Bible Study
See other Bible Study Articles
Title: KING JAMES VS NEW KING JAMES THEY CAN'T BOTH BE TRUE!
Source:
[None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: Jan 19, 2015
Author: David W. Daniels
Post Date: 2015-01-19 18:43:40 by _V_
Keywords: None
Views: 42188
Comments: 105
Question: What is wrong with the New King James Version (NKJV)? All it does is modernize the words of the King James Bible, right? Why should I read the King James and not the helpful New King James? Answer: The New King James is not a King James Bible. It changed thousands of words, ruined valuable verses, and when not agreeing with the King James Bible, it has instead copied the perverted NIV, NASV or RSV. And this you must know: those who translated the NKJV did not believe God perfectly preserved His words! I have gotten more letters on this question than almost any other. This is very important to those who want God's truth in the English language. I myself used the NKJV for a decade before I learned the truth about the preserved words of God. Here is some of what convinced me to switch to the King James Bible from the "New King James." Changed Words Means Changed Meanings We know that Bible versions disagree on how to translate certain words. Here is an example: Is Jesus God's "Son" or God's "servant"? In Acts 3:26, the NKJV calls Jesus God's "Servant." The KJV correctly calls Him God’s "Son." These are not the same by any stretch of the imagination. Which one is He? If He is God's servant, so are you and I. If He is God's Son, then we all need to listen to what He said, because He is God! Changed words like this make a great deal of difference in how we understand a passage. Loss of "thee" and "thou" Please decide what God is saying to Moses: "And the LORD said to Moses, "How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws?" (Exodus 16:28, NKJV) It looks like God is saying, "Moses, you are continuing to refuse to keep My commandments and My laws." But look carefully at the accurate King James: "And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?" Now we understand! It was the people, not Moses, that God was upset with. "Ye" and "you" mean more than one person. "Thee," "thou," "thy," "thine," "doeth," "hast," etc., only mean one person. How do we know? The "y" is plural. The "t" is singular. Isn't that easy? Now you know what Jesus meant when He said to Nicodemus, "Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again" (John 3:7). What Jesus said was, "Nicodemus, marvel not that I said unto thee, all of you need to be born again." This is very important. Not only Nicodemus needed to be saved. But everybody, including him, needed to be born again. That's why Jesus used the plural. But there is more of a problem than the thousands of times "thee" and "thou" are removed from God's words. What does a word mean? This is very important, as you shall see. Go to Gehenna? The NKJV claims to be "more accurate" because it leaves untranslated words like "Gehenna," "Hades" and "Sheol." What do they mean? You will know from the King James the exact meaning: "hell." We know what that means. Meaning is very important. When's the last time you heard someone told to "Go to Gehenna"? Which is correct? The NKJV consistently uses terms that don't mean the same as in the King James Bible. Here are some examples: King James Version New King James Version 2 Corinthians 2:17 "For we are not as many which corrupt the word of God" "peddling the word of God" (like the NIV, NASV and RSV) Titus 3:10 "A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject" "Reject a divisive man" (like the NIV) 1 Thessalonians 5:22 "Abstain from all appearance of evil." "Abstain from every form of evil." (like the NAS, RSV and ASV) Isaiah 66:5 "Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed." [This means that the LORD shall appear, which shall occur at the Second Coming of Christ.] "Hear the word of the LORD, you who tremble at His word: "Your brethren who hated you, who cast you out for My name's sake, said, 'Let the LORD be glorified, that we may see your joy.' But they shall be ashamed." (Like the NIV, NASV, RSV and ASV, the Second Coming is wholly omitted from this scripture.) Both translations cannot be correct. If one is right, the other has to be wrong. No matter how you slice it, the NKJV does not have the same meaning as the accurate King James Bible. 2. Changed Affections There is a lot of evidence that the translators and publishers did not believe God preserved His words. Thomas Nelson Publishers The NKJV was translated and is printed under the watchful eye of Thomas Nelson Publishers. Here is part of a timeline they published. 1969 Sam Moore purchases Thomas Nelson Publishers, vowing to return it to its once proud place among the leading publishers of the world. 1976 Nelson initiates the creation of a new Bible translation--The New King James Version. 1980's Nelson reclaims its place as a premier publisher of Bibles and Christian Books, expands into international markets, and establishes Markings® as Nelson's Gift division. It is clear the NKJV made Thomas Nelson Publishers a lot of money. Did a King James-type Bible renew their hearts to God? Note the following facts: They are also the publishers of the American Standard Version, the American revision of Westcott and Hort's perverted English Revised Version. They are also the publishers of the Revised Standard Version, the revision of the American Standard. To this day they continue to sell at least six Bible perversions. The NKJV was just one moneymaker that helped Nelson "reclaim its place" as a major publisher. The NKJV repeats the lie that "There is only one basic New Testament used by Protestants, Roman Catholics, and Orthodox, by conservatives and liberals." In fact, there are two: the perverted Alexandrian line that was continued by the Roman Catholic religion and the preserved, apostolic, Antiochian line that progresses from the Christians at Antioch of Syria (Acts 11:26) to our precious King James Bible. The New King James translators Marion H. Reynolds Jr. of the Fundamental Evangelistic Association reveals a little-known fact: "The duplicity of the NKJV scholars is also a matter for concern. Although each scholar was asked to subscribe to a statement confirming his belief in the plenary, divine, verbal inspiration of the original autographs (none of which exist today), the question of whether or not they also believed in the divine preservation of the divinely inspired originals was not an issue as it should have been. Dr. Arthur Farstad, chairman of the NKJV Executive Review Committee which had the responsibility of final text approval, stated that this committee was about equally divided as to which was the better Greek New Testament text-the Textus Receptus or the Westcott-Hort. Apparently none of them believed that either text was the Divinely preserved Word of God. Yet, all of them participated in a project to "protect and preserve the purity and accuracy" of the original KJV based on the TR. Is not this duplicity of the worst kind, coming from supposedly evangelical scholars?" Not "the real thing" What Mr. Reynolds points out is very important to understand. There were basically two groups of translators working on the NKJV. One half believed that the perverted 45 Alexandrian manuscripts, from which came the Roman Catholic Bibles and the modern perversions, were better than the manuscripts behind the King James. The other group believed the thousands of manuscripts supporting the King James were better. This is a big problem: No one believed that they held God's words in their hands, only a "better" or "worse" text! The translators believed they had something close, but not an accurate Bible. It is a sad thing when a Bible translator doesn't even believe he has God's words in his hands. It sounds like they don't believe God kept His promise: Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. (Mark 13:31) Perhaps that is why some of them had no problem working on other perversions, both before and after working on the NKJV. This is so unlike the 54+ Bible men who faithfully translated the King James Bible from preserved manuscripts of God's words. The difference between the King James and the "New" King James is the difference between day and night. Compromising God's Words Many Christians are discovering the miracle of God's words in English. But the enemy has tried to insert a monkey-wrench: the NKJV. Pastors approve it, "scholars" promote it, but the NKJV is a wolf in sheep's clothing. The New King James is just a compromise between the liberal, perverted Bible versions floating around and the rock-solid, accurate and preserved words of God, the King James Bible. Brothers and sisters, don't settle for anything less than God's words
Post Comment Private Reply Ignore Thread
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest
Comments (1-57) not displayed.
.
.
.
#58. To: BobCeleste, Pericles, TooConservative, _V_, redleghunter, SOSO, Orthodoxa, A Pole, Vicomte13, redleghunter, GarySpFc, all (#41)
11 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD: How does Babel work into this? The story from the NIV, not an enforsement but just a matter of convenience: Genesis 11 New International Version (NIV) The Tower of Babel 11 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. 2 As people moved eastward,[a] they found a plain in Shinar[b] and settled there. 3 They said to each other, “Come, let’s make bricks and bake them thoroughly.” They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. 4 Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.” 5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. 6 The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.” 8 So the Lord scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. 9 That is why it was called Babel[c]—because there the Lord confused the language of the whole world. From there the Lord scattered them over the face of the whole earth. Has man ever overcome this confusion?
Maybe it was ancient aliens after all................
This would somewhat problematical for the Universal Redeemer to do. Who was in the audience when He gave the Sermon on the Mount? Only Hebrews? Did those around that bear witness to Him speak all the languages that Christ may have used? What about the writtings about Him in and around His time on earth? Only Greek?
And "live", "exist" and "to be" are all the same word in Hebrew. The name YHWH can be translated into Greek or English as a sort of Venn diagram, a range of things. It's a feature of God to be ineffable. {Sigh}
Today it doesn't. Originally, who knows? What it has is a pictograph, a waw or vav, is a tent peg. It's used to link one thing to the next, like a nail. There's no punctuation in Hebrew, but the tent peg tells you that these ideas are still connected with the ones before. If you take the pictographs YHWH. Y - yod - is a strong arm and hand. So, you've got the hand of God here. H - hey - is a pictograph of a man standing arms raised in exciting: HEY! It's sound is that of a breath, and it is used to insert a breath. Now, in Hebrew, breath is spirit, and spirit is breath. W is the tent peg. The word HWH - HaWaH (which we translate as "Eve", and then we continue to translate as "Life" as the MEANING of "Eve" (Adam called her "Eve", because she was the mother of all living - in other words, Adam called her "life"). What is "life" pictographically? It is BREATH linked to BREATH. Breath after breath after breath - that is the pictographic image of life and living in ancient Hebrew, and the WORD for Life, and being. And the "Yah" part - the yod? YHWH, hieroglyphically, is the hand that links breath/spirit to breath/spirit. In other words, the power/thing/being who makes life be. YHWH - The might hand of life - God. Pronunciation varies, and varied. If you followed the letter conventions, without vowels, it would be (today) Yo (yod) - Hey - Wa (or Va) - Hey: Yoheyvahey, or Yohewahey. Of course, "Life", and "Eve" are pronounced "Havah" (as in "Havah nagila", the song). And HWH, the last three letters of YHWH, are Havah, for God is life. Y is often written "Yah", and if we take that, we have "Yahavah". If we go with "Yod", then Yohavah or Yohawah. YHWH is the best way to write this, I think, and if you're got to pronounce it, choose what you prefer. I prefer "Yahawah", because that takes two known elements; Yah and Havah, and carries the meaning Yah is life, and then converts the V to the W to make a distinction that is important not in modern Hebrew but in ancient, when there were no vowel points but W was used as a vowel. V is not a vowel by its fricative nature. W is open, and can be a vowel (in English: Bryn Mwr uses W as a vowel). In Massoretic Hebrew, Vav takes a vowel point to make an "O", but in ancient Hebrew Waw/Vav stood alone. In the Massoretic Text, David is spelled DVD - Dalet - Vav - Dalet, with vowel points. But in the Dead Sea Scrolls, where there are no vowel points, "David" is spelled DWYD: Dalet, Waw (Vav) Yod Dalet - Dawyd, since the Waw is elsewhere employed as a vowel. Or, if you prefer, Davyd. The "Da" sound is carried by the Da-let, maybe W/V was pronounced "V", but elsewhere it works where we would put and "o" - so Da-O-Y-D. Reminds me of the priest in the Princess Bride: "Mawiage. Mawiage when there is wuv, twoo wuv..." Don't really know the ancient pronunciations, but there is revelation in the pictographs.
Not the Vulgate! Did you translate the LXX Genesis, or the MT Genesis, or a Dead Sea Scroll Genesis portion?
God's message is analog, not digital. "Because you know it's all about that bass, 'bout that bass, no treble!" - Meghan Traynor
That is a pedestrian line of questioning/musing, I am sorry to say. Also, the gift of speaking in tongues bestowed on the Apostles answers your question. Maybe it is troubling because you grew up with the "personal relationship with Jesus" posters or some such but Jesus is not your pal and he, knowing best, decided that his time on earth was for the people of Abraham with which he had a covenant with and then the Apostles would take over and continue on the next phase of his ministry. Why did Jesus do it like that? I don't know. It is His creation and we are all living in it.
Lost me on this one.
I wonder which one of my math texts in school was true.
Talk about a pedestrian line. LMAO.
I wonder which one of my math texts in school was true. According to Common Cause none of them.
Core
Or at least a healthy debate/discussion on such.
"Let the inspired Scripture, then, be our umpire, and the vote of truth will surely be given to those whose dogmas are found to agree with the Divine words." Gregory of Nyssa
Core Sorry, yes, Common Core.
I think you mean "Aramic". Aramic was the language spoken.
Good comeback though.
For the last couple of years, thoughts on ChristianPatriot.com have been in response to questions and discussions. I think if you visit www.ChristianPatriot.com you can get a feel for what is being discussed and asked.
It doesn't, not as far as I can see. Babel was in direct response to the disobedience, by the people to God's command to go worldwide. They all stayed in one place so God confused their languages casing them to go their separate ways.
Obviously God didn't approve of a One World Order:) However, did He ever unconfuse their languages?
I think you need to read Genesis chapters 1-11 Genesis Chapter One 1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. 6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. 9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. 11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 13 And the evening and the morning were the third day. 14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth. 18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day. 20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. 21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. 23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day. 24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 26 And God said, Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them. 28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. 29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. 30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. 31 And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis Chapter Two 1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had made; and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it He had rested from all His work which God created and made. 4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, 5 and every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. 6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. 7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. 8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there He put the man whom He had formed. 9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. 10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads. 11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold; 12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone. 13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia. 14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates. 15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. 18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. 19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. 20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him. 21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and He (God) took one of his (Adams) ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; 22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made He a woman, and brought her unto the man. 23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. 25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed. Genesis Chapter Three 1 Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 2 And the woman said unto the serpent, "We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, 'Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.'" 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. 6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. 7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons. 8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden. 9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou? 10 And he (Adam) said, "I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself." 11 And He said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat? 12 And the man said, "The woman whom Thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat." 13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, "The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat." 14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: 15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; It (Jesus) shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise His (Jesus) heel. 16 Unto the woman He said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. 17 And unto Adam He said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. 20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living. 21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them. 22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of Us (Father, Son & Holy Ghost), to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. Genesis Chapter Four 1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD. 2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. 3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD. 4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: 5 But unto Cain and to his offering He had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. 6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? 7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? And if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door: and unto thee shall be his (sin) desire, and thuou shalt rule over him (sin). 8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him. 9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, "I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?" 10 And He said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground. 11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand; 12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth. 13 And Cain said unto the LORD, "My punishment is greater than I can bear. 14 Behold, Thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from Thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me." 15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him. 16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden. 17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he built a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch. 18 And unto Enoch was born Irad: and Irad begat Mehujael: and Mehujael begat Methusael: and Methusael begat Lamech. 19 And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah. 20 And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle. 21 And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ. 22 And Zillah, she also bare Tubalcain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubalcain was Naamah. 23 And Lamech said unto his wives, Adah and Zillah, "Hear my voice; ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech: for I have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man to my hurt. 24 If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold." 25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, she said, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew. 26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD. Genesis Chapter Five 1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made He him; 2 Male and female created He them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. 3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth: 4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters: 5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died. 6 And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos: 7 And Seth lived after he begat Enos eight hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters: 8 And all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years: and he died. 9 And Enos lived ninety years, and begat Cainan: 10 And Enos lived after he begat Cainan eight hundred and fifteen years, and begat sons and daughters: 11 And all the days of Enos were nine hundred and five years: and he died. 12 And Cainan lived seventy years, and begat Mahalaleel: 13 And Cainan lived after he begat Mahalaleel eight hundred and forty years, and begat sons and daughters: 14 And all the days of Cainan were nine hundred and ten years: and he died. 15 And Mahalaleel lived sixty and five years, and begat Jared: 16 And Mahalaleel lived after he begat Jared eight hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters: 17 And all the days of Mahalaleel were eight hundred ninety and five years: and he died. 18 And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch: 19 And Jared lived after he begat Enoch eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: 20 And all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died. 21 And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah: 22 And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: 23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: 24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him. 25 And Methuselah lived an hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech: 26 And Methuselah lived after he begat Lamech seven hundred eighty and two years, and begat sons and daughters: 27 And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died. 28 And Lamech lived an hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son: 29 And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed. 30 And Lamech lived after he begat Noah five hundred ninety and five years, and begat sons and daughters: 31 And all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy and seven years: and he died. 32 And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth. Genesis Chapter Six 1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. 3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. 4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. 5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And it repented the LORD that He had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. 8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. 9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God. 10 And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth. 11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. 12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth. 13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before Me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth. 14 Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch. 15 And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits. 16 A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; with lower, second, and third stories shalt thou make it. 17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die. 18 But with thee will I establish My covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee. 19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female. 20 Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive. 21 And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them. 22 Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he. Genesis Chapter Seven 1 And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before Me in this generation. 2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female. 3 Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth. 4 For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth. 5 And Noah did according unto all that the LORD commanded him. 6 And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth. 7 And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood. 8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth. 9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah. 10 And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth. 11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. 12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights. 13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark; 14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort. 15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life. 16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in. 17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth. 18 And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters. 19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. 20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered. 21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man: 22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died. 23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark. 24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days. 1 And God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the cattle that was with him in the ark: and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters asswaged; 2 The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained; 3 And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated. 4 And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat. 5 And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen. 6 And it came to pass at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made: 7 And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the waters were dried up from off the earth. 8 Also he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground; 9 But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark. 10 And he stayed yet other seven days; and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark; 11 And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth. 12 And he stayed yet other seven days; and sent forth the dove; which returned not again unto him any more. 13 And it came to pass in the six hundredth and first year, in the first month, the first day of the month, the waters were dried up from off the earth: and Noah removed the covering of the ark, and looked, and, behold, the face of the ground was dry. 14 And in the second month, on the seven and twentieth day of the month, was the earth dried. 15 And God spake unto Noah, saying, 16 Go forth of the ark, thou, and thy wife, and thy sons, and thy sons' wives with thee. 17 Bring forth with thee every living thing that is with thee, of all flesh, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth; that they may breed abundantly in the earth, and be fruitful, and multiply upon the earth. 18 And Noah went forth, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him: 19 Every beast, every creeping thing, and every fowl, and whatsoever creepeth upon the earth, after their kinds, went forth out of the ark. 20 And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar. 21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in His heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done. 22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease. 1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. 2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered. 3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. 4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat. 5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man. 6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made He man. 7 And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein. 8 And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying, 9 And I, behold, I establish My covenant with you, and with your seed after you; 10 And with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth. 11 And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth. 12 And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between Me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations: 13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between Me and the earth. 14 And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud: 15 And I will remember My covenant, which is between Me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh. 16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth. 17 And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between Me and all flesh that is upon the earth. 18 And the sons of Noah, that went forth of the ark, were Shem, and Ham, and Japheth: and Ham is the father of Canaan. 19 These are the three sons of Noah: and of them was the whole earth overspread. 20 And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard: 21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent. 22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without. 23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness. 24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him. 25 And he said, "Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren." 26 And he said, "Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. 27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant." 28 And Noah lived after the flood three hundred and fifty years. 29 And all the days of Noah were nine hundred and fifty years: and he died. 1 Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood. 2 The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras. 3 And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah. 4 And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim. 5 By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations. 6 And the sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, and Phut, and Canaan. 7 And the sons of Cush; Seba, and Havilah, and Sabtah, and Raamah, and Sabtecha: and the sons of Raamah; Sheba, and Dedan. 8 And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth. 9 He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD. 10 And the beginning of his (Nimrod's) kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar. 11 Out of that land went forth Asshur, and builded Nineveh, and the city Rehoboth, and Calah, 12 And Resen between Nineveh and Calah: the same is a great city. 13 And Mizraim begat Ludim, and Anamim, and Lehabim, and Naphtuhim, 14 and Pathrusim, and Casluhim, (out of whom came Philistim,) and Caphtorim. 15 And Canaan begat Sidon his firstborn, and Heth. 16 And the Jebusite, and the Amorite, and the Girgasite, 17 And the Hivite, and the Arkite, and the Sinite, 18 And the Arvadite, and the Zemarite, and the Hamathite: and afterward were the families of the Canaanites spread abroad. 19 And the border of the Canaanites was from Sidon, as thou comest to Gerar, unto Gaza; as thou goest, unto Sodom, and Gomorrah, and Admah, and Zeboim, even unto Lasha. 20 These are the sons of Ham, after their families, after their tongues, in their countries, and in their nations. 21 Unto Shem also, the father of all the children of Eber, the brother of Japheth the elder, even to him were children born. 22 The children of Shem; Elam, and Asshur, and Arphaxad, and Lud, and Aram. 23 And the children of Aram; Uz, and Hul, and Gether, and Mash. 24 And Arphaxad begat Salah; and Salah begat Eber. 25 And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan. 26 And Joktan begat Almodad, and Sheleph, and Hazarmaveth, and Jerah, 27 And Hadoram, and Uzal, and Diklah, 28 And Obal, and Abimael, and Sheba, 29 And Ophir, and Havilah, and Jobab: all these were the sons of Joktan. 30 And their dwelling was from Mesha, as thou goest unto Sephar a mount of the east. 31 These are the sons of Shem, after their families, after their tongues, in their lands, after their nations. 32 These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood. 1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech. 2 And it came to pass, as they (decedents of Nimrod, the son of Cush, the son of Noah) journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there. 3 And they said one to another, "Go to, let us make brick, and burn them throughly". And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter. 4 And they said, "Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth." 5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. 6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. 7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. 8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city. 9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth. 10 These are the generations of Shem: Shem was an hundred years old, and begat Arphaxad two years after the flood: 11 And Shem lived after he begat Arphaxad five hundred years, and begat sons and daughters. 12 And Arphaxad lived five and thirty years, and begat Salah: 13 And Arphaxad lived after he begat Salah four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters. 14 And Salah lived thirty years, and begat Eber: 15 And Salah lived after he begat Eber four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters. 16 And Eber lived four and thirty years, and begat Peleg: 17 And Eber lived after he begat Peleg four hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters. 18 And Peleg lived thirty years, and begat Reu: 19 And Peleg lived after he begat Reu two hundred and nine years, and begat sons and daughters. 20 And Reu lived two and thirty years, and begat Serug: 21 And Reu lived after he begat Serug two hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters. 22 And Serug lived thirty years, and begat Nahor: 23 And Serug lived after he begat Nahor two hundred years, and begat sons and daughters. 24 And Nahor lived nine and twenty years, and begat Terah: 25 And Nahor lived after he begat Terah an hundred and nineteen years, and begat sons and daughters. 26 And Terah lived seventy years, and begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran. 27 Now these are the generations of Terah: Terah begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran begat Lot. 28 And Haran died before his father Terah in the land of his nativity, in Ur of the Chaldees. 29 And Abram and Nahor took them wives: the name of Abram's wife was Sarai; and the name of Nahor's wife, Milcah, the daughter of Haran, the father of Milcah, and the father of Iscah. 30 But Sarai was barren; she had no child. 31 And Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son's son, and Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram's wife; and he went forth with them from Ur of the Chaldees, to go into the land of Canaan; and they came unto Haran, and dwelt there. 32 And the days of Terah were two hundred and five years: and Terah died in Haran.
It was a stupid joke on my part. Forget I ever wrote it.
I think the best way to explain what I did is to show you how I do it. Over the next few days or weeks I am going to be doing Remember me, from Luke 23: 39 And [de] one [heis] of the malefactors [kakourgos] which were hanged [kremannumi] railed [blasphemeo] on him [autos], saying [lego], If [ei] thou [su] be [ei] Christ [Christos], save [sozo] thyself [seautou] and [kai] us [hemas]. 40 But [de] the other [heteros] answering [apokrinomai] rebuked [epitimao] him [autos], saying [lego], Dost [phobeo] not [oude] thou [su] fear [phobeo] God [theos], seeing [hoti] thou art [ei] in [en] the same [autos] condemnation [krima]? 41 And [kai] we [hemeis] indeed [men] justly [dikaios]; for [gar] we receive [apolambano] the due reward [axios] of our [hos] deeds [prasso]: but [de] this man [houtos] hath done [prasso] nothing [oudeis] amiss [atopos]. 42 And [kai] he said [lego] unto Jesus [Iesous], Lord [kurios], remember [mnaomai] me [mou] when [hotan] thou comest [erchomai] into [en] thy [sou] kingdom [basileia]. 43 And [kai] Jesus [Iesous] said [epo] unto him [autos], Verily [amen] I say [lego] unto thee [soi], To day [semeron] shalt thou be [esomai] with [meta] me [emou] in [en] paradise [paradeisos]. Now, since I am in NM, not Maine, I have a very limited number of study guides available, none of my Hebrew and but many of the Greek, so I need to stay with the NT. I hope, I can answer your questions as I go.
And your point is (25 words or less if you can, please)?
I see what you've done. Splendid. I'd like to see it for Genesis 1. In particular, it is the treatment of the Hebrew verb that I'm focused upon, and most specifically, the imperfect tense. The perfect tense is easy, but the imperfect is really quite hard to render fully into English (or Greek, or any other time-stream-based language) precisely because the point of reference is different. I'd live to see how you handled it.
I can't answer your original question without your first having an understanding of the Biblical account of the Tower of Babel. Perhaps another may be able to.
I promise to go step by step as I do Remember me. But, here is a pretty good example of a finished thought: www.christianpatriot.com/07-04-2014.htm
But, here is a pretty good example of a finished thought: www.christianpatriot.com/07-04-2014.htm Thank you. And thank you for the link. It's the particularities of the Imperfect Verb in Hebrew that are really of tremendous interest to me.
I'll leave it to you to dictate to the Jews what ancient Hebrew is or is not.
The "Jews", by the fact of being Jewish, do not have any innate knowledge of their ancient language. Nobody speaks it, and they have to learn it academically just like anybody else. You're probably Irish, or German. So, do you speak Irish Gaelic, or German? And if so, do you read Ogham, or can you read and speak old Plattsdeutsch? Not unless you've studied it. Ancient Hebrew had vowels. Middle and Modern Hebrew use vowel points. There are no vowel points in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Rather, the Scriptural texts are spelled differently in them, because consonants are used as vowels. There are very distinct pronunciation differences between Sephardic Hebrew and Ashkenazi Hebrew accents today, and we have recordings to hear the difference. There is no way to record ancient sound. I recall the same lesson from Latin class. The word "magna", as in Magna Cum Laude - back in Latin class I was told it is "Magg-na", though it is always pronounced and sung as "man-ya" in liturgical music. And how do ITALIANS pronounce the "gn"? As n-y. And when ITALIANS learn Latin, how do THEY pronounce "Magna"? They pronounce it as "man-ya". So do the French. But in American schools, we teach (or taught) that the "PROPER" ancient pronunciation is "Guh-N", like magma, but with an "n". There's no ancient tape recording to tell us that, and no ancient grammar that spells it out for us. It's just an academic assertion. At least scholars of ancient Greek admit that ancient Greek was not pronounced the way that scholastic ancient Greek is pronounced. They pronounce it that way to emphasize the spelling. With Hebrew, there was no language spoken for 1000 years. It was dead and gone. The revival of modern Hebrew was a PURELY academic exercise. Modern Hebrew is like Esperanto: it was the product of the university. In the case of Hebrew, it was certain ardent Zionists who took the ancient Hebrew and revived it. But they did not retain the ancient Hebrew verb forms. Why? Because they were modern Europeans, mostly living in Germany and France and England, and they could no more fathom the use of a language that didn't reference time than we can. So, MODERN Hebrew is an Indo-European language in terms of its verb structure, and much more closely related to German than to ancient Hebrew in this crucial aspect. It uses ancient Hebrew letters and words - pronounced like 19th Century Germans. Now, of course, as the Zionists took steam, there were Jews from the Ottoman Empire and North Africa, with their OWN pronunciations, and because these pronuciations came from the sandy areas, they were adopted as more "authentic". Truth: nobody knows how the ancient language was pronounced. There are clues from surviving languages (such as "man-ya" in Italian, for Latin), and various Arabic words. It's based on that that the scholars tells us that once upon a time "Vav" was "W". It doesn't really matter, but it's certainly not ME who is just making things up from wholecloth. But no, being Jewish does not inherently mean one understands ancient Hebrew better, or pronounces it correctly.
Great summary. Thanks.
"Let the inspired Scripture, then, be our umpire, and the vote of truth will surely be given to those whose dogmas are found to agree with the Divine words." Gregory of Nyssa
You are fixated on pronunciation for a word the Jews were always forbidden to speak. Or were all the copies of ancient Hebrew documents lost as well?
JewsAndJoes: The Ben Asher manuscripts (Aleppo Codex and the Leningrad Codex) are considered the earliest complete manuscripts of the Tanakh (10th Century CE). They render the Name as YeH-Vah, removing the "o" (cholam) vowel in order to remind the reader not to say The-Name (the 10th Century Masoretes accepted the rabbinic ban on pronunciation). The scribe of the Leningrad Codex (the LenB19a manuscript) deliberately or mistakenly forgot to remove the cholam 50 out of 6828 times. According to Nehemia Gordon (a Karaite Hakham), there were no other vowels accidentally inserted for the Vov in the Divine Name in this manuscript**. I don't mean to sound contentious here, but it is intriguing how Yahweh-ists belittle the "YeHo-" prefix which was traditionally supported by ancient Jewish scribes... and yet whole-heartedly claim El-ordained inspiration on those very same texts transmitted by the same Jewish scribes. Note: A photographic (lithographic) edition of the original manuscript has been published here: The Leningrad Codex; A Facsimile Edition Are you sure you're not just batting for the Septuagint team here?
No I am not.
No they used the word adamic. Meaning the language that Adam spoke.
Yes, I am sure. The LXX is a wonderful document. But to delve into Genesis, you need the pictographs. Also, the LXX doesn't do the Hebrew imperfect verb any justice. It simply replaces it with the verb tense that fits the Jewish theology of 150 BC. That's good enough for everything else, but it fails utterly when dealing with Genesis 1.
Which we can't possibly know unless it's revealed to us. It is true that some of the names in Genesis before the Flood are not Hebrew names. They're names composed of Hebrew components that can be reasoned out into meanings, but it's a speculative exercise. It would appear from the naming conventions that whatever they were speaking back then may have been a very, very Paleo-Hebrew, but it's not the Hebrew of Moses or of Caiaphas, or of today.
You place a lot of confidence in that chapter being a key to unlock mysteries. Yet we know it has to have one of the most dubious pedigrees of O.T. scripture. Not that I would expect you to agree.
Did someone say Paleo-Hebrew? Below you will see some examples of the Divine Name in Early (c.1500 BCE) and Middle (c.900 BCE) Paleo-Hebrew. The Divine Name in Middle Paleo-Hebrew: Another example of Middle Paleo-Hebrew:
When I get back to Maine, I will try to help, but please bear in mind, I am not real healthy and may not be able to.
Comments (99 - 105) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestAmos 8:11-14:
#59. To: SOSO, BobCeleste, TooConservative, _V_, redleghunter, SOSO, Orthodoxa, A Pole, Vicomte13, redleghunter, GarySpFc (#58)
But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. 6 The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”
#60. To: GarySpFC, BobCeleste, TooConservative, _V_, redleghunter, Orthodoxa, A Pole, Vicomte13, redleghunter, GarySpFc (#52)
Which language He spoke at any given time would have depended on the circumstance — Hebrew for religious purposes, Aramaic for common everyday conversation, and Greek when talking with other Greek-speakers.
#61. To: Vicomte13, Pericles, GarySpFc, Orthodoxa, redleghunter, liberator, TooConservative (#48)
The Hebrew imperfect is really hard to render into any Indo-European language without using multiple iterations, because it covers more than any single Indo-European verb tense.
#62. To: TooConservative (#53)
(Edited)
Hebrew has no 'w' sound.
#63. To: BobCeleste (#54)
Yes, Genesis, part of Exodus, part of Amos, as well as parts of Malachi.
#64. To: SOSO (#61)
{Sigh}
#65. To: SOSO, GarySpFC, BobCeleste, TooConservative, _V_, redleghunter, Orthodoxa, A Pole, Vicomte13, redleghunter (#60)
Which language He spoke at any given time would have depended on the circumstance — Hebrew for religious purposes, Aramaic for common everyday conversation, and Greek when talking with other Greek-speakers. This would somewhat problematical for the Universal Redeemer to do. Who was in the audience when He gave the Sermon on the Mount? Only Hebrews? Did those around that bear witness to Him speak all the languages that Christ may have used? What about the writtings about Him in and around His time on earth? Only Greek?
#66. To: Vicomte13 (#64)
"Because you know it's all about that bass, 'bout that bass, no treble!" - Meghan Traynor
#67. To: _V_ (#0)
#68. To: Pericles, GarySpFC, BobCeleste, TooConservative, _V_, redleghunter, Orthodoxa, A Pole, Vicomte13 (#65)
Why did Jesus do it like that? I don't know. It is His creation and we are all living in it.
#69. To: Palmdale, _V_, All (#67)
#70. To: SOSO (#69)
According to Common Cause none of them.
#71. To: Pericles (#44)
Actually, I wish the Christian debate about Bibles was on how the West should switch back to the Septuigent over the Masoratic.
#72. To: Palmdale (#70)
According to Common Cause none of them.
#73. To: A K A Stone (#5)
There was something on wikipedia that suggested that the "adamic" or something like that language was Hebrew.
#74. To: SOSO (#72)
#75. To: goldilucky (#73)
#76. To: Pericles (#57)
Is it all the bible or just the end times/Anti-christ stuff?
#77. To: SOSO (#58)
How does Babel work into this?
#78. To: BobCeleste (#77)
They all stayed in one place so God confused their languages casing them to go their separate ways.
#79. To: SOSO (#78)
Genesis Chapter Eight
Genesis Chapter Nine
Genesis Chapter Ten
Genesis Chapter Eleven
#80. To: SOSO (#66)
Lost me on this one.
#81. To: Vicomte13 (#63)
#82. To: BobCeleste (#79)
#83. To: BobCeleste (#81)
Now, since I am in NM, not Maine, I have a very limited number of study guides available, none of my Hebrew and but many of the Greek, so I need to stay with the NT. I hope, I can answer your questions as I go.
#84. To: SOSO (#82)
#85. To: Vicomte13 (#83)
#86. To: BobCeleste (#85)
I promise to go step by step as I do Remember me.
#87. To: Vicomte13 (#62)
Today it doesn't. Originally, who knows?
#88. To: TooConservative (#87)
I'll leave it to you to dictate to the Jews what ancient Hebrew is or is not.
#89. To: TooConservative (#45)
#90. To: Vicomte13 (#88)
Truth: nobody knows how the ancient language was pronounced.
#91. To: Vicomte13 (#88)
#92. To: TooConservative (#90)
You are fixated on pronunciation for a word the Jews were always forbidden to speak. Or were all the copies of ancient Hebrew documents lost as well?
#93. To: goldilucky (#73)
I think you mean "Aramic". Aramic was the language spoken.
#94. To: TooConservative (#91)
Are you sure you're not just batting for the Septuagint team here?
#95. To: A K A Stone (#93)
No they used the word adamic. Meaning the language that Adam spoke.
#96. To: Vicomte13 (#94)
That's good enough for everything else, but it fails utterly when dealing with Genesis 1.
#97. To: Vicomte13, A K A Stone (#95)
I liked the old ones where the 'H' looks like a "Don't Shoot" protester.
The-Name in Paleo-Hebrew
The Divine Name in Early Paleo-Hebrew: 
#98. To: Vicomte13 (#86)
It's the particularities of the Imperfect Verb in Hebrew that are really of tremendous interest to me.
.
.
.
[Home] [Headlines] [Latest Articles] [Latest Comments] [Post] [Mail] [Sign-in] [Setup] [Help] [Register]