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Title: Richard Dawkins: "I can't be sure God does not exist" (most famous atheist in the world blinks)
Source: The Telegraph
URL Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/rel ... e-sure-God-does-not-exist.html
Published: Jul 1, 2012
Author: John Bingham
Post Date: 2012-07-01 12:30:04 by Liberator
Keywords: atheist, agnostic, God
Views: 18590
Comments: 45

He is regarded as the most famous atheist in the world but last night Professor Richard Dawkins admitted he could not be sure that God does not exist.

He told the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, that he preferred to call himself an agnostic rather than an atheist.

The two men were taking part in a public “dialogue” at Oxford University at the end of a week which has seen bitter debate about the role of religion in public life in Britain.

Last week Baroness Warsi, the Tory party chairman, warned of a tide of “militant secularism” challenging the religious foundations of British society.

The discussion, in Sir Christopher Wren’s Sheldonian Theatre, attracted attention from around the world.

As well as being relayed to two other theatres, it was streamed live on the internet and promoted fierce debate on the Twitter social network.

For an hour and 20 minutes the two men politely discussed "The nature of human beings and the question of their ultimate origin" touching on the meaning of consciousness, the evolution of human language – and Dr Williams’s beard.

For much of the discussion the Archbishop sat quietly listening to Prof Dawkins’s explanations of human evolution.

At one point he told the professor that he was “inspired” by “elegance” of the professor’s explanation for the origins of life – and agreed with much of it.

Prof Dawkins told him: “What I can’t understand is why you can’t see the extraordinary beauty of the idea that life started from nothing – that is such a staggering, elegant, beautiful thing, why would you want to clutter it up with something so messy as a God?”

Dr Williams replied that he “entirely agreed” with the “beauty” of Prof Dawkins’s argument but added: “I’m not talking about God as an extra who you shoehorn on to that.”

There was surprise when Prof Dawkins acknowledged that he was less than 100 per cent certain of his conviction that there is no creator.

The philosopher Sir Anthony Kenny, who chaired the discussion, interjected: “Why don’t you call yourself an agnostic?” Prof Dawkins answered that he did.

An incredulous Sir Anthony replied: “You are described as the world’s most famous atheist.”

Prof Dawkins said that he was “6.9 out of seven” sure of his beliefs.

“I think the probability of a supernatural creator existing is very very low,” he added.

He also said that he believed it was highly likely that there was life on other planets.

At one point he discussion strayed onto the theoretical question of whether a traditional cut throat razor could be described as a more complicated thing than an electric shaver.

There was laughter as the Archbishop said he would attempt an answer before adding: “Not that I know much about razors.”

During a wide-ranging discussion the Archbishop also said that he believed that human beings had evolved from non-human ancestors but were nevertheless “in the image of God”.

He also said that the explanation for the creation of the world in the Book of Genesis could not be taken literally.

“The writers of the Bible, inspired as I believe they were, they were nonetheless not inspired to do 21st Century physics,” he said.

When Prof Dawkins suggested that he believed the Pope took a rather more literal interpretation of the origins of humans, the Archbishop joked: “I will ask him some time.”

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 26.

#1. To: All (#0) (Edited)

Amidst the observation that Prof. Dawkins' was “inspired” by “elegance” of the professor’s explanation for the origins of life, and agreed with much of it, we have THIS inanity by Dawkins:

“What I can’t understand is why you can’t see the extraordinary beauty of the idea that life started from nothing – that is such a staggering, elegant, beautiful thing, why would you want to clutter it up with something so messy as a God?”

No, we CAN'T see it, Professor Dummy. What is more staggering than a supposed respected, top "intellectual" of our time - Richard Dawkins....

1) Concluding Life was created out of nothing

2) Opining that a God or "Creator" "cutters" and "messes up" his Fantasy of "something-made-out-of-nothing". (Of course believing otherwise would also mean there's a Creator whose judgment looms)

3) Expecting the rest of us to intellectually "understand" and accept the Impossible: "Something-created-out-of-nothing" - especially a mind and consciousness - the NON-physical

Does.

NOT.

Compute.

Not that the inanity was all Dawkins...

The "Man of the Cloth" - Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, also said that the explanation for the creation of the world in the Book of Genesis could not be taken literally. HIS own Fairy Tale belief was that he believed that human beings had evolved from non-human ancestors (aka Extra-Terrestrials), but were nevertheless “in the image of God”.

Why then bother believing ANY of the Bible, Archbishop? I mean after all - Jesus Christ HIMSELF used to quote the Old Testament. Are you calling HIM a Liar?

This public “dialogue” at Oxford - one of the main symbolic "intellectual" centers of the world - was an exercise in the blind leading the blind-er.

Liberator  posted on  2012-07-01   12:40:46 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Liberator (#1)

Why then bother believing ANY of the Bible, Archbishop? I mean after all - Jesus Christ HIMSELF used to quote the Old Testament. Are you calling HIM a Liar?

Apparently Rowan Williams doesn't believe all the Bible.....his stance on homosexuals serving as ministers certainly isn't biblically based.

rowdee  posted on  2012-07-01   13:06:51 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: rowdee, TooConservative, Redleghunter (#4) (Edited)

Apparently Rowan Williams doesn't believe all the Bible.....his stance on homosexuals serving as ministers certainly isn't biblically based.

Aaaah....

So we have a shill posing as the "Christian" representation? One might ask whys this kind of "Christian" cites the Bible for ANY support of their business...er...I mean religion (cough, hack).

Btw, those collars sure are sooo convincing sometimes.

;-)

Liberator  posted on  2012-07-01   13:13:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Liberator, GarySpFc, rowdee (#6)

Apparently Rowan Williams doesn't believe all the Bible.....his stance on homosexuals serving as ministers certainly isn't biblically based. Aaaah....

So we have a shill posing as the "Christian" representation? One might ask whys this kind of "Christian" cites the Bible for ANY support of their business...er...I mean religion (cough, hack).

Btw, those collars sure are sooo convincing sometimes.

;-)

Yeah, the atheists seem to find their "credible" opposition from the ranks of liberal "theologians."

This makes their job a lot easier.

Just wanted you to know TC no longer posts here. He confirmed this to me last week on LP. If the disturbing thread titles and language continues, I might have to go that way as well. LF is linked to Google, which archives stuff for their masters. If I get black listed for discussing and proclaiming the Word, so be it. But do not want to be dragged down as associated with potty talk, which is getting a bit heated here as of late.

redleghunter  posted on  2012-07-03   14:51:51 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: redleghunter, TooConservative, A K A Stone (#7)

Yeah, the atheists seem to find their "credible" opposition from the ranks of liberal "theologians."

This makes their job a lot easier.

Yup. Kinda like helping "catapulting the propaganda" (to use Dubya's words). The Devil is pleased with this kind of symposium where "our" side is represented by an un-Bible believing satanic agent of the Vatican. BIG surprise, right?

Just wanted you to know TC no longer posts here.

He confirmed this to me last week on LP. If the disturbing thread titles and language continues, I might have to go that way as well. LF is linked to Google, which archives stuff for their masters. If I get black listed for discussing and proclaiming the Word, so be it. But do not want to be dragged down as associated with potty talk, which is getting a bit heated here as of late.

I've noticed and thoroughly understand.

A K A Stone, aka a "Christian" doesn't seen to understand these kind of things about titles.

FWIW, Liberty Post frankly isn't much better at times, while vulgar "potty talk" and poisoning of that well remains business as usual there primarily because of two posters.

To tell you the truth, I've just about had it. Thank you for your fellowship and doing what you do. It is much appreciated.

Liberator  posted on  2012-07-03   15:33:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Liberator, redleghunter, TooConservative, A K A Stone, Gary SF (#8) (Edited)

I would hate to see any of you leave--I just got here. But I full well see and understand what you are saying. I'm trying to handle it as Christians are told to do. But, its entirely possible more than y'all could leave, too.

I'm very tired of the name calling, the labeling, the excessive use of garbage language as well as the potty mouth. Of course, I'm sick of politics to boot, and now a legal system that is creating taxes out of penalties, or is it penalties out of taxes! What is down should be up and what is up should be down. North is East and West is South. Yews is No. Bad is good. Sad is gay. Straight is crooked.

Please give it a bit longer...

rowdee  posted on  2012-07-03   17:39:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: rowdee (#9)

Isn't this phun?

buckeroo  posted on  2012-07-03   20:19:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: buckeroo (#12)

I think it can be fun, interesting, and educational, and probably a goodly number of other things. We can find people we can draw on their experiences from, or their education or ocupational backgrounds, etc.

I remember the early days at Free Republic when articles were found and dissected from one end to the other......that was great--we could learn how to read between the lines, detect spin, and the like.

I remember lots of vanity threads that were really meat and potato threads-- talks about liberty, justice, history, and the like. Back then, it even meant something to Jim Rob besides a gravy train. He could write a good commentary. Names like Jeff Head, OKW, Dawg, Don (was it Miller from northern Idaho), Askel5, And there was a fiesty gal--her name is on te tip of my tongue and I can't remember it at the moment. Aha! Mercuria!!!! Remember her, buck?

When i first got on the internet in '98, I would just sit and read all these people would write. I couldn't believe I had found people that felt the way I did about my country.

And what was neat--they didn't resort to gutter talk or potty mouths, they weren't into name calling or labeling as is done nowadays.

Thats what I consider fun.

I don't care who can scream 'dung' (shit to those in Rio Vista) the loudest from the top of the Eiffel Tower. That is just a childish stunt. Meant to draw attention. Meant to 'prove' someone's manhood or womanhood, I suppose.

I speak from having been on that side of the bar. My 3-year hiatus hopefully showed me I don't need that to make a point. It also has shown me I don't need that in my life.

rowdee  posted on  2012-07-04   0:39:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: rowdee (#15)

I think it can be fun, interesting, and educational, and probably a goodly number of other things. We can find people we can draw on their experiences from, or their education or ocupational backgrounds, etc.

This is exactly the attitude that makes you an important poster. Most of those have always known your down-to-earth posts that are not just well-researched from a personal perspective but also from a politically conservative perspective but well intended, as well. You have a speakers voice, just like the one I'm responding towards.

I remember the early days at Free Republic when articles were found and dissected from one end to the other......that was great--we could learn how to read between the lines, detect spin, and the like.

There is something about a person's post (no matter who that person may be) that permits a glimpse of the "dark-side." Most people are repulsed or don't care and quickly move towards other posts worthy of their time.

Then again, I have seen some fairely awesome posts from the most despicable cretins on the Internet. What is the most problematic issue for most folks is how to deal with a post that maybe trickled from a single-celled amoeba or multidimensional wizard that actually says something valuable. It is difficult to judge for newbies and our best. We are all frail towards methods of posting not typically accurately applied to normalcy.

I remember lots of vanity threads that were really meat and potato threads-- talks about liberty, justice, history, and the like. Back then, it even meant something to Jim Rob besides a gravy train. He could write a good commentary. Names like Jeff Head, OKW, Dawg, Don (was it Miller from northern Idaho), Askel5, And there was a fiesty gal--her name is on te tip of my tongue and I can't remember it at the moment. Aha! Mercuria!!!! Remember her, buck?

Of course; it is hard to believe that Mercuria and I went shooting with some major gun clubs. Some of the folks that you bring up are still posting all over the Internet.

When i first got on the internet in '98, I would just sit and read all these people would write. I couldn't believe I had found people that felt the way I did about my country.

For many, they catch a ray of light and watch. I still perform the same way depending on timing and posters and Internet channels.

And what was neat--they didn't resort to gutter talk or potty mouths, they weren't into name calling or labeling as is done nowadays.

Some of the emails have been otherwise. I blow the stuff off, too

Thats what I consider fun.

Now, we are talking BIG_TIME!

I don't care who can scream 'dung' (shit to those in Rio Vista) the loudest from the top of the Eiffel Tower. That is just a childish stunt. Meant to draw attention. Meant to 'prove' someone's manhood or womanhood, I suppose.

I do. I despise posters that condemn others with a single idea and run from thread to thread in order to PROVE a point that is NOT applicable to new ideas. Most posters are not, let me repeat ... single issue posters. We have an idea that is important to discuss is all.

I speak from having been on that side of the bar. My 3-year hiatus hopefully showed me I don't need that to make a point. It also has shown me I don't need that in my life.

Experience, you know what it means. There are many others akin to you, too. Some just don't let the cat out of the bag, either.

Best regards,
buckeroo

buckeroo  posted on  2012-07-06   21:58:38 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 26.

#27. To: buckeroo (#26)

"Intelligent people talk about ideas. Average people talk about things. Small people talk about other people."

SJN  posted on  2012-07-06 22:55:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 26.

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