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Title: European Health Care: Economic Malpractice
Source:
AT.com
URL Source: http://www.americanthinker.com/2011 ... care_economic_malpractice.html
Published: Jan 1, 2012
Author: Hugh de Payns
Post Date: 2012-01-01 10:26:02 by CZ82
Keywords: None
Views: 35836
Comments: 79
European Health Care: Economic Malpractice By Hugh de Payns Any reasonable person does not take satisfaction in the failure and destruction of another. This is especially true when the other is innocent of any wrongdoing or lack of judgment. Yet sometimes, epic failure can constructively serve as an example of what not to do. If the individual states of our nation are a laboratory of democracy, then the states of Europe are the laboratory of socialism. What we are witness to in Greece, and eventually in Spain, Italy, and possibly France, is the painful death of the welfare state. Credit markets are locking up all over the continent; meanwhile, trillions have been pumped into their banks in an effort to keep them afloat. But their situation is so bad that they cannot even take the risk of making business loans. Employment is shrinking, and tax revenues are falling. Internally, the socialist cash-machine is running empty as other people's money dries up. It is all happening just as reader of American Thinker foresaw. The welfare state's demise, long inevitable, will be painful and ugly, and it will harshly impact the weakest and the most innocent of the population. After all, the welfare state defies the laws of economics and the laws of mathematics. Take notice as the liberal and socialist agitators and pundits shake their collectivized fists at the sky and curse the gods without any noticeable change. The facts on the ground will do what they will, despite rhetoric or political pontifications coming from any quarter. One of the first organs to fail is the socialized health care program. No matter its stated merits, a serious and impactful socialized medicine program is simply too expensive for any state to long sustain. For months prior to the passing of ObamaCare, we were told -- repeatedly -- how it would "bend the cost curve downward" and open up better health care for millions of Americans...all at the same time! The problem is that the pundits on the left at the time and still today don't even believe their own rhetoric. In fact, they are either living in a fantasy land that never existed or simply lying. Back in May 2010, bluegrasspundit made mention of the total hypocrisy of the left with regard to ObamaCare. After shilling for ObamaCare for months, the New York Times is now telling Greece getting out of the health care marketplace would allow health care costs to come down. The hypocrisy of the left is simple astounding. The NY Times also made mention of the total impossibility of it all. Another reform high on the list is removing the state from the marketplace in crucial sectors like health care, transportation and energy and allowing private investment. What is also important to make note of is that these socialized countries do not have the traditional bogeyman that leftists point their finger at: a revenue-hungry military. The Greek military is small to the point of insignificance. The same is true with Spain, Italy, and most others on the continent. Their defensive needs were being functionally met and subsidized by the United States. A recent article by the NY Times makes for overwhelming evidence of the disruption and pain this transformation causes to the innocent and the disadvantaged. While the article is slanted politically, it is worth reading in its entirety; the reader must realize that this will happen in other European nations, and eventually here in the U.S. should we be so foolish as to follow their example. At public hospitals, doctors report shortages of all kinds of supplies, from toilet paper to catheters to syringes. Computerized equipment has gone unrepaired and is no longer in use. Nurses are handling four times the patients they should, and wait times for operations -- even cancer surgeries -- have grown longer. Access to drugs has also been affected, as some drug manufacturers, owed tens of millions of dollars, are no longer willing to supply Greek hospitals. At the same time pharmacists, afraid that the government might not reimburse them, are asking for cash payments, even from those with insurance. Brick by brick, the edifice of socialized medicine is ruthlessly and forcefully being taken apart. The lesson here is for our nation to rid ourselves of ObamaCare entirely before it becomes embedded into the fabric of society, because it too will be rooted out by the forces of economics. It is easier to throw out the seed than uproot the plant, so the sooner this is done, the better. Anything less is a form a gross medical malpractice. "There are two places only where socialism will work; In Heaven, where it is not needed, and in Hell, where they already have it." -Winston Churchill
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#1. To: CZ82 (#0)
Except that the countries with the strongest economies in the world right now spend more on social welfare services than Greece, Italy, and Ireland (and even the U.S.) For example, Sweden, which has the largest social welfare structure as a percentage of GDP, has a GDP higher now than before the crisis began. Meanwhile, Ireland, which has cut spending by 14% in the last 2 years, still pays around 8% interest on its bonds.
Tagline for sale - inquire within
Yet the American"Thinker" consistently ignores the documented success of the Israeli compulsory health care model. I wonder why? And it's been given credit for creating the oldest average national lifespan of 82 years.
"ROTFLMAO... Perfect! She longs... for someone to Teabag her. a man that squats on top of a women's face and lowers his genitals into her mouth during sex, known as "teabagging" She aches for it"... ~~~JWpegler. Head Tea Bagger and Tea Party supporter extraordinaire, explicitly expressing his fantasies in public about other posters.
My guess would be that 'compulsory' is simply un-American.
Sorry.... no man is an island. Lots of things are compulsory in this country
"ROTFLMAO... Perfect! She longs... for someone to Teabag her. a man that squats on top of a women's face and lowers his genitals into her mouth during sex, known as "teabagging" She aches for it"... ~~~JWpegler. Head Tea Bagger and Tea Party supporter extraordinaire, explicitly expressing his fantasies in public about other posters.
Sorry.... no man is an island. At least with a health care plan that includes everyone, people can choose whether or not to seek necessary health care without fear of bankruptcy.
Economics is a social phenomenon and in no way a “science”, no matter how desperately its high priests would like to have it believed otherwise. It is, instead, a branch of anthropology and the sooner that is recognized and accepted, the better off human-kind in general and the world of academic economics, in particular, shall be proximity1 We probably will see widespread civil disorder in the 1980s, as a direct result of our faltering economic system. Ron Paul
Why should someone be forced to pay for healthcare for someone else? There is no such right to healthcare. In fact it is tyranny to make normal people pay for some faggot who inserted the aids virus up his rectum.
You are not "forced", but incur a tax burden as the result of voluntary activity.
Economics is a social phenomenon and in no way a “science”, no matter how desperately its high priests would like to have it believed otherwise. It is, instead, a branch of anthropology and the sooner that is recognized and accepted, the better off human-kind in general and the world of academic economics, in particular, shall be proximity1 We probably will see widespread civil disorder in the 1980s, as a direct result of our faltering economic system. Ron Paul
Taxes aren't voluntary.
The activity that has taxes as a consequence is voluntary.
Economics is a social phenomenon and in no way a “science”, no matter how desperately its high priests would like to have it believed otherwise. It is, instead, a branch of anthropology and the sooner that is recognized and accepted, the better off human-kind in general and the world of academic economics, in particular, shall be proximity1 We probably will see widespread civil disorder in the 1980s, as a direct result of our faltering economic system. Ron Paul
What in your view should be taxed to pay for healthcare for all? Paying taxes isn't voluntary. Taxing something and pretending that it is voluntary is disingenuous.
Then you think requiring people to have auto insurance to drive is illegal taxation and that we don't have an obligation to all take responsibility for the dangers inherent to travel by automobile. Interesting. We have an obligation to make sure human health needs and the inevitability of sickness and death is addressed. It is never wrong to learn and live the lesson of the good Samaritan in your Bible, because humanity is always at it's best when we work together to help each other tackle the inevitable part of being mortal beings subject to disease and death.
Not quite. Let me clarify. Our taxes pay for the roads. The citizens have a right to use the roads without license or insurance. It is fascism to require auto insurance. That has nothing to do with responsibility for your actions on the road. If you get into an accident on the road you should be held financially and if circumstances warrant criminally responsible.
No we have no such obligation. But if out of the goodness of our hearts we want to then we should.
Yes. Voluntarily. Forcing people to do it takes on a different meaning.
But if you are a normal human taking a risk and gamble that you not having the means to keep from ruining the other party in an accident financially just by simply not having the means to compensate them, it doesn't matter what penalty you suffer for this error in judgment. The other party and their dependents are made to suffer along with the punished party unable to meet their obligations in an accident, and that is unacceptable. The system is set up to prevent this collateral damage caused by human myopia and willingness to gamble with the financial viability of others. And thus I support the requirement for auto insurance.
There is no free lunch in life. Anyone ignoring a sister or brother in need in that biblical example still suffers consequences for their lack of concern for their fellow human being. I would of thought you could see that nuance to the story in the Bible. I know I do.
That is life Mike. Not this artificial thing where you have to pay corporations at threat of being jailed to simply exercise your God given right to travel to provide for your family.
Bullshit. Statistically more people would be better off. Some people go their whole life without getting into an accident and pay tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars for nothing. We can never have a perfect world. I would suggest a type of insurance that only covers yourself if you are so worried about it. I have insurance but it should be voluntary.
Tell that to Obamas fat cow of a wife while she scarfs down food stolen from the taxpayers.
I profoundly disagree. What you are saying is that if say the Chinese invade us and we require people by force of law to help the war effort in a teamwork effort to survive this is wrong because we should only care to save our collective skins out of the goodness of our heart. Sorry, but on many levels we have a requirement for the welfare of us all. On many levels we either provide for the general welfare and greater good of we the people, or we all suffer or die miserably for our lack of social cohesion and commitment for the greater good of the United States as a nation.
Fuck the system.
That is a diversionary argument using a family member of an elected official to create an emotional smoke screen to avoid a reasoned explination of your side of the debate concerning the point at hand.
Yep. I wouldn't want anyone who didn't want to defend ourselves in case of attack on our side anyways. Besides it violates the 14th amendment (sometimes called the 13th)
I can' wait until the fat cow is thrown out of the white house. They act like they won the lottery or something. Their whole family sucks.
"Fuck the system"..... .... and then see the result of this lack of adult responsibility taking screw us all as a result. Like it or not, part of being mature and responsible is doing things that none of us personally like to do on a selfish level.
An emotional diatribe framed as a tantrum is only our desire to avoid arguing the point at hand. An opinion single family of dependents of an elected official is not a well framed argument from you explaining why my argument back to you is erronious in any way. You are being diversional and obviously do not want to argue the point in good faith. That would be like me saying Hitler was evil simply because Eva Braun was an opportunistic whore. It that is the best you can do, then you have lost the debate.
yawn. When is the fat ugly bitch going to get out of the white house? She eats way to much.
Mike. Nobody has a right to tell me what to do. How do do it. What to buy. What not to buy. I'll do what I want to and no one will stop me. If I harm someone else. I would be wrong and should be stopped. But I don't. And the remote possibility that someone might get in an accident on the road doesn't make anyone surrender any rights to the contrary.
OK, I can't make you work to argue a counterpoint. None the less, you still are not advancing a rebuttal to my posts. You don't wish to argue, just talk about your likes and dislikes in people who are not elected officials. A good day to you, I'll continue other dialogs I am engaged in elsewhere on the Internet then for now. I don't have time for this sort of smoke screen.
Obama < shit
That is what auto insurance law does exactly. thanks for agreeing with me. If you harm another because you have an accident and do not have the means for them to get their car fixed, or medical care to keep their life and the lives who depend on them from falling apart, you should be sanctioned severely for this lack of commitment to the personal responsibility of driving. Making you get car insurance is not simply, 'making you do what you don't want to do' as if that was a market choice like buying Pepsi instead of Coke, it's making sure that you are observing your responsibility not to ruin others in the commission of your mutual use of the roadway. The system does not work if what you gamble in your driving is another's life and livelihood as the stakes in the bet you make by not having insurance to drive.
You can hurt someone riding a bicycle. Should you have to get insurance just in case? You can hurt someone skateboarding. Should they be required to buy insurance too. You can do damage while walking too. Should you required to buy insurance if you are walking? Under your logic you should. Who know you could step on some dog shit or ink and track it into some businesses nice white carpet. Legislating every aspect of our existence is getting ridiculous. We need to free our souls and let us be men and women again.
Liability auto insurance covers death and injury caused in the commision of driving. You really want a bicyclist's family suing you into the poorhouse because you say ran over him or her will finishing a text message or were distracted momentarily by say a lit cigarette falling into your lap? I don't see any point to your rebuttal. In effect you are actually making a good case for liability coverage.
So walkers should be required to have insurance. Got ya fool.
Can you walk at 55 MPH? Auto insurance recognizes the consistent and considerably higher jeopardy involved in driving. Not to mention that if someone walks on your property and falls into a hole or slips and falls, sues you and wins a judgment against you, you are going to pay through your nose forever for being found liable for a risk you didn't address before they suffered from it's existence. You still don't prove your point that it is OK to use another's life and financial well being as the stakes in your gamble taken when you drive without insurance. And if your ox was gored by an uninsured person colliding with you causing you to not be able to provide for your family due to injury of loss of physical asset like a car, you would be i here whining mightily at the injustice of it all; especially if that person were liberal thus being an even better scapegoat in your eyes for this calamity that befell you at their irresponsible hands.
So we only have insurance for the highway and where speeds are 55 mph and greater. That doesn't make any sense. I'm for freedom and you are not.
I absolutely entered no qualifier for a specific speed to be involved in having insurance. This diversionary and makes no point supporting your argument that it is OK to use the wellbeing and assets of another as the stakes in the gamble involved in driving without insurance. "I'm for freedom and you are not." I argue in support of adult acceptance of personal responsibility, and you express disdain for this concept.
"Trying" to make car insurance mandatory is just another way to keep the average "government educated idiot" from being responsible for their own incompetent actions (just like Obamacare). By the way the law doesn't work anyway and there are numerous people that still don't carry insurance.... That's why most current insurance policies offer protection from uninsured motorists for just a few dollars per month, I think mine is about $5..... So if you are currently a responsible person just shut up and pay the extra couple dollars and be covered..... Some states have what they call "no fault" insurance, which means your company is responsible for the damage to your vehicle even if it was the other guys fault.... If the other guy doesn't have insurance at least you are covered and it's up to your insurance company to go after the other guy to get their money back..... One little tweak than can be done to the system is make some type of punishment mandatory for those who chose not to carry insurance and have no way of paying for the damages they cause..... With the proceeds of that punishment going to the victims insurance company...... even if it takes "YEARS" to pay the money back, that alone would be a big deterent for those not "Voluntarily" carrying insurance... Also.... if states would make the requirements to get a drivers license considerable harder, then a lot of the irresponsible/incompetent drivers wouldn't be on the roads to begin with......
Quiz of the Day: Who made the statement "The world would be a better place if only Men were to vote?????? HINT: It was a woman!!!
Quiz of the Day: Who made the statement "The world would be a better place if only Men were to vote?????? HINT: It was a woman!!!
And only somewhat acceptable results..... Quiz of the Day: Who made the statement "The world would be a better place if only Men were to vote?????? HINT: It was a woman!!!
Sounds like my kids as adolescents.
Economics is a social phenomenon and in no way a “science”, no matter how desperately its high priests would like to have it believed otherwise. It is, instead, a branch of anthropology and the sooner that is recognized and accepted, the better off human-kind in general and the world of academic economics, in particular, shall be proximity1 We probably will see widespread civil disorder in the 1980s, as a direct result of our faltering economic system. Ron Paul
Nice graph, what does it mean?
Economics is a social phenomenon and in no way a “science”, no matter how desperately its high priests would like to have it believed otherwise. It is, instead, a branch of anthropology and the sooner that is recognized and accepted, the better off human-kind in general and the world of academic economics, in particular, shall be proximity1 We probably will see widespread civil disorder in the 1980s, as a direct result of our faltering economic system. Ron Paul
It means we are winning. Look we are on the top. YAY!
It means spending per capita for whatever went way up under Bush and the Republicans. Probably military spending due to the Bush Wars.
"ROTFLMAO... Perfect! She longs... for someone to Teabag her. a man that squats on top of a women's face and lowers his genitals into her mouth during sex, known as "teabagging" She aches for it"... ~~~JWpegler. Head Tea Bagger and Tea Party supporter extraordinaire, explicitly expressing his fantasies in public about other posters.
It shows how much per capita certain countries around the world are spending on healthcare for their citizens......
Quiz of the Day: Who made the statement "The world would be a better place if only Men were to vote?????? HINT: It was a woman!!!
How is the graph a response to go65's statement: Except that the countries with the strongest economies in the world right now spend more on social welfare services than Greece, Italy, and Ireland (and even the U.S.) All your graph shows is the US spends more money per capita on health care than other countries (Stone is right, we spend more [and get less] making us #1 in cost). That, however, has nothing to do with government spending on social welfare.
Economics is a social phenomenon and in no way a “science”, no matter how desperately its high priests would like to have it believed otherwise. It is, instead, a branch of anthropology and the sooner that is recognized and accepted, the better off human-kind in general and the world of academic economics, in particular, shall be proximity1 We probably will see widespread civil disorder in the 1980s, as a direct result of our faltering economic system. Ron Paul
Well in a way it shows you get what you pay for.... Mandatory mediocre Socialist healthcare for "everyone" (except the "Elitists") that makes you wait weeks, months, years or maybe never for getting some procedures done.... (and you die in the meantime).... Versus free market healthcare that you can get just about thing done done, anytime and anywhere..... Healthcare that can save your life instead of waiting for some bureaucrat to decide if your ass is worth saving or not... As far as I'm concerned it's up to me, not some douchebag!!!! The only reason ours costs so much is meddling by the government in the healthcare system.... (Trying to force us into Socialist Healthcare)!!!! Did you know that we've had a Socialist type Healthcare system in this country for quite sometime????? Ask any current or prior military member, they can fill you in.....
Quiz of the Day: Who made the statement "The world would be a better place if only Men were to vote?????? HINT: It was a woman!!!
Statistics just don't bear that out Economics is a social phenomenon and in no way a “science”, no matter how desperately its high priests would like to have it believed otherwise. It is, instead, a branch of anthropology and the sooner that is recognized and accepted, the better off human-kind in general and the world of academic economics, in particular, shall be proximity1 We probably will see widespread civil disorder in the 1980s, as a direct result of our faltering economic system. Ron Paul
theincidentaleconomist.co...h-the-wait-times-already/ Why is then that I can get right in and be seen downtown in the free market system and the chart shows 6 days????
Quiz of the Day: Who made the statement "The world would be a better place if only Men were to vote?????? HINT: It was a woman!!!
The abswer is in the title. Economics is a social phenomenon and in no way a “science”, no matter how desperately its high priests would like to have it believed otherwise. It is, instead, a branch of anthropology and the sooner that is recognized and accepted, the better off human-kind in general and the world of academic economics, in particular, shall be proximity1 We probably will see widespread civil disorder in the 1980s, as a direct result of our faltering economic system. Ron Paul
The abswer is in the title. That still doesn't explain why they have to wait and I can be seen right away!!!! Do they live in areas where doctors are a rare commodity because they can't make any money because of government intervention or because of the court system and all the frivolous lawsuits they allow???? I think you also shot GO65 in the foot with that graph too!!! He/she was just so enamoured with Swedens Healthcare system.....
Quiz of the Day: Who made the statement "The world would be a better place if only Men were to vote?????? HINT: It was a woman!!!
First, the ability to sue is a free market remedy for a wrong done. Why would you wish the state to regulate and put limits on the amount of awards. BTW, California did tort reform in the 70s, and we're socialist - right? Second, your assumptions are just plain wrong. Economics is a social phenomenon and in no way a “science”, no matter how desperately its high priests would like to have it believed otherwise. It is, instead, a branch of anthropology and the sooner that is recognized and accepted, the better off human-kind in general and the world of academic economics, in particular, shall be proximity1 We probably will see widespread civil disorder in the 1980s, as a direct result of our faltering economic system. Ron Paul
As the chart shows, even in the worst countries, a six-day wait time is the exception rather than the rule. It could be as simple as the way an individual practice is managed. At Kaiser, a private HMO, one has to get past a series of gate keepers before one can see a doctor - that tends to delay things.
Economics is a social phenomenon and in no way a “science”, no matter how desperately its high priests would like to have it believed otherwise. It is, instead, a branch of anthropology and the sooner that is recognized and accepted, the better off human-kind in general and the world of academic economics, in particular, shall be proximity1 We probably will see widespread civil disorder in the 1980s, as a direct result of our faltering economic system. Ron Paul
Second, Quite a few of them are frivolous to start with and shouldn't even go to court at all.... This forces physicians to have to pay more money for higher levels of insurance and shell out more in attorney fees than they normally would... Then again, better training in medical schools would eliminate a lot of mistakes that happen too..... But that probably won't happen.....
Quiz of the Day: Who made the statement "The world would be a better place if only Men were to vote?????? HINT: It was a woman!!!
That Socialized Healthcare sux???? Nope they are right on the money.... Just think of it this way, you're going to put millions more people in the Healthcare system at a time when the government is trying to cut funds from that Healthcare system!!!!!! What do you think that is going to do to your level of Healthcare???? Make it get better???? ROTFLMAO!!!!! What level of care you get currently will go down after ObozoCare is fully implemented, mark my words!!! And don't bother telling me that it will go up because I know that you have good Healthcare Insurance at the present time (that is if you're telling the truth about living in a very nice neighborhood) (By the way a little less gun control would make your neighborhood a safer place)... Wait till you have to go through it then you will see things differently.... Especially when you need a procedure done really bad and they say 6-12 months, if at all!!!! (a procedure that you can currently get done here within a week or 2)..... It will depend on your age and importance to the bureaucrats, if you're old and aren't paying taxes you will be screwed..... It's happening all around the world right now.... pay attention and learn...... Better yet go visit some of those socialized healthcare countries and see it for yourself first hand, like I have.. You will find out you're being lied to by those who say it's the schitt!!!! Remember what I said about we currently have a socialist type healthcare system already in use for the military of this country???? As you know (if you have been paying attention) that I am retired military.... Well I developed an ear infection last fall (first one in over 40 years) and I called the base hospital to get into sick call. I was told that they don't do that anymore (because of funding cuts) and that I could have an appointment "IN 9 DAYS" or could go downtown and pay for it myself.... (Did you know that you can go deaf from ear infections?????) Needless to say I went downtown and got it taken care of that day because I value my hearing.... Do you know how I know that you can go deaf from ear infections????? My youngest daughter is almost totally deaf in one ear from ear infections that the "Socialist" doctors couldn't figure out what was causing them (4 in 4 months).... I ended up taking her downtown to the free market and found out that allergies were causing them, and it only took 1 appointment!!!! They did allergy tests on her, found out what was causing the problems and tailored her medication to her specific allergies.... Within a week she was all cleared up and feeling much better, but the damage was already done she was almost totally deaf in one ear...... The moral of the story..... is that when Healthcare becomes free you won't get any... or at least won't get anything that's worth a schitt!!!
Quiz of the Day: Who made the statement "The world would be a better place if only Men were to vote?????? HINT: It was a woman!!!
I have no health insurance - pre-existing conditions you know. I pay for my health care out of pocket. Fortunately I'm able to do it for now, but a couple of hospitalizations, and you'll be supporting me with your tax dollars. Wouldn't you rather I had some kind of insurance?
Economics is a social phenomenon and in no way a “science”, no matter how desperately its high priests would like to have it believed otherwise. It is, instead, a branch of anthropology and the sooner that is recognized and accepted, the better off human-kind in general and the world of academic economics, in particular, shall be proximity1 We probably will see widespread civil disorder in the 1980s, as a direct result of our faltering economic system. Ron Paul
Sell your house. I don't want to support you.
There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box and the ammo box. Please use in that order.
What difference would it really make if you did or didn't have Obamacare, I would still have to support you with my tax dollars!!!! Why do you think so many people want the aliens to be sent home and for the government to get out of the business of stifling job creation in this country!!!! The government has created so many messes in this country all for a few votes and the "FAKE" empathy they feel for us..... As to what you do about your health problems all depends on how much you love your family... and vice versa.... I have seen medical problems leave entire families destitute and heart broken, and I have seen the sick one just leave so the family wouldn't have to face the money problems and mental anguish.... I'm not saying either solution is the right way to go, I'm just saying I have seen it go both ways..... Life isn't fair, never was and never will be.... Some of us only last a few hours or days and others live to be 100.... But since we are here and having to deal with it, all we can do is try to make the best of it!!!!!!!
Quiz of the Day: Who made the statement "The world would be a better place if only Men were to vote?????? HINT: It was a woman!!!
At one time anesthesiologists were paying high malpractice insurance rate due to errors. Rather than whine and seek to limit the patients ability to sue, the American Society of Anesthesiologists began collecting data to discover where the errors were being made, and then figured out better ways to do their jobs to prevent injury. The result? The field of medicine that has taken the lead in systems approaches to safety is anaesthesiology.[73] Steps such as standardization of IV medications to 1 ml doses, national and international color coding standards, and development of improved airway support devices has made anesthesia care a model of systems improvement in care. (Wikipedia) Along with saving lives, anesthesiologists reduced the number of law suits against them, and reduced the cost of their malpractice insurance. Unfortunately in the "everyman is an island" world where being "free" and "independent" means we don't want no data collection.
Economics is a social phenomenon and in no way a “science”, no matter how desperately its high priests would like to have it believed otherwise. It is, instead, a branch of anthropology and the sooner that is recognized and accepted, the better off human-kind in general and the world of academic economics, in particular, shall be proximity1 We probably will see widespread civil disorder in the 1980s, as a direct result of our faltering economic system. Ron Paul
In this case, the government is the handmaiden of cheap labor employers - the guys you would give free rein to pursue their self interests in any way they see fit. As to what you do about your health problems all depends on how much you love your family... and vice versa.... I have seen medical problems leave entire families destitute and heart broken, and I have seen the sick one just leave so the family wouldn't have to face the money problems and mental anguish.... I'm not saying either solution is the right way to go, I'm just saying I have seen it go both ways..... Yea, a friend's husband's heart valve began to fail. He had no insurance due to his obvious pre-existing condition and killed himself because "he couldn't bear to put his family through the financial hardship". That was pretty devastating. I do see why you fear some bureaucrat deciding whether or not your life is worth saving - it's a reflection of the value you, yourself, puts on life.
Economics is a social phenomenon and in no way a “science”, no matter how desperately its high priests would like to have it believed otherwise. It is, instead, a branch of anthropology and the sooner that is recognized and accepted, the better off human-kind in general and the world of academic economics, in particular, shall be proximity1 We probably will see widespread civil disorder in the 1980s, as a direct result of our faltering economic system. Ron Paul
If you have insurance, either your needs are being paid for by others, or you're paying to care for the needs of others with your dollars. That's what insurance is all about.
Economics is a social phenomenon and in no way a “science”, no matter how desperately its high priests would like to have it believed otherwise. It is, instead, a branch of anthropology and the sooner that is recognized and accepted, the better off human-kind in general and the world of academic economics, in particular, shall be proximity1 We probably will see widespread civil disorder in the 1980s, as a direct result of our faltering economic system. Ron Paul
Fear no, it's just that he/she shouldn't be in the picture to start with.... It should be between the patient, the doctor and the family as to what happens.... not some idiot that has decided you aren't worth saving because you aren't paying taxes or aren't voting for the people who holds his leash..... So do you want to make your own decisions about your life or are you perfectly happy with someone who doesn't know you or care about you (or your life) making life decisions for you???? Because the latter is what you'll be getting with ObozoCare..... Lets see how dear you hold life..... Do you know that more than likely ObozoCare will kill millions maybe billions of people that probably "wouldn't" have died if ObozoCare were never passed in the first place????? Does that thought appeal to you or scare you??? Have you ever really sat down and thought what the consequences might be of the passage of this bill???? Do you realize that eventually it will effectively neuter this country because of it's cost???? Would you like some examples of what will happen just so a few people can have "THE RIGHT" to get free Healthcare???? 1). Loss of jobs in this country, this bill is a job killer.... Do you think highly trained doctors and nurses want to work for nothing????? They will retire or move to another country before thay work here for peanuts!!! Which also means their employees will be unemployed..... which also means less revenue the government can collect to fund their abortion called ObozoCare!!! Which also means.... 2). The quality of "Everybodys" healthcare will go "DOWN" because you will have med techs doing diagnosis instead of trained healthcare personnel...... which means that some people will die that wouldn't have died under the current system!!!!! 3). There will be people deciding to not have children because they would be bringing them into a world that wants to oppress and exploit them (why do you think most socialist/communist/fascist countries birth rates are almost zero)??? 4). Because of the costs associated with this BS bill a lot of things that we currently do for other countries around the world will have to be eliminated or put on hold..... A). No more giving free food to starving people in poor countries.... B). No more Healthcare assistance to people in poor countries...... C). No more of our military protecting people in foreign countries from their own oppressive governments or from neighboring oppressive governments that want to exploit/enslave/conquer them...... I could probably think of some more negatives if I put my mind to it but why bother, I think what I listed is enough to get the point across.... assuming that you care..... Are you are willing to let millions maybe billions of people die just so a few people that weren't going to die in the first place has free Healthcare?????? Is that the price you're willing to have "others pay" so "YOU" and a "few others" have healthcare coverage???? Especially when 90% or more of those that currently don't have insurance aren't going to die anyway if the "DON'T" get Healthcare insurance!!!!!! The choice is yours, are you selfish or do you actually have empathy?????
Quiz of the Day: Who made the statement "The world would be a better place if only Men were to vote?????? HINT: It was a woman!!!
Private health insurance providers have already decided I ain't worth insuring. Do you know that more than likely ObozoCare will kill millions maybe billions of people that probably "wouldn't" have died if ObozoCare were never passed in the first place????? Does that thought appeal to you or scare you??? What scares me is that you believe that.
Economics is a social phenomenon and in no way a “science”, no matter how desperately its high priests would like to have it believed otherwise. It is, instead, a branch of anthropology and the sooner that is recognized and accepted, the better off human-kind in general and the world of academic economics, in particular, shall be proximity1 We probably will see widespread civil disorder in the 1980s, as a direct result of our faltering economic system. Ron Paul
Universal health insurance does not equal free health care. 1). Loss of jobs in this country, this bill is a job killer.... Do you think highly trained doctors and nurses want to work for nothing????? They will retire or move to another country before thay work here for peanuts!!! Which also means their employees will be unemployed..... which also means less revenue the government can collect to fund their abortion called ObozoCare!!! As of 2009 the US had 2.43 doctors per 1,000 people; the average for OECD countries is 3.1 doctors per 1,000 people; Austria, Belgium, Iceland, Ireland, the Netherlands and Norway have close to 4 doctors per 1,000 - all OECD countries spend less on health care than the US. (source, Forbes) 3). There will be people deciding to not have children because they would be bringing them into a world that wants to oppress and exploit them (why do you think most socialist/communist/fascist countries birth rates are almost zero)??? Educated women with access to birth control tend to limit the size of their families because they have a choice.
Economics is a social phenomenon and in no way a “science”, no matter how desperately its high priests would like to have it believed otherwise. It is, instead, a branch of anthropology and the sooner that is recognized and accepted, the better off human-kind in general and the world of academic economics, in particular, shall be proximity1 We probably will see widespread civil disorder in the 1980s, as a direct result of our faltering economic system. Ron Paul
A). No more giving free food to starving people in poor countries.... B). No more Healthcare assistance to people in poor countries...... C). No more of our military protecting people in foreign countries from their own oppressive governments or from neighboring oppressive governments that want to exploit/enslave/conquer them...... Quote from Forbes article: I don't think any health expert doubts that it is possible for the U.S. to spend far less on health than it does today while improving the general quality of health. Obviously this is the case because other countries do it. Obviously the author hasn't talked to you. www.forbes.com/2009/07/02...ns-columnists-reform.html (just in case you care)
Economics is a social phenomenon and in no way a “science”, no matter how desperately its high priests would like to have it believed otherwise. It is, instead, a branch of anthropology and the sooner that is recognized and accepted, the better off human-kind in general and the world of academic economics, in particular, shall be proximity1 We probably will see widespread civil disorder in the 1980s, as a direct result of our faltering economic system. Ron Paul
I just forsee that happening in the future because I don't believe in politicians or their BS rhetoric, if you want to believe them then have at it... But that's one of the reasons why the people on this planet have had to endure those like Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Genghis Khan and Bill Clinton..... They were weak minded and believed their BS!!!!!! (Those who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it in the future)...... I bet you also believe that the current ones we have are going to pay off our deficit!!!!!! So what is the real reason why you don't believe the scenario I outlined for you could possibly happen?????? Is it because you don't want to think bad about yourself, or is it because you are deluding yourself into believing the politicians want what is best for you????? Either way I'm going to laugh!!!!!!
Quiz of the Day: Who made the statement "The world would be a better place if only Men were to vote?????? HINT: It was a woman!!!
Get our government out of the HealthCare business and I have no doubt it could happen!!!!
Quiz of the Day: Who made the statement "The world would be a better place if only Men were to vote?????? HINT: It was a woman!!!
I always thought it was because of the "DO it if it feels good" syndrome and the "I don't want to be responsible for my actions" syndrome......
Quiz of the Day: Who made the statement "The world would be a better place if only Men were to vote?????? HINT: It was a woman!!!
Ummm - because real world experience indicates your scenario is imaginative but highly unlikely. ...or is it because you are deluding yourself into believing the politicians want what is best for you????? In general, I think politicians want what's best for when when they perceive it is in their best interest to do so. Isn't that what youse guys call enlightened self interest?
Economics is a social phenomenon and in no way a “science”, no matter how desperately its high priests would like to have it believed otherwise. It is, instead, a branch of anthropology and the sooner that is recognized and accepted, the better off human-kind in general and the world of academic economics, in particular, shall be proximity1 We probably will see widespread civil disorder in the 1980s, as a direct result of our faltering economic system. Ron Paul
In general, I think politicians want what's best for when when they perceive it is in their best interest to do so. Isn't that what youse guys call enlightened self interest? Then why is the current governments approval rating right at 10%????? Is it because they are "PURPOSELY" driving the country off a cliff with their financial insanity???? Is it because they "PURPOSELY" keep passing legislation that's taking more and more of the average citizens rights away????? (Like ObozoCare and the one Obozo signed the other day that gives the government the right to detain "ANYONE" indefinately without charging them or giving them any calls or lawyers. Originally that legislature exempted US citizens but Obozo wouldn't sign it in that form).... Wonder if he realizes it applies to him too!!! Is it because they "PURPOSELY" keep making more and more regulations that are killing jobs here and keeping the unemployment rate high Is it because they are "PURPOSELY" not closing our borders thereby making us more vulnerable to terrorist attacks????? (All for a few votes)!!!! Sounds to me like nobody other than you and a few others trust them to do what is right...... At a time when they are doing all the wrong things "PURPOSELY"!!! Why is that???
Quiz of the Day: Who made the statement "The world would be a better place if only Men were to vote?????? HINT: It was a woman!!!
Why is that? Don't ask me, you made it up.
Economics is a social phenomenon and in no way a “science”, no matter how desperately its high priests would like to have it believed otherwise. It is, instead, a branch of anthropology and the sooner that is recognized and accepted, the better off human-kind in general and the world of academic economics, in particular, shall be proximity1 We probably will see widespread civil disorder in the 1980s, as a direct result of our faltering economic system. Ron Paul
Obama could have vetoed the bill, or just not signed and it would be law anyway because it passed with more than 2/3 vote in the House (43 Republicans and 93 Democrats voted against)and 100% in the Senate. But never mind - you just go on blaming "Obozo" anyway.
Economics is a social phenomenon and in no way a “science”, no matter how desperately its high priests would like to have it believed otherwise. It is, instead, a branch of anthropology and the sooner that is recognized and accepted, the better off human-kind in general and the world of academic economics, in particular, shall be proximity1 We probably will see widespread civil disorder in the 1980s, as a direct result of our faltering economic system. Ron Paul
loonybitch: Obama could have vetoed the bill, or just not signed and it would be law anyway because it passed with more than 2/3 vote in the House (43 Republicans and 93 Democrats voted against)and 100% in the Senate. But never mind - you just go on blaming "Obozo" anyway. Which changes nothing. The "law" they just passed is blatantly unconstitutional. If it's not completely shot down by the SCOTUS, it still won't fly; it'll be revoked by the people. Every single person who voted for this, everyone who signed on to this declaration of war against the American population, is a TRAITOR. Those fools in DC think this is going to stop Americans from giving them the Mussolini treatment when the SHTF, are deluding themselves. Thinking they can gear up the local LEOs, PDs and sheriff departments to bolster the (only) 1 million troops in uniform, might boost their numbers by 10%... But it won't matter. There's something like 250 million guns in the USA, in the hands of the population. It won't even be close. And when it's all said and done, loonybitch, your government nipple will be gone. :)
“Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say 'what should be the reward of such sacrifices?' Bid us and our posterity bow the knee, supplicate the friendship and plough, and sow, and reap, to glut the avarice of the men who have let loose on us the dogs of war to riot in our blood and hunt us from the face of the earth? If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!” -- Samuel Adams --
The "law" they just passed is blatantly unconstitutional. If it's not completely shot down by the SCOTUS, it still won't fly; it'll be revoked by the people. Every single person who voted for this, everyone who signed on to this declaration of war against the American population, is a TRAITOR. You anarcho-libertarians doom and gloomers show your true colors when you express your hatred for our constitutional form of representative government. The people, as you say, already passed the legislation. And can do away with it if they see fit by the same process.
"ROTFLMAO... Perfect! She longs... for someone to Teabag her. a man that squats on top of a women's face and lowers his genitals into her mouth during sex, known as "teabagging" She aches for it"... ~~~JWpegler. Head Tea Bagger and Tea Party supporter extraordinaire, explicitly expressing his fantasies in public about other posters.
Whatever you say wise one
Economics is a social phenomenon and in no way a “science”, no matter how desperately its high priests would like to have it believed otherwise. It is, instead, a branch of anthropology and the sooner that is recognized and accepted, the better off human-kind in general and the world of academic economics, in particular, shall be proximity1 We probably will see widespread civil disorder in the 1980s, as a direct result of our faltering economic system. Ron Paul
That you FAIL to recognize that every single "representative" who voted for this VIOLATED THEIR OATH OF OFFICE, indicates that you're a FUCKING IDIOT. Your fealty to an overtly corrupt government indicates that you're too damned stupid, to hopelessly inured, to think for yourself. Were the government really still a "constitutional form of representative government," you might have a point. But we don't. We haven't had that for decades, and there are plenty of examples, to demonstrate that fact. You're an empty-headed, stupid bitch. Like the dullest of sheep, you happily stand around, waiting for them to fleece you. You're beneath contempt, you miserable boot-licker. And I really mean that.
“Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say 'what should be the reward of such sacrifices?' Bid us and our posterity bow the knee, supplicate the friendship and plough, and sow, and reap, to glut the avarice of the men who have let loose on us the dogs of war to riot in our blood and hunt us from the face of the earth? If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!” -- Samuel Adams --
That last bit had me laughing out loud.
Economics is a social phenomenon and in no way a “science”, no matter how desperately its high priests would like to have it believed otherwise. It is, instead, a branch of anthropology and the sooner that is recognized and accepted, the better off human-kind in general and the world of academic economics, in particular, shall be proximity1 We probably will see widespread civil disorder in the 1980s, as a direct result of our faltering economic system. Ron Paul
If you say so, but the polls say different!!! Quiz of the Day: Who made the statement "The world would be a better place if only Men were to vote?????? HINT: It was a woman!!!
If you say so, but the polls say different!!! I still say you made it up. hint: polls have nothing to do with my answer.
Economics is a social phenomenon and in no way a “science”, no matter how desperately its high priests would like to have it believed otherwise. It is, instead, a branch of anthropology and the sooner that is recognized and accepted, the better off human-kind in general and the world of academic economics, in particular, shall be proximity1 We probably will see widespread civil disorder in the 1980s, as a direct result of our faltering economic system. Ron Paul
Yet sometimes, epic failure can constructively serve as an example of what not to do. If the individual states of our nation are a laboratory of democracy, then the states of Europe are the laboratory of socialism. What we are witness to in Greece, and eventually in Spain, Italy, and possibly France, is the painful death of the welfare state.
#2. To: CZ82 (#0)
(Edited)
#3. To: mininggold (#2)
Yet the American"Thinker" consistently ignores the documented success of the Israeli compulsory health care model. I wonder why?
#4. To: We The People (#3)
My guess would be that 'compulsory' is simply un-American.
#5. To: mininggold (#4)
My guess would be that 'compulsory' is simply un-American.
#6. To: lucysmom (#5)
At least with a health care plan that includes everyone, people can choose whether or not to seek necessary health care without fear of bankruptcy.
#7. To: A K A Stone (#6)
Why should someone be forced to pay for healthcare for someone else?
#8. To: lucysmom (#7)
You are not "forced", but incur a tax burden as the result of voluntary activity.
#9. To: A K A Stone (#8)
Taxes aren't voluntary.
#10. To: lucysmom (#9)
The activity that has taxes as a consequence is voluntary.
#11. To: A K A Stone (#10)
#12. To: Ferret Mike (#11)
Then you think requiring people to have auto insurance to drive is illegal taxation and that we don't have an obligation to all take responsibility for the dangers inherent to travel by automobile. Interesting.
#13. To: Ferret Mike (#11)
We have an obligation to make sure human health needs and the inevitability of sickness and death is addressed.
#14. To: Ferret Mike (#11)
It is never wrong to learn and live the lesson of the good Samaritan in your Bible, because humanity is always at it's best when we work together to help each other tackle the inevitable part of being mortal beings subject to disease and death.
#15. To: A K A Stone (#12)
#16. To: A K A Stone (#14)
"Yes. Voluntarily. Forcing people to do it takes on a different meaning."
#17. To: Ferret Mike (#15)
But if you are a normal human taking a risk and gamble that you not having the means to keep from ruining the other party in an accident financially just by simply not having the means to compensate them, it doesn't matter what penalty you suffer for this error in judgment.
#18. To: Ferret Mike (#15)
The other party and their dependents are made to suffer along with the punished party unable to meet their obligations in an accident, and that is unacceptable.
#19. To: Ferret Mike (#16)
There is no free lunch in life.
#20. To: A K A Stone (#13)
"No we have no such obligation. But if out of the goodness of our hearts we want to then we should."
#21. To: Ferret Mike (#15)
The system is set up to prevent this collateral damage caused by human myopia and willingness to gamble with the financial viability of others.
#22. To: A K A Stone (#19)
(Edited)
"Tell that to Obamas fat cow of a wife while she scarfs down food stolen from the taxpayers."
#23. To: Ferret Mike (#20)
I profoundly disagree. What you are saying is that if say the Chinese invade us and we require people by force of law to help the war effort in a teamwork effort to survive this is wrong because we should only care to save our collective skins out of the goodness of our heart.
#24. To: Ferret Mike (#22)
I profoundly disagree. What you are saying is that if say the Chinese invade us and we require people by force of law to help the war effort in a teamwork effort to survive this is wrong because we should only care to save our collective skins out of the goodness of our heart.
#25. To: A K A Stone (#21)
(Edited)
#26. To: A K A Stone (#24)
(Edited)
"I can' wait until the fat cow is thrown out of the white house. They act like they won the lottery or something. Their whole family sucks."
#27. To: Ferret Mike (#26)
#28. To: Ferret Mike (#26)
#29. To: A K A Stone (#28)
#30. To: Ferret Mike (#29)
(Edited)
#31. To: A K A Stone (#28)
(Edited)
"If I harm someone else. I would be wrong and should be stopped."
#32. To: Ferret Mike (#31)
#33. To: A K A Stone (#32)
#34. To: Ferret Mike (#33)
I don't see any point to your rebuttal. In effect you are actually making a good case for liability coverage.
#35. To: A K A Stone (#32)
(Edited)
"You can do damage while walking too. Should you required to buy insurance if you are walking?"
#36. To: Ferret Mike (#35)
Can you walk at 55 MPH? Auto insurance recognizes the consistent and considerably higher jeopardy involved in driving.
#37. To: A K A Stone (#36)
#38. To: Ferret Mike, AKA Stone (#15)
But if you are a normal human taking a risk and gamble that you not having the means to keep from ruining the other party in an accident financially just by simply not having the means to compensate them, it doesn't matter what penalty you suffer for this error in judgment.
#39. To: go65 (#1)
Except that the countries with the strongest economies in the world right now spend more on social welfare services than Greece, Italy, and Ireland (and even the U.S.)
#40. To: go65 (#1)
For example, Sweden, which has the largest social welfare structure as a percentage of GDP, has a GDP higher now than before the crisis began.
#41. To: A K A Stone (#14)
Voluntarily. Forcing people to do it takes on a different meaning.
#42. To: CZ82 (#39)
#43. To: lucysmom (#42)
Nice graph, what does it mean?
#44. To: A K A Stone (#43)
It means we are winning. Look we are on the top. YAY!
#45. To: lucysmom (#42)
Nice graph, what does it mean?
#46. To: CZ82 (#45)
It shows how much per capita certain countries around the world are spending on healthcare for their citizens......
#47. To: lucysmom (#46)
All your graph shows is the US spends more money per capita on health care than other countries (Stone is right, we spend more [and get less] making us #1 in cost). That, however, has nothing to do with government spending on social welfare.
#48. To: CZ82 (#47)
Well in a way it shows you get what you pay for.... Mandatory mediocre Socialist healthcare for "everyone" (except the "Elitists") that makes you wait weeks, months, years or maybe never for getting some procedures done.... (and you die in the meantime).... Versus free market healthcare that you can get just about thing done done, anytime and anywhere..... Healthcare that can save your life instead of waiting for some bureaucrat to decide if your ass is worth saving or not... As far as I'm concerned it's up to me, not some douchebag!!!!
#49. To: lucysmom (#48)
Statistics just don't bear that out
#50. To: CZ82 (#49)
Why is then that I can get right in and be seen downtown in the free market system and the chart shows 6 days????
#51. To: lucysmom (#50)
Why is then that I can get right in and be seen downtown in the free market system and the chart shows 6 days????
#52. To: CZ82 (#51)
That still doesn't explain why they have to wait and I can be seen right away!!!! Do they live in areas where doctors are a rare commodity because they can't make any money because of government intervention or because of the court system and all the frivolous lawsuits they allow????
#53. To: CZ82 (#51)
(Edited)
That still doesn't explain why they have to wait and I can be seen right away!!!!
#54. To: lucysmom (#52)
First, the ability to sue is a free market remedy for a wrong done. Why would you wish the state to regulate and put limits on the amount of awards.
#55. To: lucysmom (#52)
Second, your assumptions are just plain wrong.
#56. To: CZ82 (#55)
I know that you have good Healthcare Insurance at the present time (that is if you're telling the truth about living in a very nice neighborhood)
#57. To: lucysmom (#56)
#58. To: lucysmom (#56)
Fortunately I'm able to do it for now, but a couple of hospitalizations, and you'll be supporting me with your tax dollars. Wouldn't you rather I had some kind of insurance?
#59. To: CZ82 (#54)
Then again, better training in medical schools would eliminate a lot of mistakes that happen too..... But that probably won't happen.....
#60. To: CZ82 (#58)
Why do you think so many people want the aliens to be sent home and for the government to get out of the business of stifling job creation in this country!!!! The government has created so many messes in this country all for a few votes and the "FAKE" empathy they feel for us.....
#61. To: CZ82 (#58)
What difference would it really make if you did or didn't have Obamacare, I would still have to support you with my tax dollars!!!!
#62. To: lucysmom (#60)
(Edited)
I do see why you fear some bureaucrat deciding whether or not your life is worth saving - it's a reflection of the value you, yourself, puts on life.
#63. To: CZ82 (#62)
So do you want to make your own decisions about your life or are you perfectly happy with someone who doesn't know you or care about you (or your life) making life decisions for you???? Because the latter is what you'll be getting with ObozoCare.....
#64. To: CZ82 (#62)
Would you like some examples of what will happen just so a few people can have "THE RIGHT" to get free Healthcare????
#65. To: CZ82 (#62)
4). Because of the costs associated with this BS bill a lot of things that we currently do for other countries around the world will have to be eliminated or put on hold.....
#66. To: lucysmom (#63)
What scares me is that you believe that.
#67. To: lucysmom (#65)
I don't think any health expert doubts that it is possible for the U.S. to spend far less on health than it does today while improving the general quality of health. Obviously this is the case because other countries do it.
#68. To: lucysmom (#64)
Educated women with access to birth control tend to limit the size of their families because they have a choice
#69. To: CZ82 (#66)
So what is the real reason why you don't believe the scenario I outlined for you could possibly happen??????
#70. To: lucysmom (#69)
...or is it because you are deluding yourself into believing the politicians want what is best for you?????
#71. To: CZ82 (#70)
Sounds to me like nobody other than you and a few others trust them to do what is right...... At a time when they are doing all the wrong things "PURPOSELY"!!! Why is that???
#72. To: CZ82 (#70)
...and the one Obozo signed the other day that gives the government the right to detain "ANYONE" indefinately without charging them or giving them any calls or lawyers. Originally that legislature exempted US citizens but Obozo wouldn't sign it in that form).... Wonder if he realizes it applies to him too!!!
#73. To: lucysmom, CZ82 (#72)
CZ82: ...and the one Obozo signed the other day that gives the government the right to detain "ANYONE" indefinately without charging them or giving them any calls or lawyers. Originally that legislature exempted US citizens but Obozo wouldn't sign it in that form).... Wonder if he realizes it applies to him too!!!
#74. To: Capitalist Eric (#73)
Which changes nothing.
#75. To: Capitalist Eric, We The People (#73)
And when it's all said and done, loonybitch, your government nipple will be gone. :)
#76. To: mininggold (#74)
You anarcho-libertarians doom and gloomers show your true colors when you express your hatred for our constitutional form of representative government.
The people, as you say, already passed the legislation. And can do away with it if they see fit by the same process.
#77. To: Capitalist Eric (#76)
And I really mean that.
#78. To: lucysmom (#71)
Why is that? Don't ask me, you made it up.
#79. To: CZ82 (#78)
Why is that? Don't ask me, you made it up.
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