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Title: Three Articles that help explain Israel
Source:
WELS (Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod)
URL Source: http://www.wels.net/news-events/for ... december-2008/invisible-church
Published: Jun 24, 2012
Author: various - Noted at end of each article.
Post Date: 2012-06-24 10:03:21 by SJN
Keywords: None
Views: 260697
Comments: 482
The Invisible Church As the Bible describes the church, it becomes clear that the church is both what we see and what we cannot see. Church. The word paints a picture. You see the building in which you worship. It may be a small, white-frame building set on a hill in the quiet countryside. Or it may be a large, stone structure occupying a street corner in a busy city. It’s not unusual for us to think of a building when we think of church. Worship is an important part of our lives, and that worship takes place in a building we love, whether it is fancy or plain. But that is not the way the word church is used in the Bible. In Scripture, church most often refers to people and not to buildings. The church is invisible In the New Testament the word ecclesia is often translated as church. Ecclesia refers to a group of people who have been called together. It is an assembly. Yet even that definition does not fully explain what the church is. As the Bible describes the church, it becomes clear that the church is both what we see and what we cannot see. The church is both visible and invisible. Why would we call a church invisible? You can see a building. You can see the people who gather in that building. Yet we do speak of the church as invisible in the Apostles’ Creed when we confess “I believe in the holy Christian church, the communion of saints.” Sometimes people mistakenly use the term saint to refer to a person who does an abundance of good deeds, someone who helps others. But the Bible uses the term to describe simply a believer. We even distinguish between believers who have been called home to heaven and those who still battle in this world. We speak of saints triumphant and saints militant. The apostle Peter describes these believers as “a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God” (1 Peter 2:9). Together all believers form the holy Christian church, a “spiritual house” made up of living stones chosen by God. When the Holy Spirit works faith in our hearts, we become part of this structure. The Lord Jesus can see the faith in our hearts. We, however, can only see the fruits of faith and not the faith itself. Because we cannot see faith, the church is invisible to our eyes. The prophet Elijah did not recognize that there were still seven thousand believers in Israel (1 Kings 19:8-18). He thought that he was the only believer left. Likewise, we cannot always tell whether a person is a believer or an unbeliever. As the Bible describes the church, it becomes clear that the church is both what we see and what we cannot see. Although the church may be invisible to us, the Lord sees his church clearly. “The Lord knows those who are his” (2 Timothy 2:19). At the same time each person knows what is in his or her heart. Trusting in the promises the Lord gives us, we know that we belong to that communion of saints, the church of God. Characteristics of the invisible church This invisible gathering of all believers is not limited by geography. The apostle John reminds us that believers come from different places and “from every nation, tribe, people and language” (Revelation 7:9). In addition, the church is not limited by time. All believers who have lived, are now living, and will live until Jesus returns at the end of time—all these believers are part of this church. The church, the body of all believers, is invisible, and it is also universal. Once again we confess this fact in the Third Article of the Apostles’ Creed. “I believe in the holy Christian church.” The first people who used this confession of faith said, “I believe in the holy catholic church.” The word catholic originally had no denominational connotation. It simply meant universal. When catholic became associated with a particular organization, the word Christian was substituted to prevent confusion. In the Apostles’ Creed we confess that we believe that the Lord gathers together everyone whose faith is in Jesus Christ as the Savior. People believe in many things. We say that we believe in our team, in our country, and in people who are dear to us. Likewise, many people believe in some religious figure other than Christ. God’s invisible church gathers together only those people who confess Jesus as their Savior. We distinguish ourselves from the followers of Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, and every other religion. We confess that Jesus Christ is true man and true God. We believe that Christ is sinless and perfect and that he is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. As the Bible describes the church, it becomes clear that the church is both what we see and what we cannot see. In a world that suggests that it does not matter what you believe as long as you believe, it becomes important to remember that the invisible church gathers together all believers in Christ. Without faith in Jesus we cannot be saved. Without Jesus we have no part in the communion of saints, the gathering of all believers. Jesus makes that clear when he says, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6). People die. Church buildings may fall apart. Congregations may disband. But the invisible church continues. The Lord has promised that there will always be true believers who are kept faithful by the power of God. “My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand” (John 10:27,28). What a comfort it is to know that the Holy Spirit, who calls us to faith, also preserves us in that faith through the gospel in Word and sacraments! It is easy to become attached to a congregation. It is in that fellowship that we listen to the good news of Jesus proclaimed. There we hear that our sins are forgiven. In our congregation we draw close to Jesus as we receive the sacrament of his body and blood. Likewise the building in which a congregation worships may be a special place. It may be the same structure in which we were baptized, confirmed, and married. It reminds us of all the blessings God has showered upon us. But we are part of something that is even more valuable, the holy Christian church. Our triune God has brought us together with people we may never see or know on this side of eternity. Through faith the Lord has made us a part of the congregation of all believers. Right now we are not able to see this church in its entirety. Yet what is invisible to our eyes now will be seen when the Lord returns in glory. What a joy it will be to see all believers from every part of the world and from all times! The day will come when we will gather together and praise the God of grace who gives us membership in his family, the invisible church. That church is not really invisible. It is only invisible to us. God sees it clearly. James Korthals, a professor at Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary, Mequon, Wisconsin, is a member at David’s Star, Jackson. Peter's Picture of the Church 1 Peter 2:4-10 The word "temple" in our modern society usually describes a large, beautiful building which is used for the worship of some god. The use of such temples goes back thousands of years. Peter used it to paint a beautiful word picture of Jesus and his church in 2:4-8. Made up of living stones Jesus is pictured in many ways in John's gospel. Peter adds his own picture here, when he writes, "The Lord Jesus is the living stone" (v. 4). In verse 6 he gives the original source for this statement (Isaiah 28:16), where God said, "Look! I'm laying a stone in Zion [another name for Israel], a very special cornerstone of great value, and the person who believes in him will never be disappointed." In the ancient world the cornerstone was more than a stone on which was carved the date of construction. The cornerstone determined the length, the width, and the height of the building, so that the whole building depended on that cornerstone. That is the picture Peter uses to describe the church in verse 5a, where he says, "And since you are living stones, as you come to him you are built up into a spiritual temple," of which Jesus is the cornerstone. The church is built on Jesus, and around Jesus, the cornerstone. And it is made up of people who are like Jesus--perfectly holy beings in God's sight. That is the way God sees every person who truly believes in Jesus as his or her Savior, because our God-given faith makes us new creatures who are perfectly holy in God's sight, and every such person "will never be disappointed" on Judgment Day. Then Peter explains in verse 7, "This means that he's of great value to you people who believe in him, but for those who don't believe in him, 'the stone which the builders [the Jewish nation as a whole] decided was no good, is the very one which has become the cornerstone'; and 'the stone which will make people stumble, and the rock which will make them fall.' "How clear Peter makes it that Jesus is the difference between eternal life and eternal damnation. We are now a holy group of priests Next Peter uses a new metaphor in verse 5 when he says that the believers who come to Jesus as living stones "are built up into a spiritual temple, to be a holy group of priests, who offer up spiritual sacrifices which God is happy to receive." He continues in verses 9,10, "There was a time when you were no people at all, but now you are God's people. You who never knew God's mercy have now received his mercy." Praise the Lord! Peter is reminding us that there was a time when we were all outsiders, so far as God is concerned, unbelievers who had never heard of the triune God. But now that we have heard the good news and have come to believe it, we are God's people, while the Jews, as a nation, have rejected their Messiah and are outsiders. Now you must take note of the fact that every believer is a priest whose principal occupation it is to offer spiritual sacrifices to our triune God each day of our lives. Yes, from morning to evening we offer our God our thanks and praises for the undeserved love he has shown us by sending first his Son to atone for all our sins, and then his Holy Spirit who has brought us to believe the good news that all our sins are forgiven by Jesus' death on the cross, so that we are now God's children who are perfectly holy in God's sight. Our task as priests is to also bring him our other sacrifices. First there are our time and our talents which we spend carrying out the different tasks we can do as members of our congregations. In some cases we may give our Lord all of our time and talents to serve as pastors, teachers, missionaries, or church office workers. All of us, whether we are active workers or not, can offer the Lord a portion of our financial resources, which represent the value of our time spent in some gainful occupation. And of course the temple in which we serve is known to us as the church, the whole body of believers. The picture of the church that Peter gives us here is perhaps the most complete picture to be found anywhere in the Bible. Julian Anderson is a retired pastor and seminary professor living in Naples, Florida. Samuel: A Judge in Israel Concentrating on the Lord is daunting when dangers clamor for attention. Think back 300 years before Samuel. Following the death of those who carved a Jewish homeland out of Canaan, “another generation grew up, who knew neither the Lord nor what he had done for Israel” (Judges 2:10). To awaken his spiritually-anesthetized people, God enlisted neighboring nations to harass, enslave, and terrorize Israel. Slapped to consciousness, God’s people recognized their sin, pleaded for forgiveness, and prayed for relief. God then raised up leaders—judges—who with the Lord’s power pushed back the oppressors. Moral and spiritual health flourished. But “when the judge died, the people returned to ways even more corrupt than those of their fathers . . .” (Judges 2:19). Repenting to God This cycle of godlessness, oppression, repentance, freedom, upright living, and a return to godlessness repeated itself until Samuel. Remember Eli and his sons? 1 Samuel 7 brings us to a repentance and freedom section of that cycle and to Samuel as Israel’s final judge. The Ark of the Covenant remained in the border town of Kiriath-Jearim for 20 years after the Philistines captured it and then returned it to stem a Lord-induced plague. During those two decades “all the people of Israel mourned and sought after the Lord” (7:2). To confirm that renaissance of faith, Samuel summoned his countrymen to a spiritually essential, but politically provocative, act—national purification and rededication. Israel was not a free country. Philistine overlords kept close watch. When their surveillance noticed huge numbers of Israelites staging at Mizpah (literally, “look out point”), their early-warning alarms wailed. Mizpah was a military gem mounted in hills about eight miles north of Jerusalem. Soon the sound of Philistine marching boots, the clank of armor, and the bellow of war trumpets echoed off Mizpah. “When the Israelites heard of it, they were afraid . . .” (7:7). No doubt. Concentrating on the Lord is daunting when dangers (dare we add personal problems or financial difficulties) clamor for attention. Victory through God Samuel, however, urged Israel to fasten on God. “Do not stop crying out to the Lord our God for us, that he may rescue us” (7:8). Strength was not in their military might, but in the Lord’s omnipotence. God confirmed that. With Israeli knees bent in prayer and without an Israeli sword unsheathed, God’s deafening thunder routed the Philistine army. Panicked, the troops stumbled south toward safety. Their backs made easy targets. The Philistine losses that day did not completely free Israel. We await Saul and David to accomplish that. Israel, however, did enjoy a season of peace with Philistia and, as a fringe benefit, with the Amorites. Concentrating on the Lord is daunting when dangers clamor for attention. To mark the victory, Samuel set up a monument called Ebenezer (“stone of help”). Ebenezer stones (church cornerstones, wedding anniversaries, birthdays) remind us, “Thus far has the Lord helped us.” But our most conclusive proof that there’s always an upside in our downside world is Jesus, “the stone the builders rejected [that] has become the capstone” (1 Peter 2:7). James A. Aderman is pastor at Fairview, Milwaukee.
(The Following article should help to illuminate why the Nation of Israel and it's people have seen thousands of years of turmoil).
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#291. To: redleghunter, Biff Tannen, A K A Stone, SJN (#283)
Apropos clip...And frankly, a BOZO by that mental midget must mean he's worn out by your Chick Tracts, lol. Btw, the padding in either cell had better be heavy-duty rubber. I actually feel sorry for Biffy. He's stands on ZERO principle....except subversion, chaos, and anarchy. Yeah - sorta like Jimmy Mac.
More horseshit. The commies and the churches only hate each other because they are competitors in the same business. Pete also fails to acknowledge that the American Founding Fathers by and large were adherents of the "Cult" of Christianity. A easy lie to sell because most people today don't realize it was illegal to NOT believe in God when those men were born and grew up,and impossible to get elected or even run a business if it became known publicly they were non- believers. Kinda like people like you and your brothers in the Taliban want people to live today.
"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter.
You should. Surely he's going to rape you if you don't punish me. Maybe he will even impregnate you when he does it? After all,if you believe in virgin birth and Jesus being the Son of God, he has a history of doing stuff like that.
"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter.
You would know because you have been doing it your whole life.
"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter.
This week is the 50th Anniversary of the court decisions forbidding prayer and Bible study in public schools. So you can't say the Christians are trying to indoctrinate the kids in public forums, they can't it is illegal. However, given the homosexual lobby is not considered a religion (it should be) they can get local permission from school boards to "evangelize" their position thus cutting off the whole tolerance or acceptance route to the national debate. That is what good Christian folk are fighting for. Some form of neutrality. If gays can spread their false gospel to the masses unopposed hiding behind the cloak of "intolerance" and "bigotry" of others, The Gospel of Jesus Christ should be getting equal time. And if Christians do not get equal time, then we should be all demanding neutrality, which brings us back to the REAL meaning of tolerance. Amen, brutha... THE truth of the matter repeated: "This week is the 50th Anniversary of the court decisions forbidding prayer and Bible study in public schools. So you can't say the Christians are trying to indoctrinate the kids in public forums, they can't it is illegal." So based on the above, you can keep calling us intolerant bigots but that has little meaning and is just a chant. If you were tolerant in the real sense of the word, you could call the Christian response to the homosexual agenda as reactionary. And Christians would be correct and tolerant in calling the radical homosexual agenda an insurgency. BULLSEYE (but don't expect a sane rebuttal from Biffy or ANY of his ilk (like sneakypete). They just REFUSE to see the beyond their own bigoted, anti-Christian PC beer-goggles).
No,that's just one of your favorite fantasies,and no doubt one of your cult leaders favorite fund-raising tools.
"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter.
Fundie Catholics and Muslims,for instance. You know damn well who you refer to in this case. And it AIN'T either "Fundie Catholics and Muslims". It's Protestants.
To him,that's the same thing.
"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter.
I'll save you a seat.
"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter.
That's true. I'm sure a bag of hammers are willing to testify on your behalf.
And you are trying to claim they were all thumpers? None were atheists or agnostics? All wanted religious rule in place of the Constitution?
"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter.
BTW,the 11th was a Reserve unit. They may have been VN-era vets,but none of went to VN unless they went active duty.
"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter.
Narrow it down to a couple of sentences, why don't you. I will take that as you don't care to read posts other than your own. Maybe I need to post a few more comics instead.
As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)
But....but...but,that would require THINKING instead of "FEELING". Something else the religious right have in common with their leftist brothers. It's all about "feelings" and emotion,not facts. All religions are based on faith because facts just don't support their beliefs. The smarter ones know this at their core,which is why they get so defensive and go into attack mode when you question their beliefs.
"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter.
None were atheists or agnostics? All wanted religious rule in place of the Constitution? That was not the original point. None talked poorly of Armed Services no matter their experience. None talked poorly of our Christian Heritage in the USA. And no one is advocating a "religious rule" in place of the Constitution. If you knew your American history well, you would know what the Founders said about the Bible and Christianity.
As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)
Yes it was a Reserve unit and the Vietnam Vets served on active duty in different units during the Vietnam war. I was in 1/11th in the late 80s.
As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)
You know damn well who you refer to in this case. And it AIN'T either "Fundie Catholics and Muslims". It's Protestants. Afraid to answer the question?
"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter.
So thorough writing is considered feeling. That is quite humorous. So if I wrote two sentences, and used insults and profanity that would be genius right? Then you and Biff are just brimming with genius:)/s Just admit neither of you have an intelligent response to my original post.
As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)
The original point was your claim that I must not be a SF VN Vet because you know a lot of VN SF vets and none were non-believers. None talked poorly of Armed Services no matter their experience. Where did THAT come from? None talked poorly of our Christian Heritage in the USA. What about now? And what about our NON-Christian heritages? And no one is advocating a "religious rule" in place of the Constitution. Not only a lie,a DAMN LIE! You and every other thumper on this board is ranting and raving about creating laws that treat one group of citizens as being of an inferior class that shouldn't have the same rights as other citizens. THAT is un-Constitutional,and the government has already done enough of this as it is without screaming for more. If you knew your American history well, you would know what the Founders said about the Bible and Christianity. Yeah,they made damn sure religion was NOT a part of government. Freedom of Religion is also Freedom FROM Religion when it comes to laws and government. I have no doubt you have been taught and told different your whole life by your cult leader who was and is pissed he and his organization don't have more political power and can't run the country to suit themselves,but that doesn't mean they weren't lying to you. They earn their living by lying. It's what they do.
"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter.
I have the odd and unpopular old-fashioned opinion that GOVERNMENT MUST treat all citizens the same when it comes to recognizing freedoms and applying laws. ALL citizens. Even citizens I don't like. Like I said, you're an enigma...And frankly I agree with much of your opinion regarding "freedoms" and "rights" Unfortunately you allow yourself to go off the rails on the definition of tolerance in the context of Queers and Christians respectively. But not only that, you've lied and claimed "fundies" aka Christians are "changing" government when it is the Queers and their abettors who are *militantly demanding* changing IT along along with the status quo. US "law" has enforced a man-woman definition of marriage since the beginning; MANKIND and his civilization has enforced the very SAME universal societal/cultural union as being between a MAN and a WOMAN. Any such claim to force the rest of America and Civilization to accept "gay marriage" as *law* via YOUR fascism is just as fallacious "right" as enforcing polygamy, inter-family marriage, and inter-species marriage. Except there is actual precedence of the former two. But not "gay marriage" or "marriage" between Fido and his master. I realize this isn't a popular position in the eyes of most members of the Dimpublic Party,but it's not my fault they/you are fascists who believe the government must control people,their acts,and their opinions. You're projecting, yet can't see it. Amazing. If this makes me evil,I can live with it. It's inadvertently "evil" on your part; You believe you are a gay rights MLK. The worst of it is a blindness to your own hypocrisy, lies, and stupidity.
Well,neither of us has to habitually fill responses with quotes from other people in order to pretend we are thinking.
"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter.
Intellectually, Biffy couldn't "plow through" a pile of feathers.
Would LARGE pictures and a few crayons help you any?
THAT is un-Constitutional,and the government has already done enough of this as it is without screaming for more. Interesting you mention this. Who is getting government to do what? Who is passing laws in 2012 to change traditional marriage to something else? If the gays would not legislate their agenda, then all would be well. But they are and Americans are reacting to their demands. Go get a lawyer and draw up a contract with your same sex partner, don't make it the law of the land. This has nothing to do with tolerance and equality. It is all about pushing their form of religion on each state and the entire nation. That is the tyranny, not those who hold to the same beliefs and traditions of the founding fathers. You must have missed the reactionary vs. insurgent post a few back because it was more than two lines.
As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)
LOL, you really do not pay attention. I pasted my own words from another thread. The words and argument are mine. Take a look at them if you really care to debate.
As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)
He did not like the cartoons and won't read more than two lines. He must be one of the Congressmen who voted for Odingacare before even reading it.
As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)
The battle cry of every dictator that has ever lived. What part of "Society and civilization has 'imposed'" did you miss? YOU and others like you want YOUR beliefs and lifestyle recognized as dominant and normal,when it fact it is not dominant,and is only normal for YOU. I am positive that members of other religious cults see your lifestyle and beliefs as being against the wishes of God. I can see with your circular il-logic and your failure to concede a historically universal codes of ethics and norms that this conversation is going no where fast. Thanks for playing, Pete. Good luck to you and yu-klown and Fire Island on pulling the SAME kind of rhetorical bullsh*t wagon train. I'm not wasting my time with you as you continue creating your own insane reality.
ROFL...@ BOTH observational jokes. Biffy "wades" through TWO sentences. Catch that?? LMAO!
Yeah,people have rights as long as they agree with your opinions,right? It's when they disagree with you that they suddenly don't have any rights anymore. But not only that, you've lied and claimed "fundies" aka Christians are "changing" government when it is the Queers and their abettors who are *militantly demanding* changing IT along along with the status quo. ANOTHER lie by YOU. The FACTS are fundies like you ARE trying to change the laws to obtain a government based on fundie religious beliefs,just like the enviro and animal loons want to change law to enforce THEIR beliefs. US "law" has enforced a man-woman definition of marriage since the beginning So what? Does that mean it was right? There is no definition of marriage at all in the US Constitution,but there IS mentions of all citizens having the same rights. Slavery was an accepted part of our culture from the beginning,too,but eventually it was recognized that it was un-Constitutional to enslave other humans,so we no longer have slaves in this country. Other than Dim voters,that is. MANKIND and his civilization has enforced the very SAME universal societal/cultural union as being between a MAN and a WOMAN More nonsense. Practically every culture since the dawn of mankind has recognized homosexual couples,just as they have recognized unmarried heterosexual couples. It wasn't common and it wasn't spoken about much,but everybody knew about it. I don't know about the East,but in the west it wasn't a big deal until the Catholic Church decided it was evil.
"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter.
Nobody. Traditional marriage will always be a marriage between a male and a female. Where have you heard any different? Go get a lawyer and draw up a contract with your same sex partner, don't make it the law of the land. You think homosexual marriage is going to become required by law? As far as I know,some of them only want to marry each other,not you. This has nothing to do with tolerance and equality. Obviously. It has to do with your desire to get the government to enforce your religious viewpoints on others. It is all about pushing their form of religion on each state and the entire nation. That's EXACTLY what you are doing. It's good to see you finally admit it. Or do you think homosexuality is some form of religion?
"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter.
You mean Christian "fundies" = Taliban.... Have you ANY idea how ignorant and dopey this makes you look?? Pete: "A easy lie to sell..." You know - the one thing I and fellow posters always respected about you was your (past) integrity, credibility, and effort to remain as truthful as possible. You've managed to blow all three. Opposing all that Christianity stands for is one thing; But it is irrefutable that the Founders of this America by and large were INDEED Christians - many devout. It is THE only reason this nation EVER became a nation and became great. The ONLY reason the nation is now an EPIC FAIL is exactly because Christian ethics and principles were shoved out the door - beginning in the early 1960s. As folks like you keep on attacking and chipping away at the Judeo-Christian based foundation, we can count on NO "America" is the near future. Congrats on "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED".
It's when they disagree with you that they suddenly don't have any rights anymore. More hyperbole. You're pathetic.
He won't. It's a LOSE-LOSE for him. This is why you see nothing but circular reasoning, irrationality, lies, Alinsky-ist debating techniques, and TOTAL avoidance of YOUR case & points. I guess Biffy's not the only one who labors through two sentences.
It is obvious you did not read my post on the difference between tolerance and acceptance. If you read it, you would not be asking and asserting the same questions. And yes, I DO consider the homosexual lobby as a religion. They are taking a private practice and wanting it made into the law of the land. That is forced acceptance. They preach their "gospel" under the cloak of "tolerance" and "health" education in our schools. While Christians are not allowed to have a Bible within a city block of a school. They do have their "high priests" and "clerics" who do not reside in marble cathedrals but sitting on the steps of the US Congress and they are called lobbyists.
As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)
Then you and Biff are just brimming with genius:)/s Just admit neither of you have an intelligent response to my original post. Somebody get MENSA on the horn. #%$&!*@! is the new language of intellectual illumination.
They preach their "gospel" under the cloak of "tolerance" and "health" education in our schools. While Christians are not allowed to have a Bible within a city block of a school. They [the homos and advocates] do have their "high priests" and "clerics" who do not reside in marble cathedrals but sitting on the steps of the US Congress and they are called lobbyists. Hitting the truth on all cylinders, brutha. Don't forget the gay lobbying foisted upon America through the Leftist/queer-controlled networks, media, entertainment industries, and...the goob itself within THE INSIDE.
Ok, so we are not talking past each other, below is what I posted, not a quote from someone else or an article, MY words. The point of contention is WHO IS REALLY the TALIBAN here? And if someone cannot read more than two lines, sorry this stuff is not a bumper sticker and requires more than that. You come from a position that sees "tolerance" as being "acceptance." Gays are asking for acceptance and indoctrination and not tolerance. The true meaning of tolerance is this: you have a position, I have a position, we do not agree with each other's position but depart peacefully. What comes after this is called acceptance. Acceptance would be we have opposing views and one of us backs down and "accepts" the other's position as their own. Folks like SJN, me, Liberator and A K A Stone are all about tolerance as it is properly defined. We will not accept the homosexual position. And because folk like us do not accept your position on homosexuality there is only one option left to 'win' the debate. That would be called indoctrination and re- education. And WE ARE seeing that indoctrination today are we not? It is happening in the schools, after school programs, on TV and in universities. This week is the 50th Anniversary of the court decisions forbidding prayer and Bible study in public schools. So you can't say the Christians are trying to indoctrinate the kids in public forums, they can't it is illegal. However, given the homosexual lobby is not considered a religion (it should be) they can get local permission from school boards to "evangelize" their position thus cutting off the whole tolerance or acceptance route to the national debate. That is what good Christian folk are fighting for. Some form of neutrality. If gays can spread their false gospel to the masses unopposed hiding behind the cloak of "intolerance" and "bigotry" of others, The Gospel of Jesus Christ should be getting equal time. And if Christians do not get equal time, then we should be all demanding neutrality, which brings us back to the REAL meaning of tolerance. So based on the above, you can keep calling us intolerant bigots but that has little meaning and is just a chant. If you were tolerant in the real sense of the word, you could call the Christian response to the homosexual agenda as reactionary. And Christians would be correct and tolerant in calling the radical homosexual agenda an insurgency.
As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)
Heading out for a weekend in the woods (without internet!!) See ya! Try posting something original, I'll try and read it when I get back.
. See ya! REMINDER: It's left foot...THEN your right....left....THEN AGAIN your right foot. And don't try to over-think this!! I made sure this was a two-sentence instruction so I guess it's 50-50 you'll survive.
Yes, very interesting. Then the Founders were liars when they said the following about the Bible and Christianity: Samuel Adams "A general dissolution of Principles and Manners will more surely overthrow the Liberties of America than the whole Force of the common enemy. While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but when once they lose their virtue they will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader . . . If virtue and knowledge are diffused among the people, they will never be enslaved. This will be their great security." Samuel Adams, The Writings of Samuel Adams, ed., Harry Alonzo Cushing (G. P. Putman's Sons, 1908), Vol. 4, p. 124. "I ... recommend my Soul to that Almighty Being who gave it, and my body I commit to the dust, relying upon the merits of Jesus Christ for a pardon of all my sins." Will of Samuel Adams "We have this day restored the Sovereign to Whom all men ought to be obedient." "He reigns in Heaven and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let his kingdom come." Samuel Adams "How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the plain Meaning of Words." Samuel Adams The liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil Constitution, are worth defending at all hazards; and it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have received them as a fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors: they purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure and blood, and transmitted them to us with care and diligence. It will bring an everlasting mark of infamy on the present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated out of them by the artifices of false and designing men. Samuel Adams Fisher Ames “Should not the Bible regain the place it once held as a school book? Its morals are pure, its examples, captivating and noble. In no book is there so good English, so pure and so elegant; and by teaching all the same book, they will speak alike, and the Bible will justly remain the standard of language as wellas of faith.” Fisher Ames: Author of the First Amendment Alexander Hamilton "For my own part, I sincerely esteem it a system which without the finger of God, never could have been suggested and agreed upon by such a diversity of interests." Alexander Hamilton "I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man.". Alexander Hamilton Patrick Henry "We shall not fight alone. God presides over the destinies of nations, and will raise up friends for us. The battle is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave . . . Is life so dear, or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" Patrick Henry, in a speech March 23, 1775. "Whether this [new government] will prove a blessing or a curse will depend upon the use our people make of the blessings which a gracious God hath bestowed on us. If they are wise, they will be great and happy. If they are of a contrary character, they will be miserable. Righteousness alone can exalt them as a nation [Proverbs 14:34]. Reader! Whoever thou art, remember this, and in thy sphere practice virtue thyself and encourage it in others." Patrick Henry, Written on the back of Henry's Stamp Act "Amongst other strange things said of me, I hear it is said by the deists that I am one of the number; and, indeed, that some good people think I am no Christian. This thought gives me much more pain than the appellation of Tory; because I think religion of infinitely higher importance than politics; and I find much cause to reproach myself that I have lived so long, and have given no decided and public proofs of my being a Christian. But, indeed, my dear child, this is a character which I prize far above all this world has, or can boast." Patrick Henry, from a letter to his daughter in 1796 "The Bible is worth all other books which have ever been printed." Patrick Henry, Wirt Henry's, Life, vol. II, p. 621 "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." Patrick Henry "Three millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Beside, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of Nations, and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us." Patrick Henry John Jay "Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers. And it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest, of a Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers." First Chief Justice of Supreme Court John Jay to Jedidiah Morse February 28, 1797 "God's will be done; to him I resign--in him I confide. Do the like. Any other philosophy applicable to this occasion is delusive. Away with it." John Jay, first Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court, in a letter to his wife, Sally Jay, April 20, 1794, reprinted in The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, ed. Henry P. Johnston (New York, NY: Burt Franklin, 1970), vol. 4, p. 7. "I have long been of opinion that the evidence of the truth of Christianity requires only to be carefully examined to produce conviction in candid minds . . ." John Jay, in a letter to Rev. Uzal Ogden, Feb. 14, 1796, in CPPJJ, vol. 4, p. 203. "While in France . . . I do not recollect to have had more than two conversations with atheists about their tenants. The first was this: I was at a large party, of which were several of that description. They spoke freely and contemptuously of religion. I took no part in the conversation. In the course of it, one of them asked me if I believed in Christ? I answered that I did, and that I thanked God that I did." John Jay, in a letter to John Bristed, April 23, 1811, in CPPJJ, vol. 4, p. 359. "The same merciful Providence has also been pleased to cause every material event and occurrence respecting our Redeemer, together with the gospel he proclaimed, and the miracles and predictions to which it gave occasion, to be faithfully recorded and preserved for the information and benefit of all mankind." John Jay, in an address to the American Bible Society, May 9, 1822, in CPPJJ, vol. 4, p. 480. John Marshall "The American population is entirely Christian, and with us Christianity and Religion are identified. It would be strange indeed, if with such a people, our institutions did not presuppose Christianity, and did not often refer to it, and exhibit relations with it." John Marshall, in a letter to Jasper Adams, May 9, 1833, JSAC, p. 139. Marshall was Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court from 1801-1835. Benjamin Rush "I have alternately been called an Aristocrat and a Democrat. I am neither. I am a Christocrat." Benjamin Rush "Let the children...be carefully instructed in the principles and obligations of the Christian religion. This is the most essential part of education. The great enemy of the salvation of man, in my opinion, never invented a more effectual means of extirpating [removing] Christianity from the world than by persuading mankind that it was improper to read the Bible at schools." Benjamin Rush, The Father of American Medicine, and the Father of American Psychiatry "The only foundation for a useful education in a republic is to be laid in religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty- - -" Benjamin Rush, Letters of Benjamin Rush, L.H. Butterfield, editor, Princeton: The American Philosophical Society, 1951, Vol. I p. 414, "To the citizens of Philadelphia: A Plan for Free Schools", March 28, 1787 "It will be necessary to connect all these (academic) branches of education with regular instruction in the Christian religion." Benjamin Rush, Essays, Literary, Moral, and Philosophical, Philadelphia: Thomas & William Bradford, 1806, Ch. 'Thoughts upon Female Education' p. 82 Roger Sherman "I believe that there is only one living and true God - - - That the scriptures of the old and new testaments are a revelation from God and a complete rule to direct us how we may glorify and enjoy Him." Lewis Henry Boutell, The Life of Roger Sherman (Chicago: A.C. McClurg and Co., 1896), pp. 272-273 David Barton, Original Intent (Aledo, TX: Wallbuilders, 2000) Ch. 6 p. 138 "Let us live no more to ourselves, but to Him who loved us, and gave Himself to die for us". M.E. Bradford, A Worthy Company (Marlborough, NH, Plymouth Rock Foundation, 1982) p. 29 Joseph Storey "Christianity becomes not merely an auxiliary, but a guide, to the law of nature; establishing its conclusions, removing its doubts, and elevating its precepts." Joseph Story, "The Value and Importance of Legal Studies," a lecture delivered August 25, 1829 at his inauguration as Dane Professor of Law in Harvard University, cited in James McClellan, Joseph Story and the American Constitution (Norman, OK: University of Oklahoma, 1971), p. 66. Story served as Associate Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court from 1811-1845, and founded the Harvard Law School. "My own private judgment has long been (and every day's experience more and more confirms me in it) that government cannot long exist without an alliance with Religion to some extent, and that Christianity is indispensable to the true interests and solid foundation of all governments. . . . I know not, indeed, how any deep sense of moral obligation or accountableness can be expected to prevail in the community without a firm foundation of the great Christian truths." Joseph Story, in a letter to Jasper Adams, May 14, 1833, in JSAC, p. 139. "One of the beautiful boasts of our municipal jurisprudence is, that Christianity is a part of the common law, from which it seeks the sanction of its rights, and by which it endeavours to regulate its doctrines. And, notwithstanding the specious objection of one of our distinguished statesmen, the boast is as true, as it is beautiful. There never has been a period, in which the common law did not recognise Christianity as lying at its foundations" Miscellaneous Writings, p.451, “The real object of the (First) Amendment was not to countenance, much less advance, Mahometanism, or Judaism, or infidelity, by prostrating Chrisianity; but to exclude all rivalry among Christian sects (denominations).” Original Intent, by David Barton, ch. 2, p. 31, Wallbuilder Press, Aledo, TX, 1996; Commentaries, Story, Vol. III, p. 728, 1871 Noah Webster "The religion which has introduced civil liberty is the religion of Christ and His Apostles.... This is genuine Christianity and to this we owe our free constitutions of government." Noah Webster Daniel Webster "Finally, let us not forget the religious character of our origin." Daniel Webster "Our fathers were brought hither by their high veneration for the Christian religion. They journeyed by its light, and labored by its hope." Daniel Webster
As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)
Comments (331 - 482) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestOr we could put Biff in a padded room like Jim. Since I suspect Biff has me on Bozo, the rest of us can enjoy the video:
#292. To: Liberator (#270)
So sayeth the Statist-Pro-Homo Lying Athiest who fails to see the *IRONY* that Commies AND Atheists share the same hatred of Christianity.
#293. To: Liberator (#272)
Lol, you think I'm bothered by your curse of The Almighty?
#294. To: Liberator (#273)
More horsesh*t and lies....But I guess practice makes perfect.
#295. To: redleghunter, Biff Tannen, A K A Stone, TooConservative, SJN (#284)
Biff, who is trying to force their "will" on the people by using government?...
#296. To: Liberator (#275)
You demand *everyone* kneel and bow down to the gay fascism that demand we all accept "gay marriage"
#297. To: sneakypete (#285)
Ok,how do YOU define "fundies"
#298. To: Biff Tannen (#278)
I never said I was in favor of it either. I was talking about people who are trying to use the force of government to make their beliefs law. I've never said anything in support of gays or against Christians.
#299. To: SJN (#280)
I regret to inform you that more than your memory may well see hell.
#300. To: Biff Tannen, redleghunter (#286)
Biffy: "I'm not here to educate you, asswipe."
#301. To: redleghunter (#282)
I sure do. Family, friends and when I was a youngster is 1/11th SFG a slew of them were in the unit. Not to mention the VFW.
#302. To: redleghunter (#282)
Family, friends and when I was a youngster is 1/11th SFG
#303. To: Biff Tannen (#289)
I tried to wade through that a couple of times. Too many words.
#304. To: Biff Tannen, redleghunter (#289)
Narrow it down to a couple of sentences, why don't you.
#305. To: sneakypete (#301)
And you are trying to claim they were all thumpers?
#306. To: sneakypete (#302)
BTW,the 11th was a Reserve unit. They may have been VN-era vets,but none of went to VN unless they went active duty.
#307. To: Liberator (#297)
Ok,how do YOU define "fundies" Fundie Catholics and Muslims,for instance.
#308. To: sneakypete, Biff Tannen, Liberator (#304)
Narrow it down to a couple of sentences, why don't you. But....but...but,that would require THINKING instead of "FEELING".
#309. To: redleghunter (#305)
That was not the original point.
#310. To: sneakypete (#287)
(Edited)
It would be easier and more accurate to just describe me as being "militantly pro- Bill of Rights".
#311. To: redleghunter (#308)
Then you and Biff are just brimming with genius:)/s
#312. To: redleghunter, Biffy (#288)
Perhaps you could respond to what I posted instead of continuing to plow through a manure truck with your language.
#313. To: Biff Tannen, redleghunter (#289)
I tried to wade through that a couple of times. Too many words.
#314. To: sneakypete (#309)
Not only a lie,a DAMN LIE! You and every other thumper on this board is ranting and raving about creating laws that treat one group of citizens as being of an inferior class that shouldn't have the same rights as other citizens.
#315. To: sneakypete (#311)
Well,neither of us has to habitually fill responses with quotes from other people in order to pretend we are thinking.
#316. To: Liberator (#313)
tried to wade through that a couple of times. Too many words. Would LARGE pictures and a few crayons help you any?
#317. To: sneakypete (#290)
Society and civilization has "imposed" it's beliefs because they are NORMAL AND NATURAL.
#318. To: redleghunter (#316)
He did not like the cartoons and won't read more than two lines. He must be one of the Congressmen who voted for Odingacare before even reading it.
#319. To: Liberator (#310)
frankly I agree with much of your opinion regarding "freedoms" and "rights"
#320. To: redleghunter (#314)
Who is passing laws in 2012 to change traditional marriage to something else?
#321. To: sneakypete, Redleghunter, TooConservative, LF Christians (#292)
Kinda like people like you and your brothers in the Taliban want people to live today.
Me: "Pete also fails to acknowledge that the American Founding Fathers by and large were adherents of the 'Cult' of Christianity."
#322. To: sneakypete (#319)
Yeah,people have rights as long as they agree with your opinions,right?
#323. To: redleghunter, sneakypete (#315)
LOL, you really do not pay attention. I pasted my own words from another thread. The words and argument are mine. Take a look at them if you really care to debate.
#324. To: sneakypete (#320)
Obviously. It has to do with your desire to get the government to enforce your religious viewpoints on others.
#325. To: redleghunter, sneakypete, Biff Tannen (#308)
So thorough writing is considered feeling. That is quite humorous. So if I wrote two sentences, and used insults and profanity that would be genius right?
#326. To: redleghunter, sneakypete (#324)
I DO consider the homosexual lobby as a religion. They are taking a private practice and wanting it made into the law of the land. That is forced acceptance.
#327. To: sneakypete, Biff Tannen, Liberator, SJN, A K A Stone, TooConservative (#321)
Kinda like people like you and your brothers in the Taliban want people to live today.
#328. To: redleghunter (#303)
Say hello to your grandma for me.
#329. To: Biff Tannen (#328)
(Edited)
Heading out for a weekend in the woods (without internet!!)
#330. To: Liberator, sneakypete, SJN, A K A Stone, Biff Tannen, TooConservative (#321)
Liberator: "Pete also fails to acknowledge that the American Founding Fathers by and large were adherents of the 'Cult' of Christianity." Pete: "A easy lie to sell..."
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