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Title: Rapture Believers Headed for the Great FALLING AWAY, NOT the Great Flying Away, The TRUE IDENTITY of the Antichrist Direct From Revelation 13
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Published: May 23, 2012
Author: Coral Snake - Bible Verses from the King
Post Date: 2012-05-23 00:59:06 by Coral Snake
Keywords: Revelation13, Antichrist, Rapture, Fake, SatansMark
Views: 20167
Comments: 58
Rapture Believers Headed for the Great FALLING AWAY, NOT the Great Flying Away, The TRUE IDENTITY of the Antichrist Direct From Revelation 13 By Coral Snake Of all the cults in the world probably the WORST of them holds in its thrall most most churches calling themselves Bible Believing, largely because they do not offer Bible study in an depth chapter by chapter and verse by verse method. This is the cult of the Rapture regardless of the part of the Great Tribulation Period they might believe that it comes in. The Rapture as a doctrine basically started in the 1830s in response to the "visions" of a mentally ill woman by the name of Mergret McDonald in Scotland. These visions caught the attention of a minister by the name of John Nelson Darby who spread the doctrine through a denomination of his own called the Catholic Apistolic Church because he attached it to Jesuit Writings relating to a future Antichrist as a flesh man. The Rapture doctrine was spread in America to virtually every church claiming to believe the King James Bible through a version of it called the Schofield Reference Bible basically put out by the Kenites (more on Kenites in later studies in this series) using me Schofield as a front. (As we will see further on in this article the Antichrist is in the future but he will NOT be a flesh man as claimed by Rapture pushers. Indeed the New World Order will rule the majority of the Tribulation Period WITHOUT their Antichrist leader who will put in his appearance in THE LAST FIVE MONTHS of the period. The rest of this article will be in the form of a chapter and verse Bible study that will show the reader: 1. Why the belief in the Rapture will lead the majority of Bible Believers who do not read and study what they claim to believe TO THE ANTICHRIST in these End Times. 2. The TRUE IDENTITY of the Antichrist. 3. Why he will rule only the LAST FIVE MONTHS of the Great Tribulation Period and not the whole of it as the Pre Trib Rapturists teach or in one half of it as the Mid and Post Tribbers teach. The Bible study part of this article will be the most familiar of all chapters in the Bible concerning the Antichrist, Revelation 13. Virtually all people who authored pro Raptrue "prophesy books" include parts of this chapter above all others in the Bible but basically gloss over it missing the meat of it entirely for this chapter IDENTIFIES FULLY AND COMPLETELY the identity of the Antichrist beyond any shadow of a doubt. Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon the horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. Rapture pushers promote the idea that this beast is the Antichrist. IT IS NOT. Rather it is the political, religious, economic and educvational system commonly refered to as the New World Order. Revelation 13:2 And the beast I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear. and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon have him his power, and his seat, and great authority. As we will see later when we study the book of Daniel this beast is a conglomerate of the four beasts in the Prophet Daniel's prophetic dream concerning the various "New World Order" empires that would rule the world between that dream and the Second Coming of Yashhua Messiah (Jesus Christ in English). We also see that the DEVIL (the Dragon) gave these "New World Orders" their power and authority. Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. This indicates that no matter how the conspirators behind the "New World Order" may try they will not be able to build a full powered one world government on their own. This is the "fatal wound" in the one world system of government that will be healed in only one way, the Personal appearamce of Antichrist. The inability to get "gun control" passed in the United States is one of many current examples of this deadly wound in flesh man made One Worldism. Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? Who is able to make war with him? The Antichrist has created a complete One World System at this point but HAS NOT YET BEEN REVEALED to the physical world. There is a little hint of his identity here for those who have the eyes to see and ears to hear to pick it up. I will not be revealing it at this time. If you have eyes to see and ears to hear it is YOUR responsibility to find it at this point. Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and power was given unto him to continue fourty and two months. This fourty two months represents the total rule of the New Wolrd Order both with and without the Antichrist. Revelation 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God to blaspheme his name and tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. This still refers to the new world order WITHOUT the actual presense of the Antichrist as do all Revelation verses refering to the first beast that appears. The first beast is the POLITICAL SYSTEM that the Kenites (more on this in a later study) create for the Antichrist to eventually rule over. Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints and overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues and nations. One should see by this verse that the Rapture doctrine is a FRAUD. The saints is ALWAYS a plural term for the BODY OF CHRIST / THE CHURCH in the Bible. It clearly shows that the saints are ON THE EARTH during the rule of the New World Order including the part of it ruled over by the Antichrist. Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Now you may start thinking that this first beast was the Antichrist after all since the population is worshipping it. However worshipping a POLITICAL SYSTEM in place of a diety is quite common amongst people in the collectvist or as we usually say today the Leftist or "Progressive" branch of politics who make the STATE their idol. This verse should be considered as a final condemnation of STATE WORSHIP before the actual appearance to the Antichrist to personify that One World State being worshipped. Revelation 13:9 If any man hath an ear, let him hear. This means pay strict attention now. The deadly wound in the first beast has actually occured and the ANTICHRIST is about to be revealed fully and completely for ALL to see who he is. Revelation 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience of the saints. The deadly wound has occured. The new world order that has persecuted the saints (the Church)and the formerly free nations in the world with USURY, EXCESSIVE TAXATION, FALSE TEACHING, FALSE IMPRISONMENT, VIOLATION OF RIGHTS and RIDICULE and God with BLASPHEMY and REJECTION appears to meet its comeuppance here but as Revelation 13: 3 has alreqady shown this deadly wound will be HEALED, the appearance of the Antichrist in the LAST five of the forty two month New Wolrd Order will in fact be that healing. Revelation 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. This is the verse we were all waiting for. The Antichrist has now been revealed PUBLICALLY and his Identy should be clear for all to see as SATAN THE DEVIL (the Dragon or Serpent) pretending to be JESUS / YASHUAH (the Lamb). This is why most people believing in the Rapture doctrine will be a part of a great FALLING away rather than the great FLYING away they will expect. The Rapture doctrine believers believe that Jesus will come to fly them away before ANY direct Satanic manefistations on earth that are tied to the Antichrist identity. They therefore will follow after THE FIRST supernatural spirit being to put in an appearance on earth and that this being is not Jesus but this second beast of Revelation SATAN THE DEVIL HIMSELF as an INSTEAD OF (the meaning of Anti in the term Antichrist) Christ. Revelation 13:12 And he excersisethall of the power of the first beast before him and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast whose deadly wound was healed. In this verse the Antichrist, SATAN THE DEVIL HIMSELF will promote worship of the new world order which he now personifies as a condition of being chosen to "fly away" with him. Most biblically illiterate Christians who actually faught the New World Order up until this time will now fall for it and EMBRACE it because they see it being ruled by "Jesus Christ" rather than the former satanic forces (The Kenites) that created it. This is because of the "fly away" rapture doctrine that teaches that the Antichrist is a human dictator possessed by Satan much like a Hitler or a Stalin who will be revealed AFTER they "fly away" and not a supernatural spiritual being SATAN HIMSELF as this chapter of Revelation really teaches. Revelation 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. No flesh and blood human, even possessed by the devil himself can do such things as this. This is another verse identifying the antichrist, the second beast of Revelation as SATAN THE DEVIL HIMSELF as only a SUPERNATURAL SPIRIT BEING is capable of performing supernatural wonders. Revelation 13:14 And he decieveth them that dwell on the earth by means of those miracles which he hath the power to to in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth that should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by the sword and did live. Yet for the third time we are given the identity of the Antichrist beyond any shadow of a doubt as a supernatural being capable of perforning supernatural miracles, SATAN THE DEVIL HIMSELF. This is so emphisized in this chapter because it is THE MOST IMPORTANT THING a Christian reader is to learn from it. The image or idol mentioned in this verse even though it will be TO the first beast, (the new world order political / religious / economic / educational system) will probably be OF the Second Beast (Satan the Devil / The Antichrist) who now personifies the system represented by the first beast. Revelation 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. Most people think that this means that some kind of horrible Hitler or Stalin like genocide of flesh and blood Christians is going to occur at this time. Once again they are in IGNORANCE of what is actually being taught in this chapter. The Antichrist is not coming as a Hitler or a Stalin, he is coming as a FAKE JESUS CHRIST playing the roll of Jesus as taught in the "fly away" rapture doctrine. This verse only shows that one of the powers that he will claim for this purpose is the power to damn people who don't worship him to HELL, the second, eternal and final death of Revelation 19 and 20. This hellfire doctrine is used by Satan the Devil THE ONLY ONE SENTENCED TO GO THERE AS OF THIS TIME to get the remaining true Christians on the earth at this time who will NOT fall for the "fly away" rapture doctrine to worship him. Another thing we must take from this verse along with Revelation 19 and 20 is that Hell is NOT the place of eternal burning torture that most fundamentalists preach. It is simply the final and eternal "boot hill" or cemetary of the most icorragabley wicked anongst us that die the second and eternal death with their boots of rebellion on. Those who do NOT worship the beast will not die however. They will simply be delivered up to the false Elder Councils of the One World State/Church that the DEVIL as the Antichrist sets up to be FALSELY sentenced to hell unless they worship the DEVIL in his false Christ roll. Instead of worshipping them they will again speak the Tounge of Pentecost day which is not the Pentecostal gobbledy gook called "speaking in tongues" now but the True Tongue of Pentecost Day which every person will understand in their own language. This was the tongue of Acts Chapter 2 and probably the tongue we had before the confusion of languages at the Tower of Babel. These elect persons who will not bow the knee to Baal in his false Christ roll will actually have the Holy Spirit speaking through them in this tongue just as happened in acts chapter 2 and will not be speaking or even be premeditating what they will say but will wait on the Holy Spirit to give them the words just as happened in Acts Chapter 2. This event actually moves many people away from the Antichrist and begins the end of his reign. Revelation 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in the right hand or in their foreheads: This and the verse that follows are in all probability the most well known verses in the book of Revelation. Many FALSE prophesy teachers have made big bucks out of presenting this mark as some kind of real mark such as a tattoo or a mark left by the injection of some kind of "mark of the beast" microchip in their right hands or foreheads. The true meaning of this lies in simply understanding wnat is IN your forehead. It happens to be this gray semi solid thingy known as YOUR BRAIN. To have the "mark of the beast" is to have WORSHIP OF SATAN AS INSTEAD OF (Anti's real meaning) CHRIST IMPLANTED IN YOUR BRAIN through false doctrines like the "fly awaqy" rapture doctrine or the eternal torture hellfire doctrine. To have the "mark of the beast" in the right hand (which is the power hand) means to do the WORKS of Satan in promoting false doctrines that lead to Satan worship when he comes as Antichrist such as tithing to or promoting the money making social events of a church that teaches such doctrines. Revelation 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. The meaning of this verse is that Satan is going to abandon the current Debt / Usury system set up by his Kenites and set up a system that will appear to be more fair. Many FALSE prophesy teachers that this will probably be based on credits tied to in implanted microchip in the body located at the locations mentioned for the "mark of the beast" (right hand or power hand and forehead). Many say that this will be based on gold but there is not enough gold in existance in this Earth Age for even Satan the Devil to provide enough of it for a monetary system. Rather I think Satan will base his new money on a perversion of the Social Credit system which will reward people world state dividends in return for their worship and it will probably be cash money (paper or plastic notes and base metallic coins) just like today's national currencies. However this money system will be the end times part of the "mark of the beast" in the hand. It will be doing and promoting SATAN'S WORKS in the end times. This is why people will not be able to buy or sell unless the have the mark in the hand. not because they did not receive a microship injection or a tatoo. SATAN'S MONEY NO MATTER WHAT FORM IT TAKES EVEN IF IT STAYS IN TRADITIONAL CASH FOR IS THE MARK IN THE HAND OF THE END TIMES!!! Revelation 13:18 Here is Wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is six hundred threescore and six. This is the final verse of the chapter. The most important word here is COUNT. the deeper meaning of this word is to count with counting stones that have been worn round with age and actually indicates that this mark or number has existed since the beginning of of our current Earth Age (the second) and is not simply a new mark that arrives with the Antichrist. In future studies we will be "counting" the Number of the Beast with the counting stones to see the man the Number of the Beast is actually the number of. But I will tell you right here that this counting will lead ultimately to CAIN, the first murderer of the Cain and Able account in Genesis and the father of the Kenite peoples behind the "New World Order". I pray to the Father Yahovah in the name of his son Yashuah Massiah (known in English as Jesus Christ) that you have enjoyed the first in my series of in depth Bible studies. Our next study will be on the Parable of the Fig Tree and the Parable of the Sower that Yashuah taught during his earthly ministry. These two parables are very important "counting stones" for the last verse of Revelation 13 and Yashuah particularly emphisized the importance of one of them when he told us in no uncertain terms LEARN THE PARABLE OF THE FIG TREE. Until the next time Amen.
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#19. To: hondo68, coral snake (#17)
Go back and read what he said in the article. He does deny hell. I also know from other conversations that the snake doesn't believe in hell. I don't understand how someone can believe the Bible but rip parts of it out. I will add this. I like coral snake.
From where did you get your interpretation of the Holy Bible?
Exactly right. Unfortunately, this rapture nonsense spread through America on the back of the Pentecostal movement in the early 20th century. Later, the Baptists picked it up too. The Bible says that there will be a second coming of Christ, NOT a second and third coming. John Nelson Darby is also responsible for the heretical dispensationalist movement, that has infected large parts of American Christianity. It's truly amazing how one man has been able to lead so many believers away from the truth.
#15. To: whyofcourse (#12) I would like to envite you to study with Pastor Arnold Murrey if you have Satalite television or High Speed Internet. He is the Bible teacher I picked up these doctrines from and is the only one I found on Television or the internet that does genuine in depth Chapter By Chapter and Verse By Verse studies in the King James Bible. Pastor Murrey also uses and sells the tools I reccomended to Stone in his Bible studies. (The Companion Bible, The Strong's Concordance and the Green's Interlinier Bible. Coral Snake posted on 2012-04-19 Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice.
Actually two separate Greek words are translated as Anti. One means against and that is the one you are showing me here. The other means INSTEAD OF. The Antichrist or Second Beast of Revelation 13 is the INSTEAD OF Christ. As for Hell as I said before in a thread that you locked I did return to believing in it but as it is discribed in the original Hebrew and Greek texts and indeed even in the King James English that you take to be the true Bible as the SECOND DEATH or the DEATH OF THE SOUL. Revelation 20:11 Revelation 20:12 Revelation 20:13 Revelation 20:14 Revelation 20:15 You should be able to see in this account of the Great White Throne Judgement that hell is NOT a place of eternal torture but is a Second and Final DEATH of the souls that continued their sinful rebellion against God to this time.
I'm a student of Pastors Arnold, Dennis And David Murrey and the Shepherd's Chapel. I get these interpretations through their satalite television Bible Studies and the tools they reccomend for bible study. The Strong's Concordance for translation back to the original Hebrew and Greek and the Companion Bible in the King James Version which also does a good job of translating back to the Hebrew and Greek even to the various idiums and figures of speech used at the time in its study collums.
The Last Five Months of the Tribulation Period as the time of the direct rule of the Antichrist (also known as the period of the three woes) is found in revelation 9. Revelation 9:1 Revelation 9:2 Revelation 9:3 Revelation 9:4 Revelation 9:5 Revelation 9:6 Revelation 9:7 Revelation 9:8 Revelation 9:9 Revelation 9:10 Revelation 9:11 Revelation 9:12 If you wonder why I give so much scripture in my answeres. It is because deep Bible study can NOT be done on the "one verse charlie" style of modern sermons. You Must teach the SUBJECT and the OBJECT of the topic being asked about. The object of your question was the reduction of the personal rule of the antichrist form three and one half years to five months. However the SUBJECT of which this is a part is the beginning of the three woes (the five month period) as described here in Revelation 9. This first woe is basically another prophetic account of Satan the Devil coming as the antichrist to earth in the last five months of the Tribulation period. The names Angel of the Bottomless Pit, Abaddon (means destroyer in Hebrew) and Appollyon (means destroyer in Greek) are all names for Satan the Devil and the Locust/Scorpions are basically his army of fallen angels now embodied and no longer spirit "demons" who are also released for eventual judgement in the last five months of the Tribulation period. The chapter makes it quite clear exactly how long Satan and his fallen angels have to torment people, five months, the last five months of the Tribulation Period.
Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and i saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key to the bottomless pit. Uh. It doesn't say five months there. You are a really confused guy.
Ok. Which thread did I lock. Was I wrong to lock it. Link me to it and I'll probably open it up.
I disagree with you there my friend. Someone who has more time then me can maybe point out the verses that are relevant. Do you speak greek? If not do you think someone can deceive you by saying the Bible isn't translated properly? Didn't God say he would translate his word into many or all tongues? Don't you trust God at his word to do that?
Let me get through the thread a bit and will get back.
As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)
Coral, I am having a hard time getting through "your" article. Why? Because putting it nicely it is inaccurate and the paragraph above is an amalgamation of 19th and 20th century urban legends and back then they did not have snopes. I know a bit about Darby and he was not a part of nor ever a member or founder of "Catholic Apistolic Church." There was at the time no such assembly or church. Darby was with the established Church of Ireland before starting a home church. Later as the home churches grew, most were labeled Plymouth Brethren. Darby never received any visions or based his version of dispensationalism on any visions of other people. To be clear, as an early Evangelical Darby believed that all inspiration comes from Scripture and not personal revelation as you see in the "snake taming" fraud churches today that CALL themselves evangelical. So based on your initial presentation of "facts" I say you have a lot to learn about John Nelson Darby, Evangelicals of the time (which were VERY conservative) and dispensationalism. Dispensationalism, as those who adhere to it will tell you, is a theory and the majority of dispensationalists do not break fellowship with those that disagree with them. On the discussions of anti-christ how you attribute a fixation of pinning 'who the anti-christ is', Darby spent no time speculating on this. He was a Biblical literalist, plain interpretation. I think your article has taken multiple urban legends and wrapped it up in a nice conspiracy theory.
As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)
Coral, interesting theory, but it is pure bunk. Why? Because those who are in Christ hear the Shepherd's Voice: John Chapter 10: 15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.(NKJV) Jesus Christ WILL Come Again, and those who are His sheep will KNOW HIM. You are making great strides to create a "rapture cult straw man" that if such people exist, then they don't literally, plainly, interpret Scriptures. We are all told to watch and be ready. Beyond that, we are all presenting theories no one should be declaring as dogmatic. You present a theory above, and as long as a person's soteriology, the doctrine of salvation and your christology are Biblically sound then we are to remain in fellowship. All you are doing with this article is creating a division in the Body of Christ, His Church. There are faithful true believers on all sides of the end times debate. Why argue over it? I think it is fine to study eschatology and even debate it, but it should not cause rifts in the Body of Christ. We are told by Jesus Christ and later Paul that we are to watch and be ready. And we do that by living the lives Christ commands us to live as filled with the Holy Spirit. Finally, you should do a bit of research on the actual works of Darby, Scofield, Ironside and Ryrie before throwing up urban legends about them. It is interesting to note that after reading Scofield's book on dispensationalism, I found neither references to the rapture nor anti-christ.
As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)
Revelation 19 and 20 blows this theory away: Revelation 19: 19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.(NKJV) We see the beast and false prophet thrown into the lake of fire. In Revelation 20 we see the fate of Satan as such: 1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.(NKJV) Beast, false prophet and Satan are identified independently. That is why when I study prophecy, I use the "backwards" method. Meaning I start with Revelation 22 and work my way back. CERTAIN events are clear and as you go further back towards the beginning of Revelation some things are not so clear.
As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)
I am still trying to figure out how Darby and Scofield are being used as forerunners for the ludicrous "fly away" strawman created by this article. Nowhere in any of their writings do they establish the anti-christ would be a Stalin or Hitler. In fact anti-christ means just that and I agree by the Scriptures presented "he" will present "himself" as a savior. But that false "savior" cannot be powerful without having the machinations of political power.
As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)
Glad you beat me to this comment. The "fly away" strawman presented at the introduction (BTW an inaccurate and false depiction of dispensationalism) is "cursed" for straying from Scriptures. Yet our author proceeds to do what he claims the strawman is doing. Pretty twisted.
As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)
IMO, he's not denying hell, but the fake hell of the antichrist. He's off to a good start by condemning the heretic Darby. Explain how Darby was a heretic?
As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)
Unfortunately, this rapture nonsense spread through America on the back of the Pentecostal movement in the early 20th century. Later, the Baptists picked it up too. The Bible says that there will be a second coming of Christ, NOT a second and third coming. John Nelson Darby is also responsible for the heretical dispensationalist movement, that has infected large parts of American Christianity. It's truly amazing how one man has been able to lead so many believers away from the truth. I am still waiting for someone to clearly state what exactly of Darby's writings and dispensationalism are heretical? What did Darby say different about the Nature of Jesus Christ and Salvation that differs from a Calvinist or Evangelical? Sir, you use "heretic" quite boldly. I await you to substantiate your bold comments.
As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)
There seems to be a problem with your mentors. Shepherd's Chapel http://www.watchman.org/profile/murraypro.htm
As for Hell as I said before in a thread that you locked I did return to believing in it but as it is discribed in the original Hebrew and Greek texts and indeed even in the King James English that you take to be the true Bible as the SECOND DEATH or the DEATH OF THE SOUL. If you put what you posted from Revelation chapter 20 within context of chapter 19, 21, and 22 you will see the error of making this conclusion.
As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)
Do you speak greek? If not do you think someone can deceive you by saying the Bible isn't translated properly? Didn't God say he would translate his word into many or all tongues? Don't you trust God at his word to do that? Stone, the contect of your question above was about a real hell. I posted below a great piece from CARM on the subject. Bottom line up front? Jesus Christ stated in Matthew 18:8 the following: 8 If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the everlasting fire.(NKJV) Key word here is "everlasting fire." It is everlasting, not momentary. Evokes the question: if it is everlasting then what is it burning if all the souls are destroyed in one day? And in Matthew 25:45-46 we see this: 45 Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."(NKJV) Here we see Jesus Christ say "everlasting punishment" for the unsaved. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)
Shepherd's Chapel http://www.watchman.org/profile/murraypro.htm Don, thanks. Now we do have a heresy in the information below. It is called modalism. A way far cry from calling Darby a heretic! Trinity Murray and his followers deny the biblical doctrine of the Trinity, that one God exists eternally in three Persons. They instead teach modalism, the concept that the monotheistic God is a single person who acts through three different offices.10 Murray voices his adherence to this teaching when he says that God "gots (sic) three offices he serves."11 He elaborates: You have these yo-yo's that will say, 'Well, I want you to think like (sic) of water and ice' and so on, various gases or so forth, or then they'll say, 'I want you to think of a 200 watt bulb, and a 150 watt bulb, and a 50 watt bulb.' Well, they're all the same wattage, friend. So why not just simplify it instead of playing stupid games, and understand that there are three offices of the Godhead. Like this little lady said. She said, 'To my husband I am a wife, to my children I am a mother, that's my office. To hundreds of third graders I am their teacher and have been down through the years. That's a different office; none of them the same, but I'm still the same person.' I like that. It's simple and to the point.12 Notice the implication of the example quoted by Murray. Just as the "little lady" is one woman who performs different functions in her roles as wife, mother, and teacher, so God is a single person who performs different functions and is perceived in different ways in his roles as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Murray clarifies his conflation of deity when he states, "[Christ's] spirit is holy and he is the Holy Spirit."13 Since Murray does not believe that Jesus Christ is a Person distinct from the other members of the Trinity, he cannot justifiably claim to believe that Jesus Christ is the eternal Son of God. Oropeza accurately observes that it is thus inconsistent for Murray to promote such a teaching and to also say, "A wise man never discusses the Trinity."14
As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)
Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice.
But now the plot thickens. About the same time, an Irvingite evangelist named Robert Norton met a little Scottish girl named Margaret Macdonald who supposedly had a vision of the church being secretly raptured. Norton was so charmed by the idea that he preached her "vision" all over England. John Darby, founder of the Plymouth Brethren, became interested in this new doctrine so he attended several Irvingite meetings. In his letters Darby states that he had "come to an understanding of this new truth" and made no secret of the fact that he had been influenced by de Lacunza's writings. Darby, however, wasn't satisfied with the rather simplistic Lacunza-Irving 45-day tribulation idea, so he devised a more complex scheme. Darby thought the last week of Daniel's 70 weeks (Dan 9:24-27) was still unfulfilled so he theorized that the 70th week might actually be a future seven-year-tribulation that would take place at the end of the Christian Era. To make his idea fit world history, he also invented a 2000 year gap between Daniel's 69th and 70th weeks. It was all guesswork theology, but there you have it, the true origin of the seven-year tribulation and pre-trib rapture doctrines! Nice hit piece hondo, but full of holes. Darby never attended anything called "Irvingite meetings." Ellis Skolfield should have noted that the "meeting in question" was the one of the conferences on biblical prophecy at Powerscourt House (the home of Lady Powerscourt) and various other localities in County Wicklow from 1830 to 1840. MANY denominations sent representatives to this conference and succeeding conferences. So, I guess (since you have not stated), you adhere to linear historic view that Revelation is in the process of being fulfilled throughout the Christian Era? If so, show me how, since some or most or all has been fulfilled according to Ellis Skofield's statement. Or did you just pick Ellis Skofield because it was a hit piece on Darby easily accessed on the internet? Because if you do believe Skofield, then you know he peddles his own eschatology theory of a Muslim false prophet. Now after all that, I have to say Ellis Skofield never read the source material of Darby or any dispensationalist. Why? Because he mentions Darby touting a 2000 year "gap" between week 6 and 7 of Daniel chapter 9. Nowhere in Darby's writings does he make a 2000 year gap. No dispensationalist has EVER put a timeline on the Second Coming of Christ.
As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)
I asked this of pastors for months. Not a single one can cite a single church that held futurist doctrine prior to a portion of the Plymouth Bretheren, and then not until the late 1800s and on into the 20th century protestant church, thanks to C.I. Scofield. The above is from Ellis Skolfield's website. A very dangerous proposition I dare say. One could say "before Luther or Calvin how many churches' doctrine held that salvation is by Grace through faith..."
As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)
Revelation 9:5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion when he striketh a man. Revelation 9:10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and their were stings in their tails; and their power was to hurt men five months. Here are the specific verses of Revelation 9 mentioning the five month period.
It was the one about Batman or some other DC Comic hero being turned into a SODOMITE (queer, fudge packer) by the Kenite masters of Time Werner inc. that was locked.
From a couple of days ago. I didn't lock that. I'll go find it.
This very post shows the CLASSIC problem with dispensational "fly away" and "eternal torture" preachers and teachers. They rip a single verse out of a chapter of the Bible to start a sermon, then spend an hour talking about themselves, begging for money and deliniating a rather lengthy list of things you will get eternal torture for most of which (including the afore mentioned eternal torture) is not in the Bible in the first place. This is called "one verse charlie" preaching by the Murreys at Shepherd's Chapel. To truely teach GOD'S word you have to let the BIBLE ITSELF be most of your sermon by teaching it in a chapter by chapter and verse by verse fashion with the part that is your own sermon being comentary directly on the chapter and verse being taught and not a bunch of self promoting, money begging, eternal torture drivel.
I do remember seeing that it was locked when I was trying to edit a post to it. Maybe I just timed out the edit function for that particular post and it was the EDIT FUNCTION that was locked and not the thread itself.
Sir, you use "heretic" quite boldly. I await you to substantiate your bold comments. Dispensationalists believe that God is pursuing two programs -- one for an earthly people (the Jews), the other for a heavenly people (the church). Dispensationalists believe that in the Old Testament God promised the Jewish people an earthly kingdom ruled by Messiah ben David, and that when Christ came He offered this prophesied kingdom to the Jews. When the Jews of the time rejected Christ and the earthly kingdom, the promise was postponed, and the “mystery form” of the kingdom – the church – was established. The church, according to dispensational doctrine, was unforeseen in the Old Testament and constitutes a “parenthesis” in God’s plan for Israel. In the future, the distinction between Jew and Gentile will be reestablished and will continue throughout all eternity. Christ made it clear it clear that there is no earthly kingdom: My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. Paul also made it clear that the when the Jews rejected Christ, the Church became Israel. All references to "Israel" in the "last days" are references to the Church. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. This is what Christians have believed for 2,000 years. Unfortunately, American Christians are being led astray by these crackpot evangelicals and their dispensationalist heresies. Dispensationalism is also the source of evangelicals' unthinking and unquestioning support for the nation of Israel, regardless of what they do.
If you think I am doing a jigsaw puzzle of verses, then please show where Jesus Christ tells us in the Gospel's there is no eternal punishment. If you look at the entire chapters of Matthew 24 and 25 what I posted is in context.
As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)
What you posted above is what those opposed to dispensationalism tout. It is incorrect. Clearly, you should actually read what was stated and not rely entirely on what opponents say. Nowhere do dispensationalists say there are two ways to salvation. Only one way through Jesus Christ. And Paul never stated that the Church is now the new Israel. He does make a distinction and also stated God can re-graft the vine. Dispensationals in a nutshell say God is not finished with Israel. There will be a remnant in end times and this remnant will be faithful to Jesus Christ--- By Grace through Faith, NOT Mosaic. I think you misread the earthly Kingdom comment. Christ will reign 1000 years after His Second Coming. It is clearly in Revelation and you would be hard pressed to prove it has already happened.
As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)
And to them it was given that they should not kill them but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion when he striketh a man. Revelation 9:10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and their were stings in their tails; and their power was to hurt men five months. Here are the specific verses of Revelation 9 mentioning the five month period. Who is cherry picking verses now. You do realize there are other judgments after these?
As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)
Yes, I know that there are other judgements after this one. They result from the majority of the popuilation worshipping SATAN THE DEVIL thinking that he is Jesus come to fly them away. Satan will probably arrange for his little Kenites to even make the early part of the New World Order period into a Faux version of the Tribulation as the Dispensationalists teach it so that Satans play acting part of Jesus come to fly them away will look all the more realistic. The only way you will be able to know for certain if a supernatural being thaty has come to earth is Satan the Devil or is Yashua/Jesus is the body you will be in when he arrives on earth. If you are still in a mortal flesh and blood body it is SATAN THE DEVIL, If you are in an spiritual body like the one Yashua/Jesus has than it IS YASHUA/JESUS.
You do realize that most dispensationalists, especially the ones you mention, do not hold end times prophecy theory to be dogmatic? Let's narrow the "shot group" a bit by asking you this question. Will there be a 1000 year physical reign of Jesus Christ on Earth? In response to "how we will know" Jesus Christ when He comes??? The sheep hear the Sheperd's Voice and they know Him.
As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)
I expected this thread to continue. I guess interest was lost. What is your opinion? Is God finished with Israel? Do you see the Church as the new Israel in prophecy?
As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)
No.
Outstanding, the type of answer I try to get out of young Majors each day in the Army...a simple yes or no. Cheers my friend!
As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)
Here you go, been looking to send this to you. Enjoy: As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV)
IMO, he's not denying hell,
#20. To: Coral Snake (#0)
#21. To: Coral Snake (#0)
(Edited)
The Rapture as a doctrine basically started in the 1830s in response to the "visions" of a mentally ill woman by the name of Mergret McDonald in Scotland. These visions caught the attention of a minister by the name of John Nelson Darby
we must as a species go into a period of shrinkage that we have not experienced since the Dark Ages and the Black Plague -- loonymom
#22. To: Don (#20)
From where did you get your interpretation of the Holy Bible?
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#23. To: A K A Stone (#3)
And I Saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face earth and heaven fled away, and there was no place found for them.
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and every man was judged according to his works.
and death and hell were case into the lake of fire, This is the second death.
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. 
The FARO RESERVE BANK!!! 
#24. To: Don (#20)
The FARO RESERVE BANK!!!
#25. To: A K A Stone (#6)
(Edited)
And the fifth angel sounded, and i saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key to the bottomless pit.
And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke.
And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
And it was commanded that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal og God in their foreheads.
And to them it was given that they should not kill them but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion when he striketh a man.
And in those days shall men seek death and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were the faces of men.
And they hd hair as the hair of a woman, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
And they had breastlates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
And they had tails like unto scorpions, and their were stings in their tails; and their power was to hurt men five months.
And they had a king over them which is the angel of the bottomless pit whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon but in the Greek tongue hath his name Appollyon.
One woe is past and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter. The FARO RESERVE BANK!!!
#26. To: Coral Snake (#25)
The Last Five Months of the Tribulation Period as the time of the direct rule of the Antichrist (also known as the period of the three woes) is found in revelation 9.
#27. To: Coral Snake (#23)
As for Hell as I said before in a thread that you locked I did return to believing in it
#28. To: Coral Snake, Don, redleghunter, SJN (#23)
You should be able to see in this account of the Great White Throne Judgement that hell is NOT a place of eternal torture but is a Second and Final DEATH
#29. To: A K A Stone (#28)
#30. To: Coral Snake, AKA Stone (#0)
The Rapture as a doctrine basically started in the 1830s in response to the "visions" of a mentally ill woman by the name of Mergret McDonald in Scotland. These visions caught the attention of a minister by the name of John Nelson Darby who spread the doctrine through a denomination of his own called the Catholic Apistolic Church because he attached it to Jesuit Writings relating to a future Antichrist as a flesh man. The Rapture doctrine was spread in America to virtually every church claiming to believe the King James Bible through a version of it called the Schofield Reference Bible basically put out by the Kenites (more on Kenites in later studies in this series) using me Schofield as a front. (As we will see further on in this article the Antichrist is in the future but he will NOT be a flesh man as claimed by Rapture pushers. Indeed the New World Order will rule the majority of the Tribulation Period WITHOUT their Antichrist leader who will put in his appearance in THE LAST FIVE MONTHS of the period.
#31. To: Coral Snake, A K A Stone (#0)
This is the verse we were all waiting for. The Antichrist has now been revealed PUBLICALLY and his Identy should be clear for all to see as SATAN THE DEVIL (the Dragon or Serpent) pretending to be JESUS / YASHUAH (the Lamb). This is why most people believing in the Rapture doctrine will be a part of a great FALLING away rather than the great FLYING away they will expect. The Rapture doctrine believers believe that Jesus will come to fly them away before ANY direct Satanic manefistations on earth that are tied to the Antichrist identity. They therefore will follow after THE FIRST supernatural spirit being to put in an appearance on earth and that this being is not Jesus but this second beast of Revelation SATAN THE DEVIL HIMSELF as an INSTEAD OF (the meaning of Anti in the term Antichrist) Christ.
#32. To: Coral Snake, A K A Stone (#0)
No flesh and blood human, even possessed by the devil himself can do such things as this. This is another verse identifying the antichrist, the second beast of Revelation as SATAN THE DEVIL HIMSELF as only a SUPERNATURAL SPIRIT BEING is capable of performing supernatural wonders.
#33. To: A K A Stone (#10)
The Antichrist is not coming as a Hitler or a Stalin, he is coming as a FAKE JESUS CHRIST playing the roll of Jesus You are onto something there. All of my comments aren't negative towards your view.
#34. To: A K A Stone (#11)
You take all kinds of stuff out of it. Just like that warning at the end of book of revelation warns us about.
#35. To: hondo68 (#17)
What did CS rip out of the Bible, he's not like Darby and the rapture monkeys who rip it to shreds and try to rearrange the pieces?
#36. To: jwpegler (#21)
Exactly right.
#37. To: Coral Snake (#24)
#38. To: Coral Snake, A K A Stone (#23)
Actually two separate Greek words are translated as Anti. One means against and that is the one you are showing me here. The other means INSTEAD OF. The Antichrist or Second Beast of Revelation 13 is the INSTEAD OF Christ.
#39. To: A K A Stone (#28)
I disagree with you there my friend. Someone who has more time then me can maybe point out the verses that are relevant.
#40. To: Don, A K A Stone (#37)
There seems to be a problem with your mentors.
#41. To: redleghunter (#35)
Explain how Darby was a heretic?
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#42. To: hondo68 (#41)
De Lacunza died in Imola in 1801 and that should have been the end of it. But after his death, Lacunza's views were taught in Spain. In 1812 his book was published in Spanish. Fourteen years later, it was translated into English by a radical cultist named Edward Irving. Lacunza's views could have died there, too, for most in England saw Irving as a heretic.
#43. To: hondo68 (#41)
If you attend a futurist Church simply ask your pastor, or the guy in charge of doctrine: "How many Churches held futurist doctrine prior to the Darby's Plymouth Bretheren"
#44. To: A K A Stone (#26)
The FARO RESERVE BANK!!!
#45. To: A K A Stone (#27)
The FARO RESERVE BANK!!!
#46. To: Coral Snake (#45)
It was the one about Batman or some other DC Comic hero being turned into a SODOMITE
#47. To: redleghunter (#39)
The FARO RESERVE BANK!!!
#48. To: A K A Stone (#46)
The FARO RESERVE BANK!!!
#49. To: redleghunter (#36)
(Edited)
I am still waiting for someone to clearly state what exactly of Darby's writings and dispensationalism are heretical? What did Darby say different about the Nature of Jesus Christ and Salvation that differs from a Calvinist or Evangelical?
we must as a species go into a period of shrinkage that we have not experienced since the Dark Ages and the Black Plague -- loonymom
#50. To: Coral Snake (#47)
They rip a single verse out of a chapter of the Bible to start a sermon, then spend an hour talking about themselves, begging for money and deliniating a rather lengthy list of things you will get eternal torture for most of which (including the afore mentioned eternal torture) is not in the Bible in the first place. This is called "one verse charlie" preaching by the Murreys at Shepherd's Chapel.
#51. To: jwpegler (#49)
Dispensationalists believe that God is pursuing two programs -- one for an earthly people (the Jews), the other for a heavenly people (the church). Dispensationalists believe that in the Old Testament God promised the Jewish people an earthly kingdom ruled by Messiah ben David, and that when Christ came He offered this prophesied kingdom to the Jews. When the Jews of the time rejected Christ and the earthly kingdom, the promise was postponed, and the “mystery form” of the kingdom – the church – was established.
#52. To: Coral Snake (#44)
Revelation 9:5
#53. To: redleghunter (#52)
The FARO RESERVE BANK!!!
#54. To: Coral Snake, A K A Stone (#53)
Yes, I know that there are other judgements after this one. They result from the majority of the popuilation worshipping SATAN THE DEVIL thinking that he is Jesus come to fly them away.
#55. To: A K A Stone (#54)
#56. To: redleghunter, Don, coral snake, SJN (#55)
Is God finished with Israel?
#57. To: A K A Stone (#56)
Is God finished with Israel? No.
#58. To: Coral Snake (#53)
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