Health/Medical
See other Health/Medical Articles
Title: European Health Care: Economic Malpractice
Source:
AT.com
URL Source: http://www.americanthinker.com/2011 ... care_economic_malpractice.html
Published: Jan 1, 2012
Author: Hugh de Payns
Post Date: 2012-01-01 10:26:02 by CZ82
Keywords: None
Views: 35928
Comments: 79
European Health Care: Economic Malpractice By Hugh de Payns Any reasonable person does not take satisfaction in the failure and destruction of another. This is especially true when the other is innocent of any wrongdoing or lack of judgment. Yet sometimes, epic failure can constructively serve as an example of what not to do. If the individual states of our nation are a laboratory of democracy, then the states of Europe are the laboratory of socialism. What we are witness to in Greece, and eventually in Spain, Italy, and possibly France, is the painful death of the welfare state. Credit markets are locking up all over the continent; meanwhile, trillions have been pumped into their banks in an effort to keep them afloat. But their situation is so bad that they cannot even take the risk of making business loans. Employment is shrinking, and tax revenues are falling. Internally, the socialist cash-machine is running empty as other people's money dries up. It is all happening just as reader of American Thinker foresaw. The welfare state's demise, long inevitable, will be painful and ugly, and it will harshly impact the weakest and the most innocent of the population. After all, the welfare state defies the laws of economics and the laws of mathematics. Take notice as the liberal and socialist agitators and pundits shake their collectivized fists at the sky and curse the gods without any noticeable change. The facts on the ground will do what they will, despite rhetoric or political pontifications coming from any quarter. One of the first organs to fail is the socialized health care program. No matter its stated merits, a serious and impactful socialized medicine program is simply too expensive for any state to long sustain. For months prior to the passing of ObamaCare, we were told -- repeatedly -- how it would "bend the cost curve downward" and open up better health care for millions of Americans...all at the same time! The problem is that the pundits on the left at the time and still today don't even believe their own rhetoric. In fact, they are either living in a fantasy land that never existed or simply lying. Back in May 2010, bluegrasspundit made mention of the total hypocrisy of the left with regard to ObamaCare. After shilling for ObamaCare for months, the New York Times is now telling Greece getting out of the health care marketplace would allow health care costs to come down. The hypocrisy of the left is simple astounding. The NY Times also made mention of the total impossibility of it all. Another reform high on the list is removing the state from the marketplace in crucial sectors like health care, transportation and energy and allowing private investment. What is also important to make note of is that these socialized countries do not have the traditional bogeyman that leftists point their finger at: a revenue-hungry military. The Greek military is small to the point of insignificance. The same is true with Spain, Italy, and most others on the continent. Their defensive needs were being functionally met and subsidized by the United States. A recent article by the NY Times makes for overwhelming evidence of the disruption and pain this transformation causes to the innocent and the disadvantaged. While the article is slanted politically, it is worth reading in its entirety; the reader must realize that this will happen in other European nations, and eventually here in the U.S. should we be so foolish as to follow their example. At public hospitals, doctors report shortages of all kinds of supplies, from toilet paper to catheters to syringes. Computerized equipment has gone unrepaired and is no longer in use. Nurses are handling four times the patients they should, and wait times for operations -- even cancer surgeries -- have grown longer. Access to drugs has also been affected, as some drug manufacturers, owed tens of millions of dollars, are no longer willing to supply Greek hospitals. At the same time pharmacists, afraid that the government might not reimburse them, are asking for cash payments, even from those with insurance. Brick by brick, the edifice of socialized medicine is ruthlessly and forcefully being taken apart. The lesson here is for our nation to rid ourselves of ObamaCare entirely before it becomes embedded into the fabric of society, because it too will be rooted out by the forces of economics. It is easier to throw out the seed than uproot the plant, so the sooner this is done, the better. Anything less is a form a gross medical malpractice. "There are two places only where socialism will work; In Heaven, where it is not needed, and in Hell, where they already have it." -Winston Churchill
Post Comment Private Reply Ignore Thread
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest
Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 69.
#1. To: CZ82 (#0)
Except that the countries with the strongest economies in the world right now spend more on social welfare services than Greece, Italy, and Ireland (and even the U.S.) For example, Sweden, which has the largest social welfare structure as a percentage of GDP, has a GDP higher now than before the crisis began. Meanwhile, Ireland, which has cut spending by 14% in the last 2 years, still pays around 8% interest on its bonds.
Nice graph, what does it mean?
It shows how much per capita certain countries around the world are spending on healthcare for their citizens......
How is the graph a response to go65's statement: Except that the countries with the strongest economies in the world right now spend more on social welfare services than Greece, Italy, and Ireland (and even the U.S.) All your graph shows is the US spends more money per capita on health care than other countries (Stone is right, we spend more [and get less] making us #1 in cost). That, however, has nothing to do with government spending on social welfare.
Well in a way it shows you get what you pay for.... Mandatory mediocre Socialist healthcare for "everyone" (except the "Elitists") that makes you wait weeks, months, years or maybe never for getting some procedures done.... (and you die in the meantime).... Versus free market healthcare that you can get just about thing done done, anytime and anywhere..... Healthcare that can save your life instead of waiting for some bureaucrat to decide if your ass is worth saving or not... As far as I'm concerned it's up to me, not some douchebag!!!! The only reason ours costs so much is meddling by the government in the healthcare system.... (Trying to force us into Socialist Healthcare)!!!! Did you know that we've had a Socialist type Healthcare system in this country for quite sometime????? Ask any current or prior military member, they can fill you in.....
Statistics just don't bear that out
theincidentaleconomist.co...h-the-wait-times-already/ Why is then that I can get right in and be seen downtown in the free market system and the chart shows 6 days????
The abswer is in the title.
The abswer is in the title. That still doesn't explain why they have to wait and I can be seen right away!!!! Do they live in areas where doctors are a rare commodity because they can't make any money because of government intervention or because of the court system and all the frivolous lawsuits they allow???? I think you also shot GO65 in the foot with that graph too!!! He/she was just so enamoured with Swedens Healthcare system.....
First, the ability to sue is a free market remedy for a wrong done. Why would you wish the state to regulate and put limits on the amount of awards. BTW, California did tort reform in the 70s, and we're socialist - right? Second, your assumptions are just plain wrong.
That Socialized Healthcare sux???? Nope they are right on the money.... Just think of it this way, you're going to put millions more people in the Healthcare system at a time when the government is trying to cut funds from that Healthcare system!!!!!! What do you think that is going to do to your level of Healthcare???? Make it get better???? ROTFLMAO!!!!! What level of care you get currently will go down after ObozoCare is fully implemented, mark my words!!! And don't bother telling me that it will go up because I know that you have good Healthcare Insurance at the present time (that is if you're telling the truth about living in a very nice neighborhood) (By the way a little less gun control would make your neighborhood a safer place)... Wait till you have to go through it then you will see things differently.... Especially when you need a procedure done really bad and they say 6-12 months, if at all!!!! (a procedure that you can currently get done here within a week or 2)..... It will depend on your age and importance to the bureaucrats, if you're old and aren't paying taxes you will be screwed..... It's happening all around the world right now.... pay attention and learn...... Better yet go visit some of those socialized healthcare countries and see it for yourself first hand, like I have.. You will find out you're being lied to by those who say it's the schitt!!!! Remember what I said about we currently have a socialist type healthcare system already in use for the military of this country???? As you know (if you have been paying attention) that I am retired military.... Well I developed an ear infection last fall (first one in over 40 years) and I called the base hospital to get into sick call. I was told that they don't do that anymore (because of funding cuts) and that I could have an appointment "IN 9 DAYS" or could go downtown and pay for it myself.... (Did you know that you can go deaf from ear infections?????) Needless to say I went downtown and got it taken care of that day because I value my hearing.... Do you know how I know that you can go deaf from ear infections????? My youngest daughter is almost totally deaf in one ear from ear infections that the "Socialist" doctors couldn't figure out what was causing them (4 in 4 months).... I ended up taking her downtown to the free market and found out that allergies were causing them, and it only took 1 appointment!!!! They did allergy tests on her, found out what was causing the problems and tailored her medication to her specific allergies.... Within a week she was all cleared up and feeling much better, but the damage was already done she was almost totally deaf in one ear...... The moral of the story..... is that when Healthcare becomes free you won't get any... or at least won't get anything that's worth a schitt!!!
I have no health insurance - pre-existing conditions you know. I pay for my health care out of pocket. Fortunately I'm able to do it for now, but a couple of hospitalizations, and you'll be supporting me with your tax dollars. Wouldn't you rather I had some kind of insurance?
What difference would it really make if you did or didn't have Obamacare, I would still have to support you with my tax dollars!!!! Why do you think so many people want the aliens to be sent home and for the government to get out of the business of stifling job creation in this country!!!! The government has created so many messes in this country all for a few votes and the "FAKE" empathy they feel for us..... As to what you do about your health problems all depends on how much you love your family... and vice versa.... I have seen medical problems leave entire families destitute and heart broken, and I have seen the sick one just leave so the family wouldn't have to face the money problems and mental anguish.... I'm not saying either solution is the right way to go, I'm just saying I have seen it go both ways..... Life isn't fair, never was and never will be.... Some of us only last a few hours or days and others live to be 100.... But since we are here and having to deal with it, all we can do is try to make the best of it!!!!!!!
In this case, the government is the handmaiden of cheap labor employers - the guys you would give free rein to pursue their self interests in any way they see fit. As to what you do about your health problems all depends on how much you love your family... and vice versa.... I have seen medical problems leave entire families destitute and heart broken, and I have seen the sick one just leave so the family wouldn't have to face the money problems and mental anguish.... I'm not saying either solution is the right way to go, I'm just saying I have seen it go both ways..... Yea, a friend's husband's heart valve began to fail. He had no insurance due to his obvious pre-existing condition and killed himself because "he couldn't bear to put his family through the financial hardship". That was pretty devastating. I do see why you fear some bureaucrat deciding whether or not your life is worth saving - it's a reflection of the value you, yourself, puts on life.
Fear no, it's just that he/she shouldn't be in the picture to start with.... It should be between the patient, the doctor and the family as to what happens.... not some idiot that has decided you aren't worth saving because you aren't paying taxes or aren't voting for the people who holds his leash..... So do you want to make your own decisions about your life or are you perfectly happy with someone who doesn't know you or care about you (or your life) making life decisions for you???? Because the latter is what you'll be getting with ObozoCare..... Lets see how dear you hold life..... Do you know that more than likely ObozoCare will kill millions maybe billions of people that probably "wouldn't" have died if ObozoCare were never passed in the first place????? Does that thought appeal to you or scare you??? Have you ever really sat down and thought what the consequences might be of the passage of this bill???? Do you realize that eventually it will effectively neuter this country because of it's cost???? Would you like some examples of what will happen just so a few people can have "THE RIGHT" to get free Healthcare???? 1). Loss of jobs in this country, this bill is a job killer.... Do you think highly trained doctors and nurses want to work for nothing????? They will retire or move to another country before thay work here for peanuts!!! Which also means their employees will be unemployed..... which also means less revenue the government can collect to fund their abortion called ObozoCare!!! Which also means.... 2). The quality of "Everybodys" healthcare will go "DOWN" because you will have med techs doing diagnosis instead of trained healthcare personnel...... which means that some people will die that wouldn't have died under the current system!!!!! 3). There will be people deciding to not have children because they would be bringing them into a world that wants to oppress and exploit them (why do you think most socialist/communist/fascist countries birth rates are almost zero)??? 4). Because of the costs associated with this BS bill a lot of things that we currently do for other countries around the world will have to be eliminated or put on hold..... A). No more giving free food to starving people in poor countries.... B). No more Healthcare assistance to people in poor countries...... C). No more of our military protecting people in foreign countries from their own oppressive governments or from neighboring oppressive governments that want to exploit/enslave/conquer them...... I could probably think of some more negatives if I put my mind to it but why bother, I think what I listed is enough to get the point across.... assuming that you care..... Are you are willing to let millions maybe billions of people die just so a few people that weren't going to die in the first place has free Healthcare?????? Is that the price you're willing to have "others pay" so "YOU" and a "few others" have healthcare coverage???? Especially when 90% or more of those that currently don't have insurance aren't going to die anyway if the "DON'T" get Healthcare insurance!!!!!! The choice is yours, are you selfish or do you actually have empathy?????
Private health insurance providers have already decided I ain't worth insuring. Do you know that more than likely ObozoCare will kill millions maybe billions of people that probably "wouldn't" have died if ObozoCare were never passed in the first place????? Does that thought appeal to you or scare you??? What scares me is that you believe that.
I just forsee that happening in the future because I don't believe in politicians or their BS rhetoric, if you want to believe them then have at it... But that's one of the reasons why the people on this planet have had to endure those like Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Genghis Khan and Bill Clinton..... They were weak minded and believed their BS!!!!!! (Those who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it in the future)...... I bet you also believe that the current ones we have are going to pay off our deficit!!!!!! So what is the real reason why you don't believe the scenario I outlined for you could possibly happen?????? Is it because you don't want to think bad about yourself, or is it because you are deluding yourself into believing the politicians want what is best for you????? Either way I'm going to laugh!!!!!!
Ummm - because real world experience indicates your scenario is imaginative but highly unlikely. ...or is it because you are deluding yourself into believing the politicians want what is best for you????? In general, I think politicians want what's best for when when they perceive it is in their best interest to do so. Isn't that what youse guys call enlightened self interest?
#70. To: lucysmom (#69)
In general, I think politicians want what's best for when when they perceive it is in their best interest to do so. Isn't that what youse guys call enlightened self interest? Then why is the current governments approval rating right at 10%????? Is it because they are "PURPOSELY" driving the country off a cliff with their financial insanity???? Is it because they "PURPOSELY" keep passing legislation that's taking more and more of the average citizens rights away????? (Like ObozoCare and the one Obozo signed the other day that gives the government the right to detain "ANYONE" indefinately without charging them or giving them any calls or lawyers. Originally that legislature exempted US citizens but Obozo wouldn't sign it in that form).... Wonder if he realizes it applies to him too!!! Is it because they "PURPOSELY" keep making more and more regulations that are killing jobs here and keeping the unemployment rate high Is it because they are "PURPOSELY" not closing our borders thereby making us more vulnerable to terrorist attacks????? (All for a few votes)!!!! Sounds to me like nobody other than you and a few others trust them to do what is right...... At a time when they are doing all the wrong things "PURPOSELY"!!! Why is that???
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestYet sometimes, epic failure can constructively serve as an example of what not to do. If the individual states of our nation are a laboratory of democracy, then the states of Europe are the laboratory of socialism. What we are witness to in Greece, and eventually in Spain, Italy, and possibly France, is the painful death of the welfare state.
#39. To: go65 (#1)
Except that the countries with the strongest economies in the world right now spend more on social welfare services than Greece, Italy, and Ireland (and even the U.S.)
#42. To: CZ82 (#39)
#45. To: lucysmom (#42)
Nice graph, what does it mean?
#46. To: CZ82 (#45)
It shows how much per capita certain countries around the world are spending on healthcare for their citizens......
#47. To: lucysmom (#46)
All your graph shows is the US spends more money per capita on health care than other countries (Stone is right, we spend more [and get less] making us #1 in cost). That, however, has nothing to do with government spending on social welfare.
#48. To: CZ82 (#47)
Well in a way it shows you get what you pay for.... Mandatory mediocre Socialist healthcare for "everyone" (except the "Elitists") that makes you wait weeks, months, years or maybe never for getting some procedures done.... (and you die in the meantime).... Versus free market healthcare that you can get just about thing done done, anytime and anywhere..... Healthcare that can save your life instead of waiting for some bureaucrat to decide if your ass is worth saving or not... As far as I'm concerned it's up to me, not some douchebag!!!!
#49. To: lucysmom (#48)
Statistics just don't bear that out
#50. To: CZ82 (#49)
Why is then that I can get right in and be seen downtown in the free market system and the chart shows 6 days????
#51. To: lucysmom (#50)
Why is then that I can get right in and be seen downtown in the free market system and the chart shows 6 days????
#52. To: CZ82 (#51)
That still doesn't explain why they have to wait and I can be seen right away!!!! Do they live in areas where doctors are a rare commodity because they can't make any money because of government intervention or because of the court system and all the frivolous lawsuits they allow????
#55. To: lucysmom (#52)
Second, your assumptions are just plain wrong.
#56. To: CZ82 (#55)
I know that you have good Healthcare Insurance at the present time (that is if you're telling the truth about living in a very nice neighborhood)
#58. To: lucysmom (#56)
Fortunately I'm able to do it for now, but a couple of hospitalizations, and you'll be supporting me with your tax dollars. Wouldn't you rather I had some kind of insurance?
#60. To: CZ82 (#58)
Why do you think so many people want the aliens to be sent home and for the government to get out of the business of stifling job creation in this country!!!! The government has created so many messes in this country all for a few votes and the "FAKE" empathy they feel for us.....
#62. To: lucysmom (#60)
(Edited)
I do see why you fear some bureaucrat deciding whether or not your life is worth saving - it's a reflection of the value you, yourself, puts on life.
#63. To: CZ82 (#62)
So do you want to make your own decisions about your life or are you perfectly happy with someone who doesn't know you or care about you (or your life) making life decisions for you???? Because the latter is what you'll be getting with ObozoCare.....
#66. To: lucysmom (#63)
What scares me is that you believe that.
#69. To: CZ82 (#66)
So what is the real reason why you don't believe the scenario I outlined for you could possibly happen??????
Replies to Comment # 69. ...or is it because you are deluding yourself into believing the politicians want what is best for you?????
End Trace Mode for Comment # 69.
[Home] [Headlines] [Latest Articles] [Latest Comments] [Post] [Mail] [Sign-in] [Setup] [Help] [Register]