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Title: What Version of the Christian Holy Bible Do You read?
Source:
LF
URL Source: http://hereandnow
Published: Feb 18, 2012
Author: buckeroo
Post Date: 2012-02-18 17:52:56 by buckeroo
Keywords: None
Views: 289488
Comments: 449
Assuming you have a Christian Holy Bible of one flavor or another, what version do you read? As several examples, here are several variations: the New King James Version, New Living Translation, New International Version, New Revised Standard Version and so forth. Post your comment on this thread.
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#157. To: buckeroo, *Liberal Rehab Staff* (#150)
He was a wild radical alright! Doesn't seem like the type to drive a Chevy Volt, or favor bailouts.
Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice.
If that is true, how can you have non-Muslims living or even visiting Muslim nations?
Was Herod (pick any of them) a Jew? Remember, Jesus of Nazareth is caught up in this time period ... Jesus is not the object of discussion, however. It is about the Pharisees and Sadducees sharing a subordinate position with Herod/Rome.
Your pic (in a sense) clarifies the reasons for the Romans/Jews to murder Jesus as he did so during an important festival, called the Passover. He kicked BUTT against both Romans and Jews. Of course, Jesus' earlier Sermon on the Mount in Galilee, pissed off a lot of folks, too. He was a REBEL!
Herold was a half Jew.
OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.
Nope, Jesus was murdered because He claimed to be God.
OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.
So, as a Jewish ruler (under Roman control) he built half a temple, 'eh?
Please show a specific citation where "Jesus the Nazarene" declared himself to be a GOD. The real issue, was Jesus was despised (being from Nazareth) as the Jewish Zealots in Galilee often resided there. As you know, Jesus was taken to Nazareth after being brought back from Egypt to avoid the wrath of Herod.
I want to come back to your perspective as it seems to not collaborate historical evidence. Here is Flavius Josephus in Antiquities of the Jews Book 18: Chapter 1.... 2. The Jews had for a great while had three sects of philosophy peculiar to themselves; the sect of the Essens, and the sect of the Sadducees, and the third sort of opinions was that of those called Pharisees; of which sects, although I have already spoken in the second book of the Jewish War, yet will I a little touch upon them now. [note: the Zealots] 3. Now, for the Pharisees, they live meanly, and despise delicacies in diet; and they follow the conduct of reason; and what that prescribes to them as good for them they do; and they think they ought earnestly to strive to observe reason's dictates for practice. They also pay a respect to such as are in years; nor are they so bold as to contradict them in any thing which they have introduced; and when they determine that all things are done by fate, they do not take away the freedom from men of acting as they think fit; since their notion is, that it hath pleased God to make a temperament, whereby what he wills is done, but so that the will of man can act virtuously or viciously. They also believe that souls have an immortal rigor in them, and that under the earth there will be rewards or punishments, according as they have lived virtuously or viciously in this life; and the latter are to be detained in an everlasting prison, but that the former shall have power to revive and live again; on account of which doctrines they are able greatly to persuade the body of the people; and whatsoever they do about Divine worship, prayers, and sacrifices, they perform them according to their direction; insomuch that the cities give great attestations to them on account of their entire virtuous conduct, both in the actions of their lives and their discourses also. 4. But the doctrine of the Sadducees is this: That souls die with the bodies; nor do they regard the observation of any thing besides what the law enjoins them; for they think it an instance of virtue to dispute with those teachers of philosophy whom they frequent: but this doctrine is received but by a few, yet by those still of the greatest dignity. But they are able to do almost nothing of themselves; for when they become magistrates, as they are unwillingly and by force sometimes obliged to be, they addict themselves to the notions of the Pharisees, because the multitude would not otherwise bear them. 5. The doctrine of the Essens is this: That all things are best ascribed to God. They teach the immortality of souls, and esteem that the rewards of righteousness are to be earnestly striven for; and when they send what they have dedicated to God into the temple, they do not offer sacrifices (3) because they have more pure lustrations of their own; on which account they are excluded from the common court of the temple, but offer their sacrifices themselves; yet is their course of life better than that of other men; and they entirely addict themselves to husbandry. It also deserves our admiration, how much they exceed all other men that addict themselves to virtue, and this in righteousness; and indeed to such a degree, that as it hath never appeared among any other men, neither Greeks nor barbarians, no, not for a little time, so hath it endured a long while among them. This is demonstrated by that institution of theirs, which will not suffer any thing to hinder them from having all things in common; so that a rich man enjoys no more of his own wealth than he who hath nothing at all. There are about four thousand men that live in this way, and neither marry wives, nor are desirous to keep servants; as thinking the latter tempts men to be unjust, and the former gives the handle to domestic quarrels; but as they live by themselves, they minister one to another. They also appoint certain stewards to receive the incomes of their revenues, and of the fruits of the ground; such as are good men and priests, who are to get their corn and their food ready for them. They none of them differ from others of the Essens in their way of living, but do the most resemble those Dacae who are called Polistae (4) [dwellers in cities]. 6. But of the fourth sect of Jewish philosophy, Judas the Galilean was the author [the Zealots]. These men agree in all other things with the Pharisaic notions; but they have an inviolable attachment to liberty, and say that God is to be their only Ruler and Lord. They also do not value dying any kinds of death, nor indeed do they heed the deaths of their relations and friends, nor can any such fear make them call any man lord. And since this immovable resolution of theirs is well known to a great many, I shall speak no further about that matter; nor am I afraid that any thing I have said of them should be disbelieved, but rather fear, that what I have said is beneath the resolution they show when they undergo pain. And it was in Gessius Florus's time that the nation began to grow mad with this distemper, who was our procurator, and who occasioned the Jews to go wild with it by the abuse of his authority, and to make them revolt from the Romans. And these are the sects of Jewish philosophy. Judas of Galilee (circa ~ 6 CE) lead a revolt against the Romans. 2000 Jews died and the rub was Jesus of Nazareth (and John the Baptist) were somehow involved with this Jewish Zealot group, hence: death to John and Jesus and the disciples, many of which were originally John the Baptist's disciples.
Founding Fathers Have you ever wondered what happened to those men who signed the Declaration of Independence? Five signers were captured by the British as traitors, and tortured before they died. Twelve had their homes ransacked and burned. Two lost their sons in the Revolutionary Army, another had two sons captured. Nine of the 56 fought and died from wounds or the hardships of the Revolutionary War. What kind of men were they? Twenty-four were lawyers and jurists. Eleven were merchants, nine were farmers and large plantation owners, men of means, well educated. But they signed the Declaration of Independence knowing full well that the penalty would be death if they were captured. In the face of the advancing British Army, the Continental Congress fled from Philadelphia to Baltimore on December 12, 1776. It was an especially anxious time for John Hancock, the President, as his wife had just given birth to a baby girl. Due to the complications stemming from the trip to Baltimore, the child lived only a few months. William Ellery's signing at the risk of his fortune proved only too realistic. In December 1776, during three days of British occupation of Newport, Rhode Island, Ellery's house was burned, and all his property destroyed. Richard Stockton, a New Jersey State Supreme Court Justice, had rushed back to his estate near Princeton after signing the Declaration of Independence to find that his wife and children were living like refugees with friends. They had been betrayed by a Tory sympathizer who also revealed Stockton's own whereabouts. British troops pulled him from his bed one night, beat him and threw him in jail where he almost starved to death. When he was finally released, he went home to find his estate had been looted, his possessions burned, and his horses stolen. Judge Stockton had been so badly treated in prison that his health was ruined and he died before the war's end. His surviving family had to live the remainder of their lives off charity. Carter Braxton was a wealthy planter and trader. One by one his ships were captured by the British navy. He loaned a large sum of money to the American cause; it was never paid back. He was forced to sell his plantations and mortgage his other properties to pay his debts. Thomas McKean was so hounded by the British that he had to move his family almost constantly. He served in the Continental Congress without pay, and kept his family in hiding. Vandals or soldiers or both looted the properties of Clymer, Hall, Harrison, Hopkinson and Livingston. Seventeen lost everything they owned. Thomas Heyward, Jr., Edward Rutledge and Arthur Middleton, all of South Carolina, were captured by the British during the Charleston Campaign in 1780. They were kept in dungeons at the St. Augustine Prison until exchanged a year later. At the Battle of Yorktown, Thomas Nelson, Jr. noted that the British General Cornwallis had taken over the family home for his headquarters. Nelson urged General George Washington to open fire on his own home. This was done, and the home was destroyed. Nelson later died bankrupt. Francis Lewis also had his home and properties destroyed. The British jailed his wife for two months, and that and other hardships from the war so affected her health that she died only two years later. 'Honest John' Hart, a New Jersey farmer, was driven from his wife's bedside when she was near death. Their thirteen children fled for their lives. Hart's fields and his grist mill were laid waste. For over a year he eluded capture by hiding in nearby forests. He never knew where his bed would be the next night and often slept in caves. When he finally returned home, he found that his wife had died, his children disappeared, and his farm and stock were completely destroyed. Hart himself died in 1779 without ever seeing any of his family again. Such were the stories and sacrifices typical of those who risked everything to sign the Declaration of Independence. These men were not wild-eyed, rabble-rousing ruffians. They were soft-spoken men of means and education. They had security, but they valued liberty more. Standing tall, straight, and unwavering, they pledged: 'For the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of the Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other, our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor. Are we any less willing to sacrifice in the fight for freedom? OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.
Jesus of Nazareth was a REBEL There wasn't time for myths to develop prior to the writing of the Gospels. Furthermore, there were too many eyewitnesses still alive, and none came forth to refute the Gospel accounts. OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND. You made this into a good thread Gary. Thanks for participating. I liked your point I read yesterday about deists not being the same as the people who claim they are today. Hope you stick around for other threads.
As several examples, here are several variations: the New King James Version, New Living Translation, New International Version, New Revised Standard Version and so forth. Coming in late to this thread. However, on subject below is a good summary I can across in MacDonald's Bible Commentary: English is blessed with many (perhaps too many!) translations. These fall into four general types: 1. Very literal The "New" (in 1871) Translation of J. N. Darby and the English Revised Version (1881) and its U.S. variant, the American Standard Version (1901) are extremely literal. 2. Complete Equivalence Versions that are quite literal and follow the Hebrew or Greek closely when English allows it, yet still permit a freer translation where good style and idiom demand it, include the KJV, and the RSV, the NASB, and the NKJV. 3.Dynamic Equivalence This type of translation is freer than the complete equivalence type, and sometimes resorts to paraphrase, a valid technique as long as the reader is made aware of it. The Moffatt Translation, NEB, NIV, and the Jerusalem Bible all fall into this category. 4. Paraphrase. A paraphrase seeks to transmit the text thought by thought, yet it often takes great liberties in adding material. Since it is far removed from the original text in wording there is always the danger of too much interpretation. The Living Bible, e.g.,(MacDonald) I am sure others will point out other English language versions and where they fit.
That's baloney as they were not all Christians, but they were definitely selling it to a Christian audience.
Almost every country in the Middle East is awash in oil, and we have to side with the one that has nothing but joos. Goddamn, that was good thinkin'. Esso posted on 2012-01-13 7:37:56 ET
So you do acknowledge that the America is/was a Christian nation by in large.
And, what did you think about the historical perspective from Flavius Josephus that was posted on #165? Isn't it remarckable that the founder of the Zealots was also from Galilee? That they formed for active and hostile assault against the Romans and often incited riotous rebellion amongst the Jews, the Pharisees and Sadducee? Jesus of Nazareth was guilty of association with the Zealots. And he spoke of both the Pharisees and Sadducees with utter contempt.
Uh No..... only those literate in English, as most Indian tribes were not Christians and most African slaves were secretly practicing their own religions.
Almost every country in the Middle East is awash in oil, and we have to side with the one that has nothing but joos. Goddamn, that was good thinkin'. Esso posted on 2012-01-13 7:37:56 ET
I intended to come back to this comment at a later time. This is that time. Your comment is easily disputed. The Apostles traveled extensively around the Mediterranean Sea. In the process, they spread their respective ministries to different people. This took time for not only their influence to grow but also for folklore (second/third/fourth hand word of mouth) to catch up to those same caches of people. And the more time that went by, the fewer documents that were found as they were lost or destroyed, in fact Jesus of Nazareth was crucified circa ~35 CE but as the Zealots continued their onslaught against the Romans eventually the Sadducees and the Pharisees all merged against the Romans. The Romans in retaliation ravaged Judea/Galilee with the Jews losing, circa ~70 CE. So, there were 35 years of lost documents, growing folklore/hearsay, fierce battles and thousands of crucifixions, not even dealing with Jesus of Nazareth as his Apostles spread the word. This is a ripe opportunity for martyrdom. Judea was in turmoil. The early "Christians" were despised (and murdered) as the Zealots and increasingly the Jews were despised as much. Rome destroyed much of the data that has survived. It is a good thing that some remnants survived as in Alexandria, Egypt (Mark) through the Coptics or there may not be much to view at all. All, the early Christians wee outlawed and met secretly so as to not be persecuted. To summarize, you are not correct about your post. There was ample time for hearsay to fly all over the Mediterranean region, principally the Roman Empire and beyond as a revolution was in active process since Jesus' birth and beyond his death.
Thanks, red. Welcome to LF. You jumped right in and provided some ideas as a resource. Still what Bible do YOU read?
I want to come back to your post#105. As there are some ideas that I want to point out. For most practical purposes of discussion, the "Jewish Torah" is (in fact) the "Christian Old Testament." IT WAS ALL ORAL TRADITION FOR THE JEWS until after their exile into Babylon, circa ~400 BCE. At that point in time they decided to write (re-write) their ORAL Torah. Up until that time, it was all ORAL tradition. From that devastating experiences of disruption and exile to Babylon, upon arriving back to Jerusalem from Babylon, they incorporated large influences (to include the GREAT FLOOD) from the Sumerians/Assyrians and the Egyptians cultures; AND REWROTE THEIR OWN HISTORY. So, the historical records of Judaism is nothing more than a cultural assimilation of other oppressive societies coupled WITH their ORAL TORAH combined with their own collective experiences in social law. The Talmud, written after the Jews lost their rebellion, against the Romans circa ~70 CE, is an attempt to clarify the Torah. It was written sometime between circa ~200- 500 CE. This is after the New Testament by Jerome was written. The Tanakh, embodies the ORAL TORAH which is the canon or core of the Jewish Bible. It is said to be the written embodiment of the Torah (circa ~ 450 BCE) BUT WAS NOT FINISHED until sometime after circa ~70 CE. In a strange twist of bizarre documentation schemes for dating purposes, the Christian NEW TESTAMENT can be said to predate the OLD TESTAMENT or were roughly produced AT NEARLY THE SAME TIME.
The OT is revisionist history from Wolf Blitzer's spin room?
Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice.
Mostly the NKJV and NASB. I always have the KJV handy and used it for years. With APP tools now you can quickly jump from one version to another. My primary means for Bible Study and reading is the YouVersion Bible App. I also take a gander at LOGOS and have several Bibles and Bible commentaries loaded on Kindle. So no more lugging about a ruck sack full of Bibles and commentaries when I am on the move...I now use my Kindle and iPhone. The Kindle is great given you can read it on desktop and on an iPad or iPhone as well.
OK, when was the OT written? Don't take for granted Adam&Eve jotted down some notes on their fig leaves.
As stated earlier in this chapter, the canon is the list of books that are accepted as Holy Scripture. The Old Testament canon was fairly well fixed by the time of the New Testament (the first century A.D.). The last time the Hebrew canon was discussed seems to be the Council of Jamnia (or Yavneh) in A.D. 90. At this gathering the status of several books was discussed, including the Song of Songs and Ecclesiastes. These books had apparently been considered Scripture for some time, but various features about each of these works may have troubled some rabbis. Some discussion over a few books continued in Jewish tradition. It seems, though, that by the first century A.D. the 39 books of the Old Testament were well established as Holy Scripture and had been considered such for some time. Looks like around the 1st century AD before there was an agreed upon OT. About three hundred years before the NT, more or less.
Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice.
I agree, it is an expensive tool. What do you think of hondo68's post #1? He starts off the thread with an excellent comparison between two Bible versions and and analysis. Do you think that Paul's Romans 13:1-7 letter is about being subservient to government?
The Bible both of the Jews and the Christians does NOT date back to Abraham/Sarah, circa ~2000 BCE. Sometime, AFTER circa ~70 CE, it was formulated to the refine states of documentation we read today. And it is still being interpreted because of the lack of agreement on certain passages due to original Hebrew and Greek. I wonder what this means?
Oh, guess that was at the other site. ;) lol.. Anyway- I never said I have read 100 plus Bibles. I said I can read any Bible I want to read- and it all makes perfect sense to me. I can google any Bible I want to- and I do. For the record, the Bible that I took with me to church today is a New Revised Standard Version. I like to cross reference with other Bibles, at times, because I talk with people (mostly pastors) about lots of Old Testament theology. You seem to be fascinated with the idea that Jesus was a rebel. Yes- of course he was. Hey- at least we are getting somewhere- last year you told me Jesus didn't exist- and I told you he was a brilliant rebel, who I thought you would be interested in learning about! :) So YAY! We are making some progress.... awesome. As long as you are reading the word- I think we are doing pretty well, in progression here. If you are interested in the Jewish Jesus- I think that is brilliant. For me, Jesus makes a great deal more sense when we understand the Jewish Jesus. It is a great time of the year to make sense of that,in your studies. God bless you and best wishes.
How?
As I have explained many times before- by way of the Holy Spirit. I have given my life as a living sacrifice to the Lord, giving up addictions and sinful behavior (including a suicide attempt). I started by learning the character of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. I follow the commandments- which is actually really easy to do. I have been baptized in Water and in the Spirit. All of these things came about by my faith. My faith started with a fear of the Lord. My fear of the Lord started with knowing that there was more to this world than what meets the eye. I am now at the point in my journey- after years of work- that I can write down a question and get an answer and a revelation within a few moments. I like to listen to the Bible, sometimes. Read from all different translations. I was listening in Exodus the other day- and I had a need to understand Moses and his motivation, and how Moses did not get frustrated with those people-and I was led, to great understanding- backed up with verses and connections to other parts of the Bible. I pray and ask to be shown things in Scripture. I like it to be sound theology, so that is what I ask for and that is what I get. And I am telling you- that YOU have the same ability I do. I am not standing here as a Bible student- but as a person who was so broken and busted up- that I could barely crawl to church at one point in my life- who has great blessings and deep understanding of the world- all from one simple thing.... trust in Jesus. You want all your questions answered? Ask Jesus yourself. Do not go to anyone else. Look up a sinners prayer- ask Jesus into your life- accept that He died for you- and then simply follow. Jesus was a rebel who can rock your world, better than anything else you are going to find under the sun. Want to know why he was a rebel? Because it is a broken , messed up world and he came to kick it's butt. :) So- it all makes perfect sense to me, because I have the right tool for the job.
You don't believe in a God as in a monotheistic concept. You believe in a "trinity of GODS" as in a polytheistic concept. Why?
I believe in one God- in three *forms of communication*. Everyone , who is honest, struggles with this concept and how to explain it. God is supernatural, so it is very difficult to put into words- but people try and of course no two explanations are the same. Let me try to explain this, from my POV: There is one God. Jesus is a human- who walked the Earth showing us God's ways. The Holy Spirit is the helper, that Jesus left for us when he departed. This is a very simple way of explaining of course. But they are ,three in one. Three separate purposes- one system. One God. I used to be fascinated with Greek mythology. That is more than one God. :)
I think YOU make God out to be more complex within your interpretation than even Hindu practices which at least have a Brahman over ALL other gods.
Oh for sure- God is very complex. He is so complex that we can not even understand Him completely. This I know, Jesus saves. What religion has a savior who saves, blesses and preforms miracles? Jesus saved me- and many people I know. What I am talking about- this faith I have , is not something I have to wait until I am off this Earth to enjoy. I get it now. Right this very second. you would not beleive the blessing I have gotten in one day. And this happens- day after day- month after month- year after year. There is no end to the blessings and peace I have now. THAT is what I would want for you. I have concrete miracles, blessings- signs and wonders. THAT, and I understand the Bible perfectly well. THAT is a miracle in and of itself. Ok- I have to get some things ready for the week- and then I am back to observing Lent.
I'm an Eastern Orthodox Christian. I mainly use KJV, NKJV, or RSV, but of course all of these are translations -- it is best to refer to the original languages when people are able to do so.
Very very simplified. I was raised in the Catholic Church and I learned the Trinity defines God as three distinct persons. However, the are co-existent and co-equal in unity. You have 'the Father' who creates, 'the Son' who is "only begotten;" meaning he is of nature or basically Son of God in a very different sense from that in which men are said to be made by him children of God, and the 'Holy Spirit' which preceeds. While they are distinct from one another in the functions they preform as the unique individuals they are, they are one and the same in all else. That is how I was made to understand this concept to be.
Yes, she is.
What do you base that on shit apple?
And you are baiting because....? I just love how you show your spiritual side by rhetorically shaking your penis in my general direction. Hey, it's no problem to me if you aklways start out by giving away your power. ;-D It shows how black a religious nature you really have.
Can you answer the question shit apple?
Mike- I am in the process of observing Lent, and this coming weekend I am going to the mountains- so I may not be on for awhile, but I wanted to answer this to you. I beleive that you are a spiritual person. Most people into white magic are spiritual beings looking for something that makes sense to their spirit. It is my belief and understanding and experience that the Roman Catholic church does more to harm a person's spirit than it does to free that beautiful spirit. I try not to say negative things about people's religion, BUT- the Roman catholic church is a sore point for me. If you want to talk about that POV , at a latter date- I am glad to. But please- please - please understand this- Jesus loves women. He loves women so much that He showed himself to a woman, first- when He rose. God loves women. Your spirit is not out of the realm with what Jesus was talking about, and with what resonates with your heart. Just food for thought, so don't get upset. and I didn't want you to think I just cruised off- but this is an important and introspective time for me in my faith. I don't want to be online too much in the next few weeks- and miss something. Best wishes. :) And talk soon?
best wishes to you to, and by all means help talk some sense into my immature and anger oriented friend here fixated on shit covered apple if you would. If you could make him less arrogant and revengeful, we all would be grateful ;-D I'm sure you would agree, his sense of religion does no one any good at all.
Hey Mike. Go to HELL! You helped usher in Obama.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestJesus of Nazareth was a REBEL!
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#158. To: GarySpFC (#154)
And this Islam calls for everyone in the world to submit to their way of life...Or die.
#159. To: GarySpFC (#151)
Herod was affiliated with the Herodians, and was an evil butcher, even murdering his own sons. Caesar said, "better to be a hog of Herod's than his son."
#160. To: hondo68 (#157)
#161. To: buckeroo (#159)
Herod was affiliated with the Herodians, and was an evil butcher, even murdering his own sons. Caesar said, "better to be a hog of Herod's than his son." Was Herod (pick any of them) a Jew?
#162. To: buckeroo (#160)
Of course, Jesus' earlier Sermon on the Mount in Galilee, pissed off a lot of folks, too. He was a REBEL!
#163. To: GarySpFC (#161)
Herold was a half Jew.
#164. To: GarySpFC (#162)
Jesus was murdered because He claimed to be God.
#165. To: GarySpFC (#162)
Jesus was murdered because He claimed to be God.
1. Now Cyrenius, a Roman senator, and one who had gone through other magistracies, and had passed through them till he had been consul, and one who, on other accounts, was of great dignity, came at this time into Syria, with a few others, being sent by Caesar to be a judge of that nation, and to take an account of their substance. Coponius also, a man of the equestrian order, was sent together with him, to have the supreme power over the Jews. Moreover, Cyrenius came himself into Judea, which was now added to the province of Syria, to take an account of their substance, and to dispose of Archelaus's money; but the Jews, although at the beginning they took the report of a taxation heinously, yet did they leave off any further opposition to it, by the persuasion of Joazar, who was the son of Beethus, and high priest; so they, being over-pesuaded by Joazar's words, gave an account of their estates, without any dispute about it. Yet was there one Judas, a Gaulonite, (1) of a city whose name was Gamala, who, taking with him Sadduc, (2) a Pharisee, became zealous to draw them to a revolt, who both said that this taxation was no better than an introduction to slavery, and exhorted the nation to assert their liberty; as if they could procure them happiness and security for what they possessed, and an assured enjoyment of a still greater good, which was that of the honor and glory they would thereby acquire for magnanimity. They also said that God would not otherwise be assisting to them, than upon their joining with one another in such councils as might be successful, and for their own advantage; and this especially, if they would set about great exploits, and not grow weary in executing the same; so men received what they said with pleasure, and this bold attempt proceeded to a great height. All sorts of misfortunes also sprang from these men, and the nation was infected with this doctrine to an incredible degree; one violent war came upon us after another, and we lost our friends which used to alleviate our pains; there were also very great robberies and murder of our principal men. This was done in pretense indeed for the public welfare, but in reality for the hopes of gain to themselves; whence arose seditions, and from them murders of men, which sometimes fell on those of their own people, (by the madness of these men towards one another, while their desire was that none of the adverse party might be left,) and sometimes on their enemies; a famine also coming upon us, reduced us to the last degree of despair, as did also the taking and demolishing of cities; nay, the sedition at last increased so high, that the very temple of God was burnt down by their enemies' fire. Such were the consequences of this, that the customs of our fathers were altered, and such a change was made, as added a mighty weight toward bringing all to destruction, which these men occasioned by their thus conspiring together; for Judas and Sadduc, who excited a fourth philosophic sect among us, and had a great many followers therein, filled our civil government with tumults at present, and laid the foundations of our future miseries, by this system of philosophy, which we were before unacquainted withal, concerning which I will discourse a little, and this the rather because the infection which spread thence among the younger sort, who were zealous for it, brought the public to destruction.
#166. To: All, Redleghunter (#165)
#167. To: GarySpFC (#156)
One of my ideas, although not advanced with supporting material (just yet) is that Jesus of Nazareth was caught up in a revolution in Judea at around the time of severe subjugation by both the Romans and Jews. The resultant events created the myths we read, irrespective of the variation of the Bible anyone reads.
#168. To: buckeroo, GarySpFc (#0)
Assuming you have a Christian Holy Bible of one flavor or another, what version do you read?
#169. To: GarySpFC (#153)
Baloney! They were Christians.
#170. To: mininggold (#169)
That's baloney as they were not all Christians, but they were definitely selling it to a Christian audience.
#171. To: GarySpFC (#166)
#172. To: A K A Stone (#170)
(Edited)
So you do acknowledge that the America is/was a Christian nation by in large.
#173. To: A K A Stone, GarySpFC (#167)
(Edited)
GarySpFC: post#156: There wasn't time for myths to develop prior to the writing of the Gospels. Furthermore, there were too many eyewitnesses still alive, and none came forth to refute the Gospel accounts.
#174. To: redleghunter (#168)
Coming in late to this thread. However, on subject below is a good summary I can across in MacDonald's Bible Commentary:
#175. To: GarySpFC, jwpegler, hondo68 (#105)
Btw, the Torah is not oral.
#176. To: buckeroo (#175)
(Edited)
the Christian NEW TESTAMENT can be said to predate the OLD TESTAMENT or were roughly produced AT NEARLY THE SAME TIME.
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#177. To: buckeroo (#174)
Still what Bible do YOU read?
#178. To: hondo68 (#176)
#179. To: buckeroo (#178)
(Edited)
OK, when was the OT written?
The Old Testament Canon
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#180. To: redleghunter (#177)
The Kindle is great
#181. To: hondo68 (#179)
Looks like around the 1st century AD before
#182. To: buckeroo (#101)
#183. To: diva betsy ross (#182)
I said I can read any Bible I want to read- and it all makes perfect sense to me.
#184. To: buckeroo (#183)
(Edited)
#185. To: diva betsy ross (#184)
I started by learning the character of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
#186. To: buckeroo (#185)
(Edited)
#187. To: diva betsy ross (#186)
But they are ,three in one. Three separate purposes- one system. One God.
#188. To: buckeroo (#187)
#189. To: buckeroo (#0)
#190. To: diva betsy ross (#186)
(Edited)
"This is a very simple way of explaining of course."
#191. To: diva betsy ross (#188)
"Oh for sure- God is very complex."
#192. To: Ferret Mike (#191)
she is
#193. To: A K A Stone (#192)
#194. To: Ferret Mike (#193)
#195. To: Ferret Mike (#190)
#196. To: diva betsy ross (#195)
#197. To: Ferret Mike (#196)
I'm sure you would agree, his sense of religion does no one any good at all.
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