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Title: The Dirty “little” Secret Of ...The Natural Born Citizen Clause --- Revealed.
Source:
naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com
URL Source: http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress ... -born-citizen-clause-revealed/
Published: Jan 27, 2012
Author: Leo Donofrio
Post Date: 2012-01-27 14:14:32 by BorisY
Keywords: native, naturalized - immigrant, natural - parents
Views: 100916
Comments: 232
Natural Born Citizen Respecting the Constitution The Current INS Officially Recognizes A Delineation Between Natural-Born and Native-Born. The Dirty “little” Secret Of The Natural Born Citizen Clause Revealed. I have emphasized the word “little” because the truth of the law on this issue is very simple, folks. So simple that the mystery is deciphered by application of one of the most clear, concise and undeniable rules of law; the code of statutory construction governs, and therefore, “natural born Citizen” must require something more than being born in the United States. Let me put it to you in appropriately simple language: Clause A = “Only a natural born Citizen may be President.” Clause B = “Anyone born in the United States is a Citizen.” (While these two clauses reflect Article 2, Section 1, and the 14th Amendment, I shall refer to them as “Clause A” and “Clause B” for now.) The code of statutory construction is learned by every student in law school, and every practicing attorney has confronted it. Every judge is required to apply the rule equally to all statutes, and the Constitution. There is no wiggle room at all. The rule states that when a court examines two clauses, unless Congress has made it clear that one clause repeals the other, the court must observe a separate legal effect for each. More specifically, regardless of the chronology of enactment, the general clause can never govern the specific. Clause B is a general rule of citizenship, which states that all persons born in the country are members of the nation. Clause A is a specific clause that says only those members of the nation who are “natural born” may be President. According to the rule of statutory construction, the court must determine that Clause A requires something more than Clause B. It’s truly that simple. This is not some crazy conspiracy theory. It’s not controversial. This is not rocket science. Every single attorney reading this right now knows, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that I have accurately explained the rule of statutory construction to you. Any attorney who denies this rule, is lying. The rule cannot be denied. And its simplicity cannot be ignored. Now let’s see what the United States Supreme Court has to say about the rule: “Where there is no clear intention otherwise, a specific statute will not be controlled or nullified by a general one, regardless of the priority of enactment. See, e. g., Bulova Watch Co. v. United States, 365 U.S. 753, 758 (1961); Rodgers v. United States, 185 U.S. 83, 87 -89 (1902). The courts are not at liberty to pick and choose among congressional enactments, and when two statutes are capable of co-existence, it is the duty of the courts, absent a clearly expressed congressional intention to the contrary, to regard each as effective. “When there are two acts upon the same subject, the rule is to give effect to both if possible . . . The intention of the legislature to repeal `must be clear and manifest.’ ” United States v. Borden Co., 308 U.S. 188, 198 (1939).” Morton v. Mancari, 417 U.S. 535, 550-551 (1974). This is what I mean by no wiggle room – “The courts are not at liberty to pick and choose among congressional enactments…” Any court construing Clause A is not at liberty to assume that Congress intended to put the words “natural born” into Clause B. The general does not govern the specific, and the rule requires the court to “give effect to both if possible”. Is it possible to give separate effect to both Clause A and Clause B? Yes. The Constitution tells us that any Citizen can be a Senator, or Representative, but that to be President one must be a “natural born Citizen”. The Constitution specifically assigns different civic statuses to “Citizens” and “natural born Citizens”. Therefore, not only is it possible to give separate effect to both Clause A and Clause B, it is absolutely required by law, and no court has the ability to circumvent the rule. Had the original framers intended for any “born Citizen” to be eligible to the office of President, they would not have included the word “natural” in the clause. Additionally, had the framers of the 14th Amendment intended to declare that every person born in the country was a “natural born Citizen”, then the 14th Amendment would contain clear and manifest language to that effect. But it doesn’t. Therefore, each clause must be given separate force and effect. Deputy Chief Judge Malihi explained the rule of statutory construction in his denial of candidate Obama’s Motion to Dismiss, wherein his opinion of the Court stated: “Statutory provisions must be read as they are written, and this Court finds that the cases cited by Defendant are not controlling. When the Court construes a constitutional or statutory provision, the ‘first step . . . is to examine the plain statutory language.’ Morrison v. Claborn, 294 Ga. App. 508, 512 (2008). ‘Where the language of a statute is plain and unambiguous, judicial construction is not only unnecessary but forbidden. In the absence of words of limitation, words in a statute should be given their ordinary and everyday meaning.’ Six Flags Over Ga. v. Kull, 276 Ga. 210, 211 (2003) (citations and quotation marks omitted). Because there is no other ‘natural and reasonable construction’ of the statutory language, this Court is ‘not authorized either to read into or to read out that which would add to or change its meaning.‘ Blum v. Schrader, 281 Ga. 238, 240 (2006) (quotation marks omitted).” Order On Motion To Dismiss, Deputy Chief Judge Malihi, Jan. 3, 2012, pg. 3. (Emphasis added.) Therefore, the term “natural born” must be considered as requiring something more than simple birth in the country. And Judge Malihi states, quite clearly, in his ruling above, that the Court “is not authorized to read into or to read out that which would add to or change its meaning.” The rule is the same for election statutes in Georgia as it is for the Constitution of the United States. The rule of statutory construction, with regard to the Constitution, was best stated by Chief Justice Marshall in Marbury v. Madison, 5 U.S. 137 (1803): “It cannot be presumed that any clause in the constitution is intended to be without effect; and therefore such construction is inadmissible, unless the words require it.” Id. 174. (Emphasis added.) If the 14th Amendment was held to declare that all persons born in the country, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, were natural-born citizens, then the “natural born Citizen” clause would be rendered inoperative. It would be superfluous. And its specific provision would, therefore, be governed by the general provision of the 14th Amendment. The United States Supreme Court has determined that it is inadmissible to even make that argument. Any genuine construction of the “natural born Citizen” clause must begin from the starting point that it requires something more than citizenship by virtue of being born on U.S. soil. Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162 (1874), tells you exactly what that something is; citizen parents. Leo Donofrio, Esq. [For a more detailed analysis of this issue, please see my Amicus Brief entered in the Georgia POTUS eligibility cases.] [See commenting rules here.]
Poster Comment: People who can't figure this out shouldn't be allowed to vote - citizenship !
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#109. To: A K A Stone (#105)
(Edited)
And her being a woman, and you a male, she has no right to chose not to respond to your obsessive baiting, which if answer to you would still not be happy with the answer anyway, and she would be subject to later be called a liar on it if she made you unhappy with another view she holds on something else. Remember, you are calling me a liar on the topic for something that has nothing to do with abortion. Why should anyone believe you on this topic when you are such a rabid lunatic on the matter?
Whatever you want to call it. The point remains that you refuse to let people not be baited by you or you will ban their account. Remember, you have given me several ban screens, from suspension to one stating I was permanently deleted. So when you split hairs with me on the verbiage concerning this matter, it means nothing to me.
You heard him gold. You have no right not to respond. So get your tail from between your legs and tell us if it is the truth why you don't like the practice known as abortion. I still think you are lying.
If she gave me an honest answer I would accept it as her opinion. I think she is trying to think up something but she can't think what to say to a question any third grader could answer.
That is what I said you are saying to her, thus the bait remains the same, it just gets shriller as the mental tyke doing it gets his diapers in such a knot, the baiting gets shriller.
No one has to answer any question you just because you want them too.
Then I will have to speculate as to the reason. Here are the choices. 1. She was lying and really loves the concept of abortion. 2. She had an abortion and is ashamed to admit it. 3. Someone in her family had an abortion and she doesn't want to talk about it. 4. She doesn't really have an opinion and just says anything. 5. She thinks it is the murder of an innocent precious human life. Can you think of any other choices?
Speculation is just speculation. You already reduce your veracity by speculating I am a liar merely for voting for a particular man who has stated he does not like abortion and discourages the practices, but does not want the procedure made illegal. I dare say you can speculate all you want, but we all would be more impressed and moved by you doing a you tube video of you farting to the tune of Yankee Doodle Dandy than by an speculations you make at this point. And the fact you have thusly hurt your own veracity in this manner is your doing, no one else's.
Yes you are lying. Obama never discouraged an abortion. He put all tax payers on the table for funding government sponsored child murder. The guy is evil. And people like you did this to us Mike.
If that's what you want to think, go for it...... But.... Why is it then that abortion is just being using as a tool to "clean up the mess" caused by a total lack of cognitive thought????? About 90% or more of abortions procedures done are for that very reason instead of what it should be used for.... That's why some people find abortion disgusting and those who are pro-abortion to be lacking morals.....
Quiz of the Day: Who made the statement "The world would be a better place if only Men were to vote?????? HINT: It was a woman!!!
Please mininggold, the commissar needs an answer.
He who knows best knows how little he knows. Thomas Jefferson We probably will see widespread civil disorder in the 1980s, as a direct result of our faltering economic system. Ron Paul
True, he's been trying to move onto the next half baked demand for an answer to a yet unrevealed insane question for months now. How can you keep the lad waiting like that?
When you folks feel some sort of empathy for the post natal care of babies and children then you can lecture me about morals.
I'll believe that a corporation is a person 1 second after Texas executes one...
This is related to what I said before about total lack of cognitive thought process..... They put themselve into a situation they don't know how or want to deal with..... If they had stopped to "REALLY" think about what they were doing instead of the "Do it if it feels good" attitude then the abortion and/or the post natal abuse would have been avoided..... But then again why think, that takes too much time, effort and common sense...... something that is sorely lacking in todays world..... hence the popularity of abortion, the solution for terminal stupidity!!!!!!!!
Quiz of the Day: Who made the statement "The world would be a better place if only Men were to vote?????? HINT: It was a woman!!!
What has that got to do with the conservative's lack of care and concern for babies and children.
He who knows best knows how little he knows. Thomas Jefferson We probably will see widespread civil disorder in the 1980s, as a direct result of our faltering economic system. Ron Paul
You "ASSUME" that "SOME" Conservatives don't care about a babies welfare just because they oppose abortion!!!! Do you want to give the baby a chance to have the chance at a happy life (foster homes are an option) or do you just think it's easier to have the baby blendered???? But the point is "THINK" before you drop your britches!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quiz of the Day: Who made the statement "The world would be a better place if only Men were to vote?????? HINT: It was a woman!!!
Do you want to give the baby a chance to have the chance at a happy life (foster homes are an option) or do you just think it's easier to have the baby blendered???? But the point is "THINK" before you drop your britches!!!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe having young children working as janitors is the conservative idea of how to 'care' for children. Is that a standard practice in your adopted country of Israel?
Almost every country in the Middle East is awash in oil, and we have to side with the one that has nothing but joos. Goddamn, that was good thinkin'. Esso posted on 2012-01-13 7:37:56 ET
adopted country of Israel? You really want a little Israeli janitor kid for a slave don't you?
Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice.
For each abortion there's a distinct story. Some may be as you characterize. But you can;t paint with that broad brush. Did you know that Santorum and his wife had an abortion? The reason was VERY common.
I'll believe that a corporation is a person 1 second after Texas executes one...
I'm sorry.... weren't you the one who insinuated all kids need to work for their room and board? And that anything less is dratted socialism.
Almost every country in the Middle East is awash in oil, and we have to side with the one that has nothing but joos. Goddamn, that was good thinkin'. Esso posted on 2012-01-13 7:37:56 ET
No, you're halucinating again.
Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice.
Then you will agree that the normal family unit is pretty much socialistic.
Almost every country in the Middle East is awash in oil, and we have to side with the one that has nothing but joos. Goddamn, that was good thinkin'. Esso posted on 2012-01-13 7:37:56 ET
No, just wondering how you can argue right to life and against right to health care.
He who knows best knows how little he knows. Thomas Jefferson We probably will see widespread civil disorder in the 1980s, as a direct result of our faltering economic system. Ron Paul
Well I see the spin doctor is alive and well today....... So just because I don't hate Jews like you do, you think that I've fallen in love with them..... Interesting assumption.....
Quiz of the Day: Who made the statement "The world would be a better place if only Men were to vote?????? HINT: It was a woman!!!
Why are we letting someone who has shown they lack cognitive thought decide if the child should live or die?????? Only a small percentage of abortions are done because of health problems to the child/mother or because of rape/incest..... So why then does the child have to die just because it's mother is stupid???? Why doesn't it have the right to live???? I don't have a problem with people getting HealthCare as long as they can pay for the services and the bureaucrats stay the hell out of it!!!!
Quiz of the Day: Who made the statement "The world would be a better place if only Men were to vote?????? HINT: It was a woman!!!
So just because I don't hate Jews like you do, you think that I've fallen in love with them..... Interesting assumption..... You must mean yourself since there's nothing false about my statement, or my description of much of your posting history, as was proven by your very post. You need to ask yourself why is Israel so sacred to you, that you overlook in that country the same practices that you claim to dislike in this one? Notice how I happen to not cram all Jews into the Israeli camp.
Almost every country in the Middle East is awash in oil, and we have to side with the one that has nothing but joos. Goddamn, that was good thinkin'. Esso posted on 2012-01-13 7:37:56 ET
So is that why you hate them????? Because they do what you support here????
Quiz of the Day: Who made the statement "The world would be a better place if only Men were to vote?????? HINT: It was a woman!!!
No.... I meant you...... How is letting a child live such a bad thing???? Why don't you explain to me why it is...... I didn't know working for a living was such a bad thing either???? Why don't you explain to me why it is...... Next thing you're going to say is others sharing your air is a bad thing!!!! I thought you guys were all about sharing others possessions???? By the way who said Newt was a Conservative anyway????? (Oh yea that's right those who "THINK" they are and the Leftards)!!!!
Quiz of the Day: Who made the statement "The world would be a better place if only Men were to vote?????? HINT: It was a woman!!!
I don't have a problem with people getting HealthCare as long as they can pay for the services and the bureaucrats stay the hell out of it!!!! However if a unborn child happens to occupy the womb of one of your stupid mothers too poor to afford pre-natal medical care then it's ok for that baby to die of a treatable medical condition, right?
He who knows best knows how little he knows. Thomas Jefferson We probably will see widespread civil disorder in the 1980s, as a direct result of our faltering economic system. Ron Paul
No they didn't. You're reading that wrong. They had to allow 'citizens' to be president in the beginning, because there were no 35 year old natural born citizens. The only 'natural born citizens' were citizens born after the adoption of the Articles of Confederation. The AOC was formally ratified in 1781. In 1787, when the Constitution was ratified, the only natural born citizens around were 6 or younger.
“Every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen.” (Cong. Globe, 39th, 1st Sess., 1291 (1866)) Rep. John A. Bingham, the author behind the equal protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, in comments about Section 1992 of the Revised Statutes. ****************************************************************************** At a Judiciary Committee hearing on April 3, Leahy asked Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, himself a former Federal judge, if he had doubts that McCain was eligible to serve as President. “My assumption and my understanding is that if you are born of American parents, you are naturally a natural-born American citizen,” Chertoff replied. “That is mine, too,” said Leahy. www.leahy.senate.gov/pres...d4-440e-b53d-754f5bb58983 Both parents must be citizens of the US in order for their offspring to be natural born citizens.
Uh...no...I'm not. They had to allow 'citizens' to be president in the beginning, because there were no 35 year old natural born citizens. They Framers conferred US citizenship on all people alive and on the soil of the US. After that, anyone born on the soil of the US, those born into servitude and Indians excepted, was a natural born citizen. Anyone who immigrated was subject to Congress' Article I powers regarding immigration and naturalization. There is nothing in the USCON and there is nothing in case or administrative law that creates that mythical third class of citizen. That's N-O-T-H-I-N-G.
I'll believe that a corporation is a person 1 second after Texas executes one...
born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty
Nothing that you posted lends any credence to that being either a logical or legal conclusion. There was no corollary statement "but if one or both parents are not American then the offspring is not natural born". Nor does it state "My assumption and my understanding is that if you are born of American parents, you are naturally a natural-born American citizen and if they are not then the offspring are not,” Chertoff replied. IN other words, you're making a leap over a very, very wide chasm of logic. Natural BORN not NATURAL BORN PARENTS.
I'll believe that a corporation is a person 1 second after Texas executes one...
Yea so? Neither England nor Kenya had or has any claim to a baby born to non-diplomats in the US. Nor was Obama, Sr. compelled under any US, British or Kenyan law to abrogate the US citizenship rights of Barack II. The test of natural born citizenship is if the child, at birth, has the full rights, privileges and immunities of any other citizen. I don't know what is worse, the fact that "your" argument is weak or that "you" don't realize how weak it is.
I'll believe that a corporation is a person 1 second after Texas executes one...
Who says I hate them? Who I detest are posters too chickenshit to even dare criticize the hold they have over this country. So... where did you meet Stone, at your local mental hospital? Because you both act like borderlines.
Almost every country in the Middle East is awash in oil, and we have to side with the one that has nothing but joos. Goddamn, that was good thinkin'. Esso posted on 2012-01-13 7:37:56 ET
The very clause that you posted above distinguishes between a citizen and a natural born citizen.... No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States. If their intention was to allow any citizen to be eligible for the office, then the entire first sentence in the clause above wouldn't have been necessary. Read the Federalist Papers. They were intent on keeping foreign influence "out of our councils". The fact that this constitutional issue, along with many, many others has been bastardized over the years doesn't change the original intent.
IN other words, you're making a leap over a very, very wide chasm of logic. If a person says "the sky is blue" does that mean that the sky is not blue because the statement didn't include the phrase "and the sky is not red"? It is specifically stated in the clause that you posted. There is a difference between a citizen and a natural born citizen. If there is no difference, why use both terms in the same sentence? You may want to read... again, the Law of Nations, posted here at Constitution.org.
I would be happy if the Israelis would simply stop bullying, beating and imprisoning Palestinian Arab kids to get back at their older siblings or as a vehicle to torture these families on the whole enough to make them flee their homeland like the Nazis did to Jewish people before the Shoah.
And I know that you're going to bring up British common law, but does it make sense that the Framers of the US Constitution would rely on the common law of the King whom they rebelled against, or 'natural law' which they refer to many times?
Only in so far as the USCON confers citizenship on all those present on the soil at the time of the adoption to make them eligible for POTUS versus all those who shall be subsequently born on the soil AFTER the adoption. It makes no other distinction or qualification, e.g. immmigrants who arrived AFTER the adoption and had children. Hilarious that you would believe that the Framers tolerated non-natural born citizens being POTUS at the onset of this nation but then wouldn't tolerate Obama, who was born in Hawaii, as being eligible...
I'll believe that a corporation is a person 1 second after Texas executes one...
Comments (150 - 232) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest"I wanted to know how you came to that conclusion."
#110. To: A K A Stone (#108)
"No I would just suspend her."
#111. To: Ferret Mike, mininggold (#109)
she has no right to chose not to respond to your obsessive baiting,
#112. To: Ferret Mike (#109)
which if answer to you would still not be happy with the answer anyway
#113. To: A K A Stone (#111)
#114. To: A K A Stone (#112)
(Edited)
#115. To: Ferret Mike (#114)
No one has to answer any question you just because you want them too.
#116. To: A K A Stone (#115)
(Edited)
#117. To: Ferret Mike (#116)
I am a liar merely for voting for a particular man who has stated he does not like abortion and discourages the practices, but does not want the procedure made illegal.
#118. To: war (#76)
You folks have been so brainwashed that you believe that anyone who is pro-choice finds abortion to be preferable to anything else.
#119. To: A K A Stone, mininggold (#103)
The question I asked is why you don't like that practice. I asked to understand your reasoning better. That way I can be accurate in defining you. You being apparently ashamed to answer the question is what leads to the speculation.
#120. To: lucysmom (#119)
#121. To: CZ82 (#118)
#122. To: war (#121)
When you folks feel some sort of empathy for the post natal care of babies and children then you can lecture me about morals.
#123. To: CZ82 (#122)
This is related to what I said before about total lack of cognitive thought process..... They put themselve into a situation they don't know how or want to deal with..... If they had stopped to "REALLY" think about what they were doing instead of the "Do it if it feels good" attitude then the abortion and/or the post natal abuse would have been avoided.....
#124. To: lucysmom (#123)
What has that got to do with the conservative's lack of care and concern for babies and children
#125. To: CZ82 (#124)
You "ASSUME" that "SOME" Conservatives don't care about a babies welfare just because they oppose abortion!!!!
#126. To: mininggold, CZ82, *Liberal Rehab Staff* (#125)
(Edited)
children working as janitor
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#127. To: CZ82 (#122)
#128. To: hondo68 (#126)
You really want a little Israeli janitor kid for a slave don't you?
#129. To: mininggold, *Arab Spring Jihad* (#128)
weren't you the one who insinuated all kids need to work for their room and board?
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#130. To: hondo68 (#129)
No, you're halucinating again.
#131. To: CZ82 (#124)
You "ASSUME" that "SOME" Conservatives don't care about a babies welfare just because they oppose abortion!!!!
#132. To: mininggold (#125)
Maybe having young children working as janitors is the conservative idea of how to 'care' for children. Is that a standard practice in your adopted country of Israel?
#133. To: lucysmom (#131)
No, just wondering how you can argue right to life and against right to health care.
#134. To: CZ82 (#132)
(Edited)
Well I see the spin doctor is alive and well today.......
#135. To: mininggold (#134)
You need to ask yourself why is Israel so sacred to you, that you overlook in that country the same practices that you claim to dislike in this one?
#136. To: mininggold (#134)
(Edited)
You must mean yourself since there's nothing false about my statement, or my description of much of your posting history, as was proven by your very post.
#137. To: CZ82 (#133)
So why then does the child have to die just because it's mother is stupid???? Why doesn't it have the right to live????
#138. To: war (#10)
They used "natural born" to distinguish from those born prior to the USCON's adoption.
#139. To: war (#138)
#140. To: We The People (#138)
No they didn't. You're reading that wrong.
#141. To: war (#140)
#142. To: We The People (#139)
Both parents must be citizens of the US in order for their offspring to be natural born citizens.
#143. To: A K A Stone (#141)
(Edited)
born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty
#144. To: CZ82 (#135)
(Edited)
So is that why you hate them????? Because they do what you support here????
#145. To: war (#140)
There is nothing in the USCON and there is nothing in case or administrative law that creates that mythical third class of citizen.
#146. To: war (#142)
(Edited)
Nothing that you posted lends any credence to that being either a logical or legal conclusion. There was no corollary statement "but if one or both parents are not American then the offspring is not natural born". Nor does it state "My assumption and my understanding is that if you are born of American parents, you are naturally a natural-born American citizen and if they are not then the offspring are not,” Chertoff replied.
#147. To: mininggold (#128)
"I'm sorry.... weren't you the one who insinuated all kids need to work for their room and board? And that anything less is dratted socialism."
#148. To: war (#146)
#149. To: We The People (#146)
(Edited)
There is a difference between a citizen and a natural born citizen.
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