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Humor
See other Humor Articles

Title: Be a man, try running Liberty Post
Source: LP
URL Source: [None]
Published: Jan 12, 2015
Author: Sneakypete and TooConservative
Post Date: 2015-01-12 16:37:59 by tpaine
Keywords: None
Views: 118841
Comments: 263

>> TooConservative-- Before you just shut it down, have you done any tally of results? Just eyeballing it, it looks like tpaine is probably above 60%.

>> Sneakypete---- Seems to ME that if TPaine is serious he would quit being a wuss and stand up like a man and say he will accept a 51 percent vote tally by regular posters as a victory and step up to the plate.

----It isn't me that would have to be a man and take all the bullshit... It would be the moderator. And my choice for mod would have been TooConservative, or Sneakypete, or even better, both of you.

----Tell you what, if you two take over mod/tech functions, I'd be willing to put up the money for the first year as the 'owner', and take responsibly for any legal problems we might encounter.

>> After all,he has never pretended to be anything other than a Libertarian with a "Big L",and since when have Bil L Libertarians ever demanded a 75 percent vote for anything?

-----I've never belonged to the big 'L' party. I consider myself a constitutional libertarian, who votes (mostly) republican.

>> In MY mind,if he doesn't man up and and accept ownership if he gets the majority of the votes,he was never serious about it to start with.

---I'll call your bluff. Put up (joining me, as above) or shut up about man-ing up.

>> I personally hope this isn't the case because I think all political discussion boards need Big L Libertarian owners/moderators. Anyone else and they just turn into partisan party arms preaching the party line with no dissent allowed. Without dissent there is no discussion.

---Here's your chance to put your man-ing up with your mouth. How bout it?

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


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Comments (1-188) not displayed.
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#189. To: nolu chan (#187)

As sysadmin had the password, he had the capacity or ability to perform certain acts. As Goldi had died and he knew of her death, sysadmin had no authority to perform certain acts performed.

Unless consider this. He was hired by Goldi for a term of the one year to work on her site. That he had already been paid. And he would have been a crook if he didn't fulfill his obligation. If I agree to install a new tile floor in someones warehouse at the restaurant they own. And the owner dies in the process. And i have the keys to the building and they paid me in advance. I would still be obligated to install that tile.

Maybe not the best analogy. I'll just throw this out there.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-01-15   16:06:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#190. To: tpaine (#180)

I was not trying to 'buy' LP. My initial offer was to pay the bills and assume any legal responsibilities.

Whose legal responsibilities? You will see the problem while trying to answer that question. Upon Goldi's death, responsibilities went to the state of Florida. LP was not a legal entity. The responsibilities were Goldi's, personally.

The whole process was flawed. It may have been well intended, but good intent does not overrule state law. The problem is that no will was found and state law gets in the way.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-01-15   16:08:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#191. To: A K A Stone (#189)

Unless consider this. He was hired by Goldi for a term of the one year to work on her site. That he had already been paid.

Any grant of authority that he may have had as an agent or employee was extinguished by Goldi's death and his knowledge of that fact.

http://info.legalzoom.com/power-attorney-end-upon-death-20235.html

Death of the Principal

Section 111 of the Uniform Power of Attorney Act provides that the power of attorney terminates when the principal dies. This rule is followed in all states. For example, Florida laws state that a power of attorney expires upon the principal’s death. In this situation, the agent no longer has authority to act on behalf of the principal, and the principal’s successors take over the management of his affairs.

Validation of Agent's Actions

In some situations the agent may not know of the principal’s death and may continue to act under the power of attorney, for example, by paying bills or signing documents. If the agent does not know that the principal has died, the law generally allows him to continue acting as agent until he is notified of the death. For example, Chapter 1337.091 of the Ohio Code states that if an agent carries out his duties without knowing that the principal has died, his actions remain valid, provided that he acts in good faith.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0709/0709.html

709.2109 Termination or suspension of power of attorney or agent’s authority.— 
(1) A power of attorney terminates when:
(a) The principal dies;
(b) The principal becomes incapacitated, if the power of attorney is not durable;
(c) The principal is adjudicated totally or partially incapacitated by a court, unless the court determines that certain authority granted by the power of attorney is to be exercisable by the agent;
(d) The principal revokes the power of attorney;
(e) The power of attorney provides that it terminates;
(f) The purpose of the power of attorney is accomplished; or
(g) The agent’s authority terminates and the power of attorney does not provide for another agent to act under the power of attorney.
(2) An agent’s authority is exercisable until the authority terminates. An agent’s authority terminates when:
(a) The agent dies, becomes incapacitated, resigns, or is removed by a court;
(b) An action is filed for the dissolution or annulment of the agent’s marriage to the principal or for their legal separation, unless the power of attorney otherwise provides; or
(c) The power of attorney terminates.
(3) If any person initiates judicial proceedings to determine the principal’s incapacity or for the appointment of a guardian advocate, the authority granted under the power of attorney is suspended until the petition is dismissed or withdrawn or the court enters an order authorizing the agent to exercise one or more powers granted under the power of attorney.
(a) If an emergency arises after initiation of proceedings to determine incapacity and before adjudication regarding the principal’s capacity, the agent may petition the court in which the proceeding is pending for authorization to exercise a power granted under the power of attorney. The petition must set forth the nature of the emergency, the property or matter involved, and the power to be exercised by the agent.
(b) Notwithstanding the provisions of this section, unless otherwise ordered by the court, a proceeding to determine incapacity does not affect the authority of the agent to make health care decisions for the principal, including, but not limited to, those provided in chapter 765. If the principal has executed a health care advance directive designating a health care surrogate, the terms of the directive control if the directive and the power of attorney are in conflict unless the power of attorney is later executed and expressly states otherwise.
(4) Termination or suspension of an agent’s authority or of a power of attorney is not effective as to an agent who, without knowledge of the termination or suspension, acts in good faith under the power of attorney. An act so performed, unless otherwise invalid or unenforceable, binds the principal and the principal’s successors in interest.
History.—s. 11, ch. 2011-210.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-01-15   16:13:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#192. To: Palmdale (#186)

Including the cat?

The State authorities acted to dispose of the cat.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-01-15   16:14:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#193. To: nolu chan (#190)

good intent does not overrule state law

What if the state of Florida ignores your points? Will you sue them? Do you have standing for this?

A Pole  posted on  2015-01-15   16:15:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#194. To: nolu chan (#192)

The State authorities acted to dispose of the cat.

Gotta link to the probate order?

Palmdale  posted on  2015-01-15   16:18:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#195. To: A Pole (#193)

What if the state of Florida ignores your points?

Palmdale  posted on  2015-01-15   16:20:26 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#196. To: Palmdale (#195)

Just leave the cat alone, please :)

A Pole  posted on  2015-01-15   16:22:06 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#197. To: SOSO (#179)

"The Major Case Unit is not usually called in on no harm, no foul cases and still have them five weeks after the body is found. Why was the Major Case Unit called in?"

Excellent question. Based on it I am sooooooooo happy that LP is shut down and that my personal info will be redacted.

I am sooooooooo happy that you are sooooooooo happy in your belief that things on the internet can, with certainty, be made to disappear.

Who knows in what Goldi may have been entangled, with who and why tpaine and pericles were so interested in getting their hands on LP. How's that for setting off another conspiracy thread:)

The Shadow knows. And the first LP server was located at 12 Carroll St., Westminster, MD. And the goings on at that address, including the police raid and the permanent injunctions, and the prison records are matters of public record.

As you know, sysadmin posted:

http://libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=350039&Disp=All&#C461

I've been with LP since Goldi and Neil came up with the idea, helped build the first server, and have worked with it ever since behind the scenes.

sysadmin posted on 2015-01-12 14:35:29 ET

Back in 2002, Neil/Pinguinite solicited donations:

http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=167&Disp=All

How can I contribute? We do not yet have a means of accepting funds electronically (did I mention we were new?) though we will eventually. In the mean time contributions can be sent to:

Liberty Post
12 Carroll Street, Suite 112
Westminster, MD 21157

Checks and money orders should be made payable to "Liberty Post".

Maybe the will was hidden in a misplaced bottle of Holy Qettorett.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-01-15   16:25:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#198. To: nolu chan (#191)

You sure are making a mountain out of a molehill. Unless you plan on contacting the authorities in Florida and wasting their time with this foolishness you are beating a dead horse for no other purpose than to hear the thud. To what purpose?

Fibr Dog  posted on  2015-01-15   16:27:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#199. To: nolu chan, tpaine (#190)

Chan is correct. Sysadmin and Neil had absolutely no right to offer anything to anyone under the Liberty Post name. They were essentially offering what was not theirs to offer to you and or Pericles. With no will and not being corporate officers, their actions were their own and most likely illegal.

They ended up doing the only thing that was legal and let the domain name expire and buy it back up again under sysadmin's name. Any of the old Liberty Post would come under control of whomever Goldi willed it to or the State of Florida. The URL was perfectly legal to buy as the subscription lapsed, but the content would have to be totally removed and replaced with something else.

I am 110% certain that one or both asked a lawyer, after they had started their dog and pony show, as to what was legal or not and were told what to do to avoid any legal trouble.

A sham election conducted by a couple of computer geeks without the common sense God gave a donkey. They are lucky... so far. A government stooge with a little time on their hands could make their lives miserable for a while as they dig into the mess.

Nexus6  posted on  2015-01-15   16:27:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#200. To: A Pole (#193)

Will you sue them? Do you have standing for this?

No and no. I do not believe the Florida state authorities need any assistance on the law of Florida.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-01-15   16:28:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#201. To: Fibr Dog (#198)

You sure are making a mountain out of a molehill. Unless you plan on contacting the authorities in Florida and wasting their time with this foolishness you are beating a dead horse for no other purpose than to hear the thud.

I recall CP saying something like that about libel. That made quite a thud.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-01-15   16:30:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#202. To: Palmdale (#194)

Gotta link to the probate order?

I've got it hidden in a bottle of Holy Qettorett obtained from Indiana Jones.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-01-15   16:32:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#203. To: Nexus6, tpaine (#199)

They ended up doing the only thing that was legal and let the domain name expire and buy it back up again under sysadmin's name.

They did a little something something extra with that move to Panama.

The rights to an expired domain name have nothing to do with the archives of some prior user of the domain name. It gets authority to use the name only.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-01-15   16:39:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#204. To: nolu chan (#202)

I've got it hidden in a bottle of Holy Qettorett obtained from Indiana Jones.

I suspect that the cat was worth more than the domain name.

Palmdale  posted on  2015-01-15   16:39:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#205. To: nolu chan, tpaine (#203)

The rights to an expired domain name have nothing to do with the archives of some prior user of the domain name. It gets authority to use the name only.

Exactly. Any and all content, without being willed to them or part of a corporate agreement, isn't theirs.

They own the URL only. Nothing more. They attempted an illegal transfer of information that wasn't theirs to transfer.

Nexus6  posted on  2015-01-15   16:44:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#206. To: Willie Green (#176)

If tpaine doesn't agree with Neil & sysadmin's decision, he can take them to probate court... --- No wait, tpaine doesn't have legal standing to do that, does he?

Correct again Mr Obvious. I have neither standing nor the faintest desire to sue any one for anything. -- Get a grip on your imagination.

Oh well, Neil & sysadmin still acted responsibly to protect LP from being vandalized until Goldi's estate is settled. And tpaine should thank his lucky stars that he didn't illegally acquire control of Goldi's property.

You are so insane about this, that you're funny. I made it quite clear from the start of this farce that I did NOT want control of LP, I was willing to pay the bills as long as a membership chosen moderator tried to control the inmates.

tpaine  posted on  2015-01-15   16:56:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#207. To: tpaine (#206)

I made it quite clear from the start of this farce that I did NOT want control of LP, I was willing to pay the bills as long as a membership chosen moderator tried to control the inmates.

You would have had a hell of a time explaining that to a government worker bee looking for $$$ from Goldi's estate. You are damn lucky those two dopes figured it out before they got themselves and you or Pericles in some trouble.

Nexus6  posted on  2015-01-15   17:00:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#208. To: SOSO, implies he is the sysadmin-LP? (#181)

I was not trying to 'buy' LP.

Yo, Bro, I believe that I made it abundantly clear that LP was not for sale.

You did? Are you the sysadmin?

BTW, do you have any sense of humor?

I've been laughing at all the antics here since I got up this morning. Congrats on being one of the head clowns posting... 'bro'.

tpaine  posted on  2015-01-15   17:05:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#209. To: Nexus6 (#199)

They ended up doing the only thing that was legal and let the domain name expire and buy it back up again under sysadmin's name.

Except that is not what happened.

There is a grace period after the name expires (at least 2 weeks) but as you can see it never expired. A whois privacy guard is in place but you can see the date of renewal. Who knows what names lurk behind the privacy shield? "sysadmin" does.

http://who.is

Expires On 	January 18, 2016
Registered On 	January 18, 2011
Updated On 	January 06, 2015

Operation 40  posted on  2015-01-15   17:07:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#210. To: Operation 40 (#209)

There is a grace period after the name expires (at least 2 weeks) but as you can see it never expired. A whois privacy guard is in place but you can see the date of renewal. Who knows what names lurk behind the privacy shield? "sysadmin" does.

You can bet the State of Florida will find out if they think they can get some money out of it. Someone may be in some trouble over this.

Nexus6  posted on  2015-01-15   17:14:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#211. To: Nexus6, tpaine (#205)

They attempted an illegal transfer of information that wasn't theirs to transfer.

Did they attempt an illegal transfer of information or did they commit a conversion?

Conversion is "[a]n unauthorized assumption and exercise of the right of ownership over goods or personal chattels belonging to another, to the alteration of their condition or the exclusion of the owner's rights. Any unauthorized act which deprives an owner of his property permanently or for an indefinite time. Unauthorized and wrongful exercise of dominion and control over another's personal property." Black's Law Dict., 6th Ed.

Constructive conversion is "[a]n implied or virtual conversion, which takes place where a person does such acts in reference to the goods of another as amount in law to the appropriation of the property to himself." Black's Law Dict., 6th Ed.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-01-15   17:14:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#212. To: nolu chan, tpaine (#211)

Conversion

There is a strong case for this as well. While ownership of LP may have been in dispute in the period between Goldi's actual passing and when the State of Florida would have claim to her property, there can be no dispute that sysadmin and Neil were never owners or had the right to manipulate any of her property and had no right to attempt to sell, barter, or transfer it to anyone else.

Nexus6  posted on  2015-01-15   17:21:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#213. To: Nexus6 (#199)

A sham election conducted by a couple of computer geeks without the common sense God gave a donkey. They are lucky... so far. A government stooge with a little time on their hands could make their lives miserable for a while as they dig into the mess.

Thank you for your excellent, and humerous synopsis. This tempest in a teapot has been great entertainment for quite a while now. I'll be sad to see it fade away.

tpaine  posted on  2015-01-15   17:22:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#214. To: All (#0)

Hmmm...

This is interesting, guess who owns "Libertypost.com"?

Try it! who.is

Operation 40  posted on  2015-01-15   17:33:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#215. To: Operation 40, Nexus6 (#209)

That was for libertypost.net

libertypost.org expired.

The website Liberty Post used both.

Expires On 		January 14, 2015
Registered On 	        January 14, 2002
Updated On 		November 17, 2014

Curiously, Goldi's body was found on November 13, 2014 and the registration was updated on November 17, 2014. Whodunnit?

Registrant Contact Information:
    Name: WhoisGuard Protected
    Organization: WhoisGuard, Inc.
    City: Panama
    State: Panama
    Zip: 00000
    Country: PA
    Phone: +507.8365503
    Email: Email Masking Image@whoisguard.com

Administrative Contact Information:
    Name: WhoisGuard Protected
    Organization: WhoisGuard, Inc.
    City: Panama
    State: Panama
    Zip: 00000
    Country: PA
    Phone: +507.8365503
    Email: Email Masking Image@whoisguard.com

Technical Contact Information:
    Name: WhoisGuard Protected
    Organization: WhoisGuard, Inc.
    City: Panama
    State: Panama
    Zip: 00000
    Country: PA
    Phone: +507.8365503
    Email: Email Masking Image@whoisguard.com

Information Updated: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 00:11:42 UTC

nolu chan  posted on  2015-01-15   17:38:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#216. To: nolu chan, Operation 40, Nexus6 (#215)

http://who.is/dns/libertypost.net

ns1.linode.com 69.93.127.10 Houston, TX, US

ns2.linode.com 65.19.178.10 Nashville, TN, US

ns3.linode.com 75.127.96.10 Atlanta, GA, US

ns4.linode.com 207.192.70.10 Cedar Knolls, NJ, US

ns5.linode.com 109.74.194.10

http://who.is/dns/libertypost.net

***************************************************

http://who.is/domain-history/libertypost.net

Registrar Info January 15, 2015

Name ENOM, INC.

Whois Server whois.enom.com

Referral URL http://www.enom.com

Status clientTransferProhibited

Important Dates

Expires On January 18, 2016

Registered On January 18, 2011

Updated On January 06, 2015

Murron  posted on  2015-01-15   18:08:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#217. To: Murron, Operation40, Nexus6 (#216)

I just captured the info posted in my #215 just before I formatted my post and posted it. When I went back just now, there were a few changes.

Under important dates my #215 read:

Updated On November 17, 2014

Now that is updated to:

Updated On January 06, 2015

- - - - -

The bottom of my post at #215 read:

Information Updated: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 00:11:42 UTC

Now that is updated to:

Information Updated: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 22:54:55 UTC

= = = = =

Registrar Info
Name 		eNom, Inc. (R39-LROR)
Status 		clientTransferProhibited

Important Dates
Expires On 		January 14, 2016
Registered On 	        January 14, 2002
Updated On 		January 06, 2015

Raw Registrar Data

Registrant Contact Information:
    Name: WhoisGuard Protected
    Organization: WhoisGuard, Inc.
    City: Panama
    State: Panama
    Zip: 00000
    Country: PA
    Phone: +507.8365503
    Email: Email Masking Image@whoisguard.com

Administrative Contact Information:
    Name: WhoisGuard Protected
    Organization: WhoisGuard, Inc.
    City: Panama
    State: Panama
    Zip: 00000
    Country: PA
    Phone: +507.8365503
    Email: Email Masking Image@whoisguard.com

Technical Contact Information:
    Name: WhoisGuard Protected
    Organization: WhoisGuard, Inc.
    City: Panama
    State: Panama
    Zip: 00000
    Country: PA
    Phone: +507.8365503
    Email: Email Masking Image@whoisguard.com

Information Updated: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 22:54:55 UTC

nolu chan  posted on  2015-01-15   18:26:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#218. To: Murron, Operation40, Nexus6 (#217)

http://who.is/website-information/libertypost.org

Captured at [1/15/2015 5:43:57 PM]

Contact Information

Owner Name 	Goldi-Lox

Email 	        goldi@libertypost.org

nolu chan  posted on  2015-01-15   18:46:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#219. To: nolu chan (#217)

Looks to me like the sysadmin-LP is playing games with dates. How is that possible? - Is it possible hack that registry site?

tpaine  posted on  2015-01-15   18:56:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#220. To: tpaine (#219)

Looks to me like the sysadmin-LP is playing games with dates. How is that possible? - Is it possible hack that registry site?

It appears the update date/time to the second at the bottom of the page is when whois updated their page. The page does not contain data originating after that time.

It appears the update date (mmddyyy) listed under "important dates" indicated when the domain updated their information.

The first post of mine showed a page update of December 29, 2014 and could not list a most recent domain update of January 6, 2015.

The second post of mine that did show the most recent domain update of January 6, 2015 shows a page update of January 15, 2015, after January 6.

If this is a correct interpretation, the first post shows the most recent domain update of November 17, four days after Goldi's body was discovered, and already indicating a change to Panama.

Maybe I misunderstand the data, but that, and the background of the site origin, make me curious about what happened when. Who updated on November 17 and what did they update?

nolu chan  posted on  2015-01-15   19:38:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#221. To: tpaine, nolu chan (#219)

like the sysadmin-LP is playing games

Why are you trying to attack "sysadmin-LP"?

A Pole  posted on  2015-01-15   20:32:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#222. To: A Pole (#221)

Um, one possibility is that he's not that bright.

Biff Tannen  posted on  2015-01-15   21:01:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#223. To: A Pole, tpaine (#221)

Why are you trying to attack "sysadmin-LP"?

Just fighting for truth, justice, and the American way.

Remember, sysadmin posted

I've been with LP since Goldi and Neil came up with the idea, helped build the first server, and have worked with it ever since behind the scenes.

That first server was provided by and in the office of John B. Kotmair at 12 Carroll St., Westminster, MD, the address of SAPF and Liberty Post.

Goldi-Lox and Pinguinite were followers of John B. Kotmair and SAPF. It appears sysadmin was another member of the fold.

John B. Kotmair was Federal Bureau of Prisons inmate # 18066-037.

Son Edward L. Kotmair was Federal Bureau of Prisons inmate # 33337-037. That was his second stretch. Earlier he was state Offender Number 0229959 doing time at Hartnett Correctional Institution.

http://www.bop.gov/inmateloc/

I can see how the people from SAPF can vouch for each other's integrity.

Gee, what was their business?

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
Plaintiff - Appellee,
v.
JOHN B. KOTMAIR, JR., D/B/A SAVE-A-PATRIOT FELLOWSHIP AND NATIONAL WORKERS RIGHTS COMMITTEE; SAVE-A-PATRIOT FELLOWSHIP, AN UNINCORPORATED ASSOCIATION,
Defendants - Appellants.

UNPUBLISHED

UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS
FOR THE FOURTH CIRCUIT

Appeal from the United States District Court for
the District of Maryland, at Baltimore.
William M. Nickerson, Senior District Judge.
(1:05-cv-01297-WMN)

Submitted: July 24, 2007
Decided: July 26, 2007

Before WILKINSON, TRAXLER, and DUNCAN, Circuit Judges.

Affirmed by unpublished per curiam opinion.

John B. Kotmair, Jr., Appellant Pro Se; George E. Harp, Shreveport, Louisiana, for Appellant SAVE-A-PATRIOT FELLOWSHIP, an unincorporated association.

Richard Farber, Carol Ann Barthel, UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, Washington, D.C., for Appellee.

Unpublished opinions are not binding precedent in this circuit.

PER CURIAM:

John B. Kotmair, Jr., and Save-A-Patriot Fellowship appeal from the district court's orders granting summary judgment in favor of the United States and issuing a permanent injunction against them based on their activities in promoting a tax evasion scheme, and denying their motions for a new trial and for modification of the injunction. We have reviewed the record and find no reversible error. Accordingly, we affirm for the reasons stated by the district court. United States v. Kotmair, No. 1:05-cv-01297-WMN (D. Md. Nov. 29, 2006; Feb. 7, 2007). We deny Save-A-Patriot's motion to strike portions of the brief filed by the United States, and we dispense with oral argument because the facts and legal contentions are adequately presented in the materials before the court and argument would not aid the decisional process.

AFFIRMED

Have another,

http://www.leagle.com/decision/19961657962FSupp695_11553

SAVE-A-PATRIOT FELLOWSHIP v. U.S. Civil Action No. MJG-95-935.

962 F.Supp. 695 (1996)

SAVE-A-PATRIOT FELLOWSHIP, Plaintiff,
v.
UNITED STATES of America, Defendant.

United States District Court, D. Maryland.
December 18, 1996.

Beverly A. Moses, Trial Attorney, Tax Division, U.S. Dept. of Justice,
Washington, DC, for Plaintiff.

George E. Harp, Shreveport, LA, for Defendant.

MEMORANDUM OF DECISION

GARBIS, District Judge.

[...]

The SAP Fellowship chose not to maintain any bank accounts or even maintain records of its finances.

[...]

The record establishes that Kotmair was entitled to, felt free to, and did, take funds from the Fellowship and use them for his personal sustenance. Kotmair espouses a doctrine that would have funds that he takes to spend for personal use remain the property of the SAP Fellowship. Indeed, in the world according to Kotmair, if he uses Foundation funds for his food, the Foundation ownership extends to the food even as it proceeds through his digestive system. For example:

THE COURT: [W]e are trying to get an understanding of when something belongs to you and when it doesn't. When it belongs to [the SAP Fellowship], so I just want you to try and help me understand that. If you go to the grocery store and you buy Wheaties [with fellowship funds], when is it yours, after you eat it or. Kotmair: That is a hard question to answer. THE COURT: That is why we ask it. Kotmair: If the energy from it goes to the Fellowship, and it does, I would say it is to the benefit of the fellowship.

The Court declines to follow the "logic" of Kotmair's position or to dwell upon the point in the digestive process at which Kotmair would agree that the I.R.S. could effect collection. Rather, the Court must conclude that once Kotmair takes Fellowship funds for personal use, those funds can no longer be found to be Fellowship property immune from levy for Kotmair's tax liabilities.

The Court finds from the evidence that the SAP Fellowship obtained, and had ownership of, the cash and money orders it received for memberships and the sales of goods, and, possibly services. If the Fellowship had established that Kotmair's possession of particular assets was solely as Fiduciary for the SAP Fellowship the ownership could remain in the Fellowship. However, at such point as Kotmair took the assets and did not place

[962 F.Supp. 701]

them in a location23 that was exclusively used for the maintenance of Fellowship assets, the ability of the SAP Fellowship to establish ownership in this case was lost. In the context of this case, once the cash and money orders were taken from the Office and placed in something other than a Fellowship depository, the funds were available for the immediate personal use of Kotmair, mingled with his own assets, and no longer had the character of Fellowship assets sufficient to avoid levy.

In this case, the cash and money orders that had been removed from the Office prior to the raid were found in the Residence in various locations, none of which have been established to be exclusive association depositories. However, the Court finds that the $384 of cash, the $210 of money orders and $40 of Susan B. Anthony Dollars found at the Office were, when found, property of the SAP Fellowship which had not yet been mingled with Kotmair's personal assets. Accordingly, the Court concludes that the SAP Fellowship has carried its burden of proof and proven ownership with regard to these assets found in the Office, but not as to the cash and money orders found in the Residence.

[...]

Who is that sysadmin mystery man who helped with that first server in the SAPF office in 2002 and has "worked with it ever since behind the scenes."

nolu chan  posted on  2015-01-16   0:10:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#224. To: nolu chan (#223)

Why are you trying to attack "sysadmin-LP"?

Just fighting for truth, justice, and the American way.

Seems like a vindictive personality attack. Not a political debate. Is your objective to punish or intimidate "sysadmin-LP"?

A Pole  posted on  2015-01-16   2:54:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#225. To: nolu chan (#185)

Wait for what?

Probate of the estate. The legal process.

And who says SysAdmin isn't waiting? He said that may happen, and if it does, then things will go that course. That is, by definition, waiting. I don't understand why you feel like some crime or civil offence has been committed. If Florida wants the domain name and web site as part of Sally's estate, they can come and get it. No problem.

When I asked "wait for what" I really meant "do what while we wait?" I listed a bunch of options, and asked what you would do in sysadmin's place, but you failed to answer.

You have raised a big stink about something no being done right, or something being done wrong, but as far as I can tell, you have failed to state what that is. You simply rehash the same claim about LP belonging to Florida.

Pinguinite  posted on  2015-01-16   4:43:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#226. To: Fibr Dog, nolu chan (#198)

You sure are making a mountain out of a molehill. Unless you plan on contacting the authorities in Florida and wasting their time with this foolishness you are beating a dead horse for no other purpose than to hear the thud. To what purpose?

Indeed. I fully and heartily recommend that Nolu do his civic duty and contact the state of Florida and inform them of this grave injustice.

Do it. I'm totally serious.

Pinguinite  posted on  2015-01-16   4:48:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#227. To: Nexus6 (#199) (Edited)

Chan is correct. Sysadmin and Neil had absolutely no right to offer anything to anyone under the Liberty Post name. They were essentially offering what was not theirs to offer to you and or Pericles. With no will and not being corporate officers, their actions were their own and most likely illegal.

Offering anything is hardly illegal, in of itself. But the fact that it was not turned over to anyone makes the matter moot.

I am 110% certain that one or both asked a lawyer, after they had started their dog and pony show, as to what was legal or not and were told what to do to avoid any legal trouble.

Oh, absolutely. Consulting a big legal firm was definitely worth the time and expense to avoid a raid from DHS over a domain name generates zero income.

They are lucky... so far. A government stooge with a little time on their hands could make their lives miserable for a while as they dig into the mess.

Hey it could still happen........ He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.

Pinguinite  posted on  2015-01-16   4:57:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#228. To: Pinguinite, Fibr Dog, nolu chan (#226)

I fully and heartily recommend that Nolu do his civic duty and contact the state of Florida and inform them of this grave injustice.

He, he. And what the state of Florida will do? It will proudly declare LP server and domain the heritage site of the Sunshine State. Or will it sell it for twenty bucks to the wicked sys-admin?

A Pole  posted on  2015-01-16   5:03:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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