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Title: DHS Posts Survey Prior to Bids on .357 SIG Duty Ammunition
Source:
Infowars
URL Source: http://www.infowars.com/dhs-posts-s ... ds-on-357-sig-duty-ammunition/
Published: Aug 2, 2012
Author: Kurt Nimmo
Post Date: 2012-08-02 17:07:33 by Hondo68
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Keywords: checkpoints TSA VIPR teams, lauded for stopping power, dead in their tracks
Views: 10832
Comments: 14
The Department of Homeland Security and the Transportation Security Administration posted a market survey on the General Services Adminstration website today. “The purpose of this questionnaire is to obtain information on commercial industry capability to satisfy U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Requirements for .357 SIG caliber training ammunition,” the post states. .357 SIG is billed as preferred pistol ammo by law enforcement and is lauded for its “stopping power.” The Virginia State Police report that attacking dogs have been stopped dead in their tracks by a single shot, whereas the former 147 grain 9 mm duty rounds would require multiple shots to incapacitate the animals, according to The Gun Digest Book of Combat Handgunnery. Infowars.com has reported on numerous bids put out by the government for various weapons and millions of rounds of ammunition. In July, we reported on a Department of Homeland Security plan to buy Colt LE901 rifle system. “The 901 is much more than your typical assault rifle,” notes the Prepper Podcast Radio Network website. The weapon will allow “the DHS/FEMA foot soldier to go from an assault rifle to picking off ‘terrorists’ at a distance by only changing the upper receiver.” In June, FedBizOpps.gov listed a “Personal Defense Weapons Solicitation” issued by DHS calling for 5.56x45mm NATO select-fire firearms “suitable for personal defense.” The due date for the solicitation is mid-October of 2012 In April, we reported on the DHS awarding contracts to a munitions company for 450 million rounds of .40 caliber hollow point ammunition. Prior to this, the feds awarded Winchester a five year contract for 200 million rounds of .40 caliber ammunition. “I could understand if the U.S. military was ordering ammunition in this quantity. When you fight wars you can go through ammunition very rapidly,” the American Dream blog commented following the extraordinary purchase. “But the Department of Homeland Security is only supposed to be shooting at people very rarely.” Also in April, Paul Joseph Watson reported on the DHS purchasing bullet resistant guard booths. “The purpose behind the bullet proof booths is unknown, but the DHS has publicly announced that it plans to increase the number of unannounced checkpoints manned by TSA VIPR teams and other federal agents beyond the 9300 that were set up last year alone,” Watson wrote at the time. “It looks like DHS and the feds are gearing up for something big. A growing chorus of urgent voices are warning that the economy will finally implode this year and the result with be social chaos,” we wrote in July.
Poster Comment: Seems like the federal homeboy security's might be thinking about buying .357 SIG barrels for their .40 cal pistols. For those Jokers with body armor. They're a paranoid bunch, and have vivid imaginations. If so, what are they going to do with the 450 million rounds of .40? It's a fun round. The thing I first noticed about it was the muzzle flash, shooting in Death Valley on a bright and sunny day (H&K USP compact).
.357 SIG.
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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 9.
#1. To: hondo68, sneakypete, all (#0)
(Edited)
ALOT of people I know just bought their first .40 cal firearms after hearing about the HUGE ammo buy by the feral gooberment. They apparently think that, 1.) ALOT of .40 cal surplus ammo will be available soon. 2.)This is a good time to add a .40 or two to the rack so we'll be used to the caliber and be ready to use all of that surplus ammo that WILL be coming up. Any feral gooberment new massive move into the .357 Sig cal has to be seen the same light. BUT the good part is that MOST of our new .40's are retrofittable with just a barrel change to use .357 Sig! KEWL! A really good "excuse" to get some new firearms! I wish that the feds would order a few billion rnds of .338 Win. Oh well ...
If they start using the .357 SIG round the price will come down. It never really caught on so there's limited production right now. Should be relatively easy for factories to switch from .40, same size packaging just change the label. Swiss gun manufacturer SIG-Sauer, in cooperation with the American ammunition manufacturer Federal Cartridge the .357 SIG handgun/pistol cartridge in 1994. Sig-Sauer and Federal based the .357 SIG on a .40 S&W case necked down to accept .355-inch bullets and made the .357 SIG brass slightly longer than the .40 S&W parent case. The SIG and Federal created .357 SIG with the intention of duplicating the performance of 125-grain (8.1 g) .357 Magnum loads fired from 4-inch (100 mm) barreled revolvers in a cartridge designed for use in a semi-automatic pistol. The .357 SIG accomplishes this goal with a 125 grain (8.1 g) bullet. Using heavier bullets, however, shows the cartridge’ limitations when compared to the original .357 Magnum. The .357 SIG cartridge produces noticeably more recoil the .40 S&W, but less than a full-power 10 mm Auto loads or .357 Magnum. 357 SIG (third from left) in comparison with other cartridges (from left: 9x19mm Parabellum, 7.62x25mm Tokarev, .357 SIG, 10 mm Auto, .40 S&W, .45 GAP, .50 Action Express) Like the 10 mm Auto, the .357 SIG can be down-loaded to reduce recoil, to the point where recoil is similar to that of a 9x19mm Parabellum. However, since the .357 SIG uses bullets that are generally the same as those used in the 9 mm Parabellum downloading it to this point would defeat the purpose of having the SIG cartridge in the first place, as recoil and ballistics would be identical to the less-powerful 9 mm cartridge. Although the .357 SIG design is based on the .40 S&W case, hand loaders cannot form .40 S&W cases into .357 SIG brass. While the two cases are identical in rim diameter, using the .40 S&W case will result in a case that is approximately 0.020 in (0.508 mm) too short. Unlike most bottlenecked cartridges, the .357 SIG headspaces on the case mouth. Using cartridges that are too short can result in serious malfunctions, possibly leading to serious injury. Furthermore, the SAAMI limit for the .40 cartridge is set at 35,000 PSI, but at 40,000 PSI for the .357 SIG. While some individuals have attempted to form .357 SIG cases from 10 mm Auto cases, this is rather impractical. First of all, the change in primer type (10 mm uses large pistol primers, .357 SIG uses small pistol primers) would require that known recipes be scrapped, and second, the cost of using expensive 10 mm brass for such a purpose would certainly defeat the goal of saving money by reloading. Both unfired and once-fired .357 SIG brass are readily available from several well-known vendors, at a low cost. Choosing the correct bullet type is extremely important when hand loading the .357 SIG cartridge. The short neck of the casing makes the use of standard round-nosed bullets impractical. There is simply not enough flat area for the neck to "grip" the bullet. For this reason, flat point bullets are used instead. Various 9 mm hollow-point bullets can also be successfully used, but due to the wide variety of choice, the chances of success vary from one brand to another. However, this comparatively high velocity can also create the potential for overpenetration. The .357 SIG, much like the .357 Magnum and the similarly necked 7.62x25mm Tokarev, is well-suited for use with bullets that are designed to defeat body armor. Also like the Tokarev, the .357 SIG works well when shooting through barriers. There has been a documented case in Texas where a police officer's .45 round did not penetrate a tractor-trailer's shell, but a .357 SIG round from a backup officer's gun did, killing the suspect inside. The round's ability to penetrate barriers is the main reason for its adoption by law enforcement agencies. The reputation that the .357 SIG round had for losing its crimp (allowing for bullet setback) was partially true when the cartridge was new and ammunition manufacturers were just beginning to produce the round. The crimping problems with the .357 SIG cartridge have since been corrected by major manufacturers. As a result, the round now exhibits nominal setback characteristics, similar to other cartridges. The bottleneck shape of the .357 SIG cartridge makes feeding problems almost non-existent. This is because the bullet is channeled through the larger chamber before being seated entirely as the slide goes into full battery. Flat point bullets are seldom used with other autoloader platforms because of feeding problems; however, such bullets are commonly seen in the .357 SIG chambering and are quite reliable, as are hollow-point bullets. One disadvantage of the .357 SIG is that it fires a .355" bullet at higher velocities than most bullets of that caliber are designed for. Very few bullets have been designed specifically for the .357 SIG, and .357 Magnum bullets that are designed for the same velocity range cannot be used due to their slightly larger diameter. Because of this, there are fewer ammunition choices in .357 SIG than one might expect for a cartridge using .355" bullets. The increased recoil of the .357 SIG tends to wear handguns originally designed to fire the .40 S&W and are later modified for use with the .357 SIG. Firing regularly at pressure levels effectively beyond what the pistol was originally engineered for translates to accelerated wear on the firearm. Most .40 S&W pistols can be converted to .357 SIG by replacing the barrel, and sometimes the recoil spring. Pistols with especially strong recoil springs can accept either cartridge with a barrel change. Magazines will freely interchange between the two cartridges in most pistols, though there are exceptions like the .357 SIG chambered SIG-Sauer P239. The availability of .357 SIG barrel kits have allowed this cartridge to gain in popularity among handgun owners. However, the .357 SIG is loaded to higher pressures than the .40 S&W (a difference of up to 5,000 psi at top loads), and may not be suitable for use in all .40 S&W-chambered pistols. The "Accurate Powder" reloading manuals claims that it is "without a doubt the most ballistically consistent handgun cartridge we have ever worked with." The SIG-Sauer P229 in .357 SIG is currently the standard issue firearm carried by agents of the United States Secret Service and Federal Protective Service, the Bastrop County Texas Sheriff's Office, the North Carolina State Highway Patrol, Virginia State Police, Federal Air Marshals and the IRS Criminal Investigation Division. In most cases, it has replaced 10 mm, .40 S&W and 9 mm loads. In 1995, the Texas Department of Public Safety became the first government agency to implement the .357 SIG. The Tennessee Highway Patrol presently issues the Glock 31 pistol chambered in .357 SIG. The Canadian Forces Special Operations unit Joint Task Force 2 reportedly uses P226's chambered in .357 SIG. Type Pistol Production History Designer SIGARMS/Federal Cartridge Co. Specifications Case type Rimless, bottleneck Bullet diameter .355 in (9.0 mm) Base diameter .424 in (10.8 mm) Case length .865 in (22.0 mm) Bullet weight/type Velocity(MV) Energy(ME)
Which has always been a problem with 9mm Luger rounds. Even hollowpoints don't always expand enough to prevent this problem because a lot of times they get filled up with clothing and don't expand. Meanwhile,this high-velocity freaks will have orgasms over the energy levels,which are pure BullBush,since most of the energy is expended in the air after the bullet has already penetrated the torso and gone flying off downrange. They might be good against body armor if they were sharp-pointed solids,but they aren't. If you want to stop somebody NOW,you use a dead soft REALLY heavy lead bullet with a flat nose at less than 1000 FPS. There is no secret about this. It's been common knowledge since bullets were invented.
#13. To: sneakypete, hondo68 (#9)
The thing that matters is the efficiency of the transfer of force from the projectile to the target. In soft targets like humans, over penetration is a very serious problem. Because it decreases the amount of FORCE transfered to the target. This force is wasted and is a danger in the field since the projectiles keep going THROUGH the targets. That's why the .45 acp is such a GREAT a round compared to the 9mm para. The .45 acp is SLOWER and usually heavier with more projectile mass. The .45 acp also has a higher sectional density because it's larger in diameter. In the end, the slower heavier projectile is better at transferring it's energy to that bag of water we call a human body. Which means more physical damage and shock to the target. If I bounce a full BAR mag of .338 Win "off" of any sort of body armor, the body inside of that armor is still very DEAD because of transferred shock. Depending on the engagement range I believe that 12 ga slugs would be just as effective at close range even if your target is armored. I'm happy to say that I haven't had to try my theory out. Yet. Screw a bunch of hollow points. Hard ball breaks bones. It's ALWAYS about shot placement. ALWAYS.
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#4. To: Mad Dog (#1)
Place of origin Switzerland/United States
Neck diameter .381 in (9.7 mm)
Shoulder diameter .424 in (10.8 mm)
Rim diameter .424 in (10.8 mm)
Rim thickness .055 in (1.4 mm)
Overall length 1.14 in (29 mm)
Primer type Small pistol
115 gr (7.5 g) JHP 1,564 ft/s (477 m/s) 624 ft·lbf (846 J)
124 gr (8.0 g) JHP 1,329 ft/s (405 m/s) 486 ft·lbf (659 J)
125 gr (8.1 g) JHP 1,299 ft/s (396 m/s) 468 ft·lbf (635 J)
147 gr (9.5 g) JHP 1,186 ft/s (361 m/s) 459 ft·lbf (622 J)
150 gr (9.7 g) JHP 1,130 ft/s (340 m/s) 425 ft·lbf (576 J)
#9. To: hondo68 (#4)
However, this comparatively high velocity can also create the potential for overpenetration.
Replies to Comment # 9. If you want to stop somebody NOW,you use a dead soft REALLY heavy lead bullet with a flat nose at less than 1000 FPS. There is no secret about this. It's been common knowledge since bullets were invented.
End Trace Mode for Comment # 9.
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