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Title: Romney / Ryan: Why do I Feel so Dirty?
Source:
Dissenting Opinons
URL Source: http://jwpegler.blogspot.com/2012/0 ... an-why-do-i-feel-so-dirty.html
Published: Aug 13, 2012
Author: jwpegler
Post Date: 2012-08-13 17:59:34 by jwpegler
Keywords: None
Views: 35063
Comments: 88
Over the weekend, Mitt Romney announced that he selected Paul Ryan as his Vice Presidential running mate. Just about every commentator on the left and right, has hailed this as a bold move. The left believes Romney made a tragic mistake selecting someone so "radical". The right believes that Romney made the right decision selecting someone so dedicated to "fiscal responsibility". Both sides are wrong. Ryan's so-called visionary / radical budget plan won't balance the budget until 2040. We had a balanced budget in 2000, yet the left thinks it's "radical" and the right thinks it's "bold" to wait 28 years to get America's fiscal house in order. More importantly, during the Bush administration, Ryan was just another big spending politician. Paul Ryan voted for Medicare Part D (the first new entitlement program since LBJ), No Child Left Behind (the largest federal intrusion into the classroom in history), Bush's two Middle East Wars, and TARP to bail out the Wall Street con artists. To top it off, he helped torpedo Simpson-Bowles, which would have lowered the top personal tax rate to 23% and the top corporate tax rate to 25%. Of course, Obama / Biden are much worse, with their failed "stimulus", ObamaCare, annual deficits of more than a trillion dollars forever, shutting down energy production in the U.S., crazy left-wing social engineering, and more big government crap being shoved down our throats than ever before. I've voted in 8 Presidential elections. I voted for the GOP nominee 4 times and I've voted for third party / independent candidates 4 times. Unfortunately, Obama / Biden are so bad that we really don't have a choice this year. I will be holding my nose while I cast my vote for the lessor of two evils once again. But I just feel really dirty doing so.
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#20. To: jwpegler (#16)
Sure. You keep trying to repackage your cowardice, so that it appears as though it's something else. I'm not one who buys your bullshit. What you post didn't originate with you. This is another person's model. The rules of disinfo are well- known; I even posted an article on the subject just this morning. So what's your *point,* dipshit? The quote from Michael Rivero is *cited* in my sig. The observation about free men rejecting false choices, is MY observation, thus there is no citation required. Oh, and BTW, you're using the typical straw-man argument, to divert attention from your complete LACK of a moral core. Amusing. You failed, but at least you're entertaining- albeit in a pathetic manner. Thanks for the laughs, dipshit.
"Most people prefer to believe that their leaders are just and fair, even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which he lives is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all." Michael Rivero
I guess the question is if "nobody" showed up at the booths to vote (say GOP for instance) do you think the GOP would get the hint and start recruiting better candidates??? When most people stay home, it robs the elitists in goobermint of what they want MOST: legitimacy. Without that, their power-base becomes unstable.
"Most people prefer to believe that their leaders are just and fair, even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which he lives is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all." Michael Rivero
"Better put some *ice* on that..." In your dreams....
Almost every country in the Middle East is awash in oil, and we have to side with the one that has nothing but joos. Goddamn, that was good thinkin'. Esso posted on 2012-01-13 7:37:56 ET
If it is all the same anyway and wont make any difference. Then why not vote Romney if for no other reason then to hurt Obamas ego. And to send the message that there are one term presidents. Obama can't be influenced by public opinion. Romney can be pushed. His finger is in the wind. If pressure is kept up. Romney can be pushed in your direction. If people who think like you are numerous enough.
Just a second. If you don't even vote in the primaries. How are you say going to get a better candidate? Do you sit around and wait for others in the primary to pick someone good? Then start voting? Seems to me we are going to have to get more people voting in the primaries to achieve those better candidates. But we are beyond that point now. Now it is Romney or Obama. Speaking totally logically and no emotion. One of them will be the next President. It will affect us all, our kids, our grand kids. We can sit on the sidelines or try to get rid of Obama. So everyone go get registered to vote. Just in case you change your mind on election day.
Don't you think they know what turnout should be on the average voting day... Now if all of a sudden voting dropped off 90% or so don't you think that would send them a message... Now do you get a questionaire before voting time wanting to know your opinion and asking for a campaign contribution??? If so what if you filled it out telling them exactly how you feel about them being a POS and told them to take a hike on a contribution (which is what I do)... What if everybody started doing that, do you think they would get the hint then?? Ideally this should have been done a long time ago before things got this bad, but oh well what can you say the average voter is a drip... They aren't engaged until the other side does something so totally phucked up (ObozoCare) then all of a sudden wake up and say we don't want that... Statistics show that politicians are usually about 10 years behind what the voters are thinking. Is that because the politicians are dense?? ... or is it because the voters won't get engaged and send their Party nastgrams explaining to them how they suck and what kind of candidate they want to vote for...
Choosing and voting for a presidential candidate is like picking which STD you want to suffer from….
Yes it would send a message. The message to the democrats would be. Man we just won in a lanslide. We have a mandate. Individuals choose to run. If they see a democratic marxist landslide. They see that the "good" side only got 5 percent. They wouldn't even bother running. The democrats would demagogue the issue and the country would be gone.; Less and less people are voting. It doesn't seem to be working.
Who is they? I don't think "they" would get the hint. Because "they" already have their opinions and beliefs and aren't going to suddenly start championing someone they disagree with. No "we" have to vote for someone who thinks like us. They will never think like us. We have to outnumber and overwhelm them.
Ideally this should have been done a long time ago before things got this bad, but oh well what can you say the average voter is a drip... They aren't engaged until the other side does something so totally phucked up (ObozoCare) then all of a sudden wake up and say we don't want that... Statistics show that politicians are usually about 10 years behind what the voters are thinking. Is that because the politicians are dense?? ... or is it because the voters won't get engaged and send their Party nastgrams explaining to them how they suck and what kind of candidate they want to vote for... I always fill out their questionairs and give them hell on them. For instance I remember one of the questions was do you want the GOP to stand by the Constitution, I told them I don't want them to stand by it, I want them to adhere to it and follow the rule of law. I know many other people that do the same on those questionaires and they too have quit giving to the GOP and rather give to individual candidates. You are advocating that the citizen average Joe Shmoe not vote and leave it in the hands of the Corporation lobbyiests. Just how does removing the citizen vote sway the parties one way or another?
Hmm. Interesting take. The simple answer for me, though, is really simple: voting for "the lesser of two evils" gives tacit *approval* of evil. To that, I REFUSE. And so should ALL men with moral courage.
"Most people prefer to believe that their leaders are just and fair, even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which he lives is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all." Michael Rivero
I disagree, all men with moral courage should be in the arena fighting for their cause. Sitting out with your so called "moral courage" is anathema to "moral courage". You're just putting the onerous on others to do the dirty work it takes, which is to engage in the fight.
You contradict yourself. In my case, I am fighting for my cause. I will NOT, however, fight or in any way support those that are in opposition to my cause- which is exactly what you preach. You've no idea what moral courage is, as your contradiction in the first sentence aptly demonstrates. You're merely another sheeple, following along with the latest iteration of group-think. "Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one." What fight is THAT? With WHO? Who are the ENEMIES? Who are the PATRIOTS? Where are the "candidates" that aren't merely deemed "electable," but have HONOR and INTEGRITY, and stand by their WORD??? SHOW me such men (and women), and than you'll have a point. Until then....? Well, keep chewing your cud. "Most people prefer to believe that their leaders are just and fair, even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which he lives is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all." Michael Rivero
So your "moral courage" is sitting on your hands while others at the local, state and national level are working to get those men and women in office who DO have the qualities you're bloviating about. Sorry, not buying your argument in the least. You are just another apathetic citizen who talks all moral outrage and then does nothing.
Oh, and worse than that, you attempt to sway others to do nothing as well, all the while putting forth that to do nothing is "moral courage"!
Saying absolutely nothing to your State and Local GOP office and then going to the voting booth and voting for the run of the mill Establishment POS isn't working either!!! They are just like the fools you vote against.... You either annoy the hell out of them and tell them why they suck ass or just shut up and keep on voting for fools... Everybody has a choice and they seem to be making it...
Choosing and voting for a presidential candidate is like picking which STD you want to suffer from….
What Party do you vote for??? That is "THEY"... If you don't say anything and then vote for them, they think you like the BS they are shoveling... And isn't that what's happening now, they keep right on running the same Pieces Of Schitt because they think the voters like them.... And isn't that what's taking the country down the tubes right now, nobody saying to them in a united voice "YOU GUYS SUCK ASS, IT'S TIME YOU LEFT TOWN"!!!!!!
Choosing and voting for a presidential candidate is like picking which STD you want to suffer from….
Isn't that pretty much where it is right now??? How much does your vote seem be to worth right now??? Not much because things are going down the drain in a hurry...
Choosing and voting for a presidential candidate is like picking which STD you want to suffer from….
Good for you, now if "EVERYBODY" would do that do you think that would get their attention???? Seeing 100-200 million people all saying the same thing should open their eyes... And if it doesn't then the people need to close them permanently for them.....
Choosing and voting for a presidential candidate is like picking which STD you want to suffer from….
A quote from Claire Wolfe best applies, here: And because of increasingly draconian penalties and electronic tracking mechanisms, our "lawbreaking" places us and our families in greater jeopardy every day. The question is: What are we going to do about it? Write a nice, polite letter to your congressperson? Hey, if you think that'll help, I've got a bridge you might be interested in buying. (And it isn't your "bridge to the future," either.) Vote "better people" into office? Oh yeah, that's what we thought we were doing in 1994. Work to fight one bad bill or another? Okay. What will you do about the 10 or 20 or 100 equally horrible bills that will be passed behind your back while you were fighting that little battle? And let's say you defeat a nightmare bill this year. What are you going to do when they sneak it back in, at the very last minute, in some "omnibus legislation" next year? And what about the horrors you don't even learn about until two or three years after they become law? Should you try fighting these laws in the courts? Where do you find the resources? Where do you find a judge who doesn't have a vested interest in bigger, more powerful government? And again, for every one case decided in favor of freedom, what do you do about the 10, 20 or 100 in which the courts decide against the Bill of Rights? Perhaps you'd consider trying to stop the onrush of these horrors with a constitutional amendment--maybe one that bans "omnibus" bills, requires that every law meet a constitutional test or requires all congresspeople to sign statements that they've read and understood every aspect of every bill on which they vote. Good luck! Good luck, first, on getting such an amendment passed. Then good luck getting our Constitution-scorning "leaders" to obey it. It is true that liberty requires eternal vigilance, and part of that vigilance has been, traditionally, keeping a watchful eye on laws and on lawbreaking lawmakers. But given the current pace of law spewing and unconstitutional regulation-writing, you could watch, plead and struggle "within the system" 24 hours a day for your entire life and end up infinitely less free than when you began. Why throw your life away on a futile effort? Face it. If "working within the system" could halt tyranny, the tyrants would outlaw it. Why do you think they encourage you to vote, to write letters, to talk to them in public forums? It's to divert your energies. To keep you tame. "The system" as it presently exists is nothing but a rat maze. You run around thinking you're getting somewhere. Your masters occasionally reward you with a little pellet that encourages you to believe you're accomplishing something. And in the meantime, you are as much their property and their pawn as if you were a slave. In the effort of fighting them on their terms and with their authorized and approved tools, you have given your life's energy to them as surely as if you were toiling in their cotton fields, under the lash of their overseer. The only way we're going to get off this road to Hell is if we jump off. If we, personally, as individuals, refuse to cooperate with evil. How we do that is up to each of us. I can't decide for you, nor you for me. (Unlike congresspeople, who think they can decide for everybody.) But this totalitarian runaway truck is never going to stop unless we stop it, in any way we can. Stopping it might include any number of things: tax resistance; public civil disobedience; wide-scale, silent non-cooperation; highly noisy non-cooperation; boycotts; secession efforts; monkey wrenching; computer hacking; dirty tricks against government agents; public shunning of employees of abusive government agencies; alternative, self-sufficient communities that provide their own medical care and utilities. There are thousands of avenues to take, and this is something most of still need to give more thought to before we can build an effective resistance. We will each choose the courses that are right for our own circumstances, personalities and beliefs. Whatever we do, though, we must remember that we are all, already, outlaws. Not one of us can be certain of getting through a single day without violating some law or regulation we've never even heard of. We are all guilty in the eyes of today's "law." If someone in power chooses to target us, we can all, already, be prosecuted for something. And I'm sure you know that your claims of "good intentions" won't protect you, as the similar claims of politicians protect them. Politicians are above the law. YOU are under it. Crushed under it. When you look at it that way, we have little left to lose by breakings laws creatively and purposefully. Yes, some of us will suffer horrible consequences for our lawbreaking. It is very risky to actively resist unbridled power. It is especially risky to go public with resistance (unless hundreds of thousands publicly join us), and it becomes riskier the closer we get to tyranny. For that reason, among many others, I would never recommend any particular course of action to anyone--and I hope you'll think twice before taking "advice" from anybody about things that could jeopardize your life or well-being. But if we don't resist in the best ways we know how--and if a good number of us don't resist loudly and publicly--all of us will suffer the much worse consequences of living under total oppression. And whatever courses of action we choose, we must remember that this legislative "revolution" against We the People will not be stopped by politeness. It will not be stopped by requests. It will not be stopped by "working within a system" governed by those who regard us as nothing but cattle. It will not be stopped by pleading for justice from those who will resort to any degree of trickery or violence to rule us. It will not be stopped unless we are willing to risk our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honors to stop it. I think of the words of Winston Churchill: "If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed, if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not so costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no chance of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." You still believe in the integrity of the system, even when all evidence shows that the system is utterly broken. Even when confronted with the fact that o'Bungler and mcRomneyStain are both bought-and-paid-for by the same people, despite the fact that they both lie 84% of the time (as documented on another thread at this forum), you still believe there is a difference. You actively choose orthodoxy over truth. So sorry, but you mistake your blind faith as fact, and objective, demonstrable fact as an "argument" than you can simply dismiss. You choose orthodoxy over truth. My current actions- noncooperation with the police-state, and boycotting the Kabuki theater we laughably refer to as "elections"- carry more weight, than stupidly following the same tired script, over and over, while nothing really changes. I follow the truth. You adhere to orthodoxy, and ignore the truth. "The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system, and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it." - Morpheus, "The Matrix" I feel sorry for you... I really do. Despite all your proclamations, you absolutely refuse to think... You will eventually find that official orthodoxy has nothing to do with truth. And when you do learn the truth, the price you pay will be... severe. Pity. BTW, you said: What fight is THAT? With WHO? Who are the ENEMIES? Who are the PATRIOTS? Where are the "candidates" that aren't merely deemed "electable," but have HONOR and INTEGRITY, and stand by their WORD??? SHOW me such men (and women), and than you'll have a point. Since you think you're so sharp, why don't you ANSWER me???
"Most people prefer to believe that their leaders are just and fair, even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which he lives is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all." Michael Rivero
What fight is THAT? With WHO? Who are the ENEMIES? Who are the PATRIOTS? Where are the "candidates" that aren't merely deemed "electable," but have HONOR and INTEGRITY, and stand by their WORD???
"Most people prefer to believe that their leaders are just and fair, even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which he lives is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all." Michael Rivero
Oh, and worse than that, you attempt to sway others to do nothing as well, all the while putting forth that to do nothing is "moral courage"! What fight is THAT? With WHO? Who are the ENEMIES? Who are the PATRIOTS? Where are the "candidates" that aren't merely deemed "electable," but have HONOR and INTEGRITY, and stand by their WORD???
"Most people prefer to believe that their leaders are just and fair, even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which he lives is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all." Michael Rivero
Well let me know how your refusal to vote works out for all USA patriots concerned with the status quo. And when you find a viable alternative such as mass resistance, let me know how that goes as well. If you have a true alternative to correcting the state of tyranny we are now in I would be only to happy to join if it can be shown that this resistance will alter that status quo. In the mean time it might behoove you to fill your rank and file more effectively if you engage in meaningful dialog rather than bloviating ad hominum.
FIXED. Now, let's get back to your statement, and my questions to you: You said: You're just putting the onerous on others to do the dirty work it takes, which is to engage in the fight. MY RESPONSE IS THE FOLLOWING SERIES OF QUESTIONS: What fight is THAT? With WHO? Who are the ENEMIES? Who are the PATRIOTS? Where are the "candidates" that aren't merely deemed "electable," but have HONOR and INTEGRITY, and stand by their WORD??? Now, what are your answers? You profess to know how to "engage in the fight." Answer the questions, or admit that it is YOU who is "bloviating ad hominum." [sic] In other words, PUT UP OR SHUT UP, bimbo.
"Most people prefer to believe that their leaders are just and fair, even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which he lives is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all." Michael Rivero
Aren't we all sinners and capable of evil. So no matter what wouldn't it always be a lesser of evil. Or greater good would be the other way to look at it.
Yes, we're all capable. It's another thing to actively choose evil... But you already knew that, so this is just a red herring. You proclaim such a deep appreciation for the Bible, then preach moral relativism to me??? Your overt hypocrisy disgusts me. Oh, you can mouth the words, but the real meaning is completely lost on you. In other words, you're just a pretender, like I have long suspected...
"Most people prefer to believe that their leaders are just and fair, even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which he lives is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all." Michael Rivero
Are you truly so frickin' naive that you think politics is ever going to be an honorable profession and that no man will not be corrupted? If so, you are not in the least ready for "Prime Time". I mean really?
Than you admit you stand with corrupt people. THANK YOU for proving my point. Bye, bozo.
"Most people prefer to believe that their leaders are just and fair, even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which he lives is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all." Michael Rivero
Another totally ignorant statement. All people are subject to being corrupted. But it doesn't mean that all people will be corrupted. I think you are looking for a perfect person. Good luck with that search or demand as it were. Especially among politicians.
No offense, but that's a hypothetical question that has no basis in the real world. As long as there is voting, some people will vote. As long as some people vote, NOT voting won't send any message because the system will keep pointing to the people who do vote as a confirmation of the system. It's the difference between the real world and theory. I live in the real world, where voting is seen as the ultimate expression of popular sovereignty. So, not voting doesn't mean anything -- it doesn't send any message and it will not change anything. I want to change something. Right now, I want to change the President. The ONLY way we can change the President is by voting for Romney.
100% correct. "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing" -- Edmund Burke
jw: 100% correct. "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing" -- Edmund Burke What crap. Claire Wolfe stated it best: But this totalitarian runaway truck is never going to stop unless we stop it, in any way we can. Stopping it might include any number of things: tax resistance; public civil disobedience; wide-scale, silent non-cooperation; highly noisy non-cooperation; boycotts; secession efforts; monkey wrenching; computer hacking; dirty tricks against government agents; public shunning of employees of abusive government agencies; alternative, self-sufficient communities that provide their own medical care and utilities. Your belief that by refusing to cooperate with the rigged game is doing "nothing." Your beliefs are demonstrably false, as I have shown time and again. Only when a man lacks moral courage, when he has surrendered his freedom and his integrity, will he allow himself to participate the illusion of freedom, rather than freedom itself. He'll mouth the appropriate platitudes, and thereafter attack those who have not yielded to their fears, cursing and condemning them, because they remind him of what he once was, and is no more... -CAPITALIST ERIC Keep mouthing those empty platitudes, to justify your lack of courage...
"Most people prefer to believe that their leaders are just and fair, even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which he lives is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all." Michael Rivero
Here is a hypothetical for you: Let's suppose that most people who pay taxes stop voting. What would be the result? Only government employees and other recipients of government handouts will vote. I saw this when I grew up in Michigan. It's called a school tax levy in August, when most people are on vacation, but school teachers have nothing better to do than vote. As long as government employees and welfare recipients show up to vote, NOT voting will have a NEGATIVE IMPACT. You are living in a DREAM WORLD if you think that government bureaucrats are going to stop voting,
Pass. I'm not interested in "hypothetical" situations. I'm interested in reality and TRUTH, wherever they lay. Talk about data. Talk about FACT. Leave the "hypothetical" situations for undergrad communists who don't have anything between their ears...
"Most people prefer to believe that their leaders are just and fair, even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which he lives is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all." Michael Rivero
Don't you think they keep close tabs on who actually comes out and votes.. I hear all the time about how one side or the other is having reduced voter turnout... Now if nobody voted GOP (lets say) and only half of the normal voters showed up don't you think that would send a message.. That only a few wants a handout but the rest want something better than what the GOP is offering... Now I realize you would have to do this selectively with the worst candidates and not whole hog but it "should" send a message... If it doesn't then I would have to say they are pretty phucking dense...
Choosing and voting for a presidential candidate is like picking which STD you want to suffer from….
The vote is the only thing we have. When that is gone, that's it.
Have you never heard of "apathy"? Thousands don't vote all across the nation. Has it made a difference?
Try millions.... Has it made a difference because of the ones who "DO" go and vote religiously??? Sure doesn't look like it to me, we're one or two presidents away from the spinning abyss of the toilet.. And it's because the ones who do vote have never sent them a message like "get better candidates"..... They just keep showing up in the same numbers and keep voting for the same bunch of never will be's and retreads... So what do you think the establishment thinks because of this?? THAT WE "WANT" MORE MODERATES AND RINOs!! which is just exactly the opposite of the truth.... That's the message the voters have sent and the establishment has heard it loud and clear, enjoy the abyss when it comes.... And you better have a good sized stash of Febreeze and vinyl gloves handy!! Because if it looks like a turd and smells like a turd and tastes like a turd it probably is a turd... But they can go ahead and try to pick it up by the clean end and say it's something else, like usual!!
Choosing and voting for a presidential candidate is like picking which STD you want to suffer from….
That makes no sense at all. There is no "they" who is going to pick some magical good candidate if we don't vote.
So what you're saying is that you voters "DON'T" think you can send a message to the establishment, do you?? Then why go vote?? Especially if you know it's for some POS?? What message is that sending other than "Here, come and get me I'm all bent over with my pants around my ankles"!!!
Choosing and voting for a presidential candidate is like picking which STD you want to suffer from….
The message you want has been being sent repeatedly for the last 40 plus years. It is the reason we are where we are. Because good people didn't vote. The establishemtn is never going to pick a good candidate. The good candidate will come from the grass roots. We had one pretty good candidate on the ballot this time. Ron Paul. Did you vote for him? Or do you think he is not good enough? Romney vs Obama is a no brainer.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestYou keep posting the same thing over and over again.
#21. To: CZ82 (#18)
VERY serious question: When will NOT voting actually change anything??? How does that work? Please tell us.
#22. To: Capitalist Eric (#19)
Aww, you're still sore because I exposed you for the money-grubbing whore you really are.
#23. To: Capitalist Eric (#5)
#24. To: CZ82 (#18)
I guess the question is if "nobody" showed up at the booths to vote (say GOP for instance) do you think the GOP would get the hint and start recruiting better candidates???
#25. To: A K A Stone (#24)
Just a second. If you don't even vote in the primaries. How are you say going to get a better candidate?
#26. To: CZ82 (#25)
Now if all of a sudden voting dropped off 90% or so don't you think that would send them a message...
#27. To: CZ82 (#25)
What if everybody started doing that, do you think they would get the hint then??
#28. To: CZ82 (#25)
Now do you get a questionaire before voting time wanting to know your opinion and asking for a campaign contribution??? If so what if you filled it out telling them exactly how you feel about them being a POS and told them to take a hike on a contribution (which is what I do)... What if everybody started doing that, do you think they would get the hint then??
#29. To: A K A Stone (#23)
f it is all the same anyway and wont make any difference. Then why not vote Romney if for no other reason then to hurt Obamas ego. And to send the message that there are one term presidents.
#30. To: Capitalist Eric (#29)
To that, I REFUSE. And so should ALL men with moral courage.
#31. To: SJN (#30)
I disagree, all men with moral courage should be in the arena fighting for their cause.
Sitting out with your so called "moral courage" is anathema to "moral courage".
-Charles Mackay, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds You're just putting the onerous on others to do the dirty work it takes, which is to engage in the fight.
sheeple romney pics on Sodahead
#32. To: Capitalist Eric (#31)
#33. To: Capitalist Eric (#31)
#34. To: A K A Stone (#26)
Less and less people are voting. It doesn't seem to be working.
#35. To: A K A Stone (#27)
Now do you get a questionaire before voting time wanting to know your opinion and asking for a campaign contribution??? If so what if you filled it out telling them exactly how you feel about them being a POS and told them to take a hike on a contribution (which is what I do)... What if everybody started doing that, do you think they would get the hint then??
#36. To: SJN (#28)
You are advocating that the citizen average Joe Shmoe not vote and leave it in the hands of the Corporation lobbyists
#37. To: SJN (#28)
I always fill out their questionairs and give them hell on them. For instance I remember one of the questions was do you want the GOP to stand by the Constitution, I told them I don't want them to stand by it, I want them to adhere to it and follow the rule of law. I know many other people that do the same on those questionaires and they too have quit giving to the GOP and rather give to individual candidates.
#38. To: SJN (#32)
(Edited)
We are no longer law-abiding citizens. We have lost our law-abiding status. There are simply too many laws to abide.
Sorry, not buying your argument in the least.
You are just another apathetic citizen who talks all moral outrage and then does nothing.
You're just putting the onerous on others to do the dirty work it takes, which is to engage in the fight.
#39. To: SJN (#32)
You're just putting the onerous on others to do the dirty work it takes, which is to engage in the fight.
#40. To: SJN (#33)
You're just putting the onerous on others to do the dirty work it takes, which is to engage in the fight.
#41. To: Capitalist Eric (#40)
#42. To: SJN (#41)
Well let me know how your refusal
to vote works to participate in a FRAUD...
#43. To: Capitalist Eric (#29)
The simple answer for me, though, is really simple: voting for "the lesser of two evils" gives tacit *approval* of evil.
#44. To: A K A Stone (#43)
Aren't we all sinners and capable of evil.
So no matter what wouldn't it always be a lesser of evil. Or greater good would be the other way to look at it.
#45. To: Capitalist Eric (#39)
Where are the "candidates" that aren't merely deemed "electable," but have HONOR and INTEGRITY, and stand by their WORD???
#46. To: SJN (#45)
Are you truly so frickin' naive that you think politics is ever going to be an honorable profession and that no man will not be corrupted?
#47. To: Capitalist Eric (#46)
#48. To: CZ82 (#18)
I guess the question is if "nobody" showed up at the booths to vote (
"we must as a species go into a period of shrinkage that we have not experienced since the Dark Ages and the Black Plague" -- lucysmom (A.K.A. minnigold)
#49. To: SJN (#30)
I disagree, all men with moral courage should be in the arena fighting for their cause. Sitting out with your so called "moral courage" is anathema to "moral courage". You're just putting the onerous on others to do the dirty work it takes, which is to engage in the fight.
"we must as a species go into a period of shrinkage that we have not experienced since the Dark Ages and the Black Plague" -- lucysmom (A.K.A. minnigold)
#50. To: jwpegler (#49)
SJN: I disagree, all men with moral courage should be in the arena fighting for their cause. Sitting out with your so called "moral courage" is anathema to "moral courage". You're just putting the onerous on others to do the dirty work it takes, which is to engage in the fight.
The only way we're going to get off this road to Hell is if we jump off. If we, personally, as individuals, refuse to cooperate with evil. How we do that is up to each of us. I can't decide for you, nor you for me. (Unlike congresspeople, who think they can decide for everybody.)
#51. To: Capitalist Eric (#50)
(Edited)
"we must as a species go into a period of shrinkage that we have not experienced since the Dark Ages and the Black Plague" -- lucysmom (A.K.A. minnigold)
#52. To: Capitalist Eric, CZ82, SJN, All (#50)
"we must as a species go into a period of shrinkage that we have not experienced since the Dark Ages and the Black Plague" -- lucysmom (A.K.A. minnigold)
#53. To: jwpegler (#52)
Here is a hypothetical for you:
#54. To: jwpegler (#48)
As long as some people vote, NOT voting won't send any message because the system will keep pointing to the people who do vote as a confirmation of the system.
#55. To: jwpegler (#48)
#56. To: CZ82 (#54)
#57. To: SJN (#56)
Have you never heard of "apathy"? Thousands don't vote all across the nation. Has it made a difference?
#58. To: CZ82 (#57)
Has it made a difference because of the ones who "DO" go and vote religiously??? Sure doesn't look like it to me, we're one or two presidents away from the spinning abyss of the toilet.. And it's because the ones who do vote have never sent them a message like "get better candidates"...
#59. To: A K A Stone (#58)
That makes no sense at all. There is no "they" who is going to pick some magical good candidate if we don't vote.
#60. To: CZ82 (#59)
So what you're saying is that you voters "DON'T" think you can send a message to the establishment, do you??
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