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Title: GOP Candidates Discuss Israel-Palestine
Source:
www.huffingtonpost.com
URL Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james ... s-middle-east-_b_1140679.html
Published: Dec 10, 2011
Author: James Zogby
Post Date: 2011-12-10 15:49:25 by Ferret Mike
Keywords: None
Views: 13774
Comments: 33
On Dec. 7, 2012, six Republican candidates for president (Rep. Ron Paul was not invited) appeared before the Republican Jewish Coalition (NRC) to campaign for Christian votes. There are Jewish Republicans, to be sure, but not enough to make a difference in this primary contest. No, the real prize that drew the candidates to the NRC event were the 40 perecent of GOP primary voters who are declared "born-again" Christians who fervently believe that Israel can do no wrong and that it is their religious duty to support any and all Israeli policies as a prerequisite to hasten the "Day of Judgment." The speeches were mostly filled with hysterical criticism of President Obama's "appeasement" of Israel's enemies and hyperbolic praise for Israel (with the exception of John Huntsman, who, after a few pandering platitudes, spoke mostly about the economy -- and was greeted with "stoney silence"). Because their remarks included such irresponsible charges and promises, I have included significant excerpts below in order to give a flavor of how out of touch today's GOP is from current Middle East realities: Newt Gingrich "As President, on my first day in office, I will issue an executive order directing the US Embassy in Israel to be moved to Jerusalem as provided for in the legislation I introduced in Congress in 1995... The United States should explicitly reject the concept of a right of return for Palestinian refugees. The so-called right of return is a historically impossible demand that would be a demographic disaster and mean the end of the Jewish state of Israel. We are for a right to prosperity, a right to freedom, a right to the rule of law, a right to private property, but we must be totally opposed to a right of return...[And] the United Nations camps system must be replaced by a system of earned income and property rights to restore dignity and hope to every Palestinian." [Gingrich on The Jewish Channel, the next day] "Remember there was no Palestine as a state. It was part of the Ottoman Empire. And I think that we've had an invented Palestinian people, who are in fact Arabs, and were historically part of the Arab community. And they had a chance to go many places. And for a variety of political reasons we have sustained this war against Israel now since the 1940s, and I think it's tragic." Michele Bachmann "It seems as if lately, our president has forgotten the importance of Israel to America and thinks of our relationship only in terms of what we do for Israel. The President is more concerned about Israel building homes on its own land than the threats that Israel and America face in the region... Our policy has confused engagement with appeasement and has inspired Israel's enemies." "Obama improperly calls for Israel to retreat to indefensible 1949 armistice lines with swaps, and to then still face further demands to divide Jerusalem and allow a Palestinian 'right of return' to overrun the entire State of Israel. The Obama administration has also unconditionally given the Palestinians unprecedented amounts of U.S. foreign aid, and opposed Congressional efforts to condition aid on the real steps that would bring about peace." "The so-called Palestinian 'right of return,' would demographically destroy Israel by swamping it with millions of Arabs who never lived in Israel, thereby turning the world's only Jewish state into the world's 23rd Arab state." "My administration will fully recognize Jerusalem as Israel's undivided capital... My administration will also recognize Israel's 1980 annexation of the Golan Heights and any settlements, which Israel, as a sovereign state, chooses to annex. Simply put, my administration will accord Israel the respect to which sovereign, democratic nations are entitled." Mitt Romney "Over the past three years, President Obama has... chastened Israel. He's publicly proposed that Israel adopt indefensible borders. He's insulted its Prime Minister. And he's been timid and weak in the face of the existential threat of a nuclear Iran." "These actions have emboldened Palestinian hard-liners who now are poised to form a unity government with terrorist Hamas and feel they can bypass Israel at the bargaining table. President Obama has immeasurably set back the prospect of peace in the Middle East." Rick Perry "President Obama has systematically undermined America's relationship with Israel... I want to be clear I support the goal of a Palestinian state, but it should be the Palestinians who meet certain preconditions." "Instead, the Administration has insisted on previously unheard-of preconditions for Israel, such as an immediate stop to all settlement activity. President Obama has suggested the 1967 borders as a basis for negotiations. And he has instituted the practice of "indirect talks," subverting the Oslo Accords." "Israel does not need our president demanding gratitude for being the best friend Israel has ever had while his Secretary of Defense rails that Israel has to "get back to the damn table" with the Palestinians, and his Secretary of State questions the viability of Israel's democracy, even as his Ambassador to Belgium blames anti-Semitism among Muslims on Israel's failure to accommodate the Palestinians... " This torrent of hostility towards Israel does not seem to have been coordinated, but rather is the natural expression of this administration's attitude towards Israel." * * * All of this goes beyond the normal platitudes offered up in an election year. It was dangerous, shameful, and crass pandering, making it clear how far today's GOP has moved from the reality-based foreign policy of the Bush-Baker era. And while it's hard to imagine the alternate universe inhabited by these candidates for president, it's frightening to think of where they will take U.S.-Middle East policy should any of them be elected.
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#1. To: Ferret Mike (#0)
Israel is the mother country of America - western civilization ! More so than Greece - Rome !
If you ... don't use exclamation points --- you should't be typeing ! Commas - semicolons are for girlie boys !
-- Ex-Israeli Soldiers Speak Out While America Sleeps...Wake Up!!!!
Can you imagine there are still those who believe the biblical myths that ancient Israel actually existed as a great kingdom and civilization. Too bad that great Israel civilization left so little actual evidence as proof.
"ROTFLMAO... Perfect! She longs... for someone to Teabag her. a man that squats on top of a women's face and lowers his genitals into her mouth during sex, known as "teabagging" She aches for it"... ~~~JWpegler. Head Tea Bagger and Tea Party supporter extraordinaire, explicitly expressing his fantasies in public about other posters.
Can you believe that some people are allowed to walk the streets without supervision?
Sometimes (perhaps all the time) you are so full of shit that it pains me to create a post to you. Iran is the mother country, you dumbfuck. Ever hear of Zoroastrianism, that started monotheism practices? Yeah, asshole, and the cult desert rat Jew bastards ripped off those ideas from Zarathustra and formed Judiasm (Abraham and Sarah) and then Jesus of Nazarath ripped offed those ideas from the Jews and initiated Christianity.
Mesopotamia in the fertile land between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers is considered the cradle of Western Civilization. Apparently some people want to re-write the book on how Western culture came to be. And many of them want the world to believe ancient Israel and Judea is our cultural womb so badly they won't even debate the point. Modern Israel is an invented country, the three dollar bill of the Middle East. A place where you have Israelis openly talking about death camps for Palestinians who have bought and paid for sume American presidential candidates who suck up to them by parroting dehumanizing rhetoric about any other people from that region that is Arab and Palestinian that Jewish Zionists don't like. John Kennedy said in his inaugural address that people who seek to climb onto and ride a tiger runs the risk of winding up as it's meal. And some insane Christian Zionists welcome a nuclear war scenario as a good thing to see happen as they feel this is the world's natural Armageddon as Israeli Zionists tighten the girth to the big cat's saddle preparing to suffer the consequences of their bad karma. The Jewish Zionists are not about to contradict these suckers Christian Zionists are because of the money and support this insane notion brings their way. And they do not serve the interests of truth and justice anymore then Hitler and his people who are their former nemesis did. Stone and Boris forget that any country can fall iss with the disease of fascism. And much as the revolt of animals in George Orwell's satire 1984, if Israeli Zionists were dining in the farmhouse with Hitler and company like the pigs dining with the human farmers at the end of the book; a meal with German Nazis and Zionists dining together would have a lot in common and both groups would blur into one entity in the eyes of the beholder. Much as the now enslaved and oppressed former farm animal comrades of the pigs no longer could tell farmer from pig as they looked from one diner to another from their vantage point of being on the outside looking in
Link please. You're not exactly the beacon of high moral standards.
HObama is Napoleon in Animal Farm. He is taking the puppies and teaching them to be faggots and free loaders.
What Middle Eastern country isn't an invented country? The British carved up the Middle East, without regard to historic tribal patterns, after the Ottoman Empire fell. A lot of the problems that exist in the Middle East are due to the British Empire's poor decisions at the beginning of the 20th century. A magazine issued by religious Zionists in Israel called for the creation of 'death camps' for Palestinians. In a report Saturday, Israeli news site Ynet brought to attention a weekly magazine, distributed in synagogues across Israel, which published a religious decree. The diktat, signed by major rabbis, called for the creation of such death camps, citing religious duty. The magazine indicated that the creation of these camps would be the duty of all devote Jews. The 'fatwa' strongly criticised rabbis in opposition, arguing that Palestinians are the 'giants' –perhaps a reference to the Biblical Goliath -- whom God ordered the Israelites to slaughter 2000 years ago -- children, women, elders and even cattle. The rabbis claimed that the Torah compels the Jews to erase all trace of this age's giants, referring to the Palestinians. Even the rabbis that did not sign the fatwa support it in essence, they insisted. Israeli thinker UdiAloni explained that the call for the elimination of the Palestinians -- in such a widespread and public way, notably in synagogues -- arises from a collective acceptance that this is a pragmatic approach. Aloni was shocked no one objected to the rabbis who signed the fatwa, saying that "no one attempted to object, and no one thought of excommunicating these rabbis from the Israeli nation", according to the Ynet report. Source: http://english.ahram.org.eg/ This is from: http://www.middleeastmonitor.org.uk/news/middle-east/1959-israeli-rabbis-call-for-creation-of-death-camps-for-palestinians You are hardly in a position to try to insult me like that, Stone.
How many new countries put on the dog as being a seamless representation of an ancient one?
Top some degree Turkey, Iran (Persia), Egypt, Greece, and Israel.
Israel's claim of national Biblical continuity is unique and different from the way your other examples portray themselves as. by your logic, the Pope considers himself a Roman political because his title of Pontiff is borrowed from the Roman Empire's title of a leader, and because the Roman Catholic Church has a thing for Latin language still.
Witches and satanists don't have eyes to see or ears to hear. But here you go anyway. Isaiah 66:7-8 Isaiah prophecied that Israel would become a nation again and that it would happen in one day! Bible passage: Isaiah 66:7-8 Prophet: Isaiah Written: perhaps between 701-681 BC Fulfilled: 1948 In Isaiah 66:7-8, the prophet foreshadowed the re-birth of Israel, which happened "in one day." The woman giving birth before going into labor represent Israel. This accurately describes what happened on May 14, 1948 - when the Jews declared independence for Israel as a united and sovereign nation for the first time in 2,900 years. During that same day, the United States issued a statement recognizing Israel's sovereignty. And, only hours beforehand, a United Nations mandate expired, ending British control of the land. During a 24-hour span of time, foreign control of the land of Israel had formally ceased, and Israel had declared its independence, and its independence was acknowledged by other nations. Modern Israel was literally was born in a single day. Isaiah said the birth would take place before there would be labor pains. And that too is precisely what happened. A movement called Zionism began in the 1800s to encourage Jews worldwide to move to Israel, which at that time was called Palestine. Within hours of the declaration of independence in 1948, Israel was attacked by the surrounding countries of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Saudi Arabia. When reading Isaiah 66:7-8, keep in mind that Israel's status as a sovereign nation was established and reaffirmed during the course of a single day, and that it was born of a movement called Zionism, and that its declaration of independence was not the result of a war but rather the cause of one.
Don't forget: or:
He is taking the puppies and teaching them to be faggots and free loaders." Napoleon never promoted something you can't turn people into something they are not, and none of the other animals enjoyed the perks and privileges of his fellow pigs. Your contention is lame and has no legs to stand on. Which is one reason you are reduced to one sentence retorts instead of developing an argument that takes time effort and having the facts on your side to do.
You really need to read the history of the area during that era. It was a long process, originating many years before. You make it sound like sorcery. Isn't that considered satanic by some?
"ROTFLMAO... Perfect! She longs... for someone to Teabag her. a man that squats on top of a women's face and lowers his genitals into her mouth during sex, known as "teabagging" She aches for it"... ~~~JWpegler. Head Tea Bagger and Tea Party supporter extraordinaire, explicitly expressing his fantasies in public about other posters.
Your point was that Israel is an invented country. I pointed out that all Middle Eastern countries are invented. Then you changed the criteria for condemning them. The fact is that genetic studies have shown that Jewish communities from Europe, the Middle East and the Caucasus all have substantial genetic ancestry that traces back 3,000 years to the Levant. In other words, throughout history Jews mostly bred within their own communities, unlike most other immigrant groups who wound up widely breading with members of the host community. It shouldn't be any surprising that these people have a strong sense of racial/ethnic identity and cultural history and that they see modern Israel as a continuation of their ancient home. So what?
Yep, the Roman Empire and Byzantine Empires ran parts of the Middle East as well. The map of the Middle East has been in constant flux for thousands of years.
My point borrows from Newt's words when he describes Palestinians. You should not get so excited about such a retort making tongue in cheek sport of that idiot embedded in my comments. Biblical inspiration to market themselves as being a continuation of Biblical Israel is a ploy and an interesting sales technique that has had success in fooling many people. That is my point.
One can find sources contradicting each other on that point. I am not convinced, and I also find that as scetchy justification for Zionism. I mean, it's not like Israel wants any people to be restored to their ancestor's lands. last I heard they have yet to fund and militarize the Dine, Cherokees or any other tribe of indigenous North American peoples to promote a concept of country regeneration.
Why would they?
Why would they invent a modern new country claiming they have a Biblical right to do so? In other words, back atcha.
Stone...I would encourage you to look into Zionism...it is VERY different than Hebrew-ism, or the religion that follows the Torah. Zionists follow the Babylonian Talmud, a COMPLETELY different animal. I'd be curious to see how you think Rev: 2-9 and Rev: 3-9 refer to 2-9 I know your afflictions and your poverty—yet you are rich! I know about the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan 3- 9 I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.
Because they wanted a piece of land that they could control, rather than being unwelcome carpetbaggers in Europe. The close ties they kept as a people through history made it easy for them to claim to an ongoing society that continued from the time that they were in the Levant 2,000 years ago until they reclaimed it. Why is it so hard for you to get this? I'm not making any judgement on whether or not their views and behavior are right. I'm just stating facts.
I know the sales pitch well. As a youth I adored books by Loen Uris such as Exodus, Mila 18, Topez, which dealt in that concept with rose colored sunglasses on. Native Americans are similarly strangers in their own land with only the concentration camps of reservations to call their home in a country that has never not broken a treaty with them. Following the Israel model, the UN should repossess the land stolen from them such as that stolen before pushing several Eastern tripes on the Trail of Tears in the early 19th Century. They too need a cultural renaissance and redemption for how well they assimilated into the weave of new peoples around them until greedy White people stole their home from them. That is, if you take Israel as a precedent for how justice for uprooted people should logically be served. There are plenty of places they could of settled after the Nazis fell and the Shoah ended. And they also could of settled where they are had they worked for a real democracy and sought a country that gave equal protection under the law with representation in government for everyone in a fair and equatable way. I am frankly dismayed and deeply disappointed in them. I have grown to dislike and distrust the Zionists, and fel they do deep damage and disservice to the Jewish people whom I have nothing against.
You are not understanding the point, at all. Tribes are about self-preservation. The Jews preserved themselves in 2,000 years of exile. They don't give a damn about American Indians or other's peoples "democratic rights". They care about themselves. They are NOT going to give up political control of Israel to anyone. No, we shouldn't be taking sides or giving anyone in the Middle East foreign aide. It's none of our business what they do. Just like it was none of our business when Hutu's and the Tutsi's murdered each other in Rwanda.
Absolutely right, Mike. Moreover, that mutherfucker, dumbfuck borisy doesn't know diddly-squaqt about his jewish ancestry. His ancestral jewish buddies were nothing but nomads running amuck in the desert fucking camels, sheep, sisters, brothers and mothers and anything else they could push their peckers into; some even think that they were swine fuckers. But that was around 2000 BCE before they lost their animist rites of fucking everything around their tents in a place called "Jerusalem." Then in 500 BCE they ran off to Babylon, where they were finally kicked out being introduced to Gilgamesh and Zoroastrian religions which taught them some sense of human civility. So back to Jerusalem they went and Abraham and Sarah founded the Jewish cult with the idea of what was learned from Iranians. Yeah, the jews were just a bunch of swine fuckers. It took Moses to tell them to grow up WAYYY after Abraham left the planet. They still are, too.
-- I understand well. Do you think this child came to his hatred of Gentiles, Jesus and private property ownership in a vacuum? He got this from his adult role models. And this is not an isolated point of view and attitude he is displaying here. So, you are correct that many people in Israel who are fervent Zionists don't give a damn about anyone but themselves. I understand the situation quite well. I also have trained in the Army with IDF officers and have actually been to Egypt as a guest of a retired Egyptian officer with whom I worked with at Portland Saturday Market and with whom I work with to acquire and ship used computers and other equipment to Egypt. I read new books on the Middle East and actively keep up to date with news of that region quite pro-actively. I agree with you in terms of how we should cut aid to Israel and others in that region, but I also feel that mankind as a whole has a responsibility to interdict, end and prosecute genocide. Be it in Israel, Rwanda, Cambodia, Bosnia or anywhere else.
Thanks, and good post. Thanks for your input here. And thanks for showing you are educated enough to know what Common Era (CE) and Before Common Era (BCE) is. Stone and many others don't like this new way to secularize the dating system that measures from the year of Jesus' believed birth year. Many of them will argue the AD and BC are still the labels for both periods, and sacrilege to do anything other then to use the out of date labels.
Another problem is that some of the most extremist "settlers" in the West Bank are actually America citizens. They walk around at night with Uzis strapped on their backs, cutting down Palestinian olive trees, and the Palestinians know that they Americans. This leads them to believe that they are agents of the U.S., which causes us grief with terrorism. I don't agree that we have any responsibility to anyone in the Middle East. We should high-tail it out of there. No foreign aide and no military support. There is a law prohibiting Americans conducting foreign policy. American settlers on the West Bank are essentially conducting foreign policy. We should also get rid of the entire notion of dual citizenship. If an American moves to another country and claims citizenship there, we should revoke their passport and citizenship.
I don't have any argument with much of your post. This is a well laid out position that shows you are well informed on the realities and issues of this region. I can well respect that, even should we disagree on some things you speak of. Thanks.
You are another dumbfuck. The Jewish religion has many various sects, none of which are called "Zionists." Zionists which Stone described are JEWS that intend or in the past intended to re-establish Israel and Jerusalem. Their variation of Jewish sects have nothing to do with your gibberish. The Torah is the first five books of the in the Hebrew scriptures; also the whole of the scriptures; also the entire corpus of revelation; including the oral Torah. The Talmud *IS* the oral Torah comprised of Mishnah and Gemara; exists in both a Palestinian and Babylonian version. As I said before, the JEWS took Gilgamesh and Zoroastrianism ideas and came up with their own unique desert cult as they sat around the campfires outside of their tents using camel dung to enjoy as a heating source. Oh and one more thing, the JEWS completely disregard the New Testament. Christ was just another man and your reference to Revelations is further proof of your babbling.
#2. To: BorisY (#1)
#3. To: Ferret Mike (#2)
(Edited)
Ex-Israeli Soldiers Speak Out While America Sleeps...Wake Up!!!!
#4. To: cz82 (#3)
#5. To: BorisY (#1)
Israel is the mother country of America - western civilization !
#6. To: buckeroo (#5)
#7. To: Ferret Mike (#6)
A place where you have Israelis openly talking about death camps for Palestinians
#8. To: Ferret Mike (#6)
#9. To: Ferret Mike (#6)
(Edited)
Modern Israel is an invented country, the three dollar bill of the Middle East.
#10. To: A K A Stone (#7)
(Edited)
Israeli rabbis call for creation of 'death camps' for Palestinians
#11. To: jwpegler (#9)
"What Middle Eastern country isn't an invented country?"
#12. To: Ferret Mike (#11)
(Edited)
How many new countries put on the dog as being a seamless representation of an ancient one?
#13. To: jwpegler (#12)
#14. To: Ferret Mike (#10)
#15. To: jwpegler (#9)
#16. To: A K A Stone (#8)
"[Obama] is Napoleon in Animal Farm.
#17. To: A K A Stone (#14)
(Edited)
When reading Isaiah 66:7-8, keep in mind that Israel's status as a sovereign nation was established and reaffirmed during the course of a single day, and that it was born of a movement called Zionism, and that its declaration of independence was not the result of a war but rather the cause of one.
#18. To: Ferret Mike (#13)
(Edited)
Israel's claim of national Biblical continuity is unique and different from the way your other examples portray themselves as.
#19. To: Happy Quanzaa (#15)
#20. To: jwpegler (#18)
"Your point was that Israel is an invented country."
#21. To: jwpegler (#18)
"The fact is that genetic studies have shown that Jewish communities from Europe, the Middle East and the Caucasus all have substantial genetic ancestry that traces back 3,000 years to the Levant"
#22. To: Ferret Mike (#21)
last I heard they have yet to fund and militarize the Dine, Cherokees or any other tribe of indigenous North American peoples to promote a concept of country regeneration.
#23. To: jwpegler (#22)
"Why would they?"
#24. To: A K A Stone (#14)
A movement called Zionism began in the 1800s to encourage Jews worldwide to move to Israel
#25. To: Ferret Mike (#23)
(Edited)
Why would they invent a modern new country claiming they have a Biblical right to do so?
#26. To: jwpegler (#25)
#27. To: Ferret Mike (#26)
(Edited)
#28. To: Ferret Mike, borisy the dumbfuck Jew (#6)
(Edited)
Mesopotamia in the fertile land between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers is considered the cradle of Western Civilization.
#29. To: jwpegler (#27)
#30. To: buckeroo (#28)
#31. To: Ferret Mike (#29)
(Edited)
I agree with you in terms of how we should cut aid to Israel and others in that region
#32. To: jwpegler (#31)
#33. To: freedomsnotfree, A K A Stone (#24)
Stone...I would encourage you to look into Zionism...it is VERY different than Hebrew-ism, or the religion that follows the Torah. Zionists follow the Babylonian Talmud, a COMPLETELY different animal. I'd be curious to see how you think Rev: 2-9 and Rev: 3-9 refer to
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