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Title: What Version of the Christian Holy Bible Do You read?
Source:
LF
URL Source: http://hereandnow
Published: Feb 18, 2012
Author: buckeroo
Post Date: 2012-02-18 17:52:56 by buckeroo
Keywords: None
Views: 289545
Comments: 449
Assuming you have a Christian Holy Bible of one flavor or another, what version do you read? As several examples, here are several variations: the New King James Version, New Living Translation, New International Version, New Revised Standard Version and so forth. Post your comment on this thread.
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#185. To: diva betsy ross (#184)
You don't believe in a God as in a monotheistic concept. You believe in a "trinity of GODS" as in a polytheistic concept. Why?
I believe in one God- in three *forms of communication*. Everyone , who is honest, struggles with this concept and how to explain it. God is supernatural, so it is very difficult to put into words- but people try and of course no two explanations are the same. Let me try to explain this, from my POV: There is one God. Jesus is a human- who walked the Earth showing us God's ways. The Holy Spirit is the helper, that Jesus left for us when he departed. This is a very simple way of explaining of course. But they are ,three in one. Three separate purposes- one system. One God. I used to be fascinated with Greek mythology. That is more than one God. :)
I think YOU make God out to be more complex within your interpretation than even Hindu practices which at least have a Brahman over ALL other gods.
Oh for sure- God is very complex. He is so complex that we can not even understand Him completely. This I know, Jesus saves. What religion has a savior who saves, blesses and preforms miracles? Jesus saved me- and many people I know. What I am talking about- this faith I have , is not something I have to wait until I am off this Earth to enjoy. I get it now. Right this very second. you would not beleive the blessing I have gotten in one day. And this happens- day after day- month after month- year after year. There is no end to the blessings and peace I have now. THAT is what I would want for you. I have concrete miracles, blessings- signs and wonders. THAT, and I understand the Bible perfectly well. THAT is a miracle in and of itself. Ok- I have to get some things ready for the week- and then I am back to observing Lent.
I'm an Eastern Orthodox Christian. I mainly use KJV, NKJV, or RSV, but of course all of these are translations -- it is best to refer to the original languages when people are able to do so.
Very very simplified. I was raised in the Catholic Church and I learned the Trinity defines God as three distinct persons. However, the are co-existent and co-equal in unity. You have 'the Father' who creates, 'the Son' who is "only begotten;" meaning he is of nature or basically Son of God in a very different sense from that in which men are said to be made by him children of God, and the 'Holy Spirit' which preceeds. While they are distinct from one another in the functions they preform as the unique individuals they are, they are one and the same in all else. That is how I was made to understand this concept to be.
Yes, she is.
What do you base that on shit apple?
And you are baiting because....? I just love how you show your spiritual side by rhetorically shaking your penis in my general direction. Hey, it's no problem to me if you aklways start out by giving away your power. ;-D It shows how black a religious nature you really have.
Can you answer the question shit apple?
Mike- I am in the process of observing Lent, and this coming weekend I am going to the mountains- so I may not be on for awhile, but I wanted to answer this to you. I beleive that you are a spiritual person. Most people into white magic are spiritual beings looking for something that makes sense to their spirit. It is my belief and understanding and experience that the Roman Catholic church does more to harm a person's spirit than it does to free that beautiful spirit. I try not to say negative things about people's religion, BUT- the Roman catholic church is a sore point for me. If you want to talk about that POV , at a latter date- I am glad to. But please- please - please understand this- Jesus loves women. He loves women so much that He showed himself to a woman, first- when He rose. God loves women. Your spirit is not out of the realm with what Jesus was talking about, and with what resonates with your heart. Just food for thought, so don't get upset. and I didn't want you to think I just cruised off- but this is an important and introspective time for me in my faith. I don't want to be online too much in the next few weeks- and miss something. Best wishes. :) And talk soon?
best wishes to you to, and by all means help talk some sense into my immature and anger oriented friend here fixated on shit covered apple if you would. If you could make him less arrogant and revengeful, we all would be grateful ;-D I'm sure you would agree, his sense of religion does no one any good at all.
Hey Mike. Go to HELL! You helped usher in Obama.
So shit apple how do you know there is a goddess? What do you base that on? An acid trip?
We will work with each other, we will work side by side, And they'll know we are Christians by our love, By our love, Anyone claiming to be an expert is selling something. I brandish my ignorance like a crucifix at vampires. Aaron Bady
In the sense of blindly following the evil intentions or actions of a government, the answer is no (e.g. abortion). In the sense of being law abiding, paying taxes etc. yes. That is why it is important to look at the ENTIRE revelation of the Bible for "what do we do" when government is clearly forcing evil on its citizenry. We know that Christians were persecuted and killed for being Christians under Rome. Rome would say "do not assemble" so the body of believers went underground. They did not form a revolution and fight Rome. When the emperor said bow down and worship me, Christians did not obey, they were executed. I think the best OT example we have is in Daniel. I am sure you know well the account of the faithful three Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego. They were "outed" for not bowing to the image of the king. This was their response from Daniel chapter 3: 14 Nebuchadnezzar spoke, saying to them, "Is it true, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego, that you do not serve my gods or worship the gold image which I have set up? 15 Now if you are ready at the time you hear the sound of the horn, flute, harp, lyre, and psaltery, in symphony with all kinds of music, and you fall down and worship the image which I have made, good! But if you do not worship, you shall be cast immediately into the midst of a burning fiery furnace. And who is the god who will deliver you from my hands?" 16 Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego answered and said to the king, "O Nebuchadnezzar, we have no need to answer you in this matter. 17 If that is the case, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and He will deliver us from your hand, O king. 18 But if not, let it be known to you, O king, that we do not serve your gods, nor will we worship the gold image which you have set up."(NKJV) So to the point of bowing to an image of gold, going against what we know from the Word of God is wrong, we are not to obey. When it comes to tax time, yep give Caesar his due. The Blessings of being an American is our Constitution. Our Constitution points to our Declaration of Independence (which is the philosophical foundation of our nation), which points to the Reformation and the Reformation points to the Bible.
And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, do you not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11And white robes were given to every one of them; and it was said to them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brothers, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. 12And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, see, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, even as a fig tree casts her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every slave, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Firstly, that is total nonsense. John the Baptist and Jesus were 10 years old at most when Judas the Zealot lead his rebellion against Rome in 6 AD. Secondly, the Zealot cause of rebellion was in total conflict with Christ's non-violent and submission to ruling authorities (Rome) preaching. Sorry, but your theory is full of holes
OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.
Please show a specific citation where "Jesus the Nazarene" declared himself to be a GOD. The real issue, was Jesus was despised (being from Nazareth) as the Jewish Zealots in Galilee often resided there. As you know, Jesus was taken to Nazareth after being brought back from Egypt to avoid the wrath of Herod. John 8:58, 59 I AM: Jesus was not just claiming to have lived before Abraham; He was claiming eternal existence. He was claiming to be God Himself (see Ex.3:14). This time the Jewish leaders understood that Jesus was claiming to be God, so they took up stones to stone Him for blasphemy (see Lev. 24:16). "I AM" (Gk. egM eimi) (6:35; 8:58; 10:7, 14; 15:1; 18:5) Strong’s #1473; 1510: This expression denotes “self-identity in self-sufficiency.” In one breath, Jesus asserted His eternal preexistence and His absolute deity. Abraham, as with all mortals, came into existence at one point in time. The Son of God, unlike all mortals, never has a beginning. He is eternal; and He is God. This is evident in Jesus’ use of the words “I AM” for Himself. This statement recalls the Septuagint (the Greek Old Testament) translation of Ex. 3:6, 14, in which God unveiled His identity as the “I AM WHO I AM.” Thus, Jesus was claiming to be the ever-existing, self-existent God. BTW, Herod The Great was dead when Joseph and Mary returned with Jesus from Egypt to Nazareth. He was still an infant.
OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.
And, what did you think about the historical perspective from Flavius Josephus that was posted on #165? Isn't it remarckable that the founder of the Zealots was also from Galilee? That they formed for active and hostile assault against the Romans and often incited riotous rebellion amongst the Jews, the Pharisees and Sadducee? Jesus of Nazareth was guilty of association with the Zealots. And he spoke of both the Pharisees and Sadducees with utter contempt. And John Brown was from Kansas, and i also deplore slavery, but our methods and beliefs are very different. You are barking up the wrong tree.
OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.
Sounds like you should be very afraid.
Almost every country in the Middle East is awash in oil, and we have to side with the one that has nothing but joos. Goddamn, that was good thinkin'. Esso posted on 2012-01-13 7:37:56 ET
Why would you think childish and intemperate insults would bother me? You are the one looking shallow and immature here; not me. Mentioning drug use is no bother either, as I do no drug; not even alcohol, nor cigs either. You are very afraid of the first Amendment and the right for people to be a religion other than your own. You also do not believe in voting, or you wouldn't try to treat people voting for two opposing candidates as being in commission of a criminal act. You give away your power at every post you make, and all you do here is have me feeling sorry for you. I wish you luck in learning how to heal what ails you.
Prior to the time of Jesus the books that make up the O.T. Had been complete for many years. These books were on scrolls. Binding pages together as a codex began shortly after the end of the first century.
OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.
The Muslim faith is NOT based on the ten commandments. Muslims claim their connection to Abraham by Ishmael, and the Jews do through Isaac. The latter is without a doubt the son of promise.
OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.
I understand as late as last year you were denying the existence of Jesus similiar to G A Wells" here is what a secular humanist had to say about that nonsense, and it will give you an idea go w far out y our ideas float. G.A.Wells - retired German teacher, amateur theologian and the hyper-skeptics' demigod. Wells is not very well known outside of the skeptical community. It is the curious nature of his ideas which draws attention. There have been Bible scholars who have denied Jesus said the things attributed to him. Few, however, have joined Wells in denying Jesus very existence. Randel Helms, speaking to an audience of secular humanists at a CODESH "Institute for Inquiry" on "A Secular Humanist Approach to the Gospels," said sarcastically, "I think that you can deal with Well's notion that Christianity could have started without a historical Jesus [as follows]: Sure Christianity could have started without a historical Jesus. And monkeys could fly out of my butt."
OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.
Stick around, pal. I shall be addressing your last few posts directed towards me in rebuttal, perhaps as early as tonite. But, your remarck suggested (just above) came from another poster on this thread just over the past few days. And, you modified DBR's point. I don't doubt that Jesus lived and was murdered sometime in the first half of the first century this common era for speaking out against the established Jews and Romans; I don't question these facts. I doubt the authenticity of documentation that supports that he was the MESSIAH, the CHRIST and so forth. I can see we are going somewhere (now) with your rumour on this thread. We shall have a lot fun, too as one of the principal issues for me and perhaps MOST people is about the authenticity of documentation. Christianity (circa, ~35CE) spawned from Judaism (circa, ~2000BCE) and yet there is little authoritative documentation about the coming of the future MESSIAH, except as written after the Babylonian exile (circa, ~450CE) ... this is a significant issue for me. We shall see if you or anyone can help clarify this serious perspective.
This idea is diametrically opposed to what Joesph&Mary performed with baby Jesus, scurrying off/escaping the census of Rome for later tax collections. They immigrated to Egypt, home of Osiris, not any of the Jews such as back in Babylon. In fact, the family traveled to Nazareth (Galilee) not long afterwards as a result of Herod's death. Why do you suppose they escaped vital tax audits required by the government? And, more importantly why do you think they back to Galilee and went to Nazareth? So, you have opened two questions for me, now.
I have been in a Muslim country. You have to be very careful.
OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.
If you didn't deny the existence of Jesus as DBR stated, then I apologize for that.
OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.
Not at all. Both Jesus and John the Baptist were somehow associated with the Zealots by the geographical area of the Zealots; there continuing conflict between the the Zealots and the Romans from Galilee. From my perspective: it was nothing more than a modern day ruling of class distinction in contemporary political terms to tame the perceived vigilantes by brute force of the ruling class. And I didn't say Jesus or John the Baptist were directly involved with the Zealots; I believe both were involved with the Essenes. In fact, your suggestion is not my point at all. I have data to support that some of Jesus' own disciples were associated with the Zealots and as I said before, Jesus and John the Baptist were guilty by association.
Your thesis was made and dismissed years ago. I'll even provide a book review. BTW, we have a fragment of Mark dated 41 to 50 AD. Jesus and the Zealots. By S. G. F. Brandon. New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1967. xviii + 413 pp.
OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.
"I AM" I am always impressed with single verses from the Bible that attempt to substantiate a point of view. Here is the REAL STUFF, backed by a youtube movie. Jesus was denied plausible merit BECAUSE of the RULING CLASSES (Pharisees&Sadducees) in Jerusalem. You should take this following movie (which is a reenactment of KJV John 8) into context before discussing a very deep subject concerning existence with the expression of "IAM." I should say, do you want to discuss a philosophical viewpoint?
$7.95. Paper, $2.95. Although the book was copyrighted in 1967, it was not published in the USA until November of 1968 and the paper edition came out in June of 1970. Brandon’s (Professor of Comparative Religion in the University of Manchester) basic thesis is that Jesus and the Jewish Christians were Zealot sympathizers in their nationalistic cause against Rome. However, the Gospel of Mark which he dates after A.D. 71 was an apologetic to convince the Roman Christians that Jesus was not involved with any anti-Roman activity by portraying Jesus as having suffered at the hands of the Jews for being a heretic rather than being crucified by the Romans as a rebel against Rome. The other Gospels also point out Christ as a pacifist who taught His disciples to love their enemies and to reject all armed violence. Unfortunately Brandon has started out with the importance of the Zealots and then tries to fit the Gospel records accordingly. However, his evidence is weak but he explains this by saying that one has to read between the lines of the Gospels’ apologetics. This is circular reasoning. Although one of Christ’s disciples was a Zealot, so was one a tax collector for the Romans and the fact that Jesus associated himself with tax collectors should not be considered too lightly. Brandon’s view that Paul was presenting a gospel to the Gentiles which was in conflict with and a compromise of the Jewish Christian version (e.g. pp. 168ff.) is untenable. Interestingly, Brandon really does not have much discussion of Acts 10–11 where the Jewish Christians introduce the gospel to the Gentiles. Although the book has detailed documentation, its basic thesis is open to many questions. This reviewer thinks that one will gain a distorted picture of the historical background to the life of Christ. H. W. Hoehner
OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.
I happened to see your post pop up while I am pursuing another post. But, what did Brandon claim within his knowledge-base about the Dead Sea Scrolls? He died in 1971 before much was released to the publick from authoritative analysis and opinion about the various modern day documents that reach back into circa ~200 BCE - 100 CE.
He Claimed to Be God Perhaps the strongest and clearest occasion of such a claim was at the Feast of Dedication when He said, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30). The neuter form of “one” rules out the meaning that He and the Father were one person. It means that they are in perfect unity in natures and actions, a fact that could only be true if He were as much Deity as the Father. The people who heard this claim understood it that way, for they immediately tried to stone Him for blasphemy because He made Himself out to be God (v. 33). How can anyone say that Jesus of Nazareth Himself never claimed to be God, but rather that His followers made the claim for Him? Most of the passages cited above are from Christ’s own words. Therefore, one must face the only options: either His claims were true or He was a liar. And these claims are for full and complete Deity— nothing missing or removed during His life on earth. 33 “We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”
OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.
Irrespective of ALL your knowledge and education and materials that may support your interpretation about Jesus of Nazareth's parables or metaphors, Jesus NEVER suggested that which you say. Quite simply stated, you don't understand Jesus' saying's at all.
"I AM" is God's name. No philosophical argument can change that.
OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.
You really don't know what you are discussing, and so there is no point in any further discussion with you. Have a nice evening.
OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.
And your singular retort is: No, I am finding you&others moving the standards of discussion for this thread from a Biblical/historical/interpretative analysis and context towards interesting and modern ideas that I haven't seen in a Bible. Let's pull the discussion back towards nothing other than circa ~200BCE to ~200 CE. Of course, modern ideas based on discovery of interpretive authoritative analysis is fully welcomed by me. I enjoyed your use of Brandon, as an example. Such a shame he died before he could see the Dead Sea Scrolls.
And we are ALL God, therefore. Jesus did not jeopardize the Roman Pagan GODS (such as Jupiter) at the time; he did NOT want a violent revolt. He was very passive, except when angered by conventions that go nowhere TO THE REALIZATION OF BEING ONE WITH GOD.
Comments (226 - 449) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestI started by learning the character of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
#186. To: buckeroo (#185)
(Edited)
#187. To: diva betsy ross (#186)
But they are ,three in one. Three separate purposes- one system. One God.
#188. To: buckeroo (#187)
#189. To: buckeroo (#0)
#190. To: diva betsy ross (#186)
(Edited)
"This is a very simple way of explaining of course."
#191. To: diva betsy ross (#188)
"Oh for sure- God is very complex."
#192. To: Ferret Mike (#191)
she is
#193. To: A K A Stone (#192)
#194. To: Ferret Mike (#193)
#195. To: Ferret Mike (#190)
#196. To: diva betsy ross (#195)
#197. To: Ferret Mike (#196)
I'm sure you would agree, his sense of religion does no one any good at all.
#198. To: Ferret Mike (#193)
#199. To: A K A Stone (#197)
Hey Mike. Go to HELL! You helped usher in Obama.
We will work with each other, we will work side by side,
And we'll guard each man's dignity and save each man's pride;
Yes they'll know we are Christians by our love.
#200. To: buckeroo, hondo68, GarySpFc (#180)
What do you think of hondo68's post #1? He starts off the thread with an excellent comparison between two Bible versions and and analysis. Do you think that Paul's Romans 13:1-7 letter is about being subservient to government?
#201. To: lucysmom (#199)
#202. To: buckeroo (#165)
Judas of Galilee (circa ~ 6 CE) lead a revolt against the Romans. 2000 Jews died and the rub was Jesus of Nazareth (and John the Baptist) were somehow involved with this Jewish Zealot group, hence: death to John and Jesus and the disciples, many of which were originally John the Baptist's disciples.
#203. To: buckeroo (#164)
Jesus was murdered because He claimed to be God.
#204. To: buckeroo (#171)
#205. To: A K A Stone (#201)
And when he had opened the fifth seal,........
#206. To: A K A Stone (#198)
(Edited)
#207. To: buckeroo (#108)
So, if you had a chance to view that video: it is the ORAL LAW not the Bible that establishes the Jewish traditions. Jesus was a Jew, for sure. Why would he reference a document (the Bible) that wasn't around at his time?
#208. To: buckeroo (#144)
Of course. You have actually added to the thread not denying or suggesting otherwise that the three great religions are mutually inclusive from the original Jewish documents, circa ~1250 BCE.
#209. To: buckeroo (#150)
One of my ideas, although not advanced with supporting material (just yet) is that Jesus of Nazareth was caught up in a revolution in Judea at around the time of severe subjugation by both the Romans and Jews. The resultant events created the myths we read, irrespective of the variation of the Bible anyone reads.
#210. To: GarySpFC (#209)
(Edited)
I understand as late as last year you were denying the existence of Jesus
#211. To: redleghunter (#200)
(Edited)
When it comes to tax time, yep give Caesar his due.
#212. To: NewsJunky (#158)
If that is true, how can you have non-Muslims living or even visiting Muslim nations?
#213. To: buckeroo (#210)
#214. To: GarySpFC (#202)
buckeroo: Judas of Galilee (circa ~ 6 CE) lead a revolt against the Romans. 2000 Jews died and the rub was Jesus of Nazareth (and John the Baptist) were somehow involved with this Jewish Zealot group, hence: death to John and Jesus and the disciples, many of which were originally John the Baptist's disciples.
GarySpFC: Firstly, that is total nonsense. John the Baptist and Jesus were 10 years old at most when Judas the Zealot lead his rebellion against Rome in 6 AD.Secondly, the Zealot cause of rebellion was in total conflict with Christ's non-violent and submission to ruling authorities (Rome) preaching. Sorry, but your theory is full of holes.
#215. To: buckeroo (#214)
#216. To: GarySpFC (#203)
John 8:58, 59 I AM: Jesus was not just claiming to have lived before Abraham; He was claiming eternal existence. He was claiming to be God Himself (see Ex.3:14). This time the Jewish leaders understood that Jesus was claiming to be God, so they took up stones to stone Him for blasphemy (see Lev. 24:16).
#217. To: All (#215)
#218. To: GarySpFC (#215)
Jesus and the Zealots. By S. G. F. Brandon. New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1967. xviii + 413 pp.
#219. To: buckeroo (#216)
#220. To: GarySpFC (#219)
He [Jesus] Claimed to Be God
#221. To: buckeroo (#216)
Here is the REAL STUFF, backed by a youtube movie. Jesus was denied plausible merit BECAUSE of the RULING CLASSES (Pharisees&Sadducees) in Jerusalem. You should take this following movie (which is a reenactment of KJV John 8) into context before discussing a very deep subject concerning existence with the expression of "IAM." I should say, do you want to discuss a philosophical viewpoint?
#222. To: buckeroo (#220)
#223. To: GarySpFC (#204)
buckeroo: And, what did you think about the historical perspective from Flavius Josephus that was posted on #165? Isn't it remarckable that the founder of the Zealots was also from Galilee? That they formed for active and hostile assault against the Romans and often incited riotous rebellion amongst the Jews, the Pharisees and Sadducee?
GarySpFC: And John Brown was from Kansas, and i also deplore slavery, but our methods and beliefs are very different. You are barking up the wrong tree.
#224. To: GarySpFC (#221)
"I AM" is God's name.
#225. To: GarySpFC (#222)
Have a nice evening.
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