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Foreign Invaders crisis cost $150B in 2023, forcing some areas to cut police and fire services: report Israel kills head of Hezbollah Intelligence. Status: Not Logged In; Sign In Bible Study See other Bible Study Articles Title: Live by the Sword, Die by the Sword? Source: [None] URL Source: http://brownbible.com/index.php/Bib ... he-sword-die-by-the-sword.html Published: Jan 10, 2013 Author: Ken Brown Post Date: 2013-01-10 00:41:03 by A K A Stone Keywords: None Views: 4272 Comments: 12 Did Jesus really say that all they who live by the sword will die by the sword? How could Jesus have said something that is so obviously not true? There have been many hundreds of thousands of career military men and women who have died peacefully in old age. Yet “those who live by the sword will die by the sword” is a common saying. An Internet search turned up millions of hits. Wikipedia asserts that the “proverb” comes from Mathew 26:52. Many other sources attribute the expression to Jesus, but let’s take a closer look at exactly what Jesus said and why. Matthew 26: 52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. Notice that Jesus didn’t say, “live by the sword.” He said, “take the sword.” Some versions render this line as, “draw the sword.” There is a big difference. Living by the sword is a lifestyle. Drawing the sword is a one-time act. The context of this statement is the night Jesus was captured to be held for “trial” and then crucified. A great number of men had come with swords and staves. Matthew 26:47 And while he yet spake, lo, Judas, one of the twelve, came, and with him a great multitude with swords and staves, from the chief priests and elders of the people. Matthew 26:51 And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus [The gospel of John tells us that this was Peter] stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest’s, and smote off his ear. 52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. 53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? 54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be? Peter was not the only one of Jesus’ disciples present with a sword. Others present who were armed asked Jesus if they should fight with their swords. Peter was just the only one who began to do so without asking. Luke 22:49 When they which were about him saw what would follow, they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword? Jesus’ statement recorded in Matthew 26:52 above was a response to Peter’s action and the disciples’ question. It was relative to the situation at hand, not intended to be a proverb for all times and conditions. They were surrounded by a “great multitude” of armed men. Jesus told his disciples that if they fought they would die. He fixed what Peter had done by healing the man’s ear (Luke 22:51). Then he told his disciples that he could call in more than 12 legions of angels [a legion was at that time probably 6826 soldiers, 12 legions would be 81,912] if he wanted to get out of the situation, but that he needed to go with the men and fulfill what the Scriptures said would happen to him. So the proverb is probably derived from Jesus’ words in Matthew, but it should not be attributed to Jesus. It is a corruption of what he said, ignoring the context in which he said what he did. PS: You might want to also look at the sequel to this article here. brownbible.com/index.php/...he-swordq-the-sequal.html Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest #1. To: A K A Stone (#0) Very interesting. Will go to the other link as well. 5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; 6 In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct[a] your paths.(Proverbs 3:5-6) redleghunter  posted on  2013-01-29   16:31:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #2. To: Orthodoxa, nativist nationalist, , liberator, ibjensen, out damned spot (#0) Thoughts? A K A Stone  posted on  2014-10-15   0:02:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #3. To: A K A Stone (#2) Gotta retire for the night...will address tomorrow. Liberator  posted on  2014-10-15   0:04:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #4. To: A K A Stone (#2) Thanks. I've read it, I'll need some time to digest it, I've go to get to bed. I'll share my thought tomorrow. nativist nationalist  posted on  2014-10-15   0:37:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #5. To: A K A Stone (#2) Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. (Matthew 26:52) If you live a certain way, it will shape your life and your ultimate destiny. IbJensen  posted on  2014-10-15   6:50:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #6. To: IbJensen (#5) 50 And Jesus said unto him, Friend, wherefore art thou come? Then came they, and laid hands on Jesus and took him. 51 And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear. 52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. It seems to me that if you take one sentence out like you have there. Then someone could make that one line into a doctrine. If you read the whole chapter. It seems to me that Jesus could have been talking about that incident right then. That if they fought right then they would surely die. But that doesn't mean that everyone who takes up the sword for all time will surely die. Something to think about. A K A Stone  posted on  2014-10-15   7:00:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #7. To: A K A Stone (#2) I would agree with your interpretation that our Lord was speaking about the direct situation that they were in at that moment -- that if they were to begin fighting, that it would only result in all of their deaths, and of course He knew that it was not His role to die in battle, but rather as a sacrifice for all of mankind. Furthermore, I would add that the overwhelming majority of traditional Christian Churches -- Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox -- have supported using force when the situation has called for it. Here is a traditional Orthodox Prayer for Protection of Soldiers during War: " O Holy Master, Almighty Father and Pre-Eternal God, Who alone made and directed all things; Who rises up quickly against the evil of the impious ones; Who, by Providence, teaches Thy people preservation of Justice and the obliteration of the sword on earth; Who condescend to raise up military columns to help the people: O God, Who commanded the Forerunner John to say to the soldiers coming to him in the desert, "Do not intimidate anyone … and be content with your wages:" We entreat Thee with compunction, that Thou gave Thy child David the power to defeat Goliath, and as Thou condescended, through Judas Maccabeus, to seize victory from the arrogant pagans who would not call on Thy Name; so too, grant protection in righteousness and truth to these Thy servants against the enemies rising against them, and by Thy heavenly loving-kindness, strength and might for the preservation of faith and truth. Condescend, out of Thy mercy, O Master, to grant them the fear of Thee, together with humility, obedience and good endurance; that they kill no one unrighteously, but rather preserve all righteousness and truth; that they may fear Thee and honor Justice; that they run in friendship to those who are scattered, extending thy love to those near them, serving the elderly with justice; and that their ranks fulfill all things righteously; For thou art our God, and to Thee do we ascribe glory; to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever, and unto ages of ages. Amen." Here is an Orthodox blessing of soldier's weapons: "Blessing of Swords/Sabers and Soldiers The Bishop or Priest comes out of the Altar to a table before the Ambon on which the weapons are placed, and he censes the weapons crosswise while the Reader begins as is common: Reader: O Heavenly King …, Trisagion, etc. … Psalm 35. Alleluia … Deacon: Let us pray to the Lord The Bishop or Priest reads this prayer over the weapons: O Lord our God, God of Power and Might, powerful in strength, strong in battle, You once gave miraculous strength to Your child David granting him victory over his opponent the blasphemer Goliath. Mercifully accept our humble prayer. Send Your heavenly blessing upon these weapons (..naming each weapon..). Give to them power and strength that they may protect Your holy Church, the poor and the widows, and Your holy inheritance on earth, and make them horrible and terrible to any enemy army, and grant victory to Your people for your glory, for You are our strength and protection and unto You do we send up praise and glory, to the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spirit, now and ever, and to the ages of ages. Amen. Then the Priest sprinkles blessed water on the weapons saying: Let the blessing of the Triune God, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, come down on and remain upon these weapons and those who carry them, for the protection of the truth of Christ. Amen. After this the soldiers carrying the weapons are blessed, with the prayer: Be brave and let your heart be stronger and win victory over your enemies, trusting in God, in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit." Here is a video whose general sentiment I would agree with. The armies of Christian nations should unite to defeat the jihadist enemies of mankind. This next video is slightly off-topic, I found it while searching for other items, but I thought I would share it because it is awesome. MP Galloway calls out 0Bamma for his helping the jihadists kill Christians. And back more firmly on topic, here is a great example of the Christian balance in wartime -- A Coptic Orthodox Priest defends a Muslim Egyptian soldier with his own body during riots several years ago. As one of the Orthodox prayers above states -- we are to kill no one unjustly. The soldier in question had been separated from his unit and posed no threat to the Christians in the neighborhood. Indeed, a few years later, to 0bamma's outrage, the leadership of the Coptic Orthodox Church openly supported the Egyptian military's overthrow of the Morsi Muslim Brotherhood terrorist government. Thankfully, the military there has been killing off the terrorists that they can find -- which is why McCain and Obamma were so upset by the overthrow of the Muslim Brotherhood. Orthodoxa  posted on  2014-10-15   21:12:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #8. To: A K A Stone (#6) It seems to me that if you take one sentence out like you have there. Then someone could make that one line into a doctrine. If you read the whole chapter. It seems to me that Jesus could have been talking about that incident right then. That if they fought right then they would surely die. But that doesn't mean that everyone who takes up the sword for all time will surely die. Something to think about. That seems reasonable to me. I recall a man I knew, family friend of long standing, our families were very close, and he was a wise man who knew the bible well. He warned about people who would take one part out of the Bible out of context and go to extremes, and he warned about interpreting a part of the Bible to where it would contradict another part. It would seem to me that he was speaking of that case. A lot of our ancestors made use of the sword, and one thing I fear is putting myself in a situation where I'd be judging the actions taken by past generations, and I would fear to judge them, which is not my place. In the case of Jesus, he was not a totally passive person, as shown by when he drove the money changers out of the temple. He had a mission to fulfill, and driving the money changers out may have been one of the reasons that the high priests decided he must be killed. His level of understanding was on a much higher plane than everyone else, so a lot of what he said must have gone over peoples heads at the time. Like when he said how if the temple were destroyed it would be rebuilt in three days, and everyone around thought he meant the bricks and mortar structure, when he was really speaking of his own death. I wonder if the writing of Paul might help here? He had an amazing mind, he could glean understanding from things that others seemed to have passed over, or had taken at face value and missed the deeper meaning. As for the popular understanding of "live by the sword, die by the sword," that seems to be another of those things that people think is from the Bible but is not. Such as "Fools Rush In Where Angels Fear to Tread" and "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned." nativist nationalist  posted on  2014-10-15   22:58:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #9. To: Orthodoxa (#7) Thanks that was very informative. Will have to view the vids later. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name (John 1:12) redleghunter  posted on  2014-10-15   23:08:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #10. To: nativist nationalist (#8) Another is "God helps those who help themselves." Not even a Bibke verse close to that saying. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name (John 1:12) redleghunter  posted on  2014-10-15   23:10:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #11. To: Orthodoxa (#7) MP Galloway calls out 0Bamma for his helping the jihadists kill Christians. I recall the time the US Senate thought they were going to rake him over the coals, and quite the opposite happened. That was like a pit bull among poodles. Thank you for sharing the prayers with us. It is so sad that so many in America have no idea of the Christian communities that survived in the Middle East until the present time. nativist nationalist  posted on  2014-10-15   23:10:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #12. To: Vicomte13, redleghunter (#0) Since we are discussing this. A K A Stone  posted on  2015-12-13   15:03:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

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