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Economy
See other Economy Articles

Title: Ron Paul and the Banks
Source: New York Times
URL Source: http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/05/ron-paul-and-the-banks/
Published: Jan 5, 2012
Author: SIMON JOHNSON
Post Date: 2012-01-07 11:44:30 by lucysmom
Keywords: None
Views: 4587
Comments: 13

We should take Ron Paul seriously. The Texas congressman had an impressive showing in the Iowa caucuses on Tuesday and his poll numbers elsewhere are resilient – he is running a strong third among Republicans nationally and is currently second in New Hampshire polling. He may well become the Republican candidate with populist momentum and energy in the weeks ahead.

Mr. Paul also has a clearly articulated view on the American banking system, laid out forcefully in his 2009 book, “End the Fed.” This book and its bottom-line recommendation that the United States should return to the gold standard – and abolish the Federal Reserve System – tend to be dismissed out of hand by many. That’s a mistake, because Mr. Paul makes many sensible and well-informed points.

But there is a curious disconnect between his diagnosis and his proposed cure, and this disconnect tells us a great deal about why this version of populism from the right is unlikely to make much progress in its current form.

snip

Would abolishing the Fed really create a paradise for entrepreneurial banking start-ups, enabling them to challenge and overthrow the megabanks?

Or would it just concentrate even more power in the hands of the largest financial players? It is hard to find a moment of greater inequality of power than that of the Gilded Age of the late 1800s – with the gold standard and the associated credit system firmly working to the advantage of J.P. Morgan and his colleagues.

Mr. Paul insists that “in a competitive and free system, deposits would not be unsafe; any that were not paid back that were promised would fall under the laws of protection against fraud” (Page 27).

snip

Ending the Fed – even if that were possible or desirable – would not end the problem of too-big-to-fail banks. The only credible way to threaten not to bail them out is to insist that even the largest bank is not big enough to bring down the financial system.

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#1. To: lucysmom (#0)

Ending the Fed – even if that were possible or desirable

The Federal Reserve is clearly unconstitutional. Can you acknowledge that?

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-01-07   11:46:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: A K A Stone (#1)

The Federal Reserve is clearly unconstitutional. Can you acknowledge that?

No.

It is not clear to me that the fed is unconstitutional, nor have I heard a convincing argument supporting that position. Perhaps you would make such an argument now?

Economics is a social phenomenon and in no way a “science”, no matter how desperately its high priests would like to have it believed otherwise. It is, instead, a branch of anthropology and the sooner that is recognized and accepted, the better off human-kind in general and the world of academic economics, in particular, shall be proximity1

We probably will see widespread civil disorder in the 1980s, as a direct result of our faltering economic system. Ron Paul

lucysmom  posted on  2012-01-07   12:08:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: lucysmom (#2)

A K A Stone: The Federal Reserve is clearly unconstitutional. Can you acknowledge that?

loonybitch: No.

This simple answer demonstrates you lack any fundamental understanding of economics- micro or macro.

All your statements are based on bullshit, because you're either willfully ignorant or unable to accept reality. In other words, you're either stupid or insane.

But of course, I've known this for quite some time, and why I call you loonybitch, et.al. The true victim of your stupidity, is Lucy.

Pity.

“Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say 'what should be the reward of such sacrifices?' Bid us and our posterity bow the knee, supplicate the friendship and plough, and sow, and reap, to glut the avarice of the men who have let loose on us the dogs of war to riot in our blood and hunt us from the face of the earth? If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!” -- Samuel Adams --

Capitalist Eric  posted on  2012-01-07   13:08:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Capitalist Eric (#3)

This simple answer demonstrates you lack any fundamental understanding of economics- micro or macro.

All your statements are based on bullshit, because you're either willfully ignorant or unable to accept reality. In other words, you're either stupid or insane.

But of course, I've known this for quite some time, and why I call you loonybitch, et.al. The true victim of your stupidity, is Lucy.

Pity.

Instead of your typical whining why don't you show the facts in favor of your argument.

"ROTFLMAO... Perfect! She longs... for someone to Teabag her. a man that squats on top of a women's face and lowers his genitals into her mouth during sex, known as "teabagging" She aches for it"... ~~~JWpegler. Head Tea Bagger and Tea Party supporter extraordinaire, explicitly expressing his fantasies in public about other posters.

mininggold  posted on  2012-01-07   13:10:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: lucysmom (#2)

The Federal Reserve is clearly unconstitutional. Can you acknowledge that?

No.

It is not clear to me that the fed is unconstitutional, nor have I heard a convincing argument supporting that position. Perhaps you would make such an argument now?

Oh that is easy. Here is the power congress was given by the constitution. Lets see if you are an honest lib.

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-01-07   13:42:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: lucysmom (#2)

No.

It is not clear to me that the fed is unconstitutional, nor have I heard a convincing argument supporting that position. Perhaps you would make such an argument now?

It's actually a very simple argument.

Article 1 - The Legislative Branch

Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power...

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

In legal terms and contracts, 'shall have' is an imperative command or absolute. It means that Congress SHALL HAVE that power and cannot delegate that power.

13.1 Shall, should, may, and can

The word shall is used to indicate mandatory requirements strictly to be followed in order to conform to the standard and from which no deviation is permitted (shall equals is required to). The use of the word must is deprecated and shall not be used when stating mandatory requirements; must is used only to describe unavoidable situations. The use of the word will is deprecated and shall not be used when stating mandatory requirements; will is only used in statements of fact.

The word should is used to indicate that among several possibilities one is recommended as particularly suitable, without mentioning or excluding others; or that a certain course of action is preferred but not necessarily required; or that (in the negative form) a certain course of action is deprecated but not prohibited (should equals is recommended that).

english.stackexchange.com...an-unquestionable-command

In the context of a nations legal Constitution, 'shall have' is mandatory and is an imperative command from which no deviation is permitted.

We The People  posted on  2012-01-07   13:56:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: lucysmom (#2)

Federalist Paper #44

The right of coining money, which is here taken from the States, was left in their hands by the Confederation, as a concurrent right with that of Congress, under an exception in favor of the exclusive right of Congress to regulate the alloy and value. In this instance, also, the new provision is an improvement on the old. Whilst the alloy and value depended on the general authority, a right of coinage in the particular States could have no other effect than to multiply expensive mints and diversify the forms and weights of the circulating pieces. The latter inconveniency defeats one purpose for which the power was originally submitted to the federal head; and as far as the former might prevent an inconvenient remittance of gold and silver to the central mint for recoinage, the end can be as well attained by local mints established under the general authority.

"The right of coining money, which is here taken from the States, was left in their hands by the Confederation, as a concurrent right with that of Congress, under an exception in favor of the exclusive right of Congress to regulate the alloy and value."

usgovinfo.about.com/library/fed/blfed44.htm

We The People  posted on  2012-01-07   14:26:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: mininggold (#4)

Instead of your typical whining why don't you show the facts in favor of your argument.

I've lost any inclination to present you bimbos with facts.

I've done so repeatedly, and you've made it clear that you are both impervious to logic and reason.

See posts 6 and 7- others still seem to feel enough pity for you, to attempt to educate you.

“Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say 'what should be the reward of such sacrifices?' Bid us and our posterity bow the knee, supplicate the friendship and plough, and sow, and reap, to glut the avarice of the men who have let loose on us the dogs of war to riot in our blood and hunt us from the face of the earth? If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!” -- Samuel Adams --

Capitalist Eric  posted on  2012-01-07   17:55:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: A K A Stone (#5)

Here is the power congress was given by the constitution.

The First Bank of the United States was created by Congress in 1791 and signed into law by George Washington.

Founding fathers who signed the Constitution of the United States and who later were members of the Congress that created the first central bank of the US.

Abraham Baldwin, Daniel Carroll, George Clymer, Thomas Fitzsimons, Nicholas Gilman, Roger Sherman, Hugh Williamson, Richard Bassett, William Few, William Samuel Johnson, Rufus King, John Langdon, Robert Morris, William Paterson, George Read, and last but not least, George Washington who was president of the Convention and later, president of the US.

How could they have gotten so wrong the supreme law of the land they had created? What does that say about intent.

Economics is a social phenomenon and in no way a “science”, no matter how desperately its high priests would like to have it believed otherwise. It is, instead, a branch of anthropology and the sooner that is recognized and accepted, the better off human-kind in general and the world of academic economics, in particular, shall be proximity1

We probably will see widespread civil disorder in the 1980s, as a direct result of our faltering economic system. Ron Paul

lucysmom  posted on  2012-01-07   20:02:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: lucysmom (#9)

I have to say, I expected a better rebuttal and counterpoints.

I expected you to post the SCOTUS finding in McCulloch v. Maryland (1819) or Osborn v. Bank of the United States (1824).

We The People  posted on  2012-01-07   21:02:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: lucysmom (#9)

I think you are confused. We are talking about the Federal Reserve.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-01-07   21:36:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Capitalist Eric (#3)

A K A Stone: The Federal Reserve is clearly unconstitutional. Can you acknowledge that?

loonybitch: No.

This simple answer demonstrates you lack any fundamental understanding of economics- micro or macro.

The question had to do with the Constitutionality of the Federal Reserve - nothing about macro or micro economics.

All your statements are based on bullshit, because you're either willfully ignorant or unable to accept reality. In other words, you're either stupid or insane.

Goldi said pretty much the same thing when she banned me.

But of course, I've known this for quite some time, and why I call you loonybitch, et.al.

Spoken like the gentleman and scholar you are.

Economics is a social phenomenon and in no way a “science”, no matter how desperately its high priests would like to have it believed otherwise. It is, instead, a branch of anthropology and the sooner that is recognized and accepted, the better off human-kind in general and the world of academic economics, in particular, shall be proximity1

We probably will see widespread civil disorder in the 1980s, as a direct result of our faltering economic system. Ron Paul

lucysmom  posted on  2012-01-07   21:43:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: A K A Stone (#11)

We are talking about the Federal Reserve.

Yes, what do you think the Federal Reserve is?

Economics is a social phenomenon and in no way a “science”, no matter how desperately its high priests would like to have it believed otherwise. It is, instead, a branch of anthropology and the sooner that is recognized and accepted, the better off human-kind in general and the world of academic economics, in particular, shall be proximity1

We probably will see widespread civil disorder in the 1980s, as a direct result of our faltering economic system. Ron Paul

lucysmom  posted on  2012-01-07   21:45:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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