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Title: Putin's Letter To The American People
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/12/o ... from-russia-on-syria.html?_r=0
Published: Sep 11, 2013
Author: Vladamir V. Putin
Post Date: 2013-09-11 22:24:46 by A K A Stone
Keywords: None
Views: 25011
Comments: 42

MOSCOW — RECENT events surrounding Syria have prompted me to speak directly to the American people and their political leaders. It is important to do so at a time of insufficient communication between our societies.

Relations between us have passed through different stages. We stood against each other during the cold war. But we were also allies once, and defeated the Nazis together. The universal international organization — the United Nations — was then established to prevent such devastation from ever happening again.

The United Nations’ founders understood that decisions affecting war and peace should happen only by consensus, and with America’s consent the veto by Security Council permanent members was enshrined in the United Nations Charter. The profound wisdom of this has underpinned the stability of international relations for decades.

No one wants the United Nations to suffer the fate of the League of Nations, which collapsed because it lacked real leverage. This is possible if influential countries bypass the United Nations and take military action without Security Council authorization.

The potential strike by the United States against Syria, despite strong opposition from many countries and major political and religious leaders, including the pope, will result in more innocent victims and escalation, potentially spreading the conflict far beyond Syria’s borders. A strike would increase violence and unleash a new wave of terrorism. It could undermine multilateral efforts to resolve the Iranian nuclear problem and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and further destabilize the Middle East and North Africa. It could throw the entire system of international law and order out of balance.

Syria is not witnessing a battle for democracy, but an armed conflict between government and opposition in a multireligious country. There are few champions of democracy in Syria. But there are more than enough Qaeda fighters and extremists of all stripes battling the government. The United States State Department has designated Al Nusra Front and the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, fighting with the opposition, as terrorist organizations. This internal conflict, fueled by foreign weapons supplied to the opposition, is one of the bloodiest in the world.

Mercenaries from Arab countries fighting there, and hundreds of militants from Western countries and even Russia, are an issue of our deep concern. Might they not return to our countries with experience acquired in Syria? After all, after fighting in Libya, extremists moved on to Mali. This threatens us all.

From the outset, Russia has advocated peaceful dialogue enabling Syrians to develop a compromise plan for their own future. We are not protecting the Syrian government, but international law. We need to use the United Nations Security Council and believe that preserving law and order in today’s complex and turbulent world is one of the few ways to keep international relations from sliding into chaos. The law is still the law, and we must follow it whether we like it or not. Under current international law, force is permitted only in self-defense or by the decision of the Security Council. Anything else is unacceptable under the United Nations Charter and would constitute an act of aggression.

No one doubts that poison gas was used in Syria. But there is every reason to believe it was used not by the Syrian Army, but by opposition forces, to provoke intervention by their powerful foreign patrons, who would be siding with the fundamentalists. Reports that militants are preparing another attack — this time against Israel — cannot be ignored.

It is alarming that military intervention in internal conflicts in foreign countries has become commonplace for the United States. Is it in America’s long-term interest? I doubt it. Millions around the world increasingly see America not as a model of democracy but as relying solely on brute force, cobbling coalitions together under the slogan “you’re either with us or against us.”

But force has proved ineffective and pointless. Afghanistan is reeling, and no one can say what will happen after international forces withdraw. Libya is divided into tribes and clans. In Iraq the civil war continues, with dozens killed each day. In the United States, many draw an analogy between Iraq and Syria, and ask why their government would want to repeat recent mistakes.

No matter how targeted the strikes or how sophisticated the weapons, civilian casualties are inevitable, including the elderly and children, whom the strikes are meant to protect.

The world reacts by asking: if you cannot count on international law, then you must find other ways to ensure your security. Thus a growing number of countries seek to acquire weapons of mass destruction. This is logical: if you have the bomb, no one will touch you. We are left with talk of the need to strengthen nonproliferation, when in reality this is being eroded.

We must stop using the language of force and return to the path of civilized diplomatic and political settlement.

A new opportunity to avoid military action has emerged in the past few days. The United States, Russia and all members of the international community must take advantage of the Syrian government’s willingness to place its chemical arsenal under international control for subsequent destruction. Judging by the statements of President Obama, the United States sees this as an alternative to military action.

I welcome the president’s interest in continuing the dialogue with Russia on Syria. We must work together to keep this hope alive, as we agreed to at the Group of 8 meeting in Lough Erne in Northern Ireland in June, and steer the discussion back toward negotiations.

If we can avoid force against Syria, this will improve the atmosphere in international affairs and strengthen mutual trust. It will be our shared success and open the door to cooperation on other critical issues.

My working and personal relationship with President Obama is marked by growing trust. I appreciate this. I carefully studied his address to the nation on Tuesday. And I would rather disagree with a case he made on American exceptionalism, stating that the United States’ policy is “what makes America different. It’s what makes us exceptional.” It is extremely dangerous to encourage people to see themselves as exceptional, whatever the motivation. There are big countries and small countries, rich and poor, those with long democratic traditions and those still finding their way to democracy. Their policies differ, too. We are all different, but when we ask for the Lord’s blessings, we must not forget that God created us equal.

Vladimir V. Putin is the president of Russia.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 39.

#1. To: All (#0)

I agree with much of what he says here.

I don't agree that we need UN approval to declare war. Our congress does that.

A K A Stone  posted on  2013-09-11   22:34:44 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: A K A Stone (#1)

I don't agree that we need UN approval to declare war. Our congress does that.

The UN Charter does not say that. A nation can declare war, or make war if it is attacked, with no declaration and with no permission needed from the UN to act in self-defence.

Using force against a member state that has not attacked the U.S. is an act of aggression. Being the aggressor, throwing the first punch, violates international law.

UN Charter 2-4: "All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations."

UN Charter 51: "Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. Measures taken by Members in the exercise of this right of self-defence shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security."

G.A. Res. 3314, U.N. GAOR, 29th Sess., Supp. No. 31, at 142, U.N. Doc. A/9631 (1974)

Article 1

Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations, as set out in this Definition....

Article 2

The first use of armed force by a State in contravention of the Charter shall constitute prima facie evidence of an act of aggression although the Security Council may, in conformity with the Charter, conclude that a determination that an act of aggression has been committed would not be justified in the light of other relevant circumstances, including the fact that the acts concerned or their consequences are not of sufficient gravity.

Article 3

Any of the following acts, regardless of a declaration of war, shall, subject to and in accordance with the provision of article 2, qualify as an act of aggression:

(a) The invasion or attack by the armed forces of a State of the territory of another State, or any military occupation, however temporary, resulting from such invasion or attack, or any annexation by the use of force of the territory of another State or part thereof;

(b) Bombardment by the armed forces of a State against the territory of another State or the use of any weapons by a State against the territory of another State;

(c) The blockade of the ports or coasts of a State by the armed forces of another State;

(d) An attack by the armed forces of a State on the land, sea or air forces, or marine and air fleets of another State;

(e) The use of armed forces of one State which are within the territory of another State with the agreement of the receiving State, in contravention of the conditions provided for in the agreement or any extension of their presence in such territory beyond the ter­mination of the agreement;

(f) The action of a State in allowing its territory, which it has placed at the disposal of another State, to be used by that other State for perpetrating an act of aggression against a third State;

(g) The sending by or on behalf of a State of armed bands, groups, irregulars or mercenaries, which carry out acts of armed force against another State of such gravity as to amount to the acts listed above, or its substantial involvement therein.

Article 4

The acts enumerated above are not exhaustive and the Security Coun­cil may determine that other acts constitute aggression under the pro­visions of the Charter.

Article 5

1. No consideration of whatever nature, whether political, economic, military or otherwise, may serve as a justification for aggression.

2. A war of aggression is a crime against international peace. Aggres­sion gives rise to international responsibility.

3. No territorial acquisition or special advantage resulting from aggres­sion is or shall be recognized as lawful.

nolu chan  posted on  2013-09-13   22:46:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: nolu chan (#3)

The Declaration of Independence also trumps the constitution.

A K A Stone  posted on  2013-09-13   23:01:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: A K A Stone (#6)

The Declaration of Independence also trumps the constitution.

The Declaration of Independence is not the law of any place and never has been. The Constitution is the organic law of the United States and trumps everything in conflict with it within the jurisdiction of the U.S.

nolu chan  posted on  2013-09-13   23:29:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: nolu chan (#7)

The Constitution is the organic law of the United States and trumps everything in conflict with it within the jurisdiction of the U.S.

The states trump the constitution. They created it.

Kind of like the parable in the Bible where the ruler left his house and left his servants in charge. Then he returned and and they thought they were the master. Paraphrased.

A K A Stone  posted on  2013-09-13   23:57:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: A K A Stone (#9)

The states trump the constitution. They created it.

The States, as sovereign members of an existing union, created the Constitution as the organic law for that union, and voluntarily submitted to its terms. No State, as a member of the union, is superior to the Constitution. The States may change or scrap the Constitution or the union.

The people delegated powers, not their sovereignty, to the Federal or State governments.

States is term with more than one meaning and the Framers knew which they meant by context. The States, i.e. State governments, did not create the Constitution. The people, acting as political communities known as states, ratified the Constitution through conventions with their delegates chosen for that purpose.

What was essentially done with adoption of the Constitution was to dissolve the union of 13 states and form a new union of 11 states. George Washington was in office, under the Constitution, more than six months before North Carolina ratified, and more than a year before Rhode Island ratified. Article VII provided "The ratification of the conventions of nine states, shall be sufficient for the establishment of this Constitution between the states so ratifying the same."

nolu chan  posted on  2013-09-14   0:17:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: nolu chan (#16)

All of these official documents were obtained in person in Washington, DC, from the National Archives. I was accompanied by two dear friends, Dane vonBreichenruchardt, President, Bill of Rights Foundation, Washington, DC, and my other friend who wishes to remain anonymous. He is considered a 'master' researcher because of his experience doing research at the National Archives. I am truly grateful for their help in gathering these documents and to the sponsors of my trip.

Dane and my other friend can verify we were given the run around during the collection of some documents. We asked for everything on the ratification of the Seventeenth Amendment. Every document no matter if it was a letter, vote, copy of the resolution. We were told the rolls of microfilm in the archives contained ALL records.

All of these documents were on microfilm and copied by all of us at some point. They were copied in order off the microfilm and we were very careful not to skip any pages.

If at all possible and you live near your state capitol, I hope you can visit and get court certified, every document they have on the vote and any correspondence from your state to Washington, DC on the Seventeenth Amendment — before more documents disappear. See link at bottom on the thief, Sandy Berger.

If you are a state legislator, please do everything in your official capacity to make your state archives produce all documents relating to the ratification of the Seventeenth Amendment by your state. I do not exaggerate when I say there is a high probability that some are already missing and we don't want more to vanish.

Many states were not in session at the time the Seventeenth Amendment was submitted. No Action was taken by some legislatures which begs the legal question:

If a state legislature was out of session at the time the voting process was underway, do they lose their equal right to representation due to actions by Congress beyond their control? I believe this is a KEY legal issue that must be addressed by the states; see:

Full text of "Constitution Jefferson's Manual And Rules Of the House Of Representatives Of The United States Eighty Seventh Congress"

http://www.archive.org/stream/constitutionjeff014670mbp/constitutionjeff014670mbp_djvu.txt

"The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses  shall deem it necessary, shall propose, Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by  Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may  be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.

"Question has arisen as to the power of a State to recall its assent to a constitutional amendment (V. 7042)."

Since several states were out of session at the time of the vote, have they been deprived of equal Suffrage in the U.S. Senate because they did not participate in the  ratification of this amendment? Is fraud (non ratification) enough to allow a state to declare it null and void in their state?

No Action taken: Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Maryland, Delaware. No record for Oregon, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Vermont, Washington State.

That Amendment was processed by Philander Chase Knox, Secretary of State in 1912, and then by his successor, William Jennings Bryan. I provide that just to clear up any confusion looking through the documents. The page numbers I refer to are ones I put on each page to avoid getting the documents mixed up since there are 239 of them.

From the official documents:

Department of State — Office of the Solicitor — Memorandum
June 2, 1913 — See page 17, 24 & 25

List of Errors in Resolutions of State Legislatures

Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Vermont, Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin, Wyoming.


Page 26: "...the Executive branch* of the Government ruled that these errors were immaterial to the adoption of the amendment, it is clear that the procedure in which may be properly followed in proclaiming the adoption of the proposed amendment — that is to say, that the Secretary of State may disregard the errors contained in the certified copies of the Resolution of the Legislatures acting affirmatively on the proposed amendment." (Italics mine)

* No conflict of interest there!

Please note on page 27:

"It is believed that this meets fully the requirement with reference to receipt of "official notice" contained in Section 205, Revised Statutes of the United States (quoted supra page 2) and that Minnesota should therefore be numbered with the States ratifying the amendment."

This will come into play regarding the legal research courtesy of constitutional Attorney Larry Becraft below.

William Jennings Bryan declared the Seventeenth Amendment ratified at 11:00 am, May 31, 1913, by proclamation.

AMENDMENTS TO THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

Page 12:

AMENDMENT [XVII.] 9

House, 48 Cong. Rec. (62d Cong., 2d Sess.) 6367, having previously passed the Senate on June 12, 1911. 47 Cong. Rec. (62d Cong., 1st Sess.) 1925. It appears officially in 37 Stat. 646. Ratification was completed on April 8, 1913, when the thirty—sixth State (Connecticut) approved the amendment, there being then 48 States in the Union. On May 31, 1913, Secretary of State Bryan certified that it had become a part of the Constitution. 38 Stat 2049.

The amendment was declared ratified on April 8, 1913

Constitutional Attorney Larry Becraft represented Bill Benson in a lawsuit over the Sixteenth Amendment in the State of Oklahoma in 2001. For additional information on that lawsuit, see Inside Oklahoma's 16th Amendment lawsuit.

Click here to read SHORT EXPOSITION RE LAW OF RATIFICATION OF CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS on Larry's web site. This is a lengthy and somewhat complicated document. HOWEVER, we must understand all the legal minefields and court rulings from the past. That legal research will be invaluable for state legislators and their legal staff.

In Bill Benson's book, he has a letter dated May 3, 1913, written by John B. Moore, Assistant Secretary of State to His Excellency, the Governor of Wisconsin. In this letter he says, "A comparison of the last mentioned Resolution with the one passed [emphasis mine] by the Wisconsin Legislature shows that certain clauses and paragraphs have been added in the later Resolution which were not contained in the Resolution passed by Congress."

Besides the fact this proves there was no conformity to the language for passage, note the date: May 3, 1913. According to the official documents, pg 43, Wisconsin's legislature ratified on May 9, 1913 — six days later. Wait! In the Benson documents is a letter dated May 5, 1913, from Governor Francis McGovern which states he acknowledges Moore's letter and the error in ratification (meaning it was no good). McGovern states he is transmitting copies of Moore's letter to the both branches of his legislature.

No other documentation showing another vote was taken.

Some of the states are not on microfilm in DC. They would be sandwiched between other states and should have been on the rolls: Oregon, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Vermont, Washington State.

Those documents (239 pages) I collected were court certified by the Archivist. I photographed them with the seal, but in order to go through them page by page, I had to cut the seal and the 'button's which bundled them. Those photos are here. (Also this link)

The file containing all the documents for the states above, click here.

(Please understand the file above is 68.76MB. That means it takes a few minutes to load, even with DSL. It takes longer on my system (and I have high speed) to load in FireFox than Explorer. It will also load in Netscape, but takes about five full minutes. I just want you to know it is there, it just takes some time to load such a huge file.)

Update - Janaury 16, 2012 - 36 States Did Not Ratify 17th Amendment - What Will States Do?
Why the Seventeenth Amendment can't be repealed

Three horrendous things happened in 1913 and yes, it was a conspiracy.

      1. The Sixteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution was declared ratified. The income tax amendment. It clearly was not.

      2. The Seventeenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution was declared ratified. It clearly was not.

      3. The unconstitutional Federal Reserve Banking Act of 1913 was passed.

The income tax amendment was critical. It was needed to feed the privately owned consortium of banks called the FED. The Seventeenth Amendment was critical to remove the right of the states of the Union to equal representation in the U.S. Senate. Henceforth, those seats were up for the highest bidder.

The states are stomped on. The American people are bled to death via heavy progressive taxation and those fruits of our labor go into the coffers of an international and domestic banking cartel draining the lifeblood of this country and our people.

It was a conspiracy. A provable conspiracy: The Creature from Jekyll Island: A Second Look at the Federal Reserve by G. Edward Griffin.

Griffin's book is a factual account of the secret meetings at Jekyll Island between powerful bankers to seize and control the monetary system of our country. They were aided and abetted by rotten, corrupt senators who got the bill pushed through. You can watch an interview with G. Edward Griffin on the "FED" here.

"This [Federal Reserve Act] establishes the most gigantic trust on earth. When the President [Wilson} signs this bill, the invisible government of the monetary power will be legalized....the worst legislative crime of the ages is perpetrated by this banking and currency bill." — Charles A. Lindbergh, Sr.

"From now on, depressions will be scientifically created." — Congressman Charles A. Lindbergh Sr.

"The financial system has been turned over to the Federal Reserve Board. That Board administers the finance system by authority of a purely profiteering group. The system is Private, conducted for the sole purpose of obtaining the greatest possible profits from the use of other people's money" — Charles A. Lindbergh Sr.

Lindbergh's book, Banking and Currency and The Money Trust is available free on line.

Supporting documentation and publications:

Fess, Simeon D. 1861—1936. works: Ratification of the Constitution and amendments by the states By statement: prepared by the Legislative Reference Service of the Library of Congress ... Series: 71st Cong., 3d sess. Senate. Doc., 240, Senate document (United States. Congress. Senate) ; 71st Congress, no. 240. Most large libraries carry this publication.

Proposing a Constitutional Amendment

Proof the Seventeenth Amendment Was Not Ratified

Bill Benson's collected documents. They are invaluable because they come from the state legislatures; their archives. These were not available to me in Washington, DC. I have not reproduced them because they are Bill's labor.

Special Page for State Legislators on Seventeenth Amendment

The Lunatic Left Is Getting Desperate

http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo183.html

On May 23, 1933, Congressman, Louis T. McFadden, brought formal charges against the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve Bank system, The Comptroller of the Currency and the Secretary of United States Treasury for numerous criminal acts, including but not limited to, CONSPIRACY, FRAUD, UNLAWFUL CONVERSION, AND TREASON. Below is an excerpt; the full text is here.

"Mr. Chairman, we have in this Country one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve Banks, hereinafter called the Fed. The Fed has cheated the Government of these United States and the people of the United States out of enough money to pay the Nation's debt. The depredations and iniquities of the Fed has cost enough money to pay the National debt several times over.

"This evil institution has impoverished and ruined the people of these United States, has bankrupted itself, and has practically bankrupted our Government. It has done this through the defects of the law under which it operates, through the maladministration of that law by the Fed and through the corrupt practices of the moneyed vultures who control it.

"Some people who think that the Federal Reserve Banks United States Government institutions. They are private monopolies which prey upon the people of these United States for the benefit of themselves and their foreign customers; foreign and domestic speculators and swindlers; and rich and predatory money lender. In that dark crew of financial pirates there are those who would cut a man's throat to get a dollar out of his pocket; there are those who send money into states to buy votes to control our legislatures; there are those who maintain International propaganda for the purpose of deceiving us into granting of new concessions which will permit them to cover up their past misdeeds and set again in motion their gigantic train of crime.

"These twelve private credit monopolies were deceitfully and disloyally foisted upon this Country by the bankers who came here from Europe and repaid us our hospitality by undermining our American institutions. Those bankers took money out of this Country to finance Japan in a war against Russia. They created a reign of terror in Russia with our money in order to help that war along. They instigated the separate peace between Germany and Russia, and thus drove a wedge between the allies in World War.

"They financed Trotsky's passage from New York to Russia so that he might assist in the destruction of the Russian Empire. They fomented and instigated the Russian Revolution, and placed a large fund of American dollars at Trotsky's disposal in one of their branch banks in Sweden so that through him Russian homes might be thoroughly broken up and Russian children flung far and wide from their natural protectors. They have since begun breaking up of American homes and the dispersal of American children. "Mr. Chairman, there should be no partisanship in matters concerning banking and currency affairs in this Country, and I do not speak with any.

"In 1912 the National Monetary Association, under the chairmanship of the late Senator Nelson W. Aldrich, made a report and presented a vicious bill called the National Reserve Association bill. This bill is usually spoken of as the Aldrich bill. Senator Aldrich did not write the Aldrich bill. He was the tool, if not the accomplice, of the European bankers who for nearly twenty years had been scheming to set up a central bank in this Country and who in 1912 has spent and were continuing to spend vast sums of money to accomplish their purpose.

"We were opposed to the Aldrich plan for a central bank. The men who rule the Democratic Party then promised the people that if they were returned to power there would be no central bank established here while they held the reigns of government. Thirteen months later that promise was broken, and the Wilson administration, under the tutelage of those sinister Wall Street figures who stood behind Colonel House, established here in our free Country the worm—eaten monarchical institution of the "King's Bank" to control us from the top downward, and from the cradle to the grave."


Devvy Kidd authored the booklets, Why A Bankrupt America and Blind Loyalty; 2 million copies distributed. Devvy appears on radio shows all over the country. She left the Republican Party in 1996 and has been an independent voter ever since. Devvy isn't left, right or in the middle; she is a constitutionalist who believes in the supreme law of the land, not some political party.

A K A Stone  posted on  2013-09-14   0:20:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: nolu chan (#18)

No Action taken: Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Maryland, Delaware. No record for Oregon, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Vermont, Washington State.

Can you document that this is incorrect?

A K A Stone  posted on  2013-09-14   0:22:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: A K A Stone (#19)

Can you document that this is incorrect?

Not offhand, no. However....

The article contains the certification of the Secretary of State for the 17th Amendment. Legally, as a political matter, his certification decision is final not subject to judicial review.

One of the cited sources, Bill Benson, had his crap with similar claims about the 16th Amendment shut down by the Justice Department as a scam in 2004.

Basically, the sources are a Who's Who of 16th Amendment Tax Protesters who specialize in selling snake oil. The case for the non-ratification 16th Amendment has been repeatedly rejected by the courts and people who don't pay their taxes based on tax protester books wind up paying their taxes with interest and penalties, and possibly go to jail. The claimed "victories" of these experts is when they avoid a criminal conviction for the actions. In the matter of paying taxes, nobody has ever prevailed on a non-ratification argument.

The List of Errors in Resolutions of State Legislatures re the 17th is probably the same crap that Benson tried to make something of relative to the 16th. Some of the states presented the proposed Amendment text with incorrect capitalization or punctuation or such. The ruling was that this did not negate the ratification. A state by state review of that (re the 16th claims) is provided here.

nolu chan  posted on  2013-09-14   1:04:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: nolu chan (#28)

certification decision is final not subject to judicial review

The real 13th amendment was certified.

Obama isn't a citizen via 13th amendment.

Deport the murderer back to ape land.

A K A Stone  posted on  2013-09-14   9:11:44 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 39.

#42. To: A K A Stone (#39)

Campion v Towns, USDC Arizona CV-04-1516 (15 Jul 2005) the REAL 13th Amdt (Not), at 2:

Additionally, the Court will correct any misunderstanding Plaintiff has concerning the text of the Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution. In his Complaint, Plaintiff includes a certified copy of the Thirteenth Amendment from the Colorado State Archives which was published in 1861. As included in that compilation, the Thirteenth Amendment would strip an individual of United States citizenship if they accept any title of nobility or honor. [Doc. # 1 (Compl.) at 46.] However, this is not the Thirteenth Amendment. The correct Thirteenth Amendment prohibits slavery. Although some people claim that state publication of the erroneous Thirteenth Amendment makes it valid, Article V of the Constitution does not so provide. Jol A. Silversmith, The "Missing Thirteenth Amendment": Constitutional Nonsense and Titles of Nobility, S. Cal. Interdic. L.J. 577, 590- 91 and 593 (1999).

nolu chan  posted on  2013-09-14 22:17:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 39.

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