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Title: Hidden secret of Gezer: A pre-Solomonic city beneath the ruins
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/.premium-1.554228
Published: Dec 15, 2013
Author: Ran Shapira
Post Date: 2013-12-15 21:17:09 by A K A Stone
Keywords: None
Views: 37698
Comments: 66

A summer dig unexpectedly reveals remains of an unknown city beneath the known Canaanite one.

Ancient Gezer (Samuel Wolff)

The walls in the ancient city beneath Gezer are as much as a meter thick. Photo by Samuel Wolff

Several pottery vessels, a cache of cylinder seals, and a large scarab with the cartouche of King Amenhotep III attest to the existence of a previously unknown Canaanite city in the land of Israel, archaeologists say. Where was it hiding? Underneath another Canaanite city – the famous ruins of Gezer.

The scarab and other artifacts were found this summer at a level dating from the Late Bronze Age (14th century BCE) in ancient Gezer, a major Canaanite city located along the strategic coastal highway between Egypt and Mesopotamia.

The first signs that there was an unknown city lurking there were found by Dr. Steven Ortiz of the Tandy Institute for Archaeology at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, and Dr. Samuel Wolff of the Israel Antiquities Authority, who have directed the excavations at Gezer for six seasons. They believe the hidden city was destroyed during the Egyptian 18th Dynasty's rule over the southern Levant, and the new Gezer was built on top of it.

Amenhotep III, by the way, was the father of the heretic King Akhenaten and also grandfather to Tutankhamun, whose fabulous tomb was discovered in 1922 by Howard Carter and Lord Carnarvon.

Enter Reshef, the Canaanite war god

In the late Bronze Age, circa 1,400 BCE, Gezer, then the capital city in the region, was burned to the ground. Possibly it was another victim of the incessant internecine warfare between the Canaanite cities at the time, as described so evocatively in the well-known Tell el-Amarna correspondence.

It was while digging into the remains of this known devastation that the momentous discoveries were made.

The inhabitants of the proto-Gezer of 1,400 BCE were clearly Canaanites, said Ortiz. But artifacts found at the site indicate strong ties with Egypt.

For instance, there is the small cylinder seal found at the site, just 2.5cm in height, bearing a rare image of the Canaanite god Reshef subduing his enemies. Identification of the ruins with the biblical city of Gezer rely among other things on inscriptions found there: 'Boundary of Gezer' Identification of the ruins with the biblical city of Gezer rely among other things on inscriptions found there: 'Boundary of Gezer'Wikimedia Commons

Reshef, a central god in the Canaanite pantheon, was – inter alia – in charge of diseases, plagues and conflagrations. In the seal he is portrayed shooting an arrow from a big bow towards about ten rivals depicted in states of submission and fall.

Worship of Reshef was common in the New Kingdom of Egypt period, says Ornan – and the cylinder seal from Gezer shows clear Egyptian influence. The miniature depiction of the god is done in the style of the awe-inspiring Egyptian embossments that show triumphs of the pharaohs.

“The question is whether the Late Bronze Age Gezerites were supporters, or subjects, of the Egyptian 18th Dynasty," says says Prof. Tallay Ornan of the Institute of Archaeology at the Hebrew University. "We know that during the 14th century BCE, the king of Gezer was responsible for various conflicts within the region. The Late Bronze Age destruction either represents an Egyptian campaign to subdue Gezer, or local Canaanites attacking an Egyptian stronghold at Gezer."

That's not a support system, that's a city

Gezer lies between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. The archaeological team, some 80 staff and students from the U.S., Israel, the Palestinian Authority, Russia, Korea, and Hong Kong were removing a wall dating from later - the 10th century BCE, known as the Iron IIA period – and discerned a yet earlier city wall.

They had vaguely known the wall was there, but had thought it was a subterranean support system for the later Iron Age wall, Ortiz explains. “It became evident that our original interpretation was wrong," he says. The lower wall had been built as much as 200 years earlier; the 10th century CE wall had been built on top of it after the city's destruction by fire.

This earlier wall was one meter thick, and had several rooms attached to it. These rooms were filled with rubble nearly a meter in height, from catastrophic destruction. These earlier remains included shards from Canaanite storage jars, Philistine pottery and other items. A fragment of a Philistine figurine was also found.

Since Gezer was Canaanite, says Ortiz, the Philistine pottery either represents trade relations or a group of Philistines living among the Canaanites.

A city as dowry

As for the Egyptian influence, according to the biblical account, Gezer was conquered by an Egyptian pharaoh and was later given to Solomon as a wedding gift when the Israelite king married the pharaoh’s daughter.

Solomon is also recorded in the biblical account as having built walls around Gezer, as he did at Jerusalem, Hazor, and Megiddo, all sites currently under excavation. Excavations at Gezer have been regarded as a key to understanding and resolving the debate among biblical scholars and archaeologists regarding the appropriate chronology of events and ruling Israelite and Judahite kings.

Gezer is also famous for its massive ancient water-tunnel system, which is also currently under excavation. Last summer Dr. Tsvika Tsuk, chief archaeologist at the Israel Nature and Parks Authority, said the water system at Gezer was the largest Canaanite water system found in the country. It includes a large entrance carved in bedrock. From there, a 50-meter tunnel runs at a 39-degree slope. The tunnel is 7 meters tall and 4 meters wide.

Tsuk and his colleagues, Jim Parker, Daniel Warner, and Dennis Cole of the Old Testament and Archaeology at New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary, believe the water system was built in the Middle Bronze Age IIB (1750-1550 BCE). But it fell out of use around 1,300 BCE, based on pottery found at the end of last season’s work.

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#1. To: A K A Stone (#0)

Will look at this tomorrow. However don't we have a few gezers who post here?

5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; 6 In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct[a] your paths.(Proverbs 3:5-6)

redleghunter  posted on  2013-12-16   0:49:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: buck, sneakypete (#0)

For your edification.

A K A Stone  posted on  2013-12-16   7:50:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: redleghunter (#1)

However don't we have a few gezers who post here?

Don't you mean Geezers?

"Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it."

CZ82  posted on  2013-12-16   8:31:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: CZ82 (#3)

Yeah, found something interesting to write about:)

5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; 6 In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct[a] your paths.(Proverbs 3:5-6)

redleghunter  posted on  2013-12-16   10:34:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: A K A Stone, *Archeology and Digs* (#2)

Thanks for the ping,Stone.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2013-12-16   11:06:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: A K A Stone, sneakypete (#2)

For your edification.

Are you out of your freakin' mind? Your posted article does nothing concerning any moral or intellectual improvement for anyone ... with exception of yourself. What the article PERFORMS as on the other thread that I have ensured you are aware that has been discussed between you and myself for the past couple of days; there are no facts about the Jewish exodus from Egypt anywhere on the planet. Certainly, if such a fact existed there would have been some data content about 1400 BCE. The article supports my contention that Egypt and all societies at that time had no knowledge of Moses. Why? The dude did not exist, except in the Bible.

The Bible was created by Jews after their exile in Babylon, circa 500 BCE. The Jews learned to write ideas by the Babylonians and when they departed Babylon for "Israel" created the Bible. The old testament (Tanakh) is just a pile of faebles, most of which can not be confirmed anywhere on the planet.

buck  posted on  2013-12-16   20:40:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: buck (#6)

Take it easy, Buck. Archeologists have made some amazing finds in Biblical Holy Lands. Many millions of people have complete faith in the Scriptures, both Old and New Testaments.

If you don't believe, so be it. If you are fortunate, God will have mercy on you and bring you to the faith that will keep you from going to that well-heated place in the afterlife.

Don  posted on  2013-12-17   23:03:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Don, redleghunter (#7) (Edited)

Many millions of people have complete faith in the Scriptures, both Old and New Testaments.

Even Mullah Don tips his hand here. It's faith, not fact.

And in case the meaning of the word "faith" confuses you, for your convenience I provide a definition below, with the relevant parts in boldface.

- strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.

meguro  posted on  2013-12-17   23:24:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: redleghunter (#4)

However don't we have a few gezers who post here?

Don't you mean Geezers?

Yeah, found something interesting to write about :)

I'm not exactly sure who the oldest geezer is on LF, my guess would have to be pete. :)

"Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it."

CZ82  posted on  2013-12-18   6:57:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: meguro, Don (#8)

- strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.

Interesting definition but not even close.

Faith is an act, or a readiness to act, based on the confidence one has in the object of their belief. The confidence is based on the evidence presented.

Proof is subjective. Example. You may have proof meguro is an actual person. I do not, the meguro handle could be an automated program responding to key words. However, I have evidence that meguro may be a real person given an automated program may not be able to interact on every subject. I also have no proof you are who you say you are.

You define faith as a leap into the dark. Meaning there is no evidence to examine. The entire purpose for God revealing Himself and ensuring His written Word survived human history is to provide us with that evidence.

Here is a Biblical example of "Faith is an act, or a readiness to act, based on the confidence one has in the object of their belief.":

Acts 17:

10 Then the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea. When they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so. 12 Therefore many of them believed, and also not a few of the Greeks, prominent women as well as men.

5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; 6 In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct[a] your paths.(Proverbs 3:5-6)

redleghunter  posted on  2013-12-18   13:13:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Don (#7)

Many millions of people have complete faith in the Scriptures, both Old and New Testaments.

Don't you sense an issue with your comment? I do, there is little or no FACT or substance to support the faith about "scripture."

buckeroo  posted on  2013-12-18   13:40:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: redleghunter (#10)

Interesting definition but not even close.

So now you're taking on an established English dictionary? That's pretty funny. LOL!

You may have proof meguro is an actual person. I do not, the meguro handle could be an automated program responding to key words. However, I have evidence that meguro may be a real person given an automated program may not be able to interact on every subject. I also have no proof you are who you say you are.

But aren't my posts my "written word" to prove my existence?

The entire purpose for God revealing Himself and ensuring His written Word survived human history is to provide us with that evidence.

So where's you evidence of what this god looks like? Where's your evidence that you can speak to him and get a response? Where's your evidence that even if this god existed at one point, that it still exists?

The evidence you have is some written word (Scriptures) that you claim was written by this god. So while the evidence of this "written word" may be objective, the "evidence" of who actually wrote is purely subjective. And plenty of other religions make the same claim as Christianity. For example, in Islam, it's the Koran that provides the "written word of god." So both you and Muslims would make the same claim, namely that you have "objective evidence" that your deity exists. You can't both be right, can you?

meguro  posted on  2013-12-18   19:25:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: meguro, A K A Stone, Don, BorisY (#12)

How many established witnesses do you have that you write what you write and it is actually you. When you reach 500 at one time then we can talk.

I have posted the references to you more than 10 times over the past couple of years. Reference 1 Corinthians chapter 15 for the eyewitness account of people who saw Jesus AFTER He rose from the dead. Jesus Christ performed miracles in front of thousands at a time and in two cases fed those thousands from a few pieces of bread and fish.

If you track the history of early Christians the Scriptures have never been out of sight. Some tend to believe hundreds of years passed before someone decided what really were the scriptures. The early church fathers some of them discipled by the apostles all wrote about and quoted the scriptures to include both the NT and OT.

The Muslims can only claim one witness to the writing of their Qur'an. That would be Mohammad. No one else witnessed the revelations and the results of the revelations. The same OT Torah that the Muslims believe are inspired clearly states for something to be established there needs to be two or more witnesses. If you would care to read the Gospels, Jesus confirms this.

Jesus Christ confirmed He was the Messiah, the Son of God and Truly God and truly man. Therefore, this is what Yeshua HaMashiach (Jesus Christ) God has to say about other religions and their claims, and which no other religion can claim nor tries to claim:

John 14:

6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; 6 In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct[a] your paths.(Proverbs 3:5-6)

redleghunter  posted on  2013-12-18   22:38:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: buckeroo, Don, A K A Stone (#11)

I do, there is little or no FACT or substance to support the faith about "scripture."

Is your doubt on whether or not the Scriptures written then are the same today?

There is more than one codex of manuscripts and within each codex there are hundreds to thousands of manuscripts. Amazingly when compared there is a 95% match rate between them and the remaining 5% has to do with some (few) that are damaged with age.

That is like having thousands of Declaration of Independence manuscripts 2,000 years from now and maybe a few are missing the bottom of the page where some signatures are missing; however the majority having the signatures. Would you throw out the entire Declaration of Independence 2,000 years from now because five of 100 copies were missing three or four signatures?

5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; 6 In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct[a] your paths.(Proverbs 3:5-6)

redleghunter  posted on  2013-12-18   23:28:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: redleghunter (#13) (Edited)

How many established witnesses do you have that you write what you write and it is actually you. When you reach 500 at one time then we can talk.

Well then, piss off.

I don't follow your religion. Never have, never will. You tell me Islam is full of shit, Muslims will tell me Christianity is full of shit. I think you're both full of shit.

Worship your deity all you like. Couldn't care less, so long as you don't dictate to me. Then we have a problem, otherwise it's all good.

And I think so endeth our useless discussion.

Amen.

meguro  posted on  2013-12-18   23:30:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: meguro (#15)

Amen.

Hallelujah!

Fred Mertz  posted on  2013-12-18   23:39:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Fred Mertz (#16)

Hallelujah!

Indeed. I'll be getting banned again soon.

meguro  posted on  2013-12-18   23:42:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: meguro (#15)

The only dictating going on is the gay mafia censoring of free speech. Like honest Phil of Duck Dynasty.

5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; 6 In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct[a] your paths.(Proverbs 3:5-6)

redleghunter  posted on  2013-12-19   1:30:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: meguro, redleghunter (#15)

When are you going to get over your Theophobia (amongst all your other problems)? You're just afraid what will happen when it's time for you to be judged for your actions. Get over it, for it will happen whether you like it or not. (And no you can't legislate or deny your way out of it either, crybaby).

"Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it."

CZ82  posted on  2013-12-19   6:53:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: buckeroo (#11)

You need to look up the meaning of faith.

Don  posted on  2013-12-19   21:24:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Don (#20)

You need to look up the meaning of faith.

"faith" as you seem to know the definition of the word is nothing more than rubbing your rubby-red slippers together and hoping Glinda, the good witch of the North waves her maejiick wand and you instantly get a pass back to Kansas. Although a pleasant thought, the world is often brutal in reality and creating daydreams to offset the challenges about the REAL world leads to nothing more than a waste of time.

buckeroo  posted on  2013-12-19   21:47:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: buckeroo (#21)

"faith" as you seem to know the definition of the word is nothing more than rubbing your rubby-red slippers together and hoping Glinda, ...

The founders of this nation thought differently. You're not a cultural American.

The majority of the country consistently says they are christian.

You are in the minority. And you're wrong too of course.

You're just an unhappy troll. Not much unlike the sex offender meguro.

A K A Stone  posted on  2013-12-19   21:52:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: redleghunter (#14)

Is your doubt on whether or not the Scriptures written then are the same today?

Not at all. As an opinion, it was a code of morals/family history that is all made up by a pile of goat/sheep herders wandering around in the hills of some freakish place that today is called "Israel"; it is nothing more than a cheap comick book.

The old testament (Tanakh) is all fabricated by just about anyone by the name of "anonymous" and for the most part represents little about the challenges of mankind; it is a testament to a struggling inbred group of otherwise Jews or as hey call themselves, "the chosen people." It is an amateurish attempt of creating a mythological connection for a genealogical structure establishing the Jewish bloodline based on the exile of Jews in Babylon when they learned how to write a few thoughts they learned from Persia. It is all mythological today just as it was ever was in history, circa ~500BCE.

buckeroo  posted on  2013-12-19   22:11:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: A K A Stone (#22)

The founders of this nation thought differently.

BAH!

You are lead into self-destruction by the lack of FACTS. Although it is true the early colonies maintained strict moral codes of conduct, many of the founders were not strict adherents to Christianity or any other religious faith. Most of the founders were highly educated and successful in personal pursuits and not about any adherence to religious values other than the rural code of conduct to attend church on Sunday; if anything, they were "deists" or "agnostics."

buckeroo  posted on  2013-12-19   22:18:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: A K A Stone, meguro (#22)

You're just an unhappy troll. Not much unlike the sex offender meguro.

What else can you call us? Obviously, you learned from the masters of rhetorical hate speech to label your opponents in an emotional tantrum to serve yourself without any objective evidence or factual substance.

You are as phony a Christian as your esteemed Beelzebub already breathes life into your soul, your mind and into your words on a little out of the way chit-chat forum; you have become that which you despise; you are the embodiment of the two horned creature.

buckeroo  posted on  2013-12-19   22:31:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: A K A Stone (#22)

The majority of the country consistently says they are christian.

So what? What kind of Christian are you talking about? How many "Christian" faiths are there? hint: over 200 organized assemblies in America alone. This means, there is more diversity in "Christian" than your two-bit Sunday school teacher can cram down your throat while you feverishly pull out a nickel from your blue jeans to give your "20%" tithing to prove your "christian worth" because you fall off roofs in O-HI-O as a licensed contractor.

buckeroo  posted on  2013-12-19   22:41:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: buckeroo (#21)

When I suggested to you that you need to look up the meaning of faith, I wasn't talking about your daffy notions. You can be just as biased as you please, it will do you no good whatsoever. And it doesn't make you look intelligent or sophisticated, only lacking in knowledge of the meaning of words in the English language.

Don  posted on  2013-12-19   23:02:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Don (#27)

OK, so why not explain the Holy Ghost and talking in tongues, Don. Let us see how daffy you are, pal.

buckeroo  posted on  2013-12-19   23:09:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: buckeroo (#25)

You're just an unhappy troll. Not much unlike the sex offender meguro.

What else can you call us? Obviously, you learned from the masters of rhetorical hate speech to label your opponents in an emotional tantrum to serve yourself without any objective evidence or factual substance.

You are acting like a troll. You go find a bunch of articles you think will make me mad. It's ok though. I enjoy your opinions and conversation.

A K A Stone  posted on  2013-12-20   7:03:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: buckeroo (#23)

Not at all. As an opinion, it was a code of morals/family history that is all made up by a pile of goat/sheep herders wandering around in the hills of some freakish place that today is called "Israel"; it is nothing more than a cheap comick book.

The old testament (Tanakh) is all fabricated by just about anyone by the name of "anonymous" and for the most part represents little about the challenges of mankind; it is a testament to a struggling inbred group of otherwise Jews or as hey call themselves, "the chosen people." It is an amateurish attempt of creating a mythological connection for a genealogical structure establishing the Jewish bloodline based on the exile of Jews in Babylon when they learned how to write a few thoughts they learned from Persia. It is all mythological today just as it was ever was in history, circa ~500BCE.

So you are going with the "greatest conspiracy theory known to mankind" approach. Pretty amazing those Jews are still around today.

5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; 6 In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct[a] your paths.(Proverbs 3:5-6)

redleghunter  posted on  2013-12-20   13:33:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: redleghunter (#30)

Pretty amazing those Jews are still around today.

Most "Jews" are not religious followers Judaism. They could give a GOD-DAMNED about their ancestral history as "the chosen people" or even mankind as they personally indulge in ways to fool your pal John Hagee into delivering more of your hard earned money robbing Palestinians. All they want is to work for a government or a bank or any large institution and shake a stick at peons like you.

buckeroo  posted on  2013-12-20   22:17:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: A K A Stone (#29)

Science is not a "friend" to any religion, pal. Religious doctrines, traditions and practices are not based on factual data but mere myth. What you call, "Christianity" is just 3 mile high conceptual view of about 200 religious creeds that ALL call themselves "christian" which lags any factual capability to support "faith" with actual data.

As always, you lose: you lack objective proof or substantive capability to discuss the issues. To prove my point, go use your faith and click your ruby-red slippers to eliminate the discussion: you shall realize the same nite-mare you have always seen.

buckeroo  posted on  2013-12-20   22:39:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: buckeroo (#28)

Give me a good definition of faith and we can progress from there, pal.

Don  posted on  2013-12-20   23:51:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: buckeroo (#32)

Science is not a "friend" to any religion,

Science is the friend of the Bible. It says things reproduce after like kind. That has never been contradicted. Find that contradiction in nature. You don't. Evolution didn't happen. Evolution isn't science. Science contradicts nothingin the Bible. In fact when fools like you thought the world was flat. Columbus was reading the Bible and seeing thast the world wasn't flat but round.

Lets talk about faith.

Does your wife have faith in you? If she does what is it based on? Or if she doesn't what is it based on? You can have faith in the Bible and Gods word they same type of way.

A K A Stone  posted on  2013-12-21   0:03:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: buckeroo (#31)

Wow now I feel at home for the holidays. Here I thought we buried my crazy uncle but now he appears here on LF. Where ya been uncle Kev?

5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; 6 In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct[a] your paths.(Proverbs 3:5-6)

redleghunter  posted on  2013-12-21   0:53:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: redleghunter (#35)

Here I thought we buried my crazy uncle but now he appears here on LF. Where ya been uncle Kev?

He got lost in Hide My Ass and just recently found his way out.

"Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it."

CZ82  posted on  2013-12-21   6:54:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: A K A Stone (#34)

Science is the friend of the Bible.

As usual on your chit-chat channel, you are wrong. Science demands critical thinking based on facts. The assurance of facts is based upon measurement and repeatable capability/capacity about ANY phenomena that is of interest. Suggesting that your Sunday school teacher instructed you that your "sins are clean" because you BELIEVE in Jesus is not measurable with the exception of a single point piece of data. It is of little interest to me and most of mankind because the phenomena is not repeatable with the exception of your continuous brain-washing at Sunday school.

It says things reproduce after like kind. That has never been contradicted. Find that contradiction in nature. You don't.

BIG DEAL. All that is suggested is ordinary human experience of "likeness" or similarity of events is a common human experience.

Evolution didn't happen. Evolution isn't science. Science contradicts nothingin the Bible. In fact when fools like you thought the world was flat. Columbus was reading the Bible and seeing thast the world wasn't flat but round.

Explain how Abraham and Sarah had sex at an elderly age and had a son, Isaac? Oh, a special GOD event? How do you really know the FACTS when all you have is a Bible that told you so and a continuing Sunday school mantra about this bullshit?

Lets talk about faith.

Just "hope" when in moments of threatening situations, most people hope for an easy way out of the potential non-survival mode of their existence; people want to survive on a continuous basis. It is akin to BIG GOVERNMENT mentality, which is how YOU have continuously voted for many election opportunities.

buckeroo  posted on  2013-12-21   13:10:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: redleghunter (#35)

Wow now I feel at home for the holidays.

Oh, your bubble has bursted again. Nothing more to the devastating humiliation you feel about yourself.

buckeroo  posted on  2013-12-21   13:12:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Don (#33)

Give me a good definition of faith and we can progress from there, pal.

Look up a couple of posts just above.

buckeroo  posted on  2013-12-21   13:13:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: buckeroo (#37)

repeatable capability/capacity about ANY phenomena that is of interest.

Explain how Abraham and Sarah had sex at an elderly age and had a son, Isaac?

A similar miraculous conception happened, 9 months BC to the virgin Mary.

Repeatable, yep. Scientifically, confirmed.

Lots of witnesses too.


The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote Third Party


"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul

Hondo68  posted on  2013-12-21   13:53:46 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: hondo68 (#40)

Lots of witnesses too.

Nope.

The issues of and about Jesus Christ occurred after his crucifixion not before the often read and popularized Biblical maejiickal event of the birth. You don't read many historical documents, do you?

The Roman Empire was collapsing from political decay. Jesus was one reason that was later used as a message of hope about the new world, eliminating Roman hierarchical political structures in Judah/Israel.

buckeroo  posted on  2013-12-21   14:07:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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