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Title: Document Recently Found Has Eyewitness Account of Jesus Performing Miracle (Hoax)
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URL Source: http://guardianlv.com/2014/10/docum ... t-of-jesus-performing-miracle/
Published: Oct 17, 2014
Author: Kimberly Ruble
Post Date: 2014-10-17 22:53:49 by A K A Stone
Keywords: None
Views: 46703
Comments: 96
In Rome, a document recently found has an eyewitness account of Jesus performing a miracle. An Italian professional was examining the paper written in the first century by the Roman historian Marcus Paterculus. It has only been recently found inside the annals of the Vatican and on it there was written what appears to be the very first eyewitness account ever documented of one of the miracles performed by Jesus. The author told of a scene that he supposedly observed, in which a prophet who he named Isous de Nazarenus, revived a baby who had been stillborn and gave him back to his mother.
Historian Ignazio Perrucci was employed by authorities of the Vatican in 2012 to go through and analyze over 6,000 antique documents that had been found in massive archive crypts. Perrucci had already been excited when he detected that the writer of the text was the celebrated Roman historian Paterculus, but he was totally shocked after he read the content of the document.
Professor Perrucci discovered the text in the collections of the Vatican, while he was looking through a packet of personal letters and other minor documents that dated back to the Roman period. The writing, when looked at as a complete narrative tells of the writer’s departing journey from Parthia to Rome, which happened in 31 AD. It was recorded on four pieces of parchment. He speaks of various events happening during his journey, like an intense sandstorm in Mesopotamia and when he visits a temple in Melitta which is now called Mdina in modern day Malta.
Yet the piece of text that really got the historian’s attention was when he read about an event occurring in the town of Sebaste. That would be close to the city of Nablus in the modern day, which is in the West Bank. The writer talked about the coming of a great leader into the city with his assembly of disciples. He also had many followers and this meant that a lot of the lower class people from nearby villages were gathering around the group. Paterculus stated that the great man’s name was Isous de Nazarenus, which was a Greco Latin translation of Jesus’ Hebrew name, Yeshua haNotzri.
The document stated that when he entered the town, it was written that Jesus had gone to the home of a woman by the name of Elisheba. She had just had a stillborn baby. Jesus reportedly picked up the dead infant and said a prayer in Aramaic. The writer stated that it was “immensus”, which meant that it was unintelligible. Next, right in front of the crown, to their wonder and astonishment, the baby returned to life crying and fidgeting like a vigorous newborn.
Marcus Paterculus, was a Roman officer of Campanian heritage, and it appears that he saw Jesus as some sort of great man who could perform miracles. He did not appear to associate him with the Christian idea of him being the Messiah.
There have been numerous tests and examinations done in the past few weeks to try and determine the manuscripts authenticity. The make-up of the parchment and the ink used to write on it, the literary panache and even the handwriting have been cautiously inspected and are believed to legitimate. The dating investigation also showed that the parchment on which the text was penned, did date from the 1st century, precisely from between 20-40 AD.
This text written by an author, who has always been known for his dependability, has brought a new viewpoint on the life of Jesus of Nazareth. An official translation of the manuscript is planned to be released and made available online in numerous different languages over the next couple of months. However, the effect of the discovery has already been felt in the scientific community. Numerous researchers believe this to be one of the greatest developments ever found toward the study of the life of Jesus, while many others think it is nothing but a fraud and have uttered doubts about the conclusions of all the tests and want many more done before they declare this to be any sign of that Jesus really lived. They do not trust the document.
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#16. To: pinguinite (#0)
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Well, satire or not, the theological model I subscribe to does not mean Jesus never lived and performed miracles. There may well have been a man named Jesus (or whatever the ancient version of his name was as it certainly wouldn't have been spelled in our present day alphabet), walking the earth, performing miracles and spreading a message of good will, and upsetting the establishment in the process. Supernatural events (aka miracles) can and do occur. The issue I have with Christianity is only that A) Reincarnation does occur, in almost certain contradiction of Hebrews 9:27. B) The bible, therefore, cannot be the "Word of God". At least in the sense of perfect divine inspiration. The original message could have been divinely true but then corrupted as passed from that point into written form (i.e. present day bible). C) In my personal view, because we are souls born in the spirit world that can and do exist independently of our human bodies, we are not *primarily* human beings. Our human identity is only a secondary identity. Because of that, the core of Christian theology, which holds that Jesus took human form to indentify with us, and died as one of us, for the salvation of our non-human souls, breaks down. That because some souls never incarnate, and others incarnate from time to time as non-humans, on alien worlds. IOW, our human identity is merely incidental. That being the case, a human sacrifice (Jesus dying on the cross for the salvation of us "humans") no longer makes sense. Again, that's my personal view. I'm sure there are others who do believe in reincarnation but also subscribe to that element of Christian theology. I understand the Gnostic Christians of the first few centuries AD did subscribe to reincarnation until Constantine declared it a heresy (for the purposes of political control of the masses). There is much is the gospels I do agree with. The golden rule for one, and that love is the greatest commandment (though not a commandment, per se). While the theological reasons for the death of Jesus I find erroneous, the message behind the story of his sacrifice is correct -- namely that we are all loved enormously, far more than we can humanly comprehend. Though in my view, the love is greater than that portrayed by Christian theology because I say we are never overtly judged or condemned to hell for all eternity. There will be judgement, but we will judge ourselves, and judge soundly, without the distraction of our human mind, and lovingly encouraged to grow and do better next time. Whether a soul can condemn itself to annihilation, I do not know, but free will is perfect in the spirit world. This theological model is, in my view, superior because we are loved more perfectly. God never gives up on us, as opposed to giving up on an unrepentant sinner when he dies, young or old. All of us are here because we chose to be here, knowing in advance (at the subconsciously/spiritual level) what our lives would be like, so life is in fact, fair. None of us suffers pain without a reason. Life has a real, practical purpose, and that is for us to grow and advance spiritually. In short, there are far more sound answers with this model than with the Christian model. But back on the subject of Jesus performing miracles, it's very possible. Souls do have that capability. The stronger, more advanced the souls, the more powerful, though most of us walking the earth are pretty weak (or we wouldn't be here). Best...
Supernatural events (aka miracles) can and do occur. First, let me say that I appreciate your deep thought, intellectual honesty, and search for the truth. Yes, the historical record of multiple witnesses testify not only to the very existence of Jesus or Yeshua, but of the miracles he'd performed, his verbatim speeches and messages, his philosophy (if we want to call it that), even his genealogy. Not the mention all the scriptural prophecies concerning his eventual emergence, the theme of man's sin and its requisite redemption and payment for the penalty for sin throughout the ages. The issue I have with Christianity is only that A) Reincarnation does occur, in almost certain contradiction of Hebrews 9:27. "Reincarnation" is defined as returning "in the flesh." After this mortal shell expires, those who are accept the gift of redemptive grace do not "return" anywhere -- not the least which is to the current physical realm of "earth." We shall also be reborn in a celestial body (please refer to 1 Corinthians 15.) There will also be a "new Heaven and Earth." (see Revelation 21:1) B) The bible, therefore, cannot be the "Word of God". At least in the sense of perfect divine inspiration. The original message could have been divinely true but then corrupted as passed from that point into written form (i.e. present day bible). Isn't this the presumptive narrative often cited to invalidate the entire Bible, its underpinnings of wisdom for living, and message of love and redemption? IF we can concede that an Almighty God and Creator of the Universe is capable of all things -- including divinely inspiring man to "transcribe" His message, laws, and word -- why must we presume He would allow His word(s) to be corrupted in the written form? (yes, I know -- because man is fundamentally corrupt. I get that part...) God's Word is incorruptible. This is what we must remember and maintain that faith. C) In my personal view, because we are souls born in the spirit world that can and do exist independently of our human bodies, we are not *primarily* human beings. Our human identity is only a secondary identity. Because of that, the core of Christian theology, which holds that Jesus took human form to indentify with us, and died as one of us, for the salvation of our non-human souls, breaks down. That because some souls never incarnate, and others incarnate from time to time as non-humans, on alien worlds. IOW, our human identity is merely incidental. That being the case, a human sacrifice (Jesus dying on the cross for the salvation of us "humans") no longer makes sense. Again, that's my personal view. I'm sure there are others who do believe in reincarnation but also subscribe to that element of Christian theology. I understand the Gnostic Christians of the first few centuries AD did subscribe to reincarnation until Constantine declared it a heresy (for the purposes of political control of the masses). Plenty here to expound upon... It could be said that we are spirits and souls born in the flesh -- human form (in the image of God.) We ARE indeed "human beings" while living on this earth -- again, [possessing spirits and souls that transcend the flesh. Some souls never "reincarnate" or move on to existing in a celestial form because as promised, many will themselves have chosen either one of TWO destinations for their eternal soul; To be reborn in their celestial, incorruptible form eternally in The Kingdom of God forever as promised, OR in the alternative -- Judgment for rejecting the Savior's redemptive gift of grace, and debt unpaid that re-routes the destination the soul (apart from God.) That is considered the Second Death. OR "Hell": “...furnace of fire…weeping and gnashing of teeth” ~ Matthew 13:50 In any context of the term "Reincarnation," it is totally incompatible with the "Christian" theology which punctuates the destination of the eternal soul once and for all. Either one must embrace Scripture and the Word of God as a matter of faith, OR reject ALL of it. But certainly, all the answers are there. IF we truly seek the truth and open our hearts for the Holy Spirit to imbue that faith.
Thank you very much. I think I can accurately and honestly say that's been one of my elements throughout life. But if we are willing to concede that God is capable of all things as you say, why does that NOT include the ability to save someone who has died with sin? The Christian answer is that God, capable of all things, is nonetheless bound by his own nature of not tolerating sin in his presence. Or perhaps stated more accurately, sin cannot tolerate God in its presence. In essence then it is not God whom is almighty, but God's nature, because God is bound by his nature... i.e. unable to act upon his own love for all of us because he cannot help himself. Is that not a contradiction? In the theological model derived from Newton's observations, this contradiction does not exist. As for the bible, yes one can have faith that God would simply not allow it to become corrupted. But what would this faith be based upon? The bible itself? That's circular logic. My take: We are not humans which possess souls. That is always how it is stated, and it implies that we are primarily human. Does a glove possess a hand, or a shoe possess a foot? No. we always say you need gloves for your hands, and shoes for your feet. I.e. it's the hands and feet which possess things, not our clothing which possesses us. And it is a soul that possesses a human body. We are souls first, with human bodies as "clothing" of sorts for the soul. We do not "have" souls. We ARE souls, and we HAVE bodies. An important distinction, in my book. I can agree we are created in God's image. I've no problem with that description, but our human bodies are NOT that image. We as souls are that image. Does that not make more sense? I agree with you that reincarnation is not compatible with the core of Christian theology. That is why I did not arrive at my present conclusions lightly. Still, I am not rejecting all aspects of the bible, as I hope I made clear in prior posts. The love Christianity teaches IS real. It's just that it's even better than what Christianity teaches because God never gives up on us even when we (our bodies) die. Also, we are indeed called to love and develop spiritually toward perfection, as the bible states. But with reincarnation, that opportunity becomes endless, as a single lifetime is hardly enough time to overcome a single vice, not to mention many. Is this not a more beautiful setup? Endless love with endless patience? If God is capable of all things as we agree, why would he not have thought of this model and used it? Well, I believe he did! The only thing true about your description: "Either one must embrace Scripture and the Word of God as a matter of faith, OR reject ALL of it." is the notion of whether or not it is, in its present form, the infallible "Word of God". But just because it may not be that does not mean it doesn't possess much truth. It certainly does --I recognize that-- or it would not have survived through the ages. But given my present view of things, I cannot consider it a divinely infallible document. Thank you for your response.
#54. To: Pinguinite (#34)
But through faith the redemptive Blood of Jesus Christ, hasn't that "ability to save someone who has died with sin" already been realized? The Christian answer is that God, capable of all things, is nonetheless bound by his own nature of not tolerating sin in his presence. Or perhaps stated more accurately, sin cannot tolerate God in its presence. In essence then it is not God whom is almighty, but God's nature, because God is bound by his nature... i.e. unable to act upon his own love for all of us because he cannot help himself. Is that not a contradiction? In the theological model derived from Newton's observations, this contradiction does not exist. You've presented some ethereal concepts... I honestly don't see any contradictions. In fact I see clear-cut rules an open field of vision, and a goal line that is ours for the taking. God IS "bound" to His contract with us.... God loves us so much that He is willing to tolerate the sin (which is man's "nature" here on earth) -- just as long as that sin is repented here while in this mortal world. Those are the terms of his "nature" -- Forgiveness. But it is conditional, isn't it? Moreover, his terms apply ONLY as long as one has been washed in the Blood of Jesus Christ. In that case, the Sin is erased before entering His Kingdom...Now, true, sin is NOT tolerated in His presence, hence Judgment Day, and alternative destinations for those who reject His gift of Grace. Btw, how do we define "sin"? As "evil acts"? "Spiritual filth"? "Violations of the spirit"? Yes, God DOES indeed love us all. Including the "sinner" (a catagory for which we ALL fall inevitably into.) God's love is simply demonstrated in the grace of redemption for all who willfully accept His Free Gift of Grace for sinners in the next Life. As for the bible, yes one can have faith that God would simply not allow it to become corrupted. But what would this faith be based upon? The bible itself? That's circular logic. "Circular logic" -- isn't that exactly what reincarnation is about? An eternal circular return to a different "scene of the crime" -- until we "get it right"? An "incorruptible" Bible would be based on the Power of God to forge His Will upon man...and create a firewall around its truth, integrity, and word. Now I do understand that this is counter-intuitive considering we all know man is corrupt and evil abounds. Your answer, OUR answer, is Faith. Faith that the Almighty has no limitations when it comes to HIS Will, HIS Law, HIS Instructions (aka our 'Owner's Manual' to loving if you will :-) I can agree we are created in God's image. I've no problem with that description, but our human bodies are NOT that image. We as souls are that image. Does that not make more sense? I can concur with that assertion to a large degree. Souls and spirits within a celestial body. But consider: a shadow can be an "image"; A caricature; A one-dimensional cut-out. All are "images," but can't fully describe to what extent our "image" resembles God's. I agree with you that reincarnation is not compatible with the core of Christian theology. That is why I did not arrive at my present conclusions lightly. Still, I am not rejecting all aspects of the bible, as I hope I made clear in prior posts. The love Christianity teaches IS real. It's just that it's even better than what Christianity teaches because God never gives up on us even when we (our bodies) die. Also, we are indeed called to love and develop spiritually toward perfection, as the bible states.... You've got a good heart, seeking God is wisdom. I probably speak for most Christians here, who at one time most likely weighed all the "evidence" and logic for the Afterlife as well as the redemptive concept of Jesus Christ, Messiah who took on our sins. Some later rather than soon, but better late than never. That faith is a blessing my friend, but it must be fed and de-weeded. ... But with reincarnation, that opportunity becomes endless, as a single lifetime is hardly enough time to overcome a single vice, not to mention many. Is this not a more beautiful setup? Endless love with endless patience? If God is capable of all things as we agree, why would he not have thought of this model and used it? Well, I believe he did! Of course the Almighty is capable of all things -- including dictating our own Genesis, wisdom for living, and our "Get Out Of Hell" Card. In the reincarnation model, an eternity of lifetimes couldn't fully redeem man's nature -- which is to sin. But even that one single sin after a thousand lives of reincarnation and "Karmic justice" left on that "tab" would not make that person clean enough to step foot in Heaven. And THAT is the point and conditions of dwelling in His Kingdom, and blessed with indescribable rewards and treasure. Forever. Moreover, what happens though the eternal circle of reincarnation when the "tab" of sins keeps on piling up? I can't see the logic to that model. To me it seems like a sentence...hellish in indeed; An eternity of suffering and hopelessness. What kind of God would sentence His Children to that futility? IMHO, that is cruel and usual punishment IF it were God's way. Which bring me to ask again -- to what authority or source of its validity as a redemptive solution can we trace "Reincarnation" and its partner, "Karma"? Have those who believe a memory of past transgressions and "mistakes"? Do YOU remember you past transgressions so that you may correct them? Since there is no "cheat-sheet" to this model, how does one ever hope to correct the sins of the past? "Endless love with endless patience"? Yes, I do see it with God. But I see it in the context that despite our "nature" to be narcissistic, selfish, liars, hurtful, and abusive to ourselves and our fellow man, God has offered a simple Solution, but it DOES take faith. Why not accept instead the solution found in the Bible and God-in-the-Flesh -- a Messiah -- who picks up the entire tab IF we simply believe? It is backed by logic, history, eyewitnesses, testimony, fulfilled prophecies...and conclusive FINAL Destination based on man's Free Will. And yes, God own Word, shielded by an impenetrable firewall. The only thing true about your description: "Either one must embrace Scripture and the Word of God as a matter of faith, OR reject ALL of it." is the notion of whether or not it is, in its present form, the infallible "Word of God". But just because it may not be that does not mean it doesn't possess much truth. It certainly does --I recognize that-- or it would not have survived through the ages. But given my present view of things, I cannot consider it a divinely infallible document. Thank you for your response. I appreciate you remarks and thoughts as well... Look Ping -- as shared earlier, fully I understand the reticence in accepting an "infallible" Word of God, aka the Holy Bible. Man -- even many believers -- intuitively believes at SOME point in time, the Bible and its words and meaning were corrupted, over-exaggerated, or merely allegories. IF we can both admit that God the Almighty who created EVERYTHING from scratch, reason and purpose, how can we then rationalize that He wasn't capable of transcribing EXACTLY his Will and His "Onwer's Manual" into papyrus/paper/memory? To me it's illogical. When I was younger, how many of us actually believed the story of Adam and Eve was actually that -- just a "story," an allegory? Noah and the Ark? Jonah and the Whale? Moses and the Parting of the Red Sea? The miracles and Resurrection of Jesus Christ? I think we can both agree that this world, its laws of physics, the infinitely intricacies of design, and the cycles of life and death are miraculous. But it is all explained in the Good Book. And so is the dynamic of One God, evil in the real existence of Satan, deception that derails that one road (and challenge) to our personal Damascus, and the responsibility for the one-time consequences of our actions and faith in this life. Reincarnation and Karma? Concepts -- though rational in some senses -- hasn't enough answers. IF the "eyewitnesses" of hypnotized subjects who've seen Heaven" -- regardless of degree of morality, faith, or religion -- ALL pretty much describe the same exact beautiful experience, IS there a possibility that the entire trip is Satanic Deception? What common element is conveyed upon return? That essentially ALL who will leave this earth will enter Paradise -- regardless of ANY faith whatsoever. "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. Resist him, steadfast in the faith..." (1 Peter 5:8-9 NKJV)
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#20. To: A K A Stone (#16)
ping
#25. To: Pinguinite (#20)
Well, satire or not, the theological model I subscribe to does not mean Jesus never lived and performed miracles. There may well have been a man named Jesus (or whatever the ancient version of his name was as it certainly wouldn't have been spelled in our present day alphabet), walking the earth, performing miracles and spreading a message of good will, and upsetting the establishment in the process.
“....where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched”~ Mark 9:48
“...he will be tormented with fire and brimstone”~ Revelation 14:10
#34. To: Liberator (#25)
First, let me say that I appreciate your deep thought, intellectual honesty, and search for the truth.
Isn't this the presumptive narrative often cited to invalidate the entire Bible, its underpinnings of wisdom for living, and message of love and redemption? IF we can concede that an Almighty God and Creator of the Universe is capable of all things -- including divinely inspiring man to "transcribe" His message, laws, and word -- why must we presume He would allow His word(s) to be corrupted in the written form? (yes, I know -- because man is fundamentally corrupt. I get that part...) God's Word is incorruptible. This is what we must remember and maintain that faith.
It could be said that we are spirits and souls born in the flesh -- human form (in the image of God.) We ARE indeed "human beings" while living on this earth -- again, [possessing spirits and souls that transcend the flesh.
In any context of the term "Reincarnation," it is totally incompatible with the "Christian" theology which punctuates the destination of the eternal soul once and for all. Either one must embrace Scripture and the Word of God as a matter of faith, OR reject ALL of it. But certainly, all the answers are there. IF we truly seek the truth and open our hearts for the Holy Spirit to imbue that faith.
Replies to Comment # 34. If we are willing to concede that God is capable of all things as you say, why does that NOT include the ability to save someone who has died with sin?
End Trace Mode for Comment # 34.
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