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Title: The Myth About Marriage
Source:
New York Review of Books
URL Source: http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblo ... s%29&utm_content=Google+Reader
Published: May 13, 2012
Author: Garry Wills
Post Date: 2012-05-13 10:23:43 by lucysmom
Keywords: None
Views: 62575
Comments: 126
Why do some people who would recognize gay civil unions oppose gay marriage? Certain religious groups want to deny gays the sacredeness of what they take to be a sacrament. But marriage is no sacrament. Some of my fellow Catholics even think that “true marriage” was instituted by Christ. It wasn’t. Marriage is prescribed in Eden by YHWH (Yahweh) at Genesis 2.24: man and wife shall “become one flesh.” When Jesus is asked about marriage, he simply quotes that passage from Genesis (Mark 10.8). He nowhere claims to be laying a new foundation for a “Christian marriage” to replace the Yahwist institution. Some try to make the wedding at Cana (John 1.1-11) somehow sacramental because Jesus worked his first miracle there. But that was clearly a Jewish wedding, like any other Jesus might have attended, and the miracle, by its superabundance of wine, is meant to show the disciples that the Messianic time has come. The great Johannine scholar Father Raymond Brown emphasizes this, and concludes of the passage: “Neither the external nor the internal evidence for a symbolic reference to matrimony is strong. The wedding is only the backdrop and occasion for the story, and the joining of the man and woman does not have any direct role in the narrative.” The early church had no specific rite for marriage. This was left up to the secular authorities of the Roman Empire, since marriage is a legal concern for the legitimacy of heirs. snip Those who do not want to let gay partners have the sacredness of sacramental marriage are relying on a Scholastic fiction of the thirteenth century to play with people’s lives, as the church has done ever since the time of Aquinas. The myth of the sacrament should not let people deprive gays of the right to natural marriage, whether blessed by Yahweh or not. They surely do not need—since no one does—the blessing of Saint Thomas.
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#87. To: Ferret Mike (#85)
There is nothing to debate. You are an idiot. Bashing your idiotic beliefs is more fun. Besides buckeroo is doing just fine. You can't even answer his simple questions.
Like buck said. Two faggots can't have a kid. You're a real sicko Mike. People like you are exactly what is wrong with this country.
That is completely incorrect. From the early Christian era marriage was thought of as primarily a private matter, with no uniform religious or civil ceremony being required. One of the functions of churches from the Middle Ages was to register marriages. There was no state involvement in marriage at all. In America, we had common law marriages. If two people publicly declared that they were married, then they were married. Government issued marriage licenses didn't become the norm until the Progressive Era, when 38 states passed laws requiring marriage licenses to prevent whites from marrying people of other races. Government control over marriage is a very a new phenomenon. Like everything else the government touches, government involvement has destroyed marriage. We need to completely remove any and all involvement that the government has in marriage.
So, you owe up to the fact that megalomaniac little you never has any intetion of fair discussion or debate. I notice too that when I mentioned your posts were scroll-by my bozo list was completely emptied like it was last time you were wondering about whether I was a new person bozing you showing up in setup. You respect nothing and no one but yourself. I'll send Neil a followup about this misuse of his software from 4UM. Good riddance to you.
A lot of bozo thefts in Mikey's neighborhood. Does anyone else think that it's weird that he keeps posts of gay outings on his laptop?
Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice.
In Catholic Mexico the state doesn't recognize as legitimate the marriage performed in a church, nor does the church recognize a civil wedding as legitimate so Christian couples get married twice to satisfy both. Marriage can be secular or religious, and it can be both.
Anyone claiming to be an expert is selling something. I brandish my ignorance like a crucifix at vampires. Aaron Bady
cornflake gurl is a VERY "special" little libTURD creep. Who knows what goes on in "her" so called brain? "She" sure doesn't.
Spoiled, stupid and ignorant, brain dead phuckwads, libTURD fools, tools, and idiots, are the real sickness; the messiah "king" obammy and his regime are only the symptoms.
It's been my experience that when some one replies with something like the above, they're talking through their hat. Go forth and trouble me no more.
Anyone claiming to be an expert is selling something. I brandish my ignorance like a crucifix at vampires. Aaron Bady
For one local (sort of) radio personality, it is because he was kept from his domestic and professional partner in the hospital - doctors wouldn't even talk to him, his partner died because doctors didn't have information that could have saved his life and that he could have provided had he been allowed.
Anyone claiming to be an expert is selling something. I brandish my ignorance like a crucifix at vampires. Aaron Bady
Well, no, that's not true.
Anyone claiming to be an expert is selling something. I brandish my ignorance like a crucifix at vampires. Aaron Bady
I do think it's odd of you to ask.
Anyone claiming to be an expert is selling something. I brandish my ignorance like a crucifix at vampires. Aaron Bady
Sexual desires have nothing to do with 'reality'.
Really? Are you reading yukon's gay gazette which tells you otherwise?
You mean to tell me that a human being who has reason cannot commit to another and to their homosexual activity with out the State and all of society being forced to agree to your demands and to intrude on a religious majority of the nation?
libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=30096
At about the 46 or 50 minute mark on this you would like the fact that the Atheist, Ayan Rand rails against the idea of a God (Atlas Shrugged - John Galt speech). The reason I posted it is not for that reason, the reason I posted it was so just maybe people would grasp the concept of liberty, life and happiness and the desires of those who refuse to acknowledge truth and reality. If you get real brave, you might listen. She has been after all, agreed by the philosophical community of learned minds, and noted at a great philosopher if not controversial. Go ahead, it's ok for the person who is a free man to listen. So far it's not illegal. But I wouldn't take that for granted.
hehehe
I'm so impressed by the razzle dazzle. Think I'll go support the rainbow projecting, abracadabra man. ; ))))
ROFLMAO!!! omg!!!
Seriously that hits my funny bone. I'm stealing it. Thanks.......:)))
They don't; They degrade social standards and goals with their shameless perversion and undisciplined urges. For 5,000 years, queer behavior has been rejected, ridiculed, regarded morally WRONG for obvious reasons. Note Mike won't touch your question with...even yu-klown's unit. As a group, aren't they a detriment to social goals for the survival of society? As a group, militant queers goals have been to debase civilized society and corrupt its youth AND our entire culture....an obvious net negative off the Ricter Scale of Humanity. BUT as God intended, queers can NOT reproduce naturally. As a means of increasing their numbers, they continue to recruit through propaganda and coercion, and violate the bodies and minds of the most vulnerable: THE YOUNG and MALLEABLE.
Well said. Nice to see you here.
: D that had to have hurt.
The only problem is the un-thinkers have allowed homosexuals to adopt their unwanted children and allowed them to claim they should now be known as a legitimate family.
Beyond having progeny, another social goal was to ensure reasonable community FORCE against those that violated the bonds of the communal vows. Rape, incest, homosexuality and so forth were always shunned within almost all societies around the world. If someone was caught in acts that violated social standards, they were often shunned or chastised for years or even worse, put to death. As modern societies evolve, we are intricately linked to our past of many thousands of years. It is codified in our DNA and the documented laws for social behaviour. And the sense of "shame" shall always be the first area of responsible considerations, even if there is some sort of agreement to keep a relationship secret or away from society. EXCELLENT post, Buck. In a total reversal of our innate God-programmed sense of shame and right-and-wrong, contemporary "enlightened" man sees ZERO shame these days for the most egregious of cultural behavior; So much so that righteousness and virtue are now somehow regarded by this new perverted pop culture as "shameful". Right is wrong; Up is down. Good is evil. The End Days indeed.
Hi SJM...thanks. Miss ya over at Yu-klown's Emporium of 24/7 Statism and Insanity. What happened?? What did I miss??
How queer adoptions/recruitment have suddenly been accepted in a sane society as "normal" by ANY stretch of imagination is...decadent. It is FREAKISH and so are the celebrity celebrations OF this freakishness. I think most people either are too overwhelmed by a million and one other assaults on their common sense OR have been coerced or brainwashed by three decades of media and pop-culture propaganda.
Goldi-lox banned me, not only the first time that I thought I had been hacked, but the second time. I knew then, the second time, that it was her who did it after emailing her, no answer, and all the posts to her, asking her to get to the bottom of it, or even say anything at all concerning what had happened. She put my preference for the liberty of this nation and the only candidate who is running for liberty and Constitutional liberty as a priority to freeze me out of the so called "freedom of speech" guaranteed by her site and America and banned me. She stabbed me in the back. But then, she works for the military industry and is a Jew who see's America's role as supporting them through our tax dollars and military. I understand the Bible and know that Israel as it has been perverted in our culture is not at all what the Bible means by standing by her. Anyway, I guess I'm against the designs of the military complex. I'm not crying. I'm proud.
This was well stated, Liberator. I feel real sorry though for those who have allowed themselves the luxury to disregard reality and work toward their own demise.
That's unbelievable. And shameful. You've been at LP forever contributing constructively, have a serious problem and then your incident is handled indifferently?? Especially in light of the lengths she went in investigating yu-klown's bogus "I wuz hacked" charade and indicting innocent posters of involvement. My guess is it was in part for your support of Ron Paul...and then your getting the better of her pet canary. Mommy has always protected him. She put my preference for the liberty of this nation and the only candidate who is running for liberty and Constitutional liberty as a priority to freeze me out of the so called "freedom of speech" guaranteed by her site and America and banned me. She stabbed me in the back. I'd have thought better of her...MUCH better of her given her supposed aversion to statism. But then again she allows statist shill yu-klown, the ACLU Tool, and the Plagiarist to lie and fling poo with impunity. But then, she works for the military industry and is a Jew who see's America's role as supporting them through our tax dollars and military. I understand the Bible and know that Israel as it has been perverted in our culture is not at all what the Bible means by standing by her. Anyway, I guess I'm against the designs of the military complex. I'm not crying. I'm proud. She may have a self-serving warm spot for the military-industrial complex. But there is an interesting characterization of the dynamics of some Jews who demand absolute loyalty to the Jewish state and an entitlement attitude that requires political, economic, and military subservience to Israel BY America. OR ELSE. I think we as conservatives are constantly evolving as truth-seekers as the man behind the curtain becomes more and more exposed. It's the same deduction of reasoning that has finally forced many to accept the fact that the events of 9/11 required the planned/purposeful negligence of the PTB. Ten years later and here we are kissing the azz of Islam IN OUR OWN COUNTRY, abroad, and voting for a Muslim President named Hussein.
Thanks again...They're working not only toward their own demise but taking us ALL down in the process. I really feel sorry for our young people and M-TV Gen who've been bombarded with propaganda their entire lives; The peer pressure to succumb to accept perverted behavior and contrived "norms" is something we can't even imagine.
I think that reasoning ability of HUMANS, is constant. (Some do it better than others).
Nope, it's not "information" ..... Hint: Everybody wants it and needs it to some extent..... Some come by it honestly and some because they think they are victims!!!
Leftardism/Liberalism: The chickenschitt way to deal with life’s problems by creating solutions to problems that don’t exist, thereby creating a problem where none existed before and then having to find a solution to that one…
You mean to tell me that as much love as they had for each other they were unwilling to use our laws, legally to express their desires to be part of each others lives? Do you mean that only had they been married they could have done this? I hope you not only see the faulty in your reasoning, but acknowledge that homosexuals have had the ability to protect themselves all along though utilizing the law to protect them and their loves ones. How absurd to deny that as a fact in our society.
He sued and won, but that didn't bring back his partner.
Anyone claiming to be an expert is selling something. I brandish my ignorance like a crucifix at vampires. Aaron Bady
California domestic partnership laws exist in part because of him. Why do you care if gays are allowed to marry? What skin is it off your nose?
Anyone claiming to be an expert is selling something. I brandish my ignorance like a crucifix at vampires. Aaron Bady
First time I've checked my pings for a good while.... All I can say is that you truly, truly do not have the mental ability to even be here on this forum, nor speak about anything. If you really are incapable of reading posts that have already been posted, you are mentally deficient.
I have no idea what that has to do with my comment, but OK.
Baiting and insults from you is discussion? You are a joke.
#88. To: Ferret Mike (#86)
Buck was ignoring what I said and would not vary from the bait. Thus end of discussion with him too.
#89. To: lucysmom (#0)
(Edited)
The early church had no specific rite for marriage. This was left up to the secular authorities of the Roman Empire, since marriage is a legal concern for the legitimacy of heirs.
Iran’s main drive for acquiring atomic weapons is not for use against Israel but as a deterrent against U.S. intervention -- Major General Zeevi Farkash, head of the Israeli Military Intelligence Directorate
#90. To: A K A Stone (#87)
"There is nothing to debate... Bashing your idiotic beliefs is more fun.
#91. To: Ferret Mike, Mad Dog, A K A Stone (#90)
(Edited)
when I mentioned your posts were scroll-by my bozo list was completely emptied like it was last time you were wondering about whether I was
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#92. To: Fibr Dog (#42)
Nothing was "left up to the secular authorities of the Roman empire" and Christians did not get married simply because "marriage is a legal concern for the legitimacy of heirs."
#93. To: hondo68, cornflake gurl (#91)
Does anyone else think that it's weird that he keeps posts of gay outings on his laptop?
#94. To: SJN (#43)
Go forth and read. I won't do the research you apparently are unwilling to do for yourself.
#95. To: CZ82 (#45)
And I still haven't seen anybody mention the real reason why gays want to get married in the first place......
#96. To: buckeroo (#62)
Marriage has ALWAYS been between a single man and a woman.
#97. To: hondo68 (#91)
Does anyone else think that it's weird that he keeps posts of gay outings on his laptop?
#98. To: Ferret Mike (#46)
ADA research and all other well conducted and impartial studies have shown homosexuality to just be a normal human sexual variation.
#99. To: lucysmom (#96)
#100. To: Ferret Mike (#48)
making this strong a commitment to another.
#101. To: Ferret Mike (#86)
#102. To: Ferret Mike (#48)
#103. To: A K A Stone (#1)
#104. To: whyofcourse (#103)
#105. To: whyofcourse (#103)
#106. To: SJN (#105)
#107. To: whyofcourse (#106)
#108. To: whyofcourse (#106)
#109. To: buckeroo, Ferret Mike, SJN (#49)
How does a homosexual promote social standards and goals...?
#110. To: Liberator (#109)
#111. To: buckeroo (#49)
As a group, aren't they a detriment to social goals for the survival of society?
#112. To: buckeroo (#49)
#113. To: buckeroo, SJN (#44)
I want to point out, however, that irrespective of religious practices from animism to the Church of Scientology and all those in between, that marriage was an important consideration in secular societies as well. Again, the goal has always been to ensure a minimum of social standards about a relationship wherein children were an important attribute for and about the same community.
#114. To: SJN (#110)
#115. To: SJN (#112)
The only problem is the un-thinkers have allowed homosexuals to adopt their unwanted children and allowed them to claim they should now be known as a legitimate family.
#116. To: Liberator (#114)
#117. To: Liberator (#115)
#118. To: SJN (#116)
Goldi-lox banned me, not only the first time that I thought I had been hacked, but the second time. I knew then, the second time, that it was her who did it after emailing her, no answer, and all the posts to her, asking her to get to the bottom of it, or even say anything at all concerning what had happened.
#119. To: SJN (#117)
(Edited)
#120. To: Liberator (#118)
I think we as conservatives are constantly evolving as truth-seeker
#121. To: lucysmom, All (#95)
(Edited)
And I still haven't seen anybody mention the real reason why gays want to get married in the first place...... For one local (sort of) radio personality, it is because he was kept from his domestic and professional partner in the hospital - doctors wouldn't even talk to him, his partner died because doctors didn't have information that could have saved his life and that he could have provided had he been allowed.
#122. To: lucysmom (#95)
For one local (sort of) radio personality, it is because he was kept from his domestic and professional partner in the hospital - doctors wouldn't even talk to him, his partner died because doctors didn't have information that could have saved his life and that he could have provided had he been allowed.
#123. To: SJN (#122)
I hope you not only see the faulty in your reasoning, but acknowledge that homosexuals have had the ability to protect themselves all along though utilizing the law to protect them and their loves ones. How absurd to deny that as a fact in our society.
#124. To: SJN (#122)
You mean to tell me that as much love as they had for each other they were unwilling to use our laws, legally to express their desires to be part of each others lives?
#125. To: lucysmom (#124)
#126. To: lucysmom (#92)
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