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Title: Minimum wage politics. Republicans need to wake up.
Source:
chron.com
URL Source: http://www.chron.com/opinion/outloo ... icans-need-to-wake-4322055.php
Published: Mar 3, 2013
Author: Bill King
Post Date: 2013-03-03 01:27:00 by Ferret Mike
Keywords: None
Views: 14333
Comments: 41
If you believe, as I do, that the $1.75 increase in the minimum wage will have relatively little actual impact on the economy in either direction, it begs the question of why the parties have so vehemently squared off on this issue. The answer is found in the polling on the minimum wage. It turns out the president's proposal is overwhelming supported by the American people. A number of polls have confirmed that something in the 60 to 70 percent range support the increase. Of course, among Democrats it's even higher at about 90 percent. Independents are at about the national average and even about half of Republicans think it is a good idea. Yet, even though the proposal probably does not have much effect on the economy as a whole and it has the support of a wide majority of the American public, virtually every Republican congressional leader has knee-jerk condemned the increase. In fact, they have literally rushed to the microphone to trumpet the evils of the minimum wage. They have done so because there is only one group that opposes the increase, the tea party. By an almost 2 to 1 margin, self-identified tea party members say the increase in the minimum wage is a bad idea.The problem for Republicans in Congress is that tea party members represent a large bloc of, and in some cases, a majority of Republican primary voters. As a result, congressional Republicans are literally caught between a rock and a hard spot. If they acquiesce to what a majority of Americans want, they risk alienating the folks who decide who their party's nominees will be. So instead, congressional Republicans go in front of the cameras and tell the American people their opinion about the minimum wage does not matter because they are wrong which, not surprisingly, further alienates most voters. Of course, being the masterful political tacticians they are, the Obama political team knew exactly how a proposal to increase the minimum wage would play out. In issue after issue, the president has laid the same trap for the Republicans, forcing them to thumb their noses at the majority of the American public to placate their base. And every time, the Republicans fall for it, rushing over the cliff like a herd of lemmings. Most recent polls show that the president's job approval rating is far higher than Congressional Republicans. In some polls his advantage is nearly 2-to-1. And the approval rating for Congress generally and congressional Republicans specifically is at the lowest level in decades. Democrats now enjoy an advantage of several points in generic congressional polls. In a president's second term, his party has never gained seats in the mid-term election. But if something does not change, the Democrats are positioned to do just that. The fact that the Republicans may for the first time in the history of the republic lose seats in the mid-term elections of a president's second term shows just what a death spiral the Republican Party is in. Many moderate, business-oriented Republicans are increasingly turned off by the party's leaders' antics. The only reason many Republicans have not bolted from the party altogether is simply because they view the alternative as so much worse. When I first began in business more than 30 years ago, I had a mentor who would frequently ask me, "Do you want to be right or do you want to be rich?" His point was that sometimes insisting that you are right on every issue gets in the way of pragmatic solutions. It is a lesson that the Republicans need to learn, and had better learn fast. With demographic trends already forcefully moving against the Republican Party, it can hardly stand to be outflanked time and again by the president into making it look like it does not give a damn what a majority of the American people think. News flash to Republicans: This is still a democracy and, notwithstanding the dysfunctional primary system, at the end of the day, the majority rules.
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#1. To: Ferret Mike (#0)
News Flash, Mike, America's a Republic and there is NO WAY we need to nationally- mandate a minimum wage...MUD
"Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, I agree mudbot. The elephant that you are, you should work for peanuts.
So, meg, do you support a nationally-mandated minimum wage? Nine bucks an hour? There are a lot of unemployed folks who ain't WORTH nine bucks an hour, but they fit right into the ObamaNation as the permanently-unemployed...MUD
"Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, So, meg, do you support a nationally-mandated minimum wage? Nine bucks an hour? There are a lot of unemployed folks who ain't WORTH nine bucks an hour, but they fit right into the ObamaNation as the permanently-unemployed...MUD I doubt you're worth $9/hour, Mudbot. Just some peanuts for the elephant.
Mike get some education and you can advance beyond minimum wage.
They need to re word this statement to read "The Average dumb American falls for Leftard rhetoric and goes rushing headlong over the cliff like a herd of lemmings"... The article conveniently leaves out that this wage increase only effects the 4- 5% of people on minimum wage and the wages of the unions... Do you think there was a reason behind that omission??
When some dumb bastard hates you for no good reason then give them one, tell them what your political affiliation is!!
It's because a century of socialistic policies have conditioned the populace to expect giveaways from government at the expense of the free market principles this nation was founded on. (Cue mininggold. Someone said something about a free market! Come and spew some nonsense!)
"If men through fear, fraud or mistake, should in terms renounce and give up any essential natural right, the eternal law of reason and the great end of society, would absolutely vacate such renunciation; the right to freedom being the gift of God Almighty, it is not in the power of Man to alienate this gift, and voluntarily become a slave." Samuel Adams, Rights of the Colonists, 1772
Amen.
"If men through fear, fraud or mistake, should in terms renounce and give up any essential natural right, the eternal law of reason and the great end of society, would absolutely vacate such renunciation; the right to freedom being the gift of God Almighty, it is not in the power of Man to alienate this gift, and voluntarily become a slave." Samuel Adams, Rights of the Colonists, 1772
When I was working at Fort Lee, I remember figuring out that I was pulling in $33/hour. As an architect, I charge $75 per hour...it is what it is, but it doesn't have anything to do with a Federally-mandated minimum wage. My first job as a stock clerk for Be-Lo Grocery, I was making a buck-seventy-five and felt like I was raking it in...MUD
"Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, If that refers to my alleged Republican-ism, let the record state that I've been separated from the GOP since 2003-04... I'm officially a libertarian/constitutionalist INDEPENDENT...MUD
"Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, I'm officially a libertarian/constitutionalist INDEPENDENT...MUD Uh huh, sure you are. One who only votes Republican.
I have a college education, do you?
The minimu wage currently is not enough to live on and an adiquate wage wouldblood lifeblood into the economy, allow people to be fed, housed and stay offf assistance like food stamps. The ReThugs are going to oppose this and this will help them lose more seats in the next election. Which is why it was important to propose and push this nessesary measure now.
I'm not convinced he made it out of nursery school.
He probably flunked the entrance exam at nursery school.
"Uh huh, sure you are." One who only votes Republican." Not true again, meg. While I most certainly have never--and WILL NEVER--vote fer a RAT at any level of politics, I have voted Libertarian at the local and State level, and voted fer a write-in INDY in the Presidential tilt on more than one occasion (I've voted for Ronald Reagan fer POTUS three times since he left office)...MUD "Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, "The minimum wage currently is not enough to live on..." Depends on your definition of "not enough to live on"...lotta kids are still living at home, or in a house with multiple friends sharing the rent, or mortgage...that's how I got started. "...and an adequate wage would [pump] lifeblood into the economy, allow people to be fed, housed and stay off assistance like food stamps." If you've ever been to the centers of our urban decay, you will notice there ain't a lack of things that need to get done...next step is finding a way to get paid in doing them. The jobs are there, but not all of them necessarily need to be paid more than $5 or $6/hr. Once they make themselves more valuable to their employer, then minimum wage will no longer be an issue. For the record, my job as a developer/restorer of urban properties, tend to use local labor that gets paid $8/hour or college-aged kids who are just starting, then most of my long-term help gets $10-17 or even twenty depending on the job and who brought it in. "The ReThugs are going to oppose this and this will help them lose more seats in the next election. Which is why it was important to propose and push this nessesary measure now." There ya go, Ferret, admitting that all this is IS political posturing by the ObamaNation. At least you admit it. BTW...how are wages in various states with many different levels of living expenses the concern of bureaucRATS in DeeCee? Why can't minimum wage legislation be a state concern from here on out? Regards...MUD
"Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, Now there's a smart use of your vote. And news flash, Mudbot: he was Republican.
So says the guy billing at $75/hour. Why don't you set your hourly wage at $5/hr Mudbot, and let us know how things work out?
For the record, my job as a developer/restorer of urban properties, tend to use local labor that gets paid $8/hour or college-aged kids who are just starting, then most of my long-term help gets $10-17 or even twenty depending on the job and who brought it in. From your position in the housing industry you must have been one of first to realize that the real estate market was tanking during the Bush administration. I don't remember you ever mentioning a thing about it though on any of the forums you posted on.
Almost every country in the Middle East is awash in oil, and we have to side with the one that has nothing but joos. Goddamn, that was good thinkin'. Esso posted on 2012-01-13 7:37:56 ET
The minimu wage currently is not enough to live on and an adiquate wage wouldblood lifeblood into the economy, allow people to be fed, housed and stay offf assistance like food stamps. It wasn't meant to be "enough to live on" it was meant for those just starting out... It was never meant to be a living for those too stupid to learn something!! Tell me of the over 9 million jobs we've lost under Obozo how any of them do you think were minimum wage jobs???
When some dumb bastard hates you for no good reason then give them one, tell them what your political affiliation is!!
It's just another form of assistance though, not to mention redistribution. The money HAS to come from someone. It's not magic money that just appears because someone signed a bill into law.
"If men through fear, fraud or mistake, should in terms renounce and give up any essential natural right, the eternal law of reason and the great end of society, would absolutely vacate such renunciation; the right to freedom being the gift of God Almighty, it is not in the power of Man to alienate this gift, and voluntarily become a slave." Samuel Adams, Rights of the Colonists, 1772
People work for that wage, and many people depend on it to survive. People want to buy a commodity like another person's labor they should pay a fair market price for it high enough so they don't have to be a burden on society because they make so little they get food stamps and other public assistance. Many doing low wage jobs are older and thus not the most sought after employees due to their age. Many live in an area where this is demographically the largest block of jobs availible. I support a higher and nationally set minimum wage. I can understand you and others here might disagree with me, but that is how if goes on this issue. I know the reasons you disagree because I have read a lot on this issue, but I have taken the other opinion in regards to the issue. That is just how it goes, thanks for your view on this.
What if you've got an octogenarian retiree who wants to work at the local grocery store as a greeter/bagger (4 hours/day, 5 days/per week, something to stay active), and doesn't want more than five bucks an hour. Should this be disallowed by the Federal Leviathan? What if my construction company agrees to hire my brothers' boys to clean-up around the site and learn some skills. These nephews are great kids, but I've got a business to run and have no time for babysitting. For the hassle, I agree to start these teenagers out at five bucks an hour. Heck, they feel rich--and empowered--after working with me for a few months. But they are still not worth nine bucks an hour...yet they are learning some skills they can utilize for the benefit of future employers...should THIS be declared ILLEGAL by the InsideTheBeltway JUNTA? Regards...MUD
"Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, It ain't braggin' if you do it...MUD "Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, Nope, people are going to want the wage the law sets it at. If they are that generous, they can volunteer. I am a White Bird Clinic front desk person and volunteer three or four times a month doing that. I've worked as a volunteer cook at a hospice, volunteered removing invasive plants like English Ivy in the parks, will fix poor people's bicycles for the cost of parts, and many other things. All your proposal would do is undercut the job base in general, and so if an emploer wants to buy labor, this law is important to keep down the exploitation of people by her or him. If you want to hire somewhat in house like this, more power to you. But again, the range of excuses to undercut the job base availible out there should not be undercut like this. The job is still under the aupices of worker's comp and unemployment insurance. The liablities and protections should not be removed, and are dependent on the establishment of a minimum wage. If you want to pay someone 'sous la table' and are willing to risk the liablity of a law suit if they are injured, or you are caught by authorities violating laws regarding who should do the work, what their qualifications should be to do the work, or how the work is done, you take a risk I would not take. It's as simple as that.
Now, Mike, let's say I agree with your reasoning here...my question is why do we need to make these decisions/mandates at the Federal level? A good-hearted volunteer like yerself has got to realize that these growing social needs are not to be best addressed with a one-size-fits-all bueaucRATic nightmare like DeeCee has become. Devolve Power--and Responsibilities--to the States...you'll be impressed...MUD
"Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, What if you've got an octogenarian retiree who wants to work at the local grocery store as a greeter/bagger (4 hours/day, 5 days/per week, something to stay active), and doesn't want more than five bucks an hour. Should this be disallowed by the Federal Leviathan? Is this what you aspire to you in your golden years, Mudbot?
You're wasting your breath MUD, he hasn't figured out yet that "government" is causing all these problems and have no intention of solving them!!
When some dumb bastard hates you for no good reason then give them one, tell them what your political affiliation is!!
But what if they can't, Mike? What if the money is just not there? Jobs disappear, that's what. And what about the people who would work for that wage? Would you deny them that opportunity to get their foot in the door and eventually earn a higher wage? Raising the minimum wage will actually prevent many people from getting a job because many prospective employers will not be able to afford to pay it. And who are you to tell an employer AND his prospective employee what wage they will settle on? The wage that an employee and an employer negotiate between themselves is none of your business, nor is it any business of the federal government. Is that freedom? That is just how it goes, thanks for your view on this. Thank you. Does this mean you don't want to discuss it anymore?
"If men through fear, fraud or mistake, should in terms renounce and give up any essential natural right, the eternal law of reason and the great end of society, would absolutely vacate such renunciation; the right to freedom being the gift of God Almighty, it is not in the power of Man to alienate this gift, and voluntarily become a slave." Samuel Adams, Rights of the Colonists, 1772
Excellent point.
"If men through fear, fraud or mistake, should in terms renounce and give up any essential natural right, the eternal law of reason and the great end of society, would absolutely vacate such renunciation; the right to freedom being the gift of God Almighty, it is not in the power of Man to alienate this gift, and voluntarily become a slave." Samuel Adams, Rights of the Colonists, 1772
Wrong. At a certain point of income that person will lose the benefits of supplementing their retirement income completely.
"If men through fear, fraud or mistake, should in terms renounce and give up any essential natural right, the eternal law of reason and the great end of society, would absolutely vacate such renunciation; the right to freedom being the gift of God Almighty, it is not in the power of Man to alienate this gift, and voluntarily become a slave." Samuel Adams, Rights of the Colonists, 1772
That's easy...I'm a libertarian Independent...MUD
"Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, "You're wasting your breath MUD..." Well, at least it's some of that nasty, pre-toothbrush, morning breath I'm wasting... "...he hasn't figured out yet that "government" is causing all these problems and have no intention of solving them!!" He hasn't, has he? Mike, how did you develop this innate trust in the benevolent EFFECTIVENESS of the Federal Leviathan, my elseways libertarian friend? Regards...MUD
"Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, Perhaps...just I'll be doing it at the PGA Masters in Augusta, GA...lol!! No, really, I could see being a greeter/starter at a nice resort golf course...I know those guys don't get much cash compensation, but it would be more fun than bagging groceries. The real issue is, how is this a concern of the already overburdened Federal Leviathan? Can't the States figger this one out? Just like CO and WA figgered out the pot question...MUD
"Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, #37. To: We The People, yukon (#0) “The War Powers Resolution of 1973 gives the president the power to commit troops anywhere he likes for 90 days.” "The War Powers Resolution is incoherent. Section 2(c) provides that the president’s power to initiate military action is limited to “(1) a declaration of war, (2) specific statutory authorization, or (3) a national emergency created by attack upon the United States, its territories or possessions, or its armed forces.” But at the same time, it authorizes the president to introduce military force for up to 90 days for any reason at all, which is obviously unconstitutional." Obviously? Not so much, when the Legislative and Executive Branches agree on a solution for dealing with inevitable flare-ups that are bound to occur in an ever-shrinking planet, how is that "obviously unconstitutional"? BTW...WTP, yukkie, alleged Paultards and those who loathe them... Y'all ain't over it yet? We've got an ObamaNation to defeat, devour, and disembowel. Mutual Regards...MUD "Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, So.... does that mean you weren't in favor of our last two Neocon wars?
Almost every country in the Middle East is awash in oil, and we have to side with the one that has nothing but joos. Goddamn, that was good thinkin'. Esso posted on 2012-01-13 7:37:56 ET
Since the election's over, any chance of unbanning some of those Screen Names caught up in the infamous Paultard Wars of yesteryear? Thanks Mud, but I'm not interested.
"If men through fear, fraud or mistake, should in terms renounce and give up any essential natural right, the eternal law of reason and the great end of society, would absolutely vacate such renunciation; the right to freedom being the gift of God Almighty, it is not in the power of Man to alienate this gift, and voluntarily become a slave." Samuel Adams, Rights of the Colonists, 1772
That's fine...sometimes she just forgets to "UNBAN", so that screen name may already work. If not, no loss...MUD
"Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, I figgered we had to deal with Iraq eventually, and yes, I figgered it would eventually involve military invasion/liberation of the Saddam-enslaved population and a dramatic deposing of the tyrannical dictator. So yes, I expected Iraq, but Aghanistan surprised me a bit (as did the level of success we achieved in that horrific terrain...MUD BTW...was I in favor? Nobody likes to see young Americans die overseas (my kid brother is an Air Force Captain and was in Germany for almost 3 years during the Liberation of Iraq), but yes, I do believe Islamofascism is a cancer that needs to be headed off at the pass. Iraq and Afghanistan were two important victories in the ongoing struggle against Islamofaascism. Now, I am also in favor of pulling back from some military bases and decreasing our National responsibility to be the world's policeman. In the Guns vs. Butter debate, Europe, Australia, Japan, Brazil, and others have for too long foregone buying bullets becuz they knew Uncle Sam had their backs, so they spent money on social spending, and now Europe iis sick and weak and rioting...with Muslim fanatics licking their chops to come in and take over the ruins. Time to pay the piper, ALLIES...
"Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,"News flash to Republicans: This is still a democracy..."
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the US Constitution."
#2. To: Mudboy Slim (#1)
News Flash, Mike, America's a Republic and there is NO WAY we need to nationally- mandate a minimum wage...MUD
#3. To: meguro (#2)
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the US Constitution."
#4. To: Mudboy Slim (#3)
#5. To: Ferret Mike (#0)
#6. To: Ferret Mike, All (#0)
Of course, being the masterful political tacticians they are, the Obama political team knew exactly how a proposal to increase the minimum wage would play out. In issue after issue, the president has laid the same trap for the Republicans, forcing them to thumb their noses at the majority of the American public to placate their base. And every time, the Republicans fall for it, rushing over the cliff like a herd of lemmings.
#7. To: Ferret Mike (#0)
It turns out the president's proposal is overwhelming supported by the American people. A number of polls have confirmed that something in the 60 to 70 percent range support the increase. Of course, among Democrats it's even higher at about 90 percent. Independents are at about the national average and even about half of Republicans think it is a good idea.
#8. To: Mudboy Slim (#1)
America's a Republic and there is NO WAY we need to nationally- mandate a minimum wage
#9. To: meguro (#4)
(Edited)
"I doubt you're worth $9/hour, Mudbot."
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the US Constitution."
#10. To: meguro (#2)
"elephant that you are"
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the US Constitution."
#11. To: Mudboy Slim (#10)
If that refers to my alleged Republican-ism, let the record state that I've been separated from the GOP since 2003-04...
#12. To: A K A Stone (#5)
#13. To: We The People (#7)
"It's because a century of socialistic policies have conditioned the populace to expect giveaways from government at the expense of the free market principles this nation was founded on."
#14. To: meguro (#11)
#15. To: Ferret Mike (#12)
I have a college education, do you?
#16. To: meguro (#15)
#17. To: meguro (#11)
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the US Constitution."
#18. To: Ferret Mike (#13)
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the US Constitution."
#19. To: Mudboy Slim (#17)
I've voted for Ronald Reagan fer POTUS three times since he left office
#20. To: Mudboy Slim (#18)
(Edited)
If you've ever been to the centers of our urban decay, you will notice there ain't a lack of things that need to get done...next step is finding a way to get paid in doing them. The jobs are there, but not all of them necessarily need to be paid more than $5 or $6/hr. Once they make themselves more valuable to their employer, then minimum wage will no longer be an issue.
#21. To: Mudboy Slim (#18)
(Edited)
If you've ever been to the centers of our urban decay, you will notice there ain't a lack of things that need to get done...next step is finding a way to get paid in doing them. The jobs are there, but not all of them necessarily need to be paid more than $5 or $6/hr. Once they make themselves more valuable to their employer, then minimum wage will no longer be an issue.
#22. To: Ferret Mike, Mudboy Slim, We the People (#13)
(Edited)
I have a college education, do you?
#23. To: Ferret Mike (#13)
(Edited)
The minimu wage currently is not enough to live on and an adiquate wage wouldblood lifeblood into the economy, allow people to be fed, housed and stay offf assistance like food stamps.
#24. To: We The People (#23)
#25. To: Ferret Mike (#24)
(Edited)
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the US Constitution."
#26. To: Ferret Mike (#12)
Virginia Commonwealth University School of Business (MBA) December 1992.
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the US Constitution."
#27. To: Mudboy Slim (#25)
"What if you've got an octogenarian retiree who wants to work at the local grocery store as a greeter/bagger (4 hours/day, 5 days/per week, something to stay active), and doesn't want more than five bucks an hour. Should this be disallowed by the Federal Leviathan?"
What if my construction company agrees to hire my brothers' boys to clean-up aound the site and learn some skills. These nephews are great kids, but I've got a business to run and have no time for babysitting.
#28. To: Ferret Mike (#27)
"If you want to pay someone 'sous la table' and are willing to risk the liablity of a law suit if they are injured, or you are caught by authorities violating laws regarding who should do the work, what their qualifications should be to do the work, or how the work is done, you take a risk I would not take. It's as simple as that."
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the US Constitution."
#29. To: Mudboy Slim (#25)
(Edited)
#30. To: Mudboy Slim (#28)
A good-hearted volunteer like yerself has got to realize that these growing social needs are not to be best addressed with a one-size-fits-all bueaucRATic nightmare like DeeCee has become.
#31. To: Ferret Mike (#24)
People want to buy a commodity like another person's labor they should pay a fair market price for it high enough so they don't have to be a burden on society because they make so little they get food stamps and other public assistance.
#32. To: Mudboy Slim, Ferret Mike (#25)
What if you've got an octogenarian retiree who wants to work at the local grocery store as a greeter/bagger (4 hours/day, 5 days/per week, something to stay active), and doesn't want more than five bucks an hour. Should this be disallowed by the Federal Leviathan?
#33. To: Ferret Mike (#27)
Nope, people are going to want the wage the law sets it at.
#34. To: CZ82, meguro (#30)
"...tell them what your political affiliation is!!"
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the US Constitution."
#35. To: CZ82, Ferret Mike (#30)
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the US Constitution."
#36. To: meguro (#29)
"Is this what you aspire to you in your golden years, Mudbot?"
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the US Constitution."
#37. To: We The People, yukon (#32)
(Edited)
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the US Constitution."
#38. To: Mudboy Slim (#34)
That's easy...I'm a libertarian Independent...MUD
#39. To: Mudboy Slim (#37)
#38. To: Goldi-Lox, We The People, yukon (#36)
"I've just banned your account."
#40. To: We The People (#39)
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the US Constitution."
#41. To: mininggold (#38)
(Edited)
"...does that mean you weren't in favor of our last two Neocon wars?"
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the US Constitution."
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