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Bible Study
See other Bible Study Articles

Title: Three Articles that help explain Israel
Source: WELS (Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod)
URL Source: http://www.wels.net/news-events/for ... december-2008/invisible-church
Published: Jun 24, 2012
Author: various - Noted at end of each article.
Post Date: 2012-06-24 10:03:21 by SJN
Keywords: None
Views: 260575
Comments: 482

The Invisible Church

As the Bible describes the church, it becomes clear that the church is both what we see and what we cannot see.

Church. The word paints a picture. You see the building in which you worship. It may be a small, white-frame building set on a hill in the quiet countryside. Or it may be a large, stone structure occupying a street corner in a busy city. It’s not unusual for us to think of a building when we think of church. Worship is an important part of our lives, and that worship takes place in a building we love, whether it is fancy or plain.

But that is not the way the word church is used in the Bible. In Scripture, church most often refers to people and not to buildings.

The church is invisible

In the New Testament the word ecclesia is often translated as church. Ecclesia refers to a group of people who have been called together. It is an assembly. Yet even that definition does not fully explain what the church is. As the Bible describes the church, it becomes clear that the church is both what we see and what we cannot see. The church is both visible and invisible.

Why would we call a church invisible? You can see a building. You can see the people who gather in that building. Yet we do speak of the church as invisible in the Apostles’ Creed when we confess “I believe in the holy Christian church, the communion of saints.” Sometimes people mistakenly use the term saint to refer to a person who does an abundance of good deeds, someone who helps others. But the Bible uses the term to describe simply a believer. We even distinguish between believers who have been called home to heaven and those who still battle in this world. We speak of saints triumphant and saints militant.

The apostle Peter describes these believers as “a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God” (1 Peter 2:9). Together all believers form the holy Christian church, a “spiritual house” made up of living stones chosen by God. When the Holy Spirit works faith in our hearts, we become part of this structure. The Lord Jesus can see the faith in our hearts. We, however, can only see the fruits of faith and not the faith itself. Because we cannot see faith, the church is invisible to our eyes. The prophet Elijah did not recognize that there were still seven thousand believers in Israel (1 Kings 19:8-18). He thought that he was the only believer left. Likewise, we cannot always tell whether a person is a believer or an unbeliever.

As the Bible describes the church, it becomes clear that the church is both what we see and what we cannot see.

Although the church may be invisible to us, the Lord sees his church clearly. “The Lord knows those who are his” (2 Timothy 2:19). At the same time each person knows what is in his or her heart. Trusting in the promises the Lord gives us, we know that we belong to that communion of saints, the church of God.

Characteristics of the invisible church

This invisible gathering of all believers is not limited by geography. The apostle John reminds us that believers come from different places and “from every nation, tribe, people and language” (Revelation 7:9). In addition, the church is not limited by time. All believers who have lived, are now living, and will live until Jesus returns at the end of time—all these believers are part of this church. The church, the body of all believers, is invisible, and it is also universal. Once again we confess this fact in the Third Article of the Apostles’ Creed. “I believe in the holy Christian church.” The first people who used this confession of faith said, “I believe in the holy catholic church.” The word catholic originally had no denominational connotation. It simply meant universal. When catholic became associated with a particular organization, the word Christian was substituted to prevent confusion. In the Apostles’ Creed we confess that we believe that the Lord gathers together everyone whose faith is in Jesus Christ as the Savior.

People believe in many things. We say that we believe in our team, in our country, and in people who are dear to us. Likewise, many people believe in some religious figure other than Christ. God’s invisible church gathers together only those people who confess Jesus as their Savior. We distinguish ourselves from the followers of Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, and every other religion. We confess that Jesus Christ is true man and true God. We believe that Christ is sinless and perfect and that he is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.

As the Bible describes the church, it becomes clear that the church is both what we see and what we cannot see.

In a world that suggests that it does not matter what you believe as long as you believe, it becomes important to remember that the invisible church gathers together all believers in Christ. Without faith in Jesus we cannot be saved. Without Jesus we have no part in the communion of saints, the gathering of all believers. Jesus makes that clear when he says, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6).

People die. Church buildings may fall apart. Congregations may disband. But the invisible church continues. The Lord has promised that there will always be true believers who are kept faithful by the power of God. “My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand” (John 10:27,28). What a comfort it is to know that the Holy Spirit, who calls us to faith, also preserves us in that faith through the gospel in Word and sacraments!

It is easy to become attached to a congregation. It is in that fellowship that we listen to the good news of Jesus proclaimed. There we hear that our sins are forgiven. In our congregation we draw close to Jesus as we receive the sacrament of his body and blood. Likewise the building in which a congregation worships may be a special place. It may be the same structure in which we were baptized, confirmed, and married. It reminds us of all the blessings God has showered upon us.

But we are part of something that is even more valuable, the holy Christian church. Our triune God has brought us together with people we may never see or know on this side of eternity. Through faith the Lord has made us a part of the congregation of all believers. Right now we are not able to see this church in its entirety. Yet what is invisible to our eyes now will be seen when the Lord returns in glory. What a joy it will be to see all believers from every part of the world and from all times! The day will come when we will gather together and praise the God of grace who gives us membership in his family, the invisible church. That church is not really invisible. It is only invisible to us. God sees it clearly.

James Korthals, a professor at Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary, Mequon, Wisconsin, is a member at David’s Star, Jackson.

Peter's Picture of the Church

1 Peter 2:4-10

The word "temple" in our modern society usually describes a large, beautiful building which is used for the worship of some god. The use of such temples goes back thousands of years. Peter used it to paint a beautiful word picture of Jesus and his church in 2:4-8.

Made up of living stones

Jesus is pictured in many ways in John's gospel. Peter adds his own picture here, when he writes, "The Lord Jesus is the living stone" (v. 4). In verse 6 he gives the original source for this statement (Isaiah 28:16), where God said, "Look! I'm laying a stone in Zion [another name for Israel], a very special cornerstone of great value, and the person who believes in him will never be disappointed."

In the ancient world the cornerstone was more than a stone on which was carved the date of construction. The cornerstone determined the length, the width, and the height of the building, so that the whole building depended on that cornerstone.

That is the picture Peter uses to describe the church in verse 5a, where he says, "And since you are living stones, as you come to him you are built up into a spiritual temple," of which Jesus is the cornerstone. The church is built on Jesus, and around Jesus, the cornerstone. And it is made up of people who are like Jesus--perfectly holy beings in God's sight. That is the way God sees every person who truly believes in Jesus as his or her Savior, because our God-given faith makes us new creatures who are perfectly holy in God's sight, and every such person "will never be disappointed" on Judgment Day.

Then Peter explains in verse 7, "This means that he's of great value to you people who believe in him, but for those who don't believe in him, 'the stone which the builders [the Jewish nation as a whole] decided was no good, is the very one which has become the cornerstone'; and 'the stone which will make people stumble, and the rock which will make them fall.' "How clear Peter makes it that Jesus is the difference between eternal life and eternal damnation.

We are now a holy group of priests

Next Peter uses a new metaphor in verse 5 when he says that the believers who come to Jesus as living stones "are built up into a spiritual temple, to be a holy group of priests, who offer up spiritual sacrifices which God is happy to receive." He continues in verses 9,10, "There was a time when you were no people at all, but now you are God's people. You who never knew God's mercy have now received his mercy." Praise the Lord!

Peter is reminding us that there was a time when we were all outsiders, so far as God is concerned, unbelievers who had never heard of the triune God. But now that we have heard the good news and have come to believe it, we are God's people, while the Jews, as a nation, have rejected their Messiah and are outsiders.

Now you must take note of the fact that every believer is a priest whose principal occupation it is to offer spiritual sacrifices to our triune God each day of our lives. Yes, from morning to evening we offer our God our thanks and praises for the undeserved love he has shown us by sending first his Son to atone for all our sins, and then his Holy Spirit who has brought us to believe the good news that all our sins are forgiven by Jesus' death on the cross, so that we are now God's children who are perfectly holy in God's sight.

Our task as priests is to also bring him our other sacrifices. First there are our time and our talents which we spend carrying out the different tasks we can do as members of our congregations. In some cases we may give our Lord all of our time and talents to serve as pastors, teachers, missionaries, or church office workers.

All of us, whether we are active workers or not, can offer the Lord a portion of our financial resources, which represent the value of our time spent in some gainful occupation.

And of course the temple in which we serve is known to us as the church, the whole body of believers. The picture of the church that Peter gives us here is perhaps the most complete picture to be found anywhere in the Bible.

Julian Anderson is a retired pastor and seminary professor living in Naples, Florida.


(The Following article should help to illuminate why the Nation of Israel and it's people have seen thousands of years of turmoil).

Samuel: A Judge in Israel

Concentrating on the Lord is daunting when dangers clamor for attention. Think back 300 years before Samuel. Following the death of those who carved a Jewish homeland out of Canaan, “another generation grew up, who knew neither the Lord nor what he had done for Israel” (Judges 2:10).

To awaken his spiritually-anesthetized people, God enlisted neighboring nations to harass, enslave, and terrorize Israel. Slapped to consciousness, God’s people recognized their sin, pleaded for forgiveness, and prayed for relief. God then raised up leaders—judges—who with the Lord’s power pushed back the oppressors. Moral and spiritual health flourished. But “when the judge died, the people returned to ways even more corrupt than those of their fathers . . .” (Judges 2:19).

Repenting to God

This cycle of godlessness, oppression, repentance, freedom, upright living, and a return to godlessness repeated itself until Samuel. Remember Eli and his sons? 1 Samuel 7 brings us to a repentance and freedom section of that cycle and to Samuel as Israel’s final judge.

The Ark of the Covenant remained in the border town of Kiriath-Jearim for 20 years after the Philistines captured it and then returned it to stem a Lord-induced plague. During those two decades “all the people of Israel mourned and sought after the Lord” (7:2).

To confirm that renaissance of faith, Samuel summoned his countrymen to a spiritually essential, but politically provocative, act—national purification and rededication. Israel was not a free country. Philistine overlords kept close watch. When their surveillance noticed huge numbers of Israelites staging at Mizpah (literally, “look out point”), their early-warning alarms wailed. Mizpah was a military gem mounted in hills about eight miles north of Jerusalem.

Soon the sound of Philistine marching boots, the clank of armor, and the bellow of war trumpets echoed off Mizpah. “When the Israelites heard of it, they were afraid . . .” (7:7). No doubt. Concentrating on the Lord is daunting when dangers (dare we add personal problems or financial difficulties) clamor for attention.

Victory through God

Samuel, however, urged Israel to fasten on God. “Do not stop crying out to the Lord our God for us, that he may rescue us” (7:8). Strength was not in their military might, but in the Lord’s omnipotence.

God confirmed that. With Israeli knees bent in prayer and without an Israeli sword unsheathed, God’s deafening thunder routed the Philistine army. Panicked, the troops stumbled south toward safety. Their backs made easy targets.

The Philistine losses that day did not completely free Israel. We await Saul and David to accomplish that. Israel, however, did enjoy a season of peace with Philistia and, as a fringe benefit, with the Amorites.

Concentrating on the Lord is daunting when dangers clamor for attention.

To mark the victory, Samuel set up a monument called Ebenezer (“stone of help”). Ebenezer stones (church cornerstones, wedding anniversaries, birthdays) remind us, “Thus far has the Lord helped us.” But our most conclusive proof that there’s always an upside in our downside world is Jesus, “the stone the builders rejected [that] has become the capstone” (1 Peter 2:7).

James A. Aderman is pastor at Fairview, Milwaukee.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 328.

#2. To: SJN (#0)

"And so the escalation-cum-provocation-cum false flag is complete. There was a time when shooting down a foreign jet over one's territory was considered self-defense. But not when the one doing the defending is perpetual media bogeyman Syria, which "unnamed sources say" kills hundreds, nay thousands of its own people daily, usually in round, soundbitey numbers."

Anything starting out to explain the Jewish Homeland fostered by the 1916 Sykes Picot Agreement, augmented by the Churchill 1921 Cairo Conference, furthered by the Balfour declaration 1926 , and cemented with the

POTUS LBJ calling back the fighters to the USS Saratoga to leave the USS Liberty at the mercy of Israeli full on attack....

Anything starting out with:

'As the Bible describes' is full on bat shite crazyland.....;}

mcgowanjm  posted on  2012-06-24   10:29:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: mcgowanjm (#2)

I have no doubt that anything to do with the Gospel is "crazyland" to you.

You have planks over your eyes and your heart is stone cold.

May our Lord and Savior have mercy on you.

SJN  posted on  2012-06-24   10:37:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: SJN, Satan's Tool, mcgowanjm (#5)

I have no doubt that anything to do with the Gospel is "crazyland" to you.

You have planks over your eyes and your heart is stone cold.

Jimmy's mad at God...Because the Free Will he's given man has been abused (by listening too much to the whispers of Satan). Thus, Jimmy's (ironically) agree to do Satan's bidding. As "revenge".

If THAT isn't crazy, what is??

May our Lord and Savior have mercy on you.

That depends on Jimmy humbling hilsef, doesn't it?

Liberator  posted on  2012-06-24   12:27:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Liberator (#22)

JM's resistance of the beast you worship is truly the work of the Lord. Jesus, afterall, was a rebel.

Logsplitter  posted on  2012-06-24   13:46:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Logsplitter (#24)

JM's resistance of the beast you worship is truly the work of the Lord.

So...It's your contention that God is to blame for JM's rejection of God...and worship of Satan?

Wanna clarify?

Liberator  posted on  2012-06-24   14:09:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Liberator (#26)

No God, no Satan. One can't exist without the other. So when is God going to do domething about this Satan person? Waiting...waiting...waiting...

Logsplitter  posted on  2012-06-24   17:38:11 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Logsplitter (#27) (Edited)

So when is God going to do domething about this Satan person?

I guess God doesn't think this would be as interesting a place without ole Satan here to mix things up a little.

NewsJunky  posted on  2012-06-24   17:55:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: NewsJunky, Logsplitter (#28)

I guess God doesn't think this would be as interesting a place without ole Satan here to mix things up a little.

Will you pass The Almighty's test and humble yourself? Or succumb to your nature and the lies of Satan?

The REALLY "interesting" place will be God's Heaven - and its unimaginable glory.

The OTHER place - not so much. Imagine spending ALL Eternity with THE worst of human elements.

Liberator  posted on  2012-06-25   10:02:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: Liberator, Logsplitter (#36)

the lies of Satan?

How exactly do you know what are the lies of Satan? He doesn't exactly go around and give press conferences to publicize his activities.

NewsJunky  posted on  2012-06-25   17:09:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: NewsJunky, Logsplitter, Redleghunter, Serenissima Venezia, SJN, Biff Tannen, mcgowanjm, A K A Stone, whyofcourse, sneakypete, arasina (#56)

Please...

THIS may be THE most important 47 minutes of your mortal life.....It's NOT the same ol'. Give this testimony and vivid descriptive "preview" of Hell a chance. Be patience and hear this man out. NO profit. NO motive. NO pontification.

Just a man's nightmare for 23 minutes....

Liberator  posted on  2012-06-26   10:26:07 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: Liberator (#65)

What kind of twisted mind do you have to think I would want and enjoy living somebody else's nightmare for even 23 seconds,never mind 23 minutes?

Or that I would even waste 23 minutes of my life to hear a cult spiel?

sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-26   22:05:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#96. To: sneakypete (#95)

What kind of twisted mind do you have to think I would want and enjoy living somebody else's nightmare for even 23 seconds,never mind 23 minutes?

Or that I would even waste 23 minutes of my life to hear a cult spiel?

The 23 GAZILLION HOURS you've wasted engaging the gay-statist nightmare named "yu-klown" on a dopey forum called Liberty Post seemed to be important enough to you, so what do I know?

Oh, I just remembered why I gave it a shot - I care about your eternal soul and thought you might consider 23 MORE minutes wouldn't exactly break the camel's back. My bad.

The guy's nightmare (for some) is far more intimate and personal account of the wrong side God, but here is the short of it (14 & 15 being part of the dream/nightmare):

Revelation 20

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

When you get bored of the usual political banter that won't really matter real soon, give that 23 minutes a serious look.

Liberator  posted on  2012-06-26   22:50:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#100. To: Liberator (#96)

The 23 GAZILLION HOURS you've wasted engaging the gay-statist nightmare named "yu-klown" on a dopey forum called Liberty Post seemed to be important enough to you, so what do I know?

You don't know much if you think I would be interested in that brainwashing,or that I wouldn't feel insulted because you want to "save my soul". What's wrong with my soul? How is yours any better? Worry about saving your own soul and leave me out of this crap.

sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-27   2:17:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#102. To: sneakypete (#100)

What's wrong with my soul?

Lots sneaky. For one you would tell little kids that two men have a right to be " married". Confusing them and possibly fucking them up. You are as leftist as any liberal on that one.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-06-27   6:49:51 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#109. To: A K A Stone (#102)

For one you would tell little kids that two men have a right to be " married".

No,I wouldn't.

What part of "It's not any of my business what consenting adults do in their private lives." that you don't understand?

You are as leftist as any liberal on that one.

Wrong,once again! YOU and those like you are on the left on this one,because homosexuals were either jailed or locked away in mental institutions in communist countries.

sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-27   10:21:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#113. To: sneakypete, A K A Stone (#109)

A K A: "For one you would tell little kids that two men have a right to be " married".

Pete: "What part of "It's not any of my business what consenting adults do in their private lives." that you don't understand?"

Promoting/demanding "gay marriage" through legislative coercion and the courts has ZIP to do with privacy issues of consenting adults.

What are you missing about this kind of fascism, Pete?

Liberator  posted on  2012-06-27   12:41:29 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#116. To: Liberator (#113)

What are you missing about this kind of fascism, Pete?

The whole part were people you claim to be fascists are pushing for the same individual rights everyone else has.

You see so little demand for individual freedoms from fascists.

sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-27   19:40:10 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#118. To: sneakypete (#116) (Edited)

The whole part were people you claim to be fascists are pushing for the same individual rights everyone else has.

You see so little demand for individual freedoms from fascists.

So in YOUR opinion, the position that opposing the fallacious term, "gay marriage", is fascism?? It's my OWN damn "individual right" to not ONLY oppose it politically and personally, but call it WRONG. What bugs YOU is that I oppose it on RELIGIOUS grounds as well. Too damned bad.

Your precious queers can f** whomever they want in the privacy of YOUR own bedroom or yu-klowns - nobody is stopping you OR him. They have even shoved their perverted agenda up our azz through schools, the media, YOUR goob, and the entertainment industries and corrupt the world WITH impunity. And still you're b*tching and moaning about "individual rights". Are you frickin' serious??

What's your BS "fascism" claim again?? (and type slowly this time.)

Liberator  posted on  2012-06-27   20:06:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#123. To: Liberator (#118)

So in YOUR opinion, the position that opposing the fallacious term, "gay marriage", is fascism??

No. What is fascist is telling others they are to be required by law and the force of government to live according to YOUR beliefs.

It's my OWN damn "individual right" to not ONLY oppose it politically and personally, but call it WRONG.

And you have every right to those opinions. For YOU. You do NOT have the right to demand others live according to your opinions.

Your precious queers can f** whomever they want in the privacy of YOUR own bedroom or yu-klowns - nobody is stopping you OR him.

Now they are MY queers and I want to let them into MY bedroom?

And you STILL wonder why people think you are hysterical when it comes to this?

What's your BS "fascism" claim again?? (and type slowly this time.)

If you haven't understood it by now it is because you dno't choose to understand it.

sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-27   21:45:29 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#125. To: sneakypete (#123)

What is fascist is telling others they are to be required by law and the force of government to live according to YOUR beliefs.

You have this totally backwards. At first the "gay" movement was one of being able to tell the public that they enjoy sex with the same gender, then it was about being able to receive the same benefits from and employer. (Insurance,etc. as IF they were married). Now it's about churches and religious organizations being forced to marry them in their church's!

Wake the frick up. This is not about their freedom to screw the same sex and receive married type benefits. It is about inserting their demands on the religious organizations of America by way of Government decree.

SJN  posted on  2012-06-27   21:51:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#141. To: SJN, sneakypete (#125) (Edited)

Sneakypete: "What is fascist is telling others they are to be required by law and the force of government to live according to YOUR beliefs."

You have this totally backwards.

At first the "gay" movement was one of being able to tell the public that they enjoy sex with the same gender, then it was about being able to receive the same benefits from and employer. (Insurance,etc. as IF they were married). Now it's about churches and religious organizations being forced to marry them in their church's!

Yup. TOTALLY azz-backwards.

SJN, you have NAILED the MO of the fascist gay moment (which Petey supports 110%), as he and THEY try and reverse the truth of the matter.

First it's "Fundies" preventing them from porking each other up the wazoo, THEN we're stopping them from porking IN their actual bedroom, THEN we're guilty of stopping them from porking and marching in the streets, receiving "partnership" bennies (that straights CAN'T), and demanding respect and recognition of and for "gay marriage"...but lastly, DEMANDING to be married in Churches.

And now you have Pete lying and accusing "fundies" of (HIS WORDS) "telling others they are to be required by law and the force of government to live according to YOUR [Christian] beliefs."

BULL-SH*T, Pete.

The "fascist" is YOU and your queer army.

Liberator  posted on  2012-06-27   23:51:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#161. To: Liberator (#141)

To: SJN, sneakypete

Sneakypete: "What is fascist is telling others they are to be required by law and the force of government to live according to YOUR beliefs." You have this totally backwards.

At first the "gay" movement was one of being able to tell the public that they enjoy sex with the same gender, then it was about being able to receive the same benefits from and employer. (Insurance,etc. as IF they were married). Now it's about churches and religious organizations being forced to marry them in their church's!

Yup. TOTALLY azz-backwards.

SJN, you have NAILED the MO of the fascist gay moment (which Petey supports 110%), as he and THEY try and reverse the truth of the matter.

First it's "Fundies" preventing them from porking each other up the wazoo, THEN we're stopping them from porking IN their actual bedroom, THEN we're guilty of stopping them from porking and marching in the streets, receiving "partnership" bennies (that straights CAN'T), and demanding respect and recognition of and for "gay marriage"...but lastly, DEMANDING to be married in Churches.

And now you have Pete lying and accusing "fundies" of (HIS WORDS) "telling others they are to be required by law and the force of government to live according to YOUR [Christian] beliefs."

BULL-SH*T, Pete.

I am reminded of the old Soldier getting ready to retire:

"When I first came in the Army being gay was illegal

Then it was tolerated

Then it was celebrated and approved

I am getting out before it becomes mandatory!!!"

LOL I love that one

redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-28   13:15:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#187. To: redleghunter (#161)

Do you think the government can pass a law and make YOU a homosexual?

sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-28   14:21:42 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#189. To: sneakypete (#187)

Do you think the government can pass a law and make YOU a homosexual?

You missed the point. Forced "acceptance" of a view is tyranny. We are seeing the tyranny in the schools with indocrination programs.

redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-28   14:25:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#192. To: redleghunter (#189)

You missed the point. Forced "acceptance" of a view is tyranny.

Nobody can force you to accept any viewpoint. Period.

Yeah,they can shut you up in public or at work in order to avoid being physically attacked or fired,but nobody can make you believe what you don't want to believe.

sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-28   14:29:26 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#197. To: sneakypete (#192)

Yeah,they can shut you up in public or at work

And the end result is what from that? Having to deprogram your kids when they come home from school. Still sounds like tyranny to me when one side is shut up and the other has free exercise of their message. We are all being MISO'ed by the left and you are ok with it. You even encourage it. And as an SF Soldier you will figure out what MISO is.

redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-28   14:47:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#201. To: redleghunter (#197)

And as an SF Soldier you will figure out what MISO is.

I don't know why you accept his claims at face value. Or why you consider his opinion to have elevated meaning if he was SF.

We have a confessed war criminal now running for U.S. Senate. He was a SEAL who has admitted to war crimes in Vietnam. So does that somehow make him credible all at once? Maybe he could wave his stump at you if you doubt him.

But we do know he is a SEAL. Can you vouch for sneaky? I don't think so.

The internet is chock full of SEAL wannabes. Even those who never served can pick up plenty of lingo and procedural information at the various vet forums.

Tooconservative  posted on  2012-06-28   15:27:07 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#203. To: TooConservative (#201)

The internet is chock full of SEAL wannabes. Even those who never served can pick up plenty of lingo and procedural information at the various vet forums.

I give the benefit of the doubt on these forums until something presents itself otherwise.

redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-28   16:35:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#208. To: redleghunter (#203)

I give the benefit of the doubt on these forums until something presents itself otherwise.

Maybe it already has. Do you really find that many viciously aggressively antichrist atheist types, full of hate for religion like sneakypete is, in the military?

Personally, I've never met even one that behaved like this. And I would guess you haven't either.

Isn't it peculiar how sneaky reserves every bit of his fury only for Christians? I've never seen him post a peep on the Major Hassan shootings at Fort Hood. You'd think he might reserve a bit of his venom for the Muslims. But, no, his only target is the Prince of Peace.

That's why I don't buy it. Never did. No doubt, he and others can summon considerable military or weapons lingo to parade around but I still don't buy it. I've come to believe that up to half the people who make such claims online have never gotten closer to the actual military than playing board game re-enactments of historical battles and watching Discovery channel and Military channel materials. Anyone can read historical novels, frequent veteran forums, pick up the lingo, etc. I do know that there are a lot of military imposters online.

Sneaky isn't merely debating here. He's pouring out his rage at Christ.

Tooconservative  posted on  2012-06-28   17:03:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#248. To: TooConservative (#208)

Personally, I've never met even one [sneakypete] that behaved like this. And I would guess you haven't either.

He's been posting since '98 or thereabouts.

Buy a clue, #1 a-hole.

I hope you departed. Good riddance.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2012-06-28   22:23:22 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#250. To: Fred Mertz (#248)

What a fucking dope that guy is. Lol

Biff Tannen  posted on  2012-06-28   22:27:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#277. To: Biff Tannen (#250)

The real Biff Tannen wasn't for queers pretending and trying to force society to pretend they are married.

The faggots are now a problem. It is time to get rid of the fag problem. That means stop catering perverts. It is unbecoming of a moral people.

Why do you want us to enshrine evil in our culture? You're better then that Biff. Come on wake up snap out of it.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-06-29   4:49:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#278. To: A K A Stone (#277)

The real Biff Tannen wasn't for queers pretending and trying to force society to pretend they are married.

I never said I was in favor of it either. I was talking about people who are trying to use the force of government to make their beliefs law. I've never said anything in support of gays or against Christians.

I see people on this thread trying to enshrine their beliefs in law and I'm pointing it out.

That's all.

I'm still the real Biff!!

Biff Tannen  posted on  2012-06-29   8:23:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#284. To: Biff Tannen, A K A Stone, Liberator, SJN (#278)

I never said I was in favor of it either. I was talking about people who are trying to use the force of government to make their beliefs law. I've never said anything in support of gays or against Christians.

Biff, who is trying to force their "will" on the people by using government? Below is a post in response to the same issue on another thread.

You come from a position that sees "tolerance" as being "acceptance."

Gays are asking for acceptance and indoctrination and not tolerance.

The true meaning of tolerance is this: you have a position, I have a position, we do not agree with each other's position but depart peacefully. What comes after this is called acceptance. Acceptance would be we have opposing views and one of us backs down and "accepts" the other's position as their own. Folks like SJN, me, Liberator and A K A Stone are all about tolerance as it is properly defined. We will not accept the homosexual position. And because folk like us do not accept your position on homosexuality there is only one option left to 'win' the debate. That would be called indoctrination and re- education. And WE ARE seeing that indoctrination today are we not? It is happening in the schools, after school programs, on TV and in universities. This week is the 50th Anniversary of the court decisions forbidding prayer and Bible study in public schools. So you can't say the Christians are trying to indoctrinate the kids in public forums, they can't it is illegal. However, given the homosexual lobby is not considered a religion (it should be) they can get local permission from school boards to "evangelize" their position thus cutting off the whole tolerance or acceptance route to the national debate.

That is what good Christian folk are fighting for. Some form of neutrality. If gays can spread their false gospel to the masses unopposed hiding behind the cloak of "intolerance" and "bigotry" of others, The Gospel of Jesus Christ should be getting equal time. And if Christians do not get equal time, then we should be all demanding neutrality, which brings us back to the REAL meaning of tolerance.

So based on the above, you can keep calling us intolerant bigots but that has little meaning and is just a chant. If you were tolerant in the real sense of the word, you could call the Christian response to the homosexual agenda as reactionary. And Christians would be correct and tolerant in calling the radical homosexual agenda an insurgency.

redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-29   13:16:42 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#286. To: redleghunter (#284)

I'm not here to educate you, asswipe. Save your tedious cut-and-pastes for someone else.

For someone who professes (I'd imagine) to love the truth, you sure don't recognize it when it's right in your face, lol.

Biff Tannen  posted on  2012-06-29   13:28:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#288. To: Biff Tannen (#286)

Save your tedious cut-and-pastes for someone else.

The point applies to your line of thinking. Perhaps you could respond to what I posted instead of continuing to plow through a manure truck with your language.

redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-29   13:33:26 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#289. To: redleghunter (#288)

I tried to wade through that a couple of times. Too many words.

Narrow it down to a couple of sentences, why don't you.

This business of ignoring each others posts so we can get our own thoughts in isn't very interesting to me, you know.

Biff Tannen  posted on  2012-06-29   13:41:46 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#303. To: Biff Tannen (#289)

I tried to wade through that a couple of times. Too many words.

Narrow it down to a couple of sentences, why don't you.

I will take that as you don't care to read posts other than your own. Maybe I need to post a few more comics instead.

redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-29   14:00:03 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#328. To: redleghunter (#303)

Heading out for a weekend in the woods (without internet!!)

See ya!

Try posting something original, I'll try and read it when I get back.

Biff Tannen  posted on  2012-06-29   15:03:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 328.

#329. To: Biff Tannen (#328) (Edited)

Heading out for a weekend in the woods (without internet!!)

See ya!

REMINDER:

It's left foot...THEN your right....left....THEN AGAIN your right foot. And don't try to over-think this!!

I made sure this was a two-sentence instruction so I guess it's 50-50 you'll survive.

Liberator  posted on  2012-06-29 15:08:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#334. To: Biff Tannen (#328)

Heading out for a weekend in the woods (without internet!!)

See ya!

Try posting something original, I'll try and read it when I get back.

Watch out for those manure trucks Biff:) And what I posted was a redleghunter original. Still at two lines! Enjoy the woods and stay away from any livestock.

redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-29 15:17:26 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 328.

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