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Title: Shortfall in California’s Budget Swells to $16 Billion (Moonbeam says Obama blocking budget cuts)
Source: Infowars/NY Times
URL Source: http://www.infowars.com/shortfall-i ... s-budget-swells-to-16-billion/
Published: May 13, 2012
Author: ADAM NAGOURNEY
Post Date: 2012-05-13 19:44:25 by Hondo68
Ping List: *The Two Parties ARE the Same*     Subscribe to *The Two Parties ARE the Same*
Keywords: new spending cuts, reductions to schools health c, illegal aliens & slut supplies
Views: 95646
Comments: 211

LOS ANGELES — The state budget shortfall in California has increased dramatically in the last six months, forcing state officials to assemble a series of new spending cuts that are likely to mean further reductions to schools, health care and other social programs already battered by nearly five years of budget retrenchment, state officials announced on Saturday.


Gov. Jerry Brown, disclosing the development in a video posted on YouTube, said that California’s shortfall was now projected to be $16 billion, up from $9.2 billion in January. Mr. Brown said that he would propose a revised budget on Monday to deal with it.

“We are now facing a $16 billion hole, not the $9 billion we thought in January,” Mr. Brown said. “This means we will have to go much further and make cuts far greater than I asked for at the beginning of the year.”

Mr. Brown disclosed the news in a video that had all the trappings of a campaign announcement. In it, he aggressively accounted for the steps he said he had taken to try to scale back a $26 billion deficit he found upon taking office. And he urged viewers to back an initiative he is putting on the November ballot that would increase sales taxes by 0.25 percent and impose an income tax surcharge on wealthy Californians to try to stave off more cuts.

Full article here


Poster Comment:

Barack 0'bush forced Arnold Moonbeam to spend like crazy, and regulate until business left the state. Such a sad story from the D&R party. parasites (1 image)

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#19. To: lucysmom, sneakypete (#15)

Especially with the productive taxpaying citizens leaving the state in droves while the state continues to not only support the parasites in style,but even invite more parasites in from foreign countries?

I suppose that makes you feel better in some twisted way, but it is totally delusional.

I suppose that makes you feel better in some twisted way, but it is totally delusional because............................?

We The People  posted on  2012-05-14   11:16:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: lucysmom (#18)

With manpower the agency?

No, Army manpower - gains, losses, promotions and all that. I did a stint in the Pentagon years ago.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2012-05-14   11:21:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: mcgowanjm (#6)

makes no sense because you DO care about USSA gov't spending and we spend in 5 hours on Israel and War what we spend in 5 years on our Health Care.

That's not Israel's fault. They would be foolish to not take the free money we give them.

It's our own fault and the fault of the politicians we elect for giving it to them. Not to mention Egypt,Africa,etc,etc,etc.

"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011

Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs

Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter.

sneakypete  posted on  2012-05-14   11:31:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: mcgowanjm (#8)

Our standard of living will approach that of the current 3rd World. This is inevitable now, its just a question of how long it will take to slide down and how the society will adjust to the new reality.

Sadly,I am in complete agreement with the above.

"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011

Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs

Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter.

sneakypete  posted on  2012-05-14   11:32:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Fred Mertz (#20)

No, Army manpower - gains, losses, promotions and all that. I did a stint in the Pentagon years ago.

That must have been an interesting job.

Anyone claiming to be an expert is selling something. I brandish my ignorance like a crucifix at vampires. Aaron Bady

lucysmom  posted on  2012-05-14   11:35:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: mcgowanjm, hondo68 (#13)

And you think that's military?

You are missing the point,which is that the SWAT and other jack-booted thugs with badges think THEY are the military. That's why these dweebs call us "civilians"

This misconception needs to be corrected immediately.

"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011

Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs

Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter.

sneakypete  posted on  2012-05-14   11:36:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: sneakypete (#21)

That's not Israel's fault. They would be foolish to not take the free money we give them.

I wonder how much money Israel spends lobbying for "free money".

Anyone claiming to be an expert is selling something. I brandish my ignorance like a crucifix at vampires. Aaron Bady

lucysmom  posted on  2012-05-14   11:37:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: lucysmom (#15)

I suppose that makes you feel better in some twisted way, but it is totally delusional.

Have you tried to explain this to my brother in San Jose,who has had government housing built across the street from his house that is filled with people who barely speak English or don't speak it at all?

I'm pretty sure he would be happy to talk with you about the level of violence,theft,and other crimes now happening in the neighborhood that he grew up in 50 years ago.

"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011

Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs

Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter.

sneakypete  posted on  2012-05-14   11:40:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: lucysmom (#17)

I put to you that we have nothing left to grow into now, and so we must as a species go into a period of shrinkage that we have not experienced since the Dark Ages and the Black Plaguei (sic). Like the original Dark Ages, I think this period will last near a Millenia, and who we are and how we come out of this at the end is anybody’s guess. Isn't that what the Mayan calender predicts?

PLEASE tell me you are kidding. This is out there. Even for you.

"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011

Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs

Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter.

sneakypete  posted on  2012-05-14   11:41:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: lucysmom (#25)

I wonder how much money Israel spends lobbying for "free money".

I don't know,but given all the dual citizenship people in this country that are prominent and have influence,I suspect they spend very little.

All they have to do anytime their gravy train is threatened is to play the "Anti- Semite/You Nazi!" card and things are all-well again.

"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011

Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs

Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter.

sneakypete  posted on  2012-05-14   11:49:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: lucysmom, sneakypete (#15)

sneakypete: Especially with the productive taxpaying citizens leaving the state in droves while the state continues to not only support the parasites in style,but even invite more parasites in from foreign countries?

Loonyming: I suppose that makes you feel better in some twisted way, but it is totally delusional.

Hardly. Sneaky is telling it like it is.

Keep 'brandishing your ignorance,' loon. Whenever I need a good laugh, I just look at your latest posts.


The economy is wonderful!
Re-elect Obama, he'll pay your rent!
A chicken in every pot!
-Baghdad Bri-bri-

LoonyMing: I brandish my ignorance like a crucifix at vampires.
Translation: IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

'It's now very common to hear people say, "I'm rather offended by that", as if that gives them certain rights. It's no more than a whine. It has no meaning, it has no purpose, it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. "I'm offended by that." Well, so fucking what?' —Stephen Fry

Capitalist Eric  posted on  2012-05-14   11:56:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: sneakypete (#26)

Have you tried to explain this to my brother in San Jose,who has had government housing built across the street from his house that is filled with people who barely speak English or don't speak it at all?

I'm pretty sure he would be happy to talk with you about the level of violence,theft,and other crimes now happening in the neighborhood that he grew up in 50 years ago.

If your brother thinks San Jose is bad

As of 2009, the city had the second lowest violent crime rate of any city with 500,000 or more residents, second only to Honolulu.[57] However in 2011, homicides have surged surpassing 2010's number of homicides which was 20 and in 2011 was 39.[61] Wikipedia

Anyone claiming to be an expert is selling something. I brandish my ignorance like a crucifix at vampires. Aaron Bady

lucysmom  posted on  2012-05-14   11:57:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: sneakypete (#27)

PLEASE tell me you are kidding. This is out there. Even for you.

You haven't heard about the Mayan calender predictions? I didn't make it up, I didn't even say I believed it.

Anyone claiming to be an expert is selling something. I brandish my ignorance like a crucifix at vampires. Aaron Bady

lucysmom  posted on  2012-05-14   12:00:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Capitalist Eric (#29)

Hardly. Sneaky is telling it like it is.

Your response to life is far to emotional to be rational.

Anyone claiming to be an expert is selling something. I brandish my ignorance like a crucifix at vampires. Aaron Bady

lucysmom  posted on  2012-05-14   12:04:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: lucysmom, Sneakypete (#30)

If your brother thinks San Jose is bad

I wonder who else Sneaky thinks will pick all that produce or cheaply clean the offices of the computer moguls.

Almost every country in the Middle East is awash in oil, and we have to side with the one that has nothing but joos. Goddamn, that was good thinkin'. Esso posted on 2012-01-13 7:37:56 ET

mininggold  posted on  2012-05-14   12:07:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: hondo68 (#0)

forcing state officials to assemble a series of new spending cuts that are likely to mean further reductions to schools, health care and other social programs

The first thing that they need to cut is the lavish pension programs for government bureaucrats.


Iran’s main drive for acquiring atomic weapons is not for use against Israel but as a deterrent against U.S. intervention -- Major General Zeevi Farkash, head of the Israeli Military Intelligence Directorate

jwpegler  posted on  2012-05-14   12:12:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: lucysmom (#30)

If your brother thinks San Jose is bad

Well,since it is the only place he has ever lived and that house is the one he grew up in,it's all he has to use for a reference point.

It sure ain't East St.Louis,though.

"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011

Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs

Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter.

sneakypete  posted on  2012-05-14   12:15:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: lucysmom (#31)

You haven't heard about the Mayan calender predictions?

Yeah,but I consider them to be HorseHillary from start to finish.

The calendars were and are pretty impressive.

I can't say that about the predictions,though. If they were worth a damn at predicting,they would have been waiting to ambush the Spanish on the beach when they landed.

"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011

Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs

Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter.

sneakypete  posted on  2012-05-14   12:18:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Fred Mertz (#16)

I should have been an economist where being wrong lots of times is the norm. I used to do forecasting years ago, with manpower, and we were pretty dang accurate.

Most big companies created annual budgets, do quarterly forecasts, and report on monthly actuals.

If the forecasts doesn't align with the budget or the actuals don't align with the forecast, companies do something about it (cut planned spending).

Companies don't wait two, three, or five years to do something about a problem.

The problem is that politicians don't like to cut spending, because this is how they buy votes to stay in power.


Iran’s main drive for acquiring atomic weapons is not for use against Israel but as a deterrent against U.S. intervention -- Major General Zeevi Farkash, head of the Israeli Military Intelligence Directorate

jwpegler  posted on  2012-05-14   12:19:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: mininggold (#33)

I wonder who else Sneaky thinks will pick all that produce or cheaply clean the offices of the computer moguls.

Welfare parasites once their "Free money" and housing are cut off.

Not to mention the three city workers you see leaning on shovels at city work projects while one guy with a shovel does all the work.

"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011

Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs

Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter.

sneakypete  posted on  2012-05-14   12:20:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: mininggold (#33)

I wonder who else Sneaky thinks will pick all that produce or cheaply clean the offices of the computer moguls.

Certainly not Americans, they won't work for wages that puts them in the food stamp line.

Anyone claiming to be an expert is selling something. I brandish my ignorance like a crucifix at vampires. Aaron Bady

lucysmom  posted on  2012-05-14   12:20:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: jwpegler (#37)

Companies don't wait two, three, or five years to do something about a problem.

Governments and companies exist for very different purposes.

Anyone claiming to be an expert is selling something. I brandish my ignorance like a crucifix at vampires. Aaron Bady

lucysmom  posted on  2012-05-14   12:22:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: sneakypete (#38)

Welfare parasites once their "Free money" and housing are cut off.

Not to mention the three city workers you see leaning on shovels at city work projects while one guy with a shovel does all the work.

Those free marketeers need to think a little further down the road then.

Your second statement indicates you need to get our more, and stop watching the Cartoon Network.

Almost every country in the Middle East is awash in oil, and we have to side with the one that has nothing but joos. Goddamn, that was good thinkin'. Esso posted on 2012-01-13 7:37:56 ET

mininggold  posted on  2012-05-14   12:23:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: sneakypete (#38)

Not to mention the three city workers you see leaning on shovels at city work projects while one guy with a shovel does all the work.

Not nearly as costly as the free marketeers that crashed the world economy and then claimed bonuses.

Anyone claiming to be an expert is selling something. I brandish my ignorance like a crucifix at vampires. Aaron Bady

lucysmom  posted on  2012-05-14   12:27:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: lucysmom (#40)

Governments and companies exist for very different purposes.

And the mixing of the two models has caused a lot of the problems we see now. Government depts were never meant to earn a profit. They were meant to supply a service.

Almost every country in the Middle East is awash in oil, and we have to side with the one that has nothing but joos. Goddamn, that was good thinkin'. Esso posted on 2012-01-13 7:37:56 ET

mininggold  posted on  2012-05-14   12:27:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: mcgowanjm (#6) (Edited)

we spend in 5 hours on Israel and War what we spend in 5 years on our Health Care.

You have your facts wrong, as usual.

Healthcare (Medicare, Medicaid, CHIP, FDA, etc) is the largest federal government expenditure. It's 25% of the federal budget this year. That doesn't even include what the States pay out in Medicaid.

Government pensions (Social Security and federal worker pensions) is the second largest budget item.

Defense is number 3.

Various welfare programs are number 4.


Iran’s main drive for acquiring atomic weapons is not for use against Israel but as a deterrent against U.S. intervention -- Major General Zeevi Farkash, head of the Israeli Military Intelligence Directorate

jwpegler  posted on  2012-05-14   12:28:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: sneakypete, lucysmom (#36)

You haven't heard about the Mayan calender predictions?

Yeah,but I consider them to be HorseHillary from start to finish.

The calendars were and are pretty impressive.

I can't say that about the predictions,though. If they were worth a damn at predicting,they would have been waiting to ambush the Spanish on the beach when they landed.

It's an astronomical calendar.

It doesn't actually predict any event that isn't astrnomical, other than the end of the calendar cycle.

We The People  posted on  2012-05-14   12:30:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: mininggold (#43)

And the mixing of the two models has caused a lot of the problems we see now. Government depts were never meant to earn a profit. They were meant to supply a service.

George, the CEO president with an MBA, gave us the Iraq war that was supposed to pay for itself. That didn't work out any better than his cutting taxes to raise revenue and balance the budget.

Anyone claiming to be an expert is selling something. I brandish my ignorance like a crucifix at vampires. Aaron Bady

lucysmom  posted on  2012-05-14   12:31:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: sneakypete (#27)

I put to you that we have nothing left to grow into now, and so we must as a species go into a period of shrinkage that we have not experienced since the Dark Ages and the Black Plaguei (sic). Like the original Dark Ages, I think this period will last near a Millenia, and who we are and how we come out of this at the end is anybody’s guess. Isn't that what the Mayan calender predicts?

PLEASE tell me you are kidding. This is out there. Even for you.

Of course she is NOT kidding.

Mass murder is what leftists always do.

This is why they must be defeated, at all costs.


Iran’s main drive for acquiring atomic weapons is not for use against Israel but as a deterrent against U.S. intervention -- Major General Zeevi Farkash, head of the Israeli Military Intelligence Directorate

jwpegler  posted on  2012-05-14   12:34:01 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: sneakypete (#38)

Welfare parasites once their "Free money" and housing are cut off.

Not to mention the three city workers you see leaning on shovels at city work projects while one guy with a shovel does all the work.

Exactly right.

The more I listen to these lazy shitheads, piss and moan about how unfair life is, the more I believe that we need to go cold turkey -- cut it all off, immediately.

Eliminate welfare. Fire government employees. Means test Social Security and Medicare. Done.

What will happen to these people? Will they just sit their and let themselves starve? NO, they will figure out a way to feed themselves, by getting a job or creating their own job.


Iran’s main drive for acquiring atomic weapons is not for use against Israel but as a deterrent against U.S. intervention -- Major General Zeevi Farkash, head of the Israeli Military Intelligence Directorate

jwpegler  posted on  2012-05-14   12:38:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: mininggold, lucysmom, Sneakypete (#33)

If your brother thinks San Jose is bad

I wonder who else Sneaky thinks will pick all that produce or cheaply clean the offices of the computer moguls.

Typical libTURD whores.

First this hag quotes some gibberish at you about San Jose telling you in effect to believe her bullshit NOT your own or your brother's eyes! I mean hell's bells your brother has only LIVED there for decades while this hag couldn't find San Jose on a bet.

Then the other hag shows the world that she is both a FOOL and a raciest, (just your typical libTURD). There are no crops to pick in San Jose FOOL. Those steaming tenements filled with non-english speakers are PRESUMED by this hag to be janitors. That's raciest!

Typical stoooooooopid libTURD whores.

Spoiled, stupid and ignorant, brain dead phuckwads, libTURD fools, tools, and idiots, are the real sickness; the messiah "king" obammy and his regime are only the symptoms.

Mad Dog  posted on  2012-05-14   12:39:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: jwpegler (#48)

What will happen to these people? Will they just sit their and let themselves starve? NO, they will figure out a way to feed themselves, by getting a job or creating their own job.

Of course, without government employees, crime could be an attractive alternative.

Maybe you should see how that's all working in Somalia before proposing it here - their free market, self supporting coast guard is particularly interesting.

Anyone claiming to be an expert is selling something. I brandish my ignorance like a crucifix at vampires. Aaron Bady

lucysmom  posted on  2012-05-14   12:45:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: jwpegler (#48)

The more I listen to these lazy shitheads, piss and moan about how unfair life is...

No one pisses and moans about the unfairness of life more than a conservative, it can be read right here of LF every single day.

Anyone claiming to be an expert is selling something. I brandish my ignorance like a crucifix at vampires. Aaron Bady

lucysmom  posted on  2012-05-14   12:47:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: lucysmom (#39)

Certainly not Americans, they won't work for wages that puts them in the food stamp line.

They will if you cut off the free ride they are getting now and their only option is to go hungry.

"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011

Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs

Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter.

sneakypete  posted on  2012-05-14   12:49:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: lucysmom (#40)

Governments and companies exist for very different purposes.

That is less true now than it was,and less true than it will be tomorrow.

Thanks to Poppy Bush and his New World Order,and Bubba Bill and Tony Blair's "The Third Way", fascism is the wave of the (near) future.

"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011

Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs

Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter.

sneakypete  posted on  2012-05-14   12:52:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: mininggold (#41)

Your second statement indicates you need to get our more, and stop watching the Cartoon Network.

Yeah,because you and your cell are MUCH more connected to reality and more observant than I am,right?

"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011

Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs

Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter.

sneakypete  posted on  2012-05-14   12:54:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: lucysmom, jwpegler (#51)

No one pisses and moans about the unfairness of life more than a conservative, it can be read right here of LF every single day.

You gibbering brain dead libTURD WHORE!

Put your money where your BIG FAT ASS is WHORE.

QUOTE ANY "CONSERVATIVE" on THIS site moaning about the "UNFAIRNESS of LIFE".

You CAN'T do it because as usual you gibbering bitch, you LIE.

I'll bet you $100.00 right now you simpering libTURD whore that you cannot find such a quote, (LOSER to pay Stone towards THIS site btw whore).

PUT UP OR SHUT UP WHORE.

.

..

...

....

.....

NEVER

.

..

...

....

.....

F'ing

.

..

...

....

.....

happen

.

..

...

....

.....

eh WHORE?

.

..

...

....

.....

.

..

...

....

.....

Spoiled, stupid and ignorant, brain dead phuckwads, libTURD fools, tools, and idiots, are the real sickness; the messiah "king" obammy and his regime are only the symptoms.

Mad Dog  posted on  2012-05-14   12:55:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: lucysmom, mininggold (#42)

Not to mention the three city workers you see leaning on shovels at city work projects while one guy with a shovel does all the work. Not nearly as costly as the free marketeers that crashed the world economy and then claimed bonuses.

You and mining need to get together and compare notes. She says they don't exist.

Which makes me wonder if she works for a city government.

"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011

Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs

Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter.

sneakypete  posted on  2012-05-14   12:56:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: We The People (#45)

It doesn't actually predict any event that isn't astrnomical, other than the end of the calendar cycle.

Somebody needs to explain this to teebee reporters and reporterettes,not me.

"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011

Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs

Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter.

sneakypete  posted on  2012-05-14   12:57:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: sneakypete (#56)

Which makes me wonder if she works for a city government.

Retired government employees, probably school teachers.

Their entire Modus operandi is geared towards protecting their 6 figure taxpayer- financed pensions.


Iran’s main drive for acquiring atomic weapons is not for use against Israel but as a deterrent against U.S. intervention -- Major General Zeevi Farkash, head of the Israeli Military Intelligence Directorate

jwpegler  posted on  2012-05-14   12:59:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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