)
Have you eaten goose
#23. To: Vicomte13 (#22)
In our family we have goose every Christmas.
#24. To: SOSO (#21)
????????????
#25. To: SOSO (#19)
Thanks, I never heard of this. Obviously it never came up for a vote?
#26. To: SOSO (#20)
Are you referring to Article 13 instead of Amendment 13?
#27. To: BorisY (#24)
#28. To: A K A Stone (#25)
It came up for a vote and passed in several states. It is a legitimate constitutional amendment. It is in the States mentioned archives as a constitutional amendment. When the national archives were burnt in the war of 1812 this was lost. Probably on purpose.
#29. To: SOSO (#28)
It appears that ratification back then was just two states shy.
#30. To: A K A Stone (#29)
#31. To: SOSO (#30)
#32. To: A K A Stone (#31)
It was published in numerous books as a constitutional amendment. That it didn't pass by a couple of states is a cover story.
#33. To: A K A Stone (#8)
In the war of 1812 we lost the 13th amendment. The real one.
The "Missing Thirteenth Amendment": Constitutional Nonsense and Titles of Nobility
If any citizen of the United States shall accept, claim, receive or retain any title of nobility or honour, or shall, without the consent of Congress, accept and retain any present, pension, office or emolument of any kind whatever, from any emperor, king, prince or foreign power, such person shall cease to be a citizen of the United States, and shall be incapable of holding any office of trust or profit under them, or either of them.(1)
#34. To: SOSO (#23)
I don't recall ever having it. Why do you think it has fallen out of favor of with the American palate.
#35. To: nolu chan (#33)
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