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New Discovery! 2023 Hottest in over 120 Million Years 2024 and beyond in prophecy Questions Status: Not Logged In; Sign In Religion See other Religion Articles Title: The Problem Isn’t Islam … It’s ALL Religious Fundamentalism Source: washingtonsblog URL Source: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014 ... amentalists-just-muslisms.html Published: Aug 26, 2014 Author: washingtonsblog Post Date: 2015-01-20 15:49:51 by Gatlin Keywords: None Views: 23419 Comments: 78 While the Koran Calls for Violence, The Bible Is Even Worse … Calling for Genocide Christians and Jews rightly point out that the Koran is a violent text which calls on Muslims to attack “unbelievers”. But they fail to see that the Bible is at least as violent. Click to Read the rest. Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 68. #3. To: Gatlin (#0) (Edited) Once again, Comrade, your penchant for taking things out of context is dead on: 1 Samuel 15 New International Version (NIV) "1. Samuel said to Saul, “I am the one the Lord sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the Lord. 2. This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’” The God described in the Bible was always considered vengeful, but never without some reason for vengeance. To be fair, the Bible also says that God committed near total annihilation of the world just because He was sick of it at the moment... Also, Saul's time (1050 BC) was well before Mohammed's time (570 AD), and can be considered part of the Islamic, Jewish, and Christian shared history. The God in the story (or historical account, depending on your stance) is the same, and the actions and results could also be considered shared. This alone discounts the assertion that Christianity's version of God and faith is bloodier and crueler than Islam's when using this reference. Unless I am mistaken, most of the blood shed by Christians happened after the birth of Islam, and it can hardly be considered a one-way street. . . . I bet ol' Gats has a metric sh*te-tonne of research that will back up the good professor Philip Jenkins claims that Christians are mush bloodier than Muslims. Why, just look and the Middle East right now. So much "peace" that you cannot even walk a straight line for 10 miles without bumping into one of the ISIS "emissaries of peace"!!! TheFireBert  posted on  2015-01-20   17:39:02 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #11. To: TheFireBert (#3) Once again, Comrade, your penchant for taking things out of context is dead on: I took nothing out of context. I only posted the article. If you want to ask me if I agree or disagree with the author, then please do so. I bet ol' Gats has a metric sh*te-tonne of research that will back up the good professor Philip Jenkins claims that Christians are mush bloodier than Muslims. Why, just look and the Middle East right now. So much "peace" that you cannot even walk a straight line for 10 miles without bumping into one of the ISIS "emissaries of peace"!!! Nope, ol'w Gats has done no such research. Gatlin  posted on  2015-01-20   18:30:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #50. To: Gatlin (#11) (Edited) If you want to ask me if I agree or disagree with the author, then please do so. That is actually an excellent question: where exactly are you on this issue? Mind you, the issue is multi-topical - religious sects, definition of fundamentalist, violence in religion, etc. I have my own reservations about fundamentalism in general, and how each major religion handles and uses the term. This site has a very simplified primer on the differences between Christian and Islamic fundamentalism, and kinda strays into "religion of peace" territory when explaining away how the majority of Muslims do not wish to visit violence upon others. If one were to take in what is reported in news across the world today, they would get a much fuzzier picture of what Islamic fundamentalism is, and how easy it is to transform it into a jihad against the infidels. Any time you have a religious ideology, not matter how far from mainstream it may be, demanding that society adopt its laws and beliefs, it is a recipe for disaster when enough people subscribe to its madness. And I would not say that whole nations have called for genocide in the recent past, but we have had religious and political leaders in Muslim-dominant countries that have done just that, along with mutterings of destruction for western nations. This is in stark contrast to what Christian fundamentalism is. Yes, there are some that believe that homosexuals are deviants and that you should burn in hell if you work on Sunday, but at worst the average modern Christian fundamentalist could be considered champions of the status-quot. They would like to return to a more morals-based society, but are more concerned with proving that the Bible is 90-100% true than forcing society as a whole to a theocratic rule which could possibly include some of the cruelest punishments known to man. And the key term is "Christ"ian. Any argument that poses that Christians would want to return to the Old Testament style of living would do better talking to a fundamentalist Jew about how the Old Testament fits in to modern life. Anyone who walks under the banner of Christ would know that much of the old laws were abandoned once the teachings of Jesus spread. On the violence in the recorded texts of the Bible and the Qur'an, the Bible makes mostly historical references to specific violence related to events in a specific context. In places where violence may be implied, it is often metaphorical or talked about in an external influence, rather than a direct call to arms. The Old Testament was heavily coded with violent episodes of military campaign, while the New Testament, which is based on history after Jesus' birth, is recorded as primer in non-violent living. In contrast, there are numerous accounts of direct, open-ended calls of violence to be visited upon non-believers, foreigners, and those who turn from Islam to another religion found in the texts of the Qur'an and other historical records of Mohammad. Even the contrast of personalities and gravity toward violence is evident in the texts when referring to both Jesus and Mohammed. One was a near perfect pacifist, and the other a military leader and prophet who often decreed that Allah said it was OK to kill and loot as long as you were aggrieved. Of course, there is plenty of content out there to call all of this text a lie; who are any of us to know the past truth, rather than look into the current affairs of mankind? TheFireBert  posted on  2015-01-21   0:20:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #56. To: TheFireBert (#50) I found your post interesting and informative. I have never read the Koran or the Bible. Therefore I am not a student of either and I have no interest to become one. I posted the article because the title held my attention when I ran across a link to it while reading another article. I am a person who can make a decision, but I do so only after I have all the facts. Furthermore, I am a person who continues to look for the facts and ask questions until I get them. The unanswered question foremost in my mind about the subject brought forth in the article is: Are all these people wrong when the say the bible calls for genocide? The answer to that is: I don’t know. Up until now, I never considered whether the Bible did or did not all for genocide. Before I finish reading all information I find available, I will not be able to say whether it does or does not. The dilemma I continually face is: Who is to dictate interpretation when biblical scholars can't agree? I am not evading an answer, I am simply saying that I don’t have one yet….there is a difference. Proverbs 29:20 - Do you see a man who is hasty in his words? There is more hope for a fool than for him. Gatlin  posted on  2015-01-21   1:39:38 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #58. To: Gatlin (#56) Are all these people wrong when the say the bible calls for genocide? ... Up until now, I never considered whether the Bible did or did not all for genocide. There is a large measure of faith that generally dictates one's belief that a God, as merciful as both the Qur'an and the Bible lead us to believe, would not prescribe wholesale genocide. I believe that a large number of people tend to interject what they think a God would say into a belief system, whether true or not, for their own selfish reasons. Such as I believe Mohammad, or his followers, may have done; such as I believe the Christians of the Dark Ages may have done. To read the Bible in a nearly literal manner, one can come to the conclusion that the God in the Bible often called to eradicate an enemy of the children of Israel, and we must understand that in those times leaving some of the enemy could spell disaster at a later time. This same God often set goals as a test, not to wipe out an enemy, but to test the resolve of the key figure in the story. Also, we could easily suppose that the rules of war in those times often resulted in the complete annihilation of the opposite party. It can also be interpreted that every call to attack an enemy of God was provoked by either a irrecoverable behavioral pattern or the consequence of an attack on the children of Israel. Whatever the interpretations, the history of the Bible is also the history of the descendents of Islam and the Jews. Whatever we end up blaming Christianity for in the Old Testament, we must also place an equal amount of blame on the other two religious offspring of Abraham: Judaism and Islam. To not do so would be to lie to yourself and reject reality. TheFireBert  posted on  2015-01-21   3:05:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #61. To: TheFireBert (#58) Someone smarter than I can ever hope to be once noted:      "What’s important is what you think about after you read, what you conclude, what you do with what you read," While I speed read, there are times when I stop and reread something again. I did that when reading the information you presented to me here. In fact, I reread it three times. Although I have good retention when speed reading, I find the slower I read, the higher my understanding soars. I liked what I read….I liked it very much. In fact, I was impressed and at age 81 and having accomplished what I have in life, I am not easily impressed. To keep this brief (something I confess to have trouble doing)….I will extract only one of the many good points you made and comment on it, I hope that meets with your approval. You said:      I believe that a large number of people tend to interject what they think a God would say into a belief system, whether true or not, for their own selfish reasons. Absolutely! To that, I would emphatically add: They use religious freedom as a dogma to turn it into a personal code and attempt to impose “their” Christian beliefs on others. Actually, they try to shove “their” religious “beliefs” down the throats of others. In doing this, they often times form an authoritarian group that seeks to impinge on the right of others. It is as though these professed Christians become tyrants, while I think the true followers of Jesus Christ will never seek to infringe on the rights of others. As Christians see the importance of having a higher authority than themselves, they should not want to impose “their” values and interpretations of what is right and wrong on others. To quote you….amirite?!? It is refreshing to finally find someone with the knowledge and attitude necessary for me to use as my “go to guy” when I have a question or need a clarification on religion. I hope that it be okay with you if I do that. You make more sense in your posts about religion than all the others here combined. That is refreshing, to say the least. In addition to that, you are courteous and not condescending. I wish I had more time to chat, but I am on my way to the dentist. Catch you later…. Gatlin  posted on  2015-01-21   8:45:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #68. To: Gatlin (#61) They use religious freedom as a dogma to turn it into a personal code and attempt to impose “their” Christian beliefs on others. Actually, they try to shove “their” religious “beliefs” down the throats of others. In doing this, they often times form an authoritarian group that seeks to impinge on the right of others. It is as though these professed Christians become tyrants, while I think the true followers of Jesus Christ will never seek to infringe on the rights of others. I am far from a source or expert on religion, thermodynamics, or universal remote controls. All are too complicated for one man to understand correctly or safely. . . Unfortunately, the image that most people see today is that [all] Christians "'try to shove “their” religious “beliefs” down the throats of others'". While I may consider myself a Christian (based on my beliefs and what I find to be true in a well know historical account that began with many bloody beginnings) I do not consider the practice of trying to sway public opinion of what I think is moral an attempt to shove it down their collective throats. This is, of course, a matter of how one could interpret the actions of others without the context of intent and meaning. It is also up to the delivery of the actions. This being said, I do not think that most Christians are either prepared nor qualified to argue their beliefs well enough to sway anyone to their way of thinking, and often this causes an impression of aggression, force, and dogmatic dictation. In reality, I think over 80% of the population would be in the same boat since the mental capacity of a Christian is the same as any other human being, and thus could be calculated into the average of the population. Often the attempt to sway others ends up being an overly pushy affair, or the receiving end over-thinks the encounter then shares their opinionated recount of the event. And you are correct: a true believer would not seek to infringe upon the rights of others. The debatable point is that they may seek to shape society into the image of Christ where one could do so. God spake that the laws of man must be followed; it was always implied that God's will be done before the law of menpg 227-228. The idea of a "true Christian" is also a subjective identity which depends on what your stance is on religious affairs. What you may consider a true Christian could be applied as a black/white filter, and many Christians would consider the definition more dynamic. This ties into the recent article you posted about "grey" Christians, but in many instances it can all be a bit grey. Christ was considered to be a transformer of culture, a defining element of innocence and rightly living. Although He showed tolerance to others, it was never meant to be a sign of acceptance. Numerous accounts in the Bible show the characters following the law where they are forced to do so, and attempting to change the law where the opportunity exists to bring about a righteous change. TheFireBert  posted on  2015-01-21   13:56:07 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   Replies to Comment # 68.         There are no replies to Comment # 68. End Trace Mode for Comment # 68. Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

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