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Title: Be a man, try running Liberty Post
Source:
LP
URL Source: [None]
Published: Jan 12, 2015
Author: Sneakypete and TooConservative
Post Date: 2015-01-12 16:37:59 by tpaine
Keywords: None
Views: 118628
Comments: 263
>> TooConservative-- Before you just shut it down, have you done any tally of results? Just eyeballing it, it looks like tpaine is probably above 60%. >> Sneakypete---- Seems to ME that if TPaine is serious he would quit being a wuss and stand up like a man and say he will accept a 51 percent vote tally by regular posters as a victory and step up to the plate. ----It isn't me that would have to be a man and take all the bullshit... It would be the moderator. And my choice for mod would have been TooConservative, or Sneakypete, or even better, both of you. ----Tell you what, if you two take over mod/tech functions, I'd be willing to put up the money for the first year as the 'owner', and take responsibly for any legal problems we might encounter. >> After all,he has never pretended to be anything other than a Libertarian with a "Big L",and since when have Bil L Libertarians ever demanded a 75 percent vote for anything? -----I've never belonged to the big 'L' party. I consider myself a constitutional libertarian, who votes (mostly) republican. >> In MY mind,if he doesn't man up and and accept ownership if he gets the majority of the votes,he was never serious about it to start with. ---I'll call your bluff. Put up (joining me, as above) or shut up about man-ing up. >> I personally hope this isn't the case because I think all political discussion boards need Big L Libertarian owners/moderators. Anyone else and they just turn into partisan party arms preaching the party line with no dissent allowed. Without dissent there is no discussion. ---Here's your chance to put your man-ing up with your mouth. How bout it?
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#192. To: Palmdale (#186)
The State authorities acted to dispose of the cat.
What if the state of Florida ignores your points? Will you sue them? Do you have standing for this?
Gotta link to the probate order?
Just leave the cat alone, please :)
Excellent question. Based on it I am sooooooooo happy that LP is shut down and that my personal info will be redacted. I am sooooooooo happy that you are sooooooooo happy in your belief that things on the internet can, with certainty, be made to disappear. The Shadow knows. And the first LP server was located at 12 Carroll St., Westminster, MD. And the goings on at that address, including the police raid and the permanent injunctions, and the prison records are matters of public record. As you know, sysadmin posted: http://libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=350039&Disp=All&#C461 sysadmin posted on 2015-01-12 14:35:29 ET Back in 2002, Neil/Pinguinite solicited donations: http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=167&Disp=All Liberty Post Checks and money orders should be made payable to "Liberty Post". Maybe the will was hidden in a misplaced bottle of Holy Qettorett.
You sure are making a mountain out of a molehill. Unless you plan on contacting the authorities in Florida and wasting their time with this foolishness you are beating a dead horse for no other purpose than to hear the thud. To what purpose?
Chan is correct. Sysadmin and Neil had absolutely no right to offer anything to anyone under the Liberty Post name. They were essentially offering what was not theirs to offer to you and or Pericles. With no will and not being corporate officers, their actions were their own and most likely illegal. They ended up doing the only thing that was legal and let the domain name expire and buy it back up again under sysadmin's name. Any of the old Liberty Post would come under control of whomever Goldi willed it to or the State of Florida. The URL was perfectly legal to buy as the subscription lapsed, but the content would have to be totally removed and replaced with something else. I am 110% certain that one or both asked a lawyer, after they had started their dog and pony show, as to what was legal or not and were told what to do to avoid any legal trouble. A sham election conducted by a couple of computer geeks without the common sense God gave a donkey. They are lucky... so far. A government stooge with a little time on their hands could make their lives miserable for a while as they dig into the mess.
No and no. I do not believe the Florida state authorities need any assistance on the law of Florida.
I recall CP saying something like that about libel. That made quite a thud.
I've got it hidden in a bottle of Holy Qettorett obtained from Indiana Jones.
They did a little something something extra with that move to Panama. The rights to an expired domain name have nothing to do with the archives of some prior user of the domain name. It gets authority to use the name only.
I suspect that the cat was worth more than the domain name.
Exactly. Any and all content, without being willed to them or part of a corporate agreement, isn't theirs. They own the URL only. Nothing more. They attempted an illegal transfer of information that wasn't theirs to transfer.
Correct again Mr Obvious. I have neither standing nor the faintest desire to sue any one for anything. -- Get a grip on your imagination. You are so insane about this, that you're funny. I made it quite clear from the start of this farce that I did NOT want control of LP, I was willing to pay the bills as long as a membership chosen moderator tried to control the inmates.
You would have had a hell of a time explaining that to a government worker bee looking for $$$ from Goldi's estate. You are damn lucky those two dopes figured it out before they got themselves and you or Pericles in some trouble.
I was not trying to 'buy' LP. You did? Are you the sysadmin? I've been laughing at all the antics here since I got up this morning. Congrats on being one of the head clowns posting... 'bro'.
Except that is not what happened. There is a grace period after the name expires (at least 2 weeks) but as you can see it never expired. A whois privacy guard is in place but you can see the date of renewal. Who knows what names lurk behind the privacy shield? "sysadmin" does.
You can bet the State of Florida will find out if they think they can get some money out of it. Someone may be in some trouble over this.
Did they attempt an illegal transfer of information or did they commit a conversion? Conversion is "[a]n unauthorized assumption and exercise of the right of ownership over goods or personal chattels belonging to another, to the alteration of their condition or the exclusion of the owner's rights. Any unauthorized act which deprives an owner of his property permanently or for an indefinite time. Unauthorized and wrongful exercise of dominion and control over another's personal property." Black's Law Dict., 6th Ed. Constructive conversion is "[a]n implied or virtual conversion, which takes place where a person does such acts in reference to the goods of another as amount in law to the appropriation of the property to himself." Black's Law Dict., 6th Ed.
There is a strong case for this as well. While ownership of LP may have been in dispute in the period between Goldi's actual passing and when the State of Florida would have claim to her property, there can be no dispute that sysadmin and Neil were never owners or had the right to manipulate any of her property and had no right to attempt to sell, barter, or transfer it to anyone else.
Thank you for your excellent, and humerous synopsis. This tempest in a teapot has been great entertainment for quite a while now. I'll be sad to see it fade away.
Hmmm... This is interesting, guess who owns "Libertypost.com"? Try it! who.is
That was for libertypost.net libertypost.org expired. The website Liberty Post used both. Curiously, Goldi's body was found on November 13, 2014 and the registration was updated on November 17, 2014. Whodunnit?
http://who.is/dns/libertypost.net ns1.linode.com 69.93.127.10 Houston, TX, US ns2.linode.com 65.19.178.10 Nashville, TN, US ns3.linode.com 75.127.96.10 Atlanta, GA, US ns4.linode.com 207.192.70.10 Cedar Knolls, NJ, US ns5.linode.com 109.74.194.10 http://who.is/dns/libertypost.net *************************************************** http://who.is/domain-history/libertypost.net Registrar Info January 15, 2015 Name ENOM, INC. Whois Server whois.enom.com Referral URL http://www.enom.com Status clientTransferProhibited Important Dates Expires On January 18, 2016 Registered On January 18, 2011 Updated On January 06, 2015
I just captured the info posted in my #215 just before I formatted my post and posted it. When I went back just now, there were a few changes. Under important dates my #215 read: Updated On November 17, 2014 Now that is updated to: Updated On January 06, 2015 - - - - - The bottom of my post at #215 read: Information Updated: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 00:11:42 UTC Now that is updated to: Information Updated: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 22:54:55 UTC = = = = =
http://who.is/website-information/libertypost.org Captured at [1/15/2015 5:43:57 PM]
Looks to me like the sysadmin-LP is playing games with dates. How is that possible? - Is it possible hack that registry site?
It appears the update date/time to the second at the bottom of the page is when whois updated their page. The page does not contain data originating after that time. It appears the update date (mmddyyy) listed under "important dates" indicated when the domain updated their information. The first post of mine showed a page update of December 29, 2014 and could not list a most recent domain update of January 6, 2015. The second post of mine that did show the most recent domain update of January 6, 2015 shows a page update of January 15, 2015, after January 6. If this is a correct interpretation, the first post shows the most recent domain update of November 17, four days after Goldi's body was discovered, and already indicating a change to Panama. Maybe I misunderstand the data, but that, and the background of the site origin, make me curious about what happened when. Who updated on November 17 and what did they update?
Why are you trying to attack "sysadmin-LP"?
Um, one possibility is that he's not that bright.
Just fighting for truth, justice, and the American way. Remember, sysadmin posted That first server was provided by and in the office of John B. Kotmair at 12 Carroll St., Westminster, MD, the address of SAPF and Liberty Post. Goldi-Lox and Pinguinite were followers of John B. Kotmair and SAPF. It appears sysadmin was another member of the fold. John B. Kotmair was Federal Bureau of Prisons inmate # 18066-037. Son Edward L. Kotmair was Federal Bureau of Prisons inmate # 33337-037. That was his second stretch. Earlier he was state Offender Number 0229959 doing time at Hartnett Correctional Institution. I can see how the people from SAPF can vouch for each other's integrity. Gee, what was their business? UNPUBLISHED UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS Appeal from the United States District Court for Submitted: July 24, 2007 Before WILKINSON, TRAXLER, and DUNCAN, Circuit Judges. Affirmed by unpublished per curiam opinion. John B. Kotmair, Jr., Appellant Pro Se; George E. Harp, Shreveport, Louisiana, for Appellant SAVE-A-PATRIOT FELLOWSHIP, an unincorporated association. Richard Farber, Carol Ann Barthel, UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, Washington, D.C., for Appellee. Unpublished opinions are not binding precedent in this circuit. PER CURIAM: John B. Kotmair, Jr., and Save-A-Patriot Fellowship appeal from the district court's orders granting summary judgment in favor of the United States and issuing a permanent injunction against them based on their activities in promoting a tax evasion scheme, and denying their motions for a new trial and for modification of the injunction. We have reviewed the record and find no reversible error. Accordingly, we affirm for the reasons stated by the district court. United States v. Kotmair, No. 1:05-cv-01297-WMN (D. Md. Nov. 29, 2006; Feb. 7, 2007). We deny Save-A-Patriot's motion to strike portions of the brief filed by the United States, and we dispense with oral argument because the facts and legal contentions are adequately presented in the materials before the court and argument would not aid the decisional process. AFFIRMED Have another, http://www.leagle.com/decision/19961657962FSupp695_11553 962 F.Supp. 695 (1996) SAVE-A-PATRIOT FELLOWSHIP, Plaintiff, United States District Court, D. Maryland. Beverly A. Moses, Trial Attorney, Tax Division, U.S. Dept. of Justice, George E. Harp, Shreveport, LA, for Defendant. MEMORANDUM OF DECISION GARBIS, District Judge. [...] The SAP Fellowship chose not to maintain any bank accounts or even maintain records of its finances. [...] The record establishes that Kotmair was entitled to, felt free to, and did, take funds from the Fellowship and use them for his personal sustenance. Kotmair espouses a doctrine that would have funds that he takes to spend for personal use remain the property of the SAP Fellowship. Indeed, in the world according to Kotmair, if he uses Foundation funds for his food, the Foundation ownership extends to the food even as it proceeds through his digestive system. For example: THE COURT: [W]e are trying to get an understanding of when something belongs to you and when it doesn't. When it belongs to [the SAP Fellowship], so I just want you to try and help me understand that. If you go to the grocery store and you buy Wheaties [with fellowship funds], when is it yours, after you eat it or. Kotmair: That is a hard question to answer. THE COURT: That is why we ask it. Kotmair: If the energy from it goes to the Fellowship, and it does, I would say it is to the benefit of the fellowship. The Court declines to follow the "logic" of Kotmair's position or to dwell upon the point in the digestive process at which Kotmair would agree that the I.R.S. could effect collection. Rather, the Court must conclude that once Kotmair takes Fellowship funds for personal use, those funds can no longer be found to be Fellowship property immune from levy for Kotmair's tax liabilities. The Court finds from the evidence that the SAP Fellowship obtained, and had ownership of, the cash and money orders it received for memberships and the sales of goods, and, possibly services. If the Fellowship had established that Kotmair's possession of particular assets was solely as Fiduciary for the SAP Fellowship the ownership could remain in the Fellowship. However, at such point as Kotmair took the assets and did not place [962 F.Supp. 701] them in a location23 that was exclusively used for the maintenance of Fellowship assets, the ability of the SAP Fellowship to establish ownership in this case was lost. In the context of this case, once the cash and money orders were taken from the Office and placed in something other than a Fellowship depository, the funds were available for the immediate personal use of Kotmair, mingled with his own assets, and no longer had the character of Fellowship assets sufficient to avoid levy. In this case, the cash and money orders that had been removed from the Office prior to the raid were found in the Residence in various locations, none of which have been established to be exclusive association depositories. However, the Court finds that the $384 of cash, the $210 of money orders and $40 of Susan B. Anthony Dollars found at the Office were, when found, property of the SAP Fellowship which had not yet been mingled with Kotmair's personal assets. Accordingly, the Court concludes that the SAP Fellowship has carried its burden of proof and proven ownership with regard to these assets found in the Office, but not as to the cash and money orders found in the Residence. [...] Who is that sysadmin mystery man who helped with that first server in the SAPF office in 2002 and has "worked with it ever since behind the scenes."
Just fighting for truth, justice, and the American way. Seems like a vindictive personality attack. Not a political debate. Is your objective to punish or intimidate "sysadmin-LP"?
And who says SysAdmin isn't waiting? He said that may happen, and if it does, then things will go that course. That is, by definition, waiting. I don't understand why you feel like some crime or civil offence has been committed. If Florida wants the domain name and web site as part of Sally's estate, they can come and get it. No problem. When I asked "wait for what" I really meant "do what while we wait?" I listed a bunch of options, and asked what you would do in sysadmin's place, but you failed to answer. You have raised a big stink about something no being done right, or something being done wrong, but as far as I can tell, you have failed to state what that is. You simply rehash the same claim about LP belonging to Florida.
Indeed. I fully and heartily recommend that Nolu do his civic duty and contact the state of Florida and inform them of this grave injustice. Do it. I'm totally serious.
Offering anything is hardly illegal, in of itself. But the fact that it was not turned over to anyone makes the matter moot. Oh, absolutely. Consulting a big legal firm was definitely worth the time and expense to avoid a raid from DHS over a domain name generates zero income. Hey it could still happen........ He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
He, he. And what the state of Florida will do? It will proudly declare LP server and domain the heritage site of the Sunshine State. Or will it sell it for twenty bucks to the wicked sys-admin?
Being away from LP as long as I have has given me the distinct benefit of not having to read such nonsense from people that just come up with crap to fulfill a need to hate or despise. You have an agenda, and you jump on any opportunity to ridicule people you don't know. The decision not to hand off LP was made out of consideration only with regard to what was morally appropriate, as discussed on LP. Even if LP had been handed off to someone, if Florida came knocking and wanted the domain, then they still get it. You are treating this like it is destruction of property. Insane.
< Yawn ..... zzzzzzz >
May I suggest getting the good Dr. Watson involved? Perhaps Moriarty is involved, staked out in Panama?
Curiously, Goldi's body was found on November 13, 2014 and the registration was updated on November 17, 2014. Whodunnit? Very interesting. There must have been some kind of reason that the name was updated on 11/17, since it wasn't set to expire until mid Jan. Perhaps there is a registrar or other source that allows a review of all "updated" dates. What was "updated" on 11/17, and by who, and why?
Comments (233 - 263) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestIncluding the cat?
#193. To: nolu chan (#190)
good intent does not overrule state law
#194. To: nolu chan (#192)
The State authorities acted to dispose of the cat.
#195. To: A Pole (#193)
What if the state of Florida ignores your points?
#196. To: Palmdale (#195)
#197. To: SOSO (#179)
"The Major Case Unit is not usually called in on no harm, no foul cases and still have them five weeks after the body is found. Why was the Major Case Unit called in?"
Who knows in what Goldi may have been entangled, with who and why tpaine and pericles were so interested in getting their hands on LP. How's that for setting off another conspiracy thread:)
I've been with LP since Goldi and Neil came up with the idea, helped build the first server, and have worked with it ever since behind the scenes.
How can I contribute? We do not yet have a means of accepting funds electronically (did I mention we were new?) though we will eventually. In the mean time contributions can be sent to:
12 Carroll Street, Suite 112
Westminster, MD 21157
#198. To: nolu chan (#191)
#199. To: nolu chan, tpaine (#190)
#200. To: A Pole (#193)
Will you sue them? Do you have standing for this?
#201. To: Fibr Dog (#198)
You sure are making a mountain out of a molehill. Unless you plan on contacting the authorities in Florida and wasting their time with this foolishness you are beating a dead horse for no other purpose than to hear the thud.
#202. To: Palmdale (#194)
Gotta link to the probate order?
#203. To: Nexus6, tpaine (#199)
They ended up doing the only thing that was legal and let the domain name expire and buy it back up again under sysadmin's name.
#204. To: nolu chan (#202)
I've got it hidden in a bottle of Holy Qettorett obtained from Indiana Jones.
#205. To: nolu chan, tpaine (#203)
The rights to an expired domain name have nothing to do with the archives of some prior user of the domain name. It gets authority to use the name only.
#206. To: Willie Green (#176)
If tpaine doesn't agree with Neil & sysadmin's decision, he can take them to probate court... --- No wait, tpaine doesn't have legal standing to do that, does he?
Oh well, Neil & sysadmin still acted responsibly to protect LP from being vandalized until Goldi's estate is settled. And tpaine should thank his lucky stars that he didn't illegally acquire control of Goldi's property.
#207. To: tpaine (#206)
I made it quite clear from the start of this farce that I did NOT want control of LP, I was willing to pay the bills as long as a membership chosen moderator tried to control the inmates.
#208. To: SOSO, implies he is the sysadmin-LP? (#181)
Yo, Bro, I believe that I made it abundantly clear that LP was not for sale.
BTW, do you have any sense of humor?
#209. To: Nexus6 (#199)
They ended up doing the only thing that was legal and let the domain name expire and buy it back up again under sysadmin's name.
Expires On January 18, 2016
Registered On January 18, 2011
Updated On January 06, 2015
#210. To: Operation 40 (#209)
There is a grace period after the name expires (at least 2 weeks) but as you can see it never expired. A whois privacy guard is in place but you can see the date of renewal. Who knows what names lurk behind the privacy shield? "sysadmin" does.
#211. To: Nexus6, tpaine (#205)
They attempted an illegal transfer of information that wasn't theirs to transfer.
#212. To: nolu chan, tpaine (#211)
Conversion
#213. To: Nexus6 (#199)
A sham election conducted by a couple of computer geeks without the common sense God gave a donkey. They are lucky... so far. A government stooge with a little time on their hands could make their lives miserable for a while as they dig into the mess.
#214. To: All (#0)
#215. To: Operation 40, Nexus6 (#209)
Expires On January 14, 2015
Registered On January 14, 2002
Updated On November 17, 2014
Registrant Contact Information:
Name: WhoisGuard Protected
Organization: WhoisGuard, Inc.
City: Panama
State: Panama
Zip: 00000
Country: PA
Phone: +507.8365503
Email: Email Masking Image@whoisguard.com
Administrative Contact Information:
Name: WhoisGuard Protected
Organization: WhoisGuard, Inc.
City: Panama
State: Panama
Zip: 00000
Country: PA
Phone: +507.8365503
Email: Email Masking Image@whoisguard.com
Technical Contact Information:
Name: WhoisGuard Protected
Organization: WhoisGuard, Inc.
City: Panama
State: Panama
Zip: 00000
Country: PA
Phone: +507.8365503
Email: Email Masking Image@whoisguard.com
Information Updated: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 00:11:42 UTC
#216. To: nolu chan, Operation 40, Nexus6 (#215)
#217. To: Murron, Operation40, Nexus6 (#216)
Registrar Info
Name eNom, Inc. (R39-LROR)
Status clientTransferProhibited
Important Dates
Expires On January 14, 2016
Registered On January 14, 2002
Updated On January 06, 2015
Raw Registrar Data
Registrant Contact Information:
Name: WhoisGuard Protected
Organization: WhoisGuard, Inc.
City: Panama
State: Panama
Zip: 00000
Country: PA
Phone: +507.8365503
Email: Email Masking Image@whoisguard.com
Administrative Contact Information:
Name: WhoisGuard Protected
Organization: WhoisGuard, Inc.
City: Panama
State: Panama
Zip: 00000
Country: PA
Phone: +507.8365503
Email: Email Masking Image@whoisguard.com
Technical Contact Information:
Name: WhoisGuard Protected
Organization: WhoisGuard, Inc.
City: Panama
State: Panama
Zip: 00000
Country: PA
Phone: +507.8365503
Email: Email Masking Image@whoisguard.com
Information Updated: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 22:54:55 UTC
#218. To: Murron, Operation40, Nexus6 (#217)
Contact Information
Owner Name Goldi-Lox
Email goldi@libertypost.org
#219. To: nolu chan (#217)
#220. To: tpaine (#219)
Looks to me like the sysadmin-LP is playing games with dates. How is that possible? - Is it possible hack that registry site?
#221. To: tpaine, nolu chan (#219)
like the sysadmin-LP is playing games
#222. To: A Pole (#221)
#223. To: A Pole, tpaine (#221)
Why are you trying to attack "sysadmin-LP"?
I've been with LP since Goldi and Neil came up with the idea, helped build the first server, and have worked with it ever since behind the scenes.
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
Plaintiff - Appellee,
v.
JOHN B. KOTMAIR, JR., D/B/A SAVE-A-PATRIOT FELLOWSHIP AND NATIONAL WORKERS RIGHTS COMMITTEE; SAVE-A-PATRIOT FELLOWSHIP, AN UNINCORPORATED ASSOCIATION,
Defendants - Appellants.
FOR THE FOURTH CIRCUIT
the District of Maryland, at Baltimore.
William M. Nickerson, Senior District Judge.
(1:05-cv-01297-WMN)
Decided: July 26, 2007 SAVE-A-PATRIOT FELLOWSHIP v. U.S. Civil Action No. MJG-95-935.
v.
UNITED STATES of America, Defendant.
December 18, 1996.
Washington, DC, for Plaintiff.
#224. To: nolu chan (#223)
Why are you trying to attack "sysadmin-LP"?
#225. To: nolu chan (#185)
Wait for what?
Probate of the estate. The legal process.
#226. To: Fibr Dog, nolu chan (#198)
You sure are making a mountain out of a molehill. Unless you plan on contacting the authorities in Florida and wasting their time with this foolishness you are beating a dead horse for no other purpose than to hear the thud. To what purpose?
#227. To: Nexus6 (#199)
(Edited)
Chan is correct. Sysadmin and Neil had absolutely no right to offer anything to anyone under the Liberty Post name. They were essentially offering what was not theirs to offer to you and or Pericles. With no will and not being corporate officers, their actions were their own and most likely illegal.
I am 110% certain that one or both asked a lawyer, after they had started their dog and pony show, as to what was legal or not and were told what to do to avoid any legal trouble.
They are lucky... so far. A government stooge with a little time on their hands could make their lives miserable for a while as they dig into the mess.
#228. To: Pinguinite, Fibr Dog, nolu chan (#226)
I fully and heartily recommend that Nolu do his civic duty and contact the state of Florida and inform them of this grave injustice.
#229. To: Nexus6 (#207)
You would have had a hell of a time explaining that to a government worker bee looking for $$$ from Goldi's estate. You are damn lucky those two dopes figured it out before they got themselves and you or Pericles in some trouble.
#230. To: Nexus6 (#210)
You can bet the State of Florida will find out if they think they can get some money out of it. Someone may be in some trouble over this.
#231. To: nolu chan (#220)
Maybe I misunderstand the data, but that, and the background of the site origin, make me curious about what happened when. Who updated on November 17 and what did they update?
#232. To: nolu chan (#215)
Expires On January 14, 2015
Registered On January 14, 2002
Updated On November 17, 2014
libertypost.org expired
As your post #218 indicates, it was renewed/updated on 1/06/15. Was .org also "updated" on 11/17? And if so, who and why?
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