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Title: The Myth About Marriage
Source:
New York Review of Books
URL Source: http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblo ... s%29&utm_content=Google+Reader
Published: May 13, 2012
Author: Garry Wills
Post Date: 2012-05-13 10:23:43 by lucysmom
Keywords: None
Views: 62395
Comments: 126
Why do some people who would recognize gay civil unions oppose gay marriage? Certain religious groups want to deny gays the sacredeness of what they take to be a sacrament. But marriage is no sacrament. Some of my fellow Catholics even think that “true marriage” was instituted by Christ. It wasn’t. Marriage is prescribed in Eden by YHWH (Yahweh) at Genesis 2.24: man and wife shall “become one flesh.” When Jesus is asked about marriage, he simply quotes that passage from Genesis (Mark 10.8). He nowhere claims to be laying a new foundation for a “Christian marriage” to replace the Yahwist institution. Some try to make the wedding at Cana (John 1.1-11) somehow sacramental because Jesus worked his first miracle there. But that was clearly a Jewish wedding, like any other Jesus might have attended, and the miracle, by its superabundance of wine, is meant to show the disciples that the Messianic time has come. The great Johannine scholar Father Raymond Brown emphasizes this, and concludes of the passage: “Neither the external nor the internal evidence for a symbolic reference to matrimony is strong. The wedding is only the backdrop and occasion for the story, and the joining of the man and woman does not have any direct role in the narrative.” The early church had no specific rite for marriage. This was left up to the secular authorities of the Roman Empire, since marriage is a legal concern for the legitimacy of heirs. snip Those who do not want to let gay partners have the sacredness of sacramental marriage are relying on a Scholastic fiction of the thirteenth century to play with people’s lives, as the church has done ever since the time of Aquinas. The myth of the sacrament should not let people deprive gays of the right to natural marriage, whether blessed by Yahweh or not. They surely do not need—since no one does—the blessing of Saint Thomas.
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#59. To: hondo68 (#58)
Except the mental heath establishment that has sown homosexuality not to be an evil or a stigma are made up of scant few of those.
I know you regard me as a fairely simple and stupid poster, as though I am a mere country bumpkin, but I am intrigued how two males can have children OR conversely, how two women can have children naturally without male/female interaction. Look, I am learning all the time. Help me!
The point you make a mountain out of a molehill over is that has nothing to do with the right to marriage. Unless you are a believer that infertile humans should be banned from marriage, or even have it ended if their fertile period of life ends.
Marriage has ALWAYS been between a single man and a woman. It is a contract between themselves and society at large. It is a rite of passage about one's maturity to be successful in the raising of children and family life overall. How is that idea a "mountain out of a molehill over is that has nothing to do with the right to marriage"?
Homophobia and bigotry of homosexuals has not always been such a common affliction. Your 'always" is a lie. Marriage is a commitment between two people that should always be permitted. The human race would not be better if people who prefer same gender relationships were forced to go against their will to marry someone of the opposite sex. Hatred and oppression would win, and human rights and the common good would suffer greatly.
Lets review human history for a moment. Where has homosexuality been honoured?
The homo mafia has tried using strong-arm tactics, but normal people aren't buying it. Kenyans know the Obama illness well, and aren't afraid to speak the truth. It's settled science, known for 6 thousand years. In a press release dated December 15, 1973, the APA became the first medical organisation “to officially remove the stigma of disease from persons with same-sex preference”. It’s very important to note that no new medical findings had been made about homosexuality between 1970 and 1973 to reverse the diagnosis that it was a disease. The homosexual lobby brought about this reversal by its persistent and for the most part, dishonest public campaigning. This included coercion and lobbying of government and influential organizations in America. Numerous incidences are well documented during this period when homo activists frequently disrupted medical conferences, shouting down speakers and physically intimidating scientists. Clearly, the 1973 reversal was a political and not a scientific decision by the APA. Its very easy to understand why the homosexual activists resorted to these unscientific tactics. The credibility of the homosexual movement was at great risk as long as the medical professional listed their behaviour as a sickness. Public opinion in America (and elsewhere) could be greatly influenced to regard homosexuality positively if a “scientific opinion” was to lend support to the homosexual cause. Thus, the 1973 APA decision opened the most important door for homosexuality to find a legal footing in western countries. I will now demonstrate here that homosexuality remains a mental disorder, despite what misguided Western nations may want Africans to believe. Any honest, unbiased person who has studied the medical literature relating to homosexuality will surely reach the same conclusion.
Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice.
To you, a heterosexual partner who have to rely on a surrigate Mom or artificial insemination as being normal but a gay couple who does the same sort of thing with the same end goal in mind are horrble to you. This is a double standard, and points to the fact I have already covered this base with you and points to the bigotry that spawns your cognitive dissonance on the topic. Mike quit playing stupid. Faggots can't reporduce with themselves. Then need to sexually abuse a woman in some manner. Mike I know you said your mom abused you as a child. There is something seriously wrong with you. Did she molest you? You never mentioned your dad. Do you know him. Did he spend time with you? Did you play with barbies and wear a dress as a child? Did you have a labotomy or did you maybe have your head run over by a steam roller?
This is just one of many links with material covering the topic. I already did this ground in more then one sociology class, and I am not going to do it once more here. I am not gay and do not feel the pressing need to devote this much time and more to this topic; particularly in this hostile venue. You are welcome to read up on this should you chose.
Is a word insecure faggots such as yourself made up to try and make themselves feel better. You and your faggot friends are normaphobes. Freaks, perverts degenerates, kindling, useless eaters.
Did your lobotomy make you so stupid you cannot even spell the word?
It is a childish game to bait people as part of the group involved in the header topic. It is you who looks stupid doing this, not me, Mr. High School games.
Did someone stick an ice pick in your eye and swish it around? Your existence is making me understand the need that societies in the past felt to burn witches. They didn't deal with freaks like you. They just got rid of you.
Is a word insecure faggots such as yourself made up to try and make themselves feel better.
Understatement of the year.
Do you have the right to impose your religious "beliefs" on others? I have yet to see the great harm shown that will result from gay marriage. Gays are, have been, and always will be a small part of the population and therefore any perceived impact on families will be negligible.
No. Stand your ground, Mike. Put up or shut the fuck up about how homosexuals have children naturally. No stinkin' hotlinks.
You deserve no more consideration. Happy Mother's Day.
They don't even have them unnaturally. They can only hold them hostage. They aren't parents. They aren't a family. A family can never consist of two homosexuals.
End of discussion. You no longer wish dialog anyway.
You no longer wish dialog anyway. Tuck your talk and run wuss.
Not even close.....
Leftardism/Liberalism: The chickenschitt way to deal with life’s problems by creating solutions to problems that don’t exist, thereby creating a problem where none existed before and then having to find a solution to that one…
You are wise to shut the FUCK UP.
Piss off.
Cat got your tongue about how gays have children on a natural basis?
Piss off. Mike you wussed out and ran like a crying little girl. Buckeroo was asking legitimate questions. He wasn't bashing you like I am. So answer his question or run away like a crying little faggot.
Baiting and insults from you is discussion? You are a joke. You don't even have close to the maturity to comport yourself properly in many topics, this being one of them. You set the tone, so live with the results. You just refuse to be an adult in discussion.
Buck was ignoring what I said and would not vary from the bait. Thus end of discussion with him too.
There is nothing to debate. You are an idiot. Bashing your idiotic beliefs is more fun. Besides buckeroo is doing just fine. You can't even answer his simple questions.
Like buck said. Two faggots can't have a kid. You're a real sicko Mike. People like you are exactly what is wrong with this country.
That is completely incorrect. From the early Christian era marriage was thought of as primarily a private matter, with no uniform religious or civil ceremony being required. One of the functions of churches from the Middle Ages was to register marriages. There was no state involvement in marriage at all. In America, we had common law marriages. If two people publicly declared that they were married, then they were married. Government issued marriage licenses didn't become the norm until the Progressive Era, when 38 states passed laws requiring marriage licenses to prevent whites from marrying people of other races. Government control over marriage is a very a new phenomenon. Like everything else the government touches, government involvement has destroyed marriage. We need to completely remove any and all involvement that the government has in marriage.
So, you owe up to the fact that megalomaniac little you never has any intetion of fair discussion or debate. I notice too that when I mentioned your posts were scroll-by my bozo list was completely emptied like it was last time you were wondering about whether I was a new person bozing you showing up in setup. You respect nothing and no one but yourself. I'll send Neil a followup about this misuse of his software from 4UM. Good riddance to you.
A lot of bozo thefts in Mikey's neighborhood. Does anyone else think that it's weird that he keeps posts of gay outings on his laptop?
Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice.
In Catholic Mexico the state doesn't recognize as legitimate the marriage performed in a church, nor does the church recognize a civil wedding as legitimate so Christian couples get married twice to satisfy both. Marriage can be secular or religious, and it can be both.
Anyone claiming to be an expert is selling something. I brandish my ignorance like a crucifix at vampires. Aaron Bady
cornflake gurl is a VERY "special" little libTURD creep. Who knows what goes on in "her" so called brain? "She" sure doesn't.
Spoiled, stupid and ignorant, brain dead phuckwads, libTURD fools, tools, and idiots, are the real sickness; the messiah "king" obammy and his regime are only the symptoms.
It's been my experience that when some one replies with something like the above, they're talking through their hat. Go forth and trouble me no more.
Anyone claiming to be an expert is selling something. I brandish my ignorance like a crucifix at vampires. Aaron Bady
For one local (sort of) radio personality, it is because he was kept from his domestic and professional partner in the hospital - doctors wouldn't even talk to him, his partner died because doctors didn't have information that could have saved his life and that he could have provided had he been allowed.
Anyone claiming to be an expert is selling something. I brandish my ignorance like a crucifix at vampires. Aaron Bady
Well, no, that's not true.
Anyone claiming to be an expert is selling something. I brandish my ignorance like a crucifix at vampires. Aaron Bady
I do think it's odd of you to ask.
Anyone claiming to be an expert is selling something. I brandish my ignorance like a crucifix at vampires. Aaron Bady
Sexual desires have nothing to do with 'reality'.
Really? Are you reading yukon's gay gazette which tells you otherwise?
Comments (100 - 126) not displayed.
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#60. To: Ferret Mike (#57)
I explained how. [how homosexuals have children NATURALLY]
#61. To: buckeroo (#60)
#62. To: Ferret Mike (#61)
The point you make a mountain out of a molehill over is that has nothing to do with the right to marriage.
#63. To: buckeroo (#62)
(Edited)
#64. To: Ferret Mike (#63)
Homophobia and bigotry of homosexuals has not always been such a common affliction. Your 'always" is a lie.
#65. To: Ferret Mike, *Liberal Rehab Staff* (#59)
(Edited)
the mental heath establishment that has sown homosexuality
Homosexual Diseases Part 3: Mental Disorders (Kenyans Against Homosexuality - Confronting Homosexuality with Facts) 
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#66. To: Ferret Mike (#57)
I explained how. You are just unwilling to acknowledge that.
#67. To: buckeroo (#64)
Homosexuality in History
#68. To: Ferret Mike (#63)
Homophobia
#69. To: A K A Stone (#66)
"Did you have a labotomy or did you maybe have your head run over by a steam roller? "
#70. To: A K A Stone (#68)
#71. To: Ferret Mike (#69)
#72. To: Ferret Mike (#70)
#73. To: Ferret Mike (#67)
in this hostile venue.
#74. To: SJN (#34)
(Edited)
It is upholding what God Himself put together and not perverting it.
#75. To: Ferret Mike (#67)
You are welcome to read up on this should you chose.
#76. To: A K A Stone (#72)
#77. To: buckeroo (#75)
No. Stand your ground, Mike. Put up or shut the fuck up about how homosexuals have children naturally. No stinkin' hotlinks.
#78. To: buckeroo (#75)
#79. To: Ferret Mike (#78)
End of discussion.
#80. To: Ferret Mike (#47)
And I see the old snear that gays and lesbians have many short relationships and this is detrimental to their health and welfare justified at all if it is those uttering such nonsense are the ones working aggressively to make it as hard as possible to commit to and live ib a stable long term relationship.
#81. To: Ferret Mike (#78)
#82. To: buckeroo (#81)
"You are wise to shut the FUCK UP."
#83. To: Ferret Mike (#82)
#84. To: Ferret Mike (#82)
"You are wise to shut the FUCK UP."
#85. To: A K A Stone (#79)
"Tuck your talk and run wuss."
#86. To: A K A Stone (#84)
"Buckeroo was asking legitimate questions."
#87. To: Ferret Mike (#85)
Baiting and insults from you is discussion? You are a joke.
#88. To: Ferret Mike (#86)
Buck was ignoring what I said and would not vary from the bait. Thus end of discussion with him too.
#89. To: lucysmom (#0)
(Edited)
The early church had no specific rite for marriage. This was left up to the secular authorities of the Roman Empire, since marriage is a legal concern for the legitimacy of heirs.
Iran’s main drive for acquiring atomic weapons is not for use against Israel but as a deterrent against U.S. intervention -- Major General Zeevi Farkash, head of the Israeli Military Intelligence Directorate
#90. To: A K A Stone (#87)
"There is nothing to debate... Bashing your idiotic beliefs is more fun.
#91. To: Ferret Mike, Mad Dog, A K A Stone (#90)
(Edited)
when I mentioned your posts were scroll-by my bozo list was completely emptied like it was last time you were wondering about whether I was
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#92. To: Fibr Dog (#42)
Nothing was "left up to the secular authorities of the Roman empire" and Christians did not get married simply because "marriage is a legal concern for the legitimacy of heirs."
#93. To: hondo68, cornflake gurl (#91)
Does anyone else think that it's weird that he keeps posts of gay outings on his laptop?
#94. To: SJN (#43)
Go forth and read. I won't do the research you apparently are unwilling to do for yourself.
#95. To: CZ82 (#45)
And I still haven't seen anybody mention the real reason why gays want to get married in the first place......
#96. To: buckeroo (#62)
Marriage has ALWAYS been between a single man and a woman.
#97. To: hondo68 (#91)
Does anyone else think that it's weird that he keeps posts of gay outings on his laptop?
#98. To: Ferret Mike (#46)
ADA research and all other well conducted and impartial studies have shown homosexuality to just be a normal human sexual variation.
#99. To: lucysmom (#96)
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