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Religion
See other Religion Articles

Title: Fountain of Immortality
Source: YouTube
URL Source: http://youtu.be/hm2qSeiTCfI
Published: May 29, 2014
Author: Russian Orthodox Church Abroad
Post Date: 2014-10-17 09:59:33 by Orthodoxa
Keywords: Orthodox Christian, Divine Liturgy
Views: 6317
Comments: 16

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 3.

#1. To: All (#0)

Here is what I would consider an excellent overview of the main worship service in the Orthodox Christian Church, the Divine Liturgy.

Our Lord, at the Last Supper, said "Do this in remembrance of Me." As can be seen, in the Divine Liturgy we commemorate many of His acts toward our salvation, from his incarnation in Bethlehem to His second and glorious coming.

I know that for many of my Protestant brethren, this worship service may seem to be very strange and elaborate. But I would contend that the Divine Liturgy and other services of the Orthodox Church are in fact Biblical.

For just one example, most Protestants eschew the burning of incense. But the Prophet Malachi foretold in Malachi 1:11

"For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."

Incense was used in worship in the Old Testament, above the Prophet states that the Gentiles will also use it to worship God, and in Revelation we read that it is also used in heavenly worship. At no place in Scripture are we ever told to abandon using incense in worship, yet many Protestants have done so, IMHO simply just because the Roman Church used it and when they Protested against the Roman Church they also IMHO abandoned some completely Biblical practices merely because they reminded them of the Roman Church which they had left.

So what comprises proper worship of God?

Orthodoxa  posted on  2014-10-17   10:12:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Orthodoxa (#1) (Edited)

I know that for many of my Protestant brethren, this worship service may seem to be very strange and elaborate.

Yes it's overly elaborate -- I've been party to many Catholic services. That said, do your thing. Frankly, the Lord will know your heart.

So what comprises proper worship of God?

The truth is, "proper worship" is a far more simple matter than some believe it is.

Giving glory to the Father and the Son, building on a personal relationship, love of fellow man, maintaining a fellowship in or out of God's House, forgiveness, sharing the Gospel, refraining from putting the World before the Lord....

IMHO, making the criteria and requisites for acceptance into Heaven so heavily ensconced in rituals is making too many who WANT to believe give up completely.

Liberator  posted on  2014-10-17   12:09:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Liberator (#2)

I know that for many of my Protestant brethren, this worship service may seem to be very strange and elaborate.

Yes it's overly elaborate -- I've been party to many Catholic swervices. That said, do your thing. Frankly, the Lord will know your heart.

So what comprises proper worship of God?

The truth is, "proper worship" is a far more simple matter than some believe it is.

Giving glory to the Father and the Son, building on a personal relationship, love of fellow man, maintaining a fellowship in or out of God's House, forgiveness, sharing the Gospel, refraining from putting the World before the Lord....

IMHO, making the criteria and requisites for acceptance into Heaven so heavily ensconced in rituals is making too many who WANT to believe give up completely.

The assertion that beautiful Church services are actually detrimental, causing people to give up completely, is rather new to me.

I would agree completely that what matters most is what is in our heart and our actual personal relationship with God. A ceremony will not save you. However, in my experience, the Church in her wisdom has maintained worship that helps to draw in the believer into a deeper relationship with God. One historical example from non-believers being drawn to Christ by the Liturgy is the account of when St. Vladimir sent envoys to learn of the different religions of different nations and report back to him what they discovered:

"The envoys reported: "When we journeyed among the Bulgars, we beheld how they worship in their temple, called a mosque, while they stand ungirt. The Bulgarian bows, sits down, looks hither and thither like one possessed, and there is no happiness among them, but instead only sorrow and a dreadful stench. Their religion is not good... Then we went on to Greece, and the Greeks led us to the edifices where they worship their God, and we knew not whether we were in heaven or on earth. For on earth there is no such splendour or such beauty, and we are at a loss how to describe it. We know only that God dwells there among men, and their service is fairer than the ceremonies of other nations. For we cannot forget that beauty. Every man, after tasting something sweet, is afterward unwilling to accept that which is bitter, and therefore we cannot dwell longer here.""

-- And what about my earlier question concerning incense in worship? It is completely Biblical, yet I have lost count of the number of times in the past that Protestant friends and acquaintances have spoken of it as though it were something evil. Liturgical Churches are often accused of following "the traditions of men", but what is the reason that most Protestants have abandoned the use of incense in worship -- other than that their predecessors didn't use it and so it has become their own "tradition" to avoid it completely?

Orthodoxa  posted on  2014-10-17   12:30:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 3.

#4. To: Orthodoxa (#3) (Edited)

The assertion that beautiful Church services are actually detrimental, causing people to give up completely, is rather new to me.

HERE is my actual quote:

"IMHO, making the criteria and requisites for acceptance into Heaven so heavily ensconced in rituals is making too many who WANT to believe give up completely."

A bit different than your interpretation, no?

I would agree completely that what matters most is what is in our heart and our actual personal relationship with God. A ceremony will not save you.

And that's ALL that matters. Even better that we agree on this.

However, in my experience, the Church in her wisdom has maintained worship that helps to draw in the believer into a deeper relationship with God.

I guess that may be a possibility for some worshipers.

And what about my earlier question concerning incense in worship? It is completely Biblical, yet I have lost count of the number of times in the past that Protestant friends and acquaintances have spoken of it as though it were something evil. Liturgical Churches are often accused of following "the traditions of men", but what is the reason that most Protestants have abandoned the use of incense in worship -- other than that their predecessors didn't use it and so it has become their own "tradition" to avoid it completely?

Look -- I'm not going to dwell on the minutiae of rituals and traditions as a matter of necessity of soul-saving. What MIGHT be considered "evil" is an obsession or belief those those rituals are requisites that supersede the simple Gospel message.

Liberator  posted on  2014-10-17 12:48:11 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 3.

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