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Title: What Version of the Christian Holy Bible Do You read?
Source:
LF
URL Source: http://hereandnow
Published: Feb 18, 2012
Author: buckeroo
Post Date: 2012-02-18 17:52:56 by buckeroo
Keywords: None
Views: 289563
Comments: 449
Assuming you have a Christian Holy Bible of one flavor or another, what version do you read? As several examples, here are several variations: the New King James Version, New Living Translation, New International Version, New Revised Standard Version and so forth. Post your comment on this thread.
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#170. To: mininggold (#169)
So you do acknowledge that the America is/was a Christian nation by in large.
And, what did you think about the historical perspective from Flavius Josephus that was posted on #165? Isn't it remarckable that the founder of the Zealots was also from Galilee? That they formed for active and hostile assault against the Romans and often incited riotous rebellion amongst the Jews, the Pharisees and Sadducee? Jesus of Nazareth was guilty of association with the Zealots. And he spoke of both the Pharisees and Sadducees with utter contempt.
Uh No..... only those literate in English, as most Indian tribes were not Christians and most African slaves were secretly practicing their own religions.
Almost every country in the Middle East is awash in oil, and we have to side with the one that has nothing but joos. Goddamn, that was good thinkin'. Esso posted on 2012-01-13 7:37:56 ET
I intended to come back to this comment at a later time. This is that time. Your comment is easily disputed. The Apostles traveled extensively around the Mediterranean Sea. In the process, they spread their respective ministries to different people. This took time for not only their influence to grow but also for folklore (second/third/fourth hand word of mouth) to catch up to those same caches of people. And the more time that went by, the fewer documents that were found as they were lost or destroyed, in fact Jesus of Nazareth was crucified circa ~35 CE but as the Zealots continued their onslaught against the Romans eventually the Sadducees and the Pharisees all merged against the Romans. The Romans in retaliation ravaged Judea/Galilee with the Jews losing, circa ~70 CE. So, there were 35 years of lost documents, growing folklore/hearsay, fierce battles and thousands of crucifixions, not even dealing with Jesus of Nazareth as his Apostles spread the word. This is a ripe opportunity for martyrdom. Judea was in turmoil. The early "Christians" were despised (and murdered) as the Zealots and increasingly the Jews were despised as much. Rome destroyed much of the data that has survived. It is a good thing that some remnants survived as in Alexandria, Egypt (Mark) through the Coptics or there may not be much to view at all. All, the early Christians wee outlawed and met secretly so as to not be persecuted. To summarize, you are not correct about your post. There was ample time for hearsay to fly all over the Mediterranean region, principally the Roman Empire and beyond as a revolution was in active process since Jesus' birth and beyond his death.
Thanks, red. Welcome to LF. You jumped right in and provided some ideas as a resource. Still what Bible do YOU read?
I want to come back to your post#105. As there are some ideas that I want to point out. For most practical purposes of discussion, the "Jewish Torah" is (in fact) the "Christian Old Testament." IT WAS ALL ORAL TRADITION FOR THE JEWS until after their exile into Babylon, circa ~400 BCE. At that point in time they decided to write (re-write) their ORAL Torah. Up until that time, it was all ORAL tradition. From that devastating experiences of disruption and exile to Babylon, upon arriving back to Jerusalem from Babylon, they incorporated large influences (to include the GREAT FLOOD) from the Sumerians/Assyrians and the Egyptians cultures; AND REWROTE THEIR OWN HISTORY. So, the historical records of Judaism is nothing more than a cultural assimilation of other oppressive societies coupled WITH their ORAL TORAH combined with their own collective experiences in social law. The Talmud, written after the Jews lost their rebellion, against the Romans circa ~70 CE, is an attempt to clarify the Torah. It was written sometime between circa ~200- 500 CE. This is after the New Testament by Jerome was written. The Tanakh, embodies the ORAL TORAH which is the canon or core of the Jewish Bible. It is said to be the written embodiment of the Torah (circa ~ 450 BCE) BUT WAS NOT FINISHED until sometime after circa ~70 CE. In a strange twist of bizarre documentation schemes for dating purposes, the Christian NEW TESTAMENT can be said to predate the OLD TESTAMENT or were roughly produced AT NEARLY THE SAME TIME.
The OT is revisionist history from Wolf Blitzer's spin room?
Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice.
Mostly the NKJV and NASB. I always have the KJV handy and used it for years. With APP tools now you can quickly jump from one version to another. My primary means for Bible Study and reading is the YouVersion Bible App. I also take a gander at LOGOS and have several Bibles and Bible commentaries loaded on Kindle. So no more lugging about a ruck sack full of Bibles and commentaries when I am on the move...I now use my Kindle and iPhone. The Kindle is great given you can read it on desktop and on an iPad or iPhone as well.
OK, when was the OT written? Don't take for granted Adam&Eve jotted down some notes on their fig leaves.
As stated earlier in this chapter, the canon is the list of books that are accepted as Holy Scripture. The Old Testament canon was fairly well fixed by the time of the New Testament (the first century A.D.). The last time the Hebrew canon was discussed seems to be the Council of Jamnia (or Yavneh) in A.D. 90. At this gathering the status of several books was discussed, including the Song of Songs and Ecclesiastes. These books had apparently been considered Scripture for some time, but various features about each of these works may have troubled some rabbis. Some discussion over a few books continued in Jewish tradition. It seems, though, that by the first century A.D. the 39 books of the Old Testament were well established as Holy Scripture and had been considered such for some time. Looks like around the 1st century AD before there was an agreed upon OT. About three hundred years before the NT, more or less.
Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice.
I agree, it is an expensive tool. What do you think of hondo68's post #1? He starts off the thread with an excellent comparison between two Bible versions and and analysis. Do you think that Paul's Romans 13:1-7 letter is about being subservient to government?
The Bible both of the Jews and the Christians does NOT date back to Abraham/Sarah, circa ~2000 BCE. Sometime, AFTER circa ~70 CE, it was formulated to the refine states of documentation we read today. And it is still being interpreted because of the lack of agreement on certain passages due to original Hebrew and Greek. I wonder what this means?
Oh, guess that was at the other site. ;) lol.. Anyway- I never said I have read 100 plus Bibles. I said I can read any Bible I want to read- and it all makes perfect sense to me. I can google any Bible I want to- and I do. For the record, the Bible that I took with me to church today is a New Revised Standard Version. I like to cross reference with other Bibles, at times, because I talk with people (mostly pastors) about lots of Old Testament theology. You seem to be fascinated with the idea that Jesus was a rebel. Yes- of course he was. Hey- at least we are getting somewhere- last year you told me Jesus didn't exist- and I told you he was a brilliant rebel, who I thought you would be interested in learning about! :) So YAY! We are making some progress.... awesome. As long as you are reading the word- I think we are doing pretty well, in progression here. If you are interested in the Jewish Jesus- I think that is brilliant. For me, Jesus makes a great deal more sense when we understand the Jewish Jesus. It is a great time of the year to make sense of that,in your studies. God bless you and best wishes.
How?
As I have explained many times before- by way of the Holy Spirit. I have given my life as a living sacrifice to the Lord, giving up addictions and sinful behavior (including a suicide attempt). I started by learning the character of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. I follow the commandments- which is actually really easy to do. I have been baptized in Water and in the Spirit. All of these things came about by my faith. My faith started with a fear of the Lord. My fear of the Lord started with knowing that there was more to this world than what meets the eye. I am now at the point in my journey- after years of work- that I can write down a question and get an answer and a revelation within a few moments. I like to listen to the Bible, sometimes. Read from all different translations. I was listening in Exodus the other day- and I had a need to understand Moses and his motivation, and how Moses did not get frustrated with those people-and I was led, to great understanding- backed up with verses and connections to other parts of the Bible. I pray and ask to be shown things in Scripture. I like it to be sound theology, so that is what I ask for and that is what I get. And I am telling you- that YOU have the same ability I do. I am not standing here as a Bible student- but as a person who was so broken and busted up- that I could barely crawl to church at one point in my life- who has great blessings and deep understanding of the world- all from one simple thing.... trust in Jesus. You want all your questions answered? Ask Jesus yourself. Do not go to anyone else. Look up a sinners prayer- ask Jesus into your life- accept that He died for you- and then simply follow. Jesus was a rebel who can rock your world, better than anything else you are going to find under the sun. Want to know why he was a rebel? Because it is a broken , messed up world and he came to kick it's butt. :) So- it all makes perfect sense to me, because I have the right tool for the job.
You don't believe in a God as in a monotheistic concept. You believe in a "trinity of GODS" as in a polytheistic concept. Why?
I believe in one God- in three *forms of communication*. Everyone , who is honest, struggles with this concept and how to explain it. God is supernatural, so it is very difficult to put into words- but people try and of course no two explanations are the same. Let me try to explain this, from my POV: There is one God. Jesus is a human- who walked the Earth showing us God's ways. The Holy Spirit is the helper, that Jesus left for us when he departed. This is a very simple way of explaining of course. But they are ,three in one. Three separate purposes- one system. One God. I used to be fascinated with Greek mythology. That is more than one God. :)
I think YOU make God out to be more complex within your interpretation than even Hindu practices which at least have a Brahman over ALL other gods.
Oh for sure- God is very complex. He is so complex that we can not even understand Him completely. This I know, Jesus saves. What religion has a savior who saves, blesses and preforms miracles? Jesus saved me- and many people I know. What I am talking about- this faith I have , is not something I have to wait until I am off this Earth to enjoy. I get it now. Right this very second. you would not beleive the blessing I have gotten in one day. And this happens- day after day- month after month- year after year. There is no end to the blessings and peace I have now. THAT is what I would want for you. I have concrete miracles, blessings- signs and wonders. THAT, and I understand the Bible perfectly well. THAT is a miracle in and of itself. Ok- I have to get some things ready for the week- and then I am back to observing Lent.
I'm an Eastern Orthodox Christian. I mainly use KJV, NKJV, or RSV, but of course all of these are translations -- it is best to refer to the original languages when people are able to do so.
Very very simplified. I was raised in the Catholic Church and I learned the Trinity defines God as three distinct persons. However, the are co-existent and co-equal in unity. You have 'the Father' who creates, 'the Son' who is "only begotten;" meaning he is of nature or basically Son of God in a very different sense from that in which men are said to be made by him children of God, and the 'Holy Spirit' which preceeds. While they are distinct from one another in the functions they preform as the unique individuals they are, they are one and the same in all else. That is how I was made to understand this concept to be.
Yes, she is.
What do you base that on shit apple?
And you are baiting because....? I just love how you show your spiritual side by rhetorically shaking your penis in my general direction. Hey, it's no problem to me if you aklways start out by giving away your power. ;-D It shows how black a religious nature you really have.
Can you answer the question shit apple?
Mike- I am in the process of observing Lent, and this coming weekend I am going to the mountains- so I may not be on for awhile, but I wanted to answer this to you. I beleive that you are a spiritual person. Most people into white magic are spiritual beings looking for something that makes sense to their spirit. It is my belief and understanding and experience that the Roman Catholic church does more to harm a person's spirit than it does to free that beautiful spirit. I try not to say negative things about people's religion, BUT- the Roman catholic church is a sore point for me. If you want to talk about that POV , at a latter date- I am glad to. But please- please - please understand this- Jesus loves women. He loves women so much that He showed himself to a woman, first- when He rose. God loves women. Your spirit is not out of the realm with what Jesus was talking about, and with what resonates with your heart. Just food for thought, so don't get upset. and I didn't want you to think I just cruised off- but this is an important and introspective time for me in my faith. I don't want to be online too much in the next few weeks- and miss something. Best wishes. :) And talk soon?
best wishes to you to, and by all means help talk some sense into my immature and anger oriented friend here fixated on shit covered apple if you would. If you could make him less arrogant and revengeful, we all would be grateful ;-D I'm sure you would agree, his sense of religion does no one any good at all.
Hey Mike. Go to HELL! You helped usher in Obama.
So shit apple how do you know there is a goddess? What do you base that on? An acid trip?
We will work with each other, we will work side by side, And they'll know we are Christians by our love, By our love, Anyone claiming to be an expert is selling something. I brandish my ignorance like a crucifix at vampires. Aaron Bady
In the sense of blindly following the evil intentions or actions of a government, the answer is no (e.g. abortion). In the sense of being law abiding, paying taxes etc. yes. That is why it is important to look at the ENTIRE revelation of the Bible for "what do we do" when government is clearly forcing evil on its citizenry. We know that Christians were persecuted and killed for being Christians under Rome. Rome would say "do not assemble" so the body of believers went underground. They did not form a revolution and fight Rome. When the emperor said bow down and worship me, Christians did not obey, they were executed. I think the best OT example we have is in Daniel. I am sure you know well the account of the faithful three Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego. They were "outed" for not bowing to the image of the king. This was their response from Daniel chapter 3: 14 Nebuchadnezzar spoke, saying to them, "Is it true, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego, that you do not serve my gods or worship the gold image which I have set up? 15 Now if you are ready at the time you hear the sound of the horn, flute, harp, lyre, and psaltery, in symphony with all kinds of music, and you fall down and worship the image which I have made, good! But if you do not worship, you shall be cast immediately into the midst of a burning fiery furnace. And who is the god who will deliver you from my hands?" 16 Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego answered and said to the king, "O Nebuchadnezzar, we have no need to answer you in this matter. 17 If that is the case, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and He will deliver us from your hand, O king. 18 But if not, let it be known to you, O king, that we do not serve your gods, nor will we worship the gold image which you have set up."(NKJV) So to the point of bowing to an image of gold, going against what we know from the Word of God is wrong, we are not to obey. When it comes to tax time, yep give Caesar his due. The Blessings of being an American is our Constitution. Our Constitution points to our Declaration of Independence (which is the philosophical foundation of our nation), which points to the Reformation and the Reformation points to the Bible.
And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, do you not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11And white robes were given to every one of them; and it was said to them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brothers, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. 12And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, see, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, even as a fig tree casts her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every slave, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Firstly, that is total nonsense. John the Baptist and Jesus were 10 years old at most when Judas the Zealot lead his rebellion against Rome in 6 AD. Secondly, the Zealot cause of rebellion was in total conflict with Christ's non-violent and submission to ruling authorities (Rome) preaching. Sorry, but your theory is full of holes
OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.
Please show a specific citation where "Jesus the Nazarene" declared himself to be a GOD. The real issue, was Jesus was despised (being from Nazareth) as the Jewish Zealots in Galilee often resided there. As you know, Jesus was taken to Nazareth after being brought back from Egypt to avoid the wrath of Herod. John 8:58, 59 I AM: Jesus was not just claiming to have lived before Abraham; He was claiming eternal existence. He was claiming to be God Himself (see Ex.3:14). This time the Jewish leaders understood that Jesus was claiming to be God, so they took up stones to stone Him for blasphemy (see Lev. 24:16). "I AM" (Gk. egM eimi) (6:35; 8:58; 10:7, 14; 15:1; 18:5) Strong’s #1473; 1510: This expression denotes “self-identity in self-sufficiency.” In one breath, Jesus asserted His eternal preexistence and His absolute deity. Abraham, as with all mortals, came into existence at one point in time. The Son of God, unlike all mortals, never has a beginning. He is eternal; and He is God. This is evident in Jesus’ use of the words “I AM” for Himself. This statement recalls the Septuagint (the Greek Old Testament) translation of Ex. 3:6, 14, in which God unveiled His identity as the “I AM WHO I AM.” Thus, Jesus was claiming to be the ever-existing, self-existent God. BTW, Herod The Great was dead when Joseph and Mary returned with Jesus from Egypt to Nazareth. He was still an infant.
OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.
And, what did you think about the historical perspective from Flavius Josephus that was posted on #165? Isn't it remarckable that the founder of the Zealots was also from Galilee? That they formed for active and hostile assault against the Romans and often incited riotous rebellion amongst the Jews, the Pharisees and Sadducee? Jesus of Nazareth was guilty of association with the Zealots. And he spoke of both the Pharisees and Sadducees with utter contempt. And John Brown was from Kansas, and i also deplore slavery, but our methods and beliefs are very different. You are barking up the wrong tree.
OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.
Sounds like you should be very afraid.
Almost every country in the Middle East is awash in oil, and we have to side with the one that has nothing but joos. Goddamn, that was good thinkin'. Esso posted on 2012-01-13 7:37:56 ET
Why would you think childish and intemperate insults would bother me? You are the one looking shallow and immature here; not me. Mentioning drug use is no bother either, as I do no drug; not even alcohol, nor cigs either. You are very afraid of the first Amendment and the right for people to be a religion other than your own. You also do not believe in voting, or you wouldn't try to treat people voting for two opposing candidates as being in commission of a criminal act. You give away your power at every post you make, and all you do here is have me feeling sorry for you. I wish you luck in learning how to heal what ails you.
Prior to the time of Jesus the books that make up the O.T. Had been complete for many years. These books were on scrolls. Binding pages together as a codex began shortly after the end of the first century.
OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.
The Muslim faith is NOT based on the ten commandments. Muslims claim their connection to Abraham by Ishmael, and the Jews do through Isaac. The latter is without a doubt the son of promise.
OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.
I understand as late as last year you were denying the existence of Jesus similiar to G A Wells" here is what a secular humanist had to say about that nonsense, and it will give you an idea go w far out y our ideas float. G.A.Wells - retired German teacher, amateur theologian and the hyper-skeptics' demigod. Wells is not very well known outside of the skeptical community. It is the curious nature of his ideas which draws attention. There have been Bible scholars who have denied Jesus said the things attributed to him. Few, however, have joined Wells in denying Jesus very existence. Randel Helms, speaking to an audience of secular humanists at a CODESH "Institute for Inquiry" on "A Secular Humanist Approach to the Gospels," said sarcastically, "I think that you can deal with Well's notion that Christianity could have started without a historical Jesus [as follows]: Sure Christianity could have started without a historical Jesus. And monkeys could fly out of my butt."
OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.
Stick around, pal. I shall be addressing your last few posts directed towards me in rebuttal, perhaps as early as tonite. But, your remarck suggested (just above) came from another poster on this thread just over the past few days. And, you modified DBR's point. I don't doubt that Jesus lived and was murdered sometime in the first half of the first century this common era for speaking out against the established Jews and Romans; I don't question these facts. I doubt the authenticity of documentation that supports that he was the MESSIAH, the CHRIST and so forth. I can see we are going somewhere (now) with your rumour on this thread. We shall have a lot fun, too as one of the principal issues for me and perhaps MOST people is about the authenticity of documentation. Christianity (circa, ~35CE) spawned from Judaism (circa, ~2000BCE) and yet there is little authoritative documentation about the coming of the future MESSIAH, except as written after the Babylonian exile (circa, ~450CE) ... this is a significant issue for me. We shall see if you or anyone can help clarify this serious perspective.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestThat's baloney as they were not all Christians, but they were definitely selling it to a Christian audience.
#171. To: GarySpFC (#166)
#172. To: A K A Stone (#170)
(Edited)
So you do acknowledge that the America is/was a Christian nation by in large.
#173. To: A K A Stone, GarySpFC (#167)
(Edited)
GarySpFC: post#156: There wasn't time for myths to develop prior to the writing of the Gospels. Furthermore, there were too many eyewitnesses still alive, and none came forth to refute the Gospel accounts.
#174. To: redleghunter (#168)
Coming in late to this thread. However, on subject below is a good summary I can across in MacDonald's Bible Commentary:
#175. To: GarySpFC, jwpegler, hondo68 (#105)
Btw, the Torah is not oral.
#176. To: buckeroo (#175)
(Edited)
the Christian NEW TESTAMENT can be said to predate the OLD TESTAMENT or were roughly produced AT NEARLY THE SAME TIME.
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#177. To: buckeroo (#174)
Still what Bible do YOU read?
#178. To: hondo68 (#176)
#179. To: buckeroo (#178)
(Edited)
OK, when was the OT written?
The Old Testament Canon
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#180. To: redleghunter (#177)
The Kindle is great
#181. To: hondo68 (#179)
Looks like around the 1st century AD before
#182. To: buckeroo (#101)
#183. To: diva betsy ross (#182)
I said I can read any Bible I want to read- and it all makes perfect sense to me.
#184. To: buckeroo (#183)
(Edited)
#185. To: diva betsy ross (#184)
I started by learning the character of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
#186. To: buckeroo (#185)
(Edited)
#187. To: diva betsy ross (#186)
But they are ,three in one. Three separate purposes- one system. One God.
#188. To: buckeroo (#187)
#189. To: buckeroo (#0)
#190. To: diva betsy ross (#186)
(Edited)
"This is a very simple way of explaining of course."
#191. To: diva betsy ross (#188)
"Oh for sure- God is very complex."
#192. To: Ferret Mike (#191)
she is
#193. To: A K A Stone (#192)
#194. To: Ferret Mike (#193)
#195. To: Ferret Mike (#190)
#196. To: diva betsy ross (#195)
#197. To: Ferret Mike (#196)
I'm sure you would agree, his sense of religion does no one any good at all.
#198. To: Ferret Mike (#193)
#199. To: A K A Stone (#197)
Hey Mike. Go to HELL! You helped usher in Obama.
We will work with each other, we will work side by side,
And we'll guard each man's dignity and save each man's pride;
Yes they'll know we are Christians by our love.
#200. To: buckeroo, hondo68, GarySpFc (#180)
What do you think of hondo68's post #1? He starts off the thread with an excellent comparison between two Bible versions and and analysis. Do you think that Paul's Romans 13:1-7 letter is about being subservient to government?
#201. To: lucysmom (#199)
#202. To: buckeroo (#165)
Judas of Galilee (circa ~ 6 CE) lead a revolt against the Romans. 2000 Jews died and the rub was Jesus of Nazareth (and John the Baptist) were somehow involved with this Jewish Zealot group, hence: death to John and Jesus and the disciples, many of which were originally John the Baptist's disciples.
#203. To: buckeroo (#164)
Jesus was murdered because He claimed to be God.
#204. To: buckeroo (#171)
#205. To: A K A Stone (#201)
And when he had opened the fifth seal,........
#206. To: A K A Stone (#198)
(Edited)
#207. To: buckeroo (#108)
So, if you had a chance to view that video: it is the ORAL LAW not the Bible that establishes the Jewish traditions. Jesus was a Jew, for sure. Why would he reference a document (the Bible) that wasn't around at his time?
#208. To: buckeroo (#144)
Of course. You have actually added to the thread not denying or suggesting otherwise that the three great religions are mutually inclusive from the original Jewish documents, circa ~1250 BCE.
#209. To: buckeroo (#150)
One of my ideas, although not advanced with supporting material (just yet) is that Jesus of Nazareth was caught up in a revolution in Judea at around the time of severe subjugation by both the Romans and Jews. The resultant events created the myths we read, irrespective of the variation of the Bible anyone reads.
#210. To: GarySpFC (#209)
(Edited)
I understand as late as last year you were denying the existence of Jesus
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