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Title: Philip Pilkington: Libertarianism and the Leap of Faith – The Origins of a Political Cult
Source:
Naked Capitalism
URL Source: http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011 ... igins-of-a-political-cult.html
Published: Dec 7, 2011
Author: Philip Pilkington
Post Date: 2011-12-07 09:29:50 by lucysmom
Keywords: None
Views: 27077
Comments: 65
You wanted God’s ideas about what was best for you to coincide with your ideas, but you also wanted him to be the almighty Creator of heaven and earth so that he could properly fulfil your wish. And yet, if he were to share your ideas, he would cease to be the almighty Father.
– Søren Kierkegaard
Political cults often have the strangest and most obscure origins. Take Marxism, for example. Today it is well-known that Marxist doctrine essentially sprang out of the obscure 19th century economic debates over the source of ‘value’. By ‘proving’ – that is, lifting the assumption from classical political economy – that all ‘value’ came from labour, Karl Marx went on to show that it was therefore only logical to assume the existence of something called ‘surplus value’ that was sucked out of labourers by a parasitic capitalist class. From out of this obscure debate flowed an awesome political movement – and a tyranny to match.
What is less well-known is that today’s most popular political cult – that is, libertarianism – was born in very similar circumstances; it too, arrived into the world out of the obscure 19th century debates over economic ‘value’. But before we explore this in any detail it might be appropriate to speculate a little on what characterises a political cult and why so many of these find their sustenance in economic theories of value.
What is a Political Cult and Why Do they Often Love Economic Value Theory?
A political cult is characterised by a political or economic doctrine that answers all the ‘big questions’ about life, the world and everything else. The doctrine that is handed down is then to be conceived of as a way to live one’s life – a project, handed down from Mount Sinai, that one is under the moral obligation to spread far and wide. This is why we refer to these movements as cults. And it is this that gives them such an awesome status in the glazed eyes of their devotees.
Under such circumstances, politics becomes a sort of religious calling. In these doctrines there is usually an ‘Evil Being’ who is opposing the spread of the ‘Good’ on earth and it is these that are to blame for all the bad things in the world. In Marxism this Evil Being is the capitalist; in libertarianism it is the figure who is at different times referred to as the ‘collectivist’, the ‘liberal’ or the ‘socialist’. Needless to say that, since these figures are usually ones of Extreme Evil they must be ‘liquidated’ or ‘eliminated’ at the first possible opportunity lest they spread their Demonic Gospel to the masses.
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#1. To: Capitalist Eric (#0)
Does that not describe you Eric?
Wall Street owns the country…Our laws are the output of a system which clothes rascals in robes and honesty in rags. The [political] parties lie to us and the political speakers mislead us…Money rules. Mary Elizabeth Lease, 1890
Ping.
Wall Street owns the country…Our laws are the output of a system which clothes rascals in robes and honesty in rags. The [political] parties lie to us and the political speakers mislead us…Money rules. Mary Elizabeth Lease, 1890
You are in a marxist cult.
You are in a marxist cult too.
Surplus value equals profits. What is wrong with profits? If I do the legwork and develop a business. I am not going to pay the person all of the money they produce for me. I am going to take my cut. Your marxist beliefs are an affront to the creator. He doesn't want you coveting someone else's stuff.
Better yet. Let Rand Paul destroy the whole concept of your thread.
There is nothing wrong with profits. I'm all in favor of profits. Your marxist beliefs are an affront to the creator. He doesn't want you coveting someone else's stuff. The stop whining about public employee's pensions.
Wall Street owns the country…Our laws are the output of a system which clothes rascals in robes and honesty in rags. The [political] parties lie to us and the political speakers mislead us…Money rules. Mary Elizabeth Lease, 1890
Maybe public employees shouldn't receive pensions.
That's just envy and spit talking.
Wall Street owns the country…Our laws are the output of a system which clothes rascals in robes and honesty in rags. The [political] parties lie to us and the political speakers mislead us…Money rules. Mary Elizabeth Lease, 1890
No it is reality. Leaders are elected to serve short terms, 2 to 4 years. They don't have the lawful authority to offer money beyond their term in office. That is how we end up with parasites at the license bureau and other government agencies. Parasites.
I bet you belong to a free market cult.
"ROTFLMAO... Perfect! She longs... for someone to Teabag her. a man that squats on top of a women's face and lowers his genitals into her mouth during sex, known as "teabagging" She aches for it"... ~~~JWpegler. Head Tea Bagger and Tea Party supporter extraordinaire, explicitly expressing his fantasies in public about other posters.
How old is this video? Rand sounds like he hasn't even read the GAO report that his dad helped authorize.
"ROTFLMAO... Perfect! She longs... for someone to Teabag her. a man that squats on top of a women's face and lowers his genitals into her mouth during sex, known as "teabagging" She aches for it"... ~~~JWpegler. Head Tea Bagger and Tea Party supporter extraordinaire, explicitly expressing his fantasies in public about other posters.
It was before was elected. Aug 21, 2009. It showed the date several times throughout the video. Did you actually watch it?
That's an interesting theory. Perhaps you would reference the authority stating such.
Wall Street owns the country…Our laws are the output of a system which clothes rascals in robes and honesty in rags. The [political] parties lie to us and the political speakers mislead us…Money rules. Mary Elizabeth Lease, 1890
Thomas Jefferson. You know the guy who said separation of church and state. http://lachlan.bluehaze.com.au/lit/jeff03.htm
I listened to it. Why woud you post something that's so obviously out of date.
"ROTFLMAO... Perfect! She longs... for someone to Teabag her. a man that squats on top of a women's face and lowers his genitals into her mouth during sex, known as "teabagging" She aches for it"... ~~~JWpegler. Head Tea Bagger and Tea Party supporter extraordinaire, explicitly expressing his fantasies in public about other posters.
Here is what you wrote: Leaders are elected to serve short terms, 2 to 4 years. They don't have the lawful authority to offer money beyond their term in office. Please explain how a letter written by Jefferson to Madison establishes a "lawful authority".
Wall Street owns the country…Our laws are the output of a system which clothes rascals in robes and honesty in rags. The [political] parties lie to us and the political speakers mislead us…Money rules. Mary Elizabeth Lease, 1890
Because the truth is always in style.
Hardly. The information I put out there, is widely available, historically supported, easily verified. I put out THE TRUTH. You, OTOH, are perfectly described by this quote. Your knee-jerk socialism, where you think you can dictate how much other earn, how much money is "too much," and how others should spend their hard-earned money, is your game. You think you have the secret formula for how others should earn their money, how they should SPEND it, how they should invest it, etcetera. ANYONE who disagrees with your bullshit views are labled as "greedy," or some equally stupid word, which demonstrates your gross ignorance, instead of their character. QUESTION: What has been the historical medium of money for over 3000 years? ANSWER: Gold and silver. Not "certificates," but PHYSICAL gold and silver. QUESTION: WHY do you think it is, that national banks all over the world are buying gold in massive quantities? ANSWER: Because they're the natural store of value that fiat currencies lack. QUESTION: WHAT is the natural result of all fiat currencies, eventually (100% consistent record)? ANSWER: Complete devaluation to the intrinsic value of the paper it's printed on. QUESTION: WHY should someone be labled a "front-man" because he advocates that people take steps to PRESERVE WHAT THEY'VE WORKED ALL THEIR LIFE TO ACQUIRE??? ANSWER: Because you're one STUPID bitch, who prefers to swallow the propaganda... and HATES that the rest of us aren't as stupid and gullible as you are. I take great comfort, knowing that the future is going to give you everything you so rightfully deserve... and it's gonna' give it to you, good and hard.
DUMMY DwarF: ...I'm eating a meatball... "Whenver the dwarf sees something negative about a Democrat, he tries to change the topic of the thread to something else. Usually a personal attack, followed by mutterings about correct 'grammar' 'spelling' whatever. Anything he can think of to avoid a discussion about a Democrat screwing up or looking bad. It's a decade long pattern." --Badeye observation-- I put out THE TRUTH. OK, let's look at an example of your "truth". QUESTION: What has been the historical medium of money for over 3000 years? ANSWER: Gold and silver. Not "certificates," but PHYSICAL gold and silver. I'm sure YOU believe your answer to be correct, however it is not. Gold and silver have been "a", not "the" medium of exchange on and off through history. Historically shells, cattle, copper, bronze, and leather were used as a mediums of exchange; paper money was used in 9th century China. In England King Henry the First produced sticks of polished wood, with notches cut along one edge to signify the denominations. The stick was then split full length so each piece still had a record of the notches. The King kept one half for proof against counterfeiting, and then spent the other half into the market place where it would continue to circulate as money. Because only Tally Sticks were accepted by Henry for payment of taxes, there was a built in demand for them, which gave people confidence to accept these as money. He could have used anything really, so long as the people agreed it had value, and his willingness to accept these sticks as legal tender made it easy for the people to agree. Money is only as valuable as peoples faith in it, and without that faith even today's money is just paper. The tally stick system worked really well for 726 years. It was the most successful form of currency in recent history and the British Empire was actually built under the Tally Stick system... Wall Street owns the country…Our laws are the output of a system which clothes rascals in robes and honesty in rags. The [political] parties lie to us and the political speakers mislead us…Money rules. Mary Elizabeth Lease, 1890
ANSWER: Gold and silver. Not "certificates," but PHYSICAL gold and silver. I'm sure YOU believe your answer to be correct, however it is not. Gold and silver have been "a", not "the" medium of exchange on and off through history. Thank you for demonstrating my point to a "T." YOU are not interested in any facts which contradict your foolish opinions. I couldn't have proven the point better, if I tried. Thanks for playing, you stupid, STUPID sheep. Now go back to the more entertaining fiction commonly referred to as the "evening news," and be content in your dull stupidity, until they shear you as the idiot sheep you really are. Oh, and BTW, your linked "source" is bogus, because it doesn't go back nearly far enough. Nice try, bitch, but you fail. AGAIN.
DUMMY DwarF: ...I'm eating a meatball... "Whenver the dwarf sees something negative about a Democrat, he tries to change the topic of the thread to something else. Usually a personal attack, followed by mutterings about correct 'grammar' 'spelling' whatever. Anything he can think of to avoid a discussion about a Democrat screwing up or looking bad. It's a decade long pattern." --Badeye observation-- You must have got him good as all he can do AGAIN is blubber around in his usual name calling mode.
"ROTFLMAO... Perfect! She longs... for someone to Teabag her. a man that squats on top of a women's face and lowers his genitals into her mouth during sex, known as "teabagging" She aches for it"... ~~~JWpegler. Head Tea Bagger and Tea Party supporter extraordinaire, explicitly expressing his fantasies in public about other posters.
There; corrected that sentence of yours enough to make it a true statement.
There; corrected that sentence of yours enough to make it a true statement. Mike. That is not a true statement. Eric deals in facts regularly.
Leaders are elected to serve short terms, 2 to 4 years. They don't have the lawful authority to offer money beyond their term in office. Please explain how a letter written by Jefferson to Madison establishes a "lawful authority". Thomas Jefferson wrote it so it is the law. :) It is natural law and common sense. You are a disadvantage so I won't pick on you.
What do you think of CE's response to my post. Would you call it on topic? Is that the sort of debate you wish to encourage? Thanks for playing, you stupid, STUPID sheep. Now go back to the more entertaining fiction commonly referred to as the "evening news," and be content in your dull stupidity, until they shear you as the idiot sheep you really are.
Wall Street owns the country…Our laws are the output of a system which clothes rascals in robes and honesty in rags. The [political] parties lie to us and the political speakers mislead us…Money rules. Mary Elizabeth Lease, 1890
Another example of the "facts" he posts, and the "truth" he deals in daily.
Wall Street owns the country…Our laws are the output of a system which clothes rascals in robes and honesty in rags. The [political] parties lie to us and the political speakers mislead us…Money rules. Mary Elizabeth Lease, 1890
Too bad you haven't learned to discern 'facts' from 'opinion' yet. Maybe you should take some remedial courses while you are laid up.
"ROTFLMAO... Perfect! She longs... for someone to Teabag her. a man that squats on top of a women's face and lowers his genitals into her mouth during sex, known as "teabagging" She aches for it"... ~~~JWpegler. Head Tea Bagger and Tea Party supporter extraordinaire, explicitly expressing his fantasies in public about other posters.
He also likes to try to taunt and bait. What I say is true. He only deals in facts if he likes someone's politics. Quid proquo, he gets what he gives. Or are you going to start lecturing to him too about how I deal in facts and he should stop acting like I don't? Heh, you are never worried when he gives worse to Lucysmom or others in here, just when people like me do. Which is my point. Thanks for walking into that display of your double standard. Now, go ahead and do the other half of that, warn me not to and leave him alone when he does this, like you like to do.
Eric is like Murron in the strong desire to drive away political opponents and seeing how much he can control and influence the process. Stone does not like his buddy's balls being busted, but he doesn't care if it happens to those he doesn't agree with very often. It's one of the ways he thinks is a smart way to manage his forum.
I call them internet paper thugs. And they don't appear to be appealing to many if the appearance of this forum is any indication. There's more support for Ron Paul on DU than this forum.
"ROTFLMAO... Perfect! She longs... for someone to Teabag her. a man that squats on top of a women's face and lowers his genitals into her mouth during sex, known as "teabagging" She aches for it"... ~~~JWpegler. Head Tea Bagger and Tea Party supporter extraordinaire, explicitly expressing his fantasies in public about other posters.
What would the elite be doing on a popular site?
Wall Street owns the country…Our laws are the output of a system which clothes rascals in robes and honesty in rags. The [political] parties lie to us and the political speakers mislead us…Money rules. Mary Elizabeth Lease, 1890
Eric does not want status posters here in any greater number unless they are willing to agree with him and can occasionally 'admire' his perceived intellect. If Stone wishes, he can do a to/from search and find I was more then civil to this Eric character when he first came and never got reciprocity unless it involved how I took on the now departed for the most part Mad Dog. Stone also has too much vested interest in grooming people like HQ and Eric to worry about whether he has a double standard or not, or to notice my taunt back at this joker is far milder and is done to make the point he walked into. I didn't expect Eric to notice it as he has me on bozo. So, why would I waste my time with a mild retort unless I was making a point? ;-D
They would be wasting their precious time mainly preaching to the choir on this one.
"ROTFLMAO... Perfect! She longs... for someone to Teabag her. a man that squats on top of a women's face and lowers his genitals into her mouth during sex, known as "teabagging" She aches for it"... ~~~JWpegler. Head Tea Bagger and Tea Party supporter extraordinaire, explicitly expressing his fantasies in public about other posters.
Well, they certainly are tow dimensional enough to rate that appellation. Stone also likes HQ's pick on the President's daughters tabloid thread and other threads almost that pointless and lynch grade fare tailor made to encourage discussion among conservatives like him ,and to discourage participation of those he least agrees with politically and socially. How this place is run has a strong influence on how many and how often people come to this Internet venue. And Eric does not want it bigger a forum if it gets in the way of his egocentric games.
Having too many posters with varied viewpoints taxes Stones ability to moderate opinion here.
"ROTFLMAO... Perfect! She longs... for someone to Teabag her. a man that squats on top of a women's face and lowers his genitals into her mouth during sex, known as "teabagging" She aches for it"... ~~~JWpegler. Head Tea Bagger and Tea Party supporter extraordinaire, explicitly expressing his fantasies in public about other posters.
In all fairness, Eric was taunted from the very first post of this thread. He is being deliberately taunted by lucysmom with these 'libertarianism is a cult' and similar articles and that has been going on for at least a week. In fact, the last 5 'Cult Watch' articles have been posted by lucysmom and concern libertarianism as a cult. In many of those threads she either mentions Eric or pings him directly in her very first post. Do the search and see for yourself. Eric is not the only one who taunts and baits here. Then she cries to Stone about the treatment she gets due to her own taunting. What if we all stopped taunting? Wouldn't that be great? Like all cults they provide an anchor for their devotees with which they can fasten themselves to a rigid doctrine. They also typically lend their devotees a Holier-Than-Thou attitude as they provide them with ‘secrets’ that those outside of the cult cannot grasp. Not only does this allow the devotees to feel ‘special’, in modern political cults it also gives them practical, albeit ‘secret’ advice about what they should do in their day-to-day lives. (Think of the advice to buy gold or foreign stocks coming out of certain libertarian front men, for example). Does that not describe you Eric?
Thanks for the heads up. That is for real cults.
Thanks for the heads up. That is for real cults. The word cult is frequently used to describe radical political groups on the left as well as on the right. Please don't take my word for it, but check it out for yourself.
Wall Street owns the country…Our laws are the output of a system which clothes rascals in robes and honesty in rags. The [political] parties lie to us and the political speakers mislead us…Money rules. Mary Elizabeth Lease, 1890
Just the fact that you can write the above speaks volumes.
Wall Street owns the country…Our laws are the output of a system which clothes rascals in robes and honesty in rags. The [political] parties lie to us and the political speakers mislead us…Money rules. Mary Elizabeth Lease, 1890
I believe he believes most non-christian faiths are cults. If you asked him what a cult is, I would not be surprised if he answered, well, cults are cults, and crap that are not cults are not cults. There is an official definition of cults in the science of Sociology, but I kow he doesn't know it, and would take issue with it if he did,
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestLike all cults they provide an anchor for their devotees with which they can fasten themselves to a rigid doctrine. They also typically lend their devotees a Holier-Than-Thou attitude as they provide them with ‘secrets’ that those outside of the cult cannot grasp. Not only does this allow the devotees to feel ‘special’, in modern political cults it also gives them practical, albeit ‘secret’ advice about what they should do in their day-to-day lives. (Think of the advice to buy gold or foreign stocks coming out of certain libertarian front men, for example).
#2. To: Not Badeye, A K A Stone, Fred Mertz, Godwinson, go65, war, no gnu taxes, Skip Intro, ferret mike, jwpegler, mininggold, brian s, mcgowanjm (#0)
Faced with the impossibility of mathematically deriving prices and quantities on the one hand and a metric of social welfare on the other, some Marginalists understood the limitations of their utility calculus. Mainly of an Austrian persuasion (most notably Ludwig von Mises, Friedrich von Hayek and Joseph Schumpeter), they even gallantly tried to use this failure to the advantage of their claims on behalf of untrammelled markets and against the encroachments of collective agencies, trade unions, governments etc.
#3. To: lucysmom (#0)
Political cults often have the strangest and most obscure origins. Take Marxism,
#4. To: lucysmom (#2)
#5. To: lucysmom (#0)
s therefore only logical to assume the existence of something called ‘surplus value’ that was sucked out of labourers by a parasitic capitalist class.
#6. To: lucysmom (#0)
#7. To: A K A Stone (#5)
What is wrong with profits?
#8. To: lucysmom (#7)
The stop whining about public employee's pensions.
#9. To: A K A Stone (#8)
Maybe public employees shouldn't receive pensions.
#10. To: lucysmom (#9)
That's just envy and spit talking.
#11. To: A K A Stone (#3)
You are in a marxist cult.
#12. To: A K A Stone (#6)
(Edited)
#13. To: mininggold (#12)
(Edited)
#14. To: A K A Stone (#10)
Leaders are elected to serve short terms, 2 to 4 years. They don't have the lawful authority to offer money beyond their term in office.
#15. To: lucysmom (#14)
#16. To: A K A Stone (#13)
It was before was elected. Aug 21, 2009. It showed the date several times throughout the video. Did you actually watch it?
#17. To: A K A Stone (#15)
Letter from Thomas Jefferson - "The Earth belongs to the Living"
#18. To: mininggold (#16)
Why woud you post something that's so obviously out of date.
#19. To: lucysmom (#1)
Like all cults they provide an anchor for their devotees with which they can fasten themselves to a rigid doctrine. They also typically lend their devotees a Holier-Than-Thou attitude as they provide them with ‘secrets’ that those outside of the cult cannot grasp. Not only does this allow the devotees to feel ‘special’, in modern political cults it also gives them practical, albeit ‘secret’ advice about what they should do in their day-to-day lives. (Think of the advice to buy gold or foreign stocks coming out of certain libertarian front men, for example). Does that not describe you Eric?
Like all cults they provide an anchor for their devotees with which they can fasten themselves to a rigid doctrine. They also typically lend their devotees a Holier-Than-Thou attitude as they provide them with ‘secrets’ that those outside of the cult cannot grasp.
(Think of the advice to buy gold or foreign stocks coming out of certain libertarian front men, for example).
Capitalist Eric: Foreplay before the president's staff? 
#20. To: Capitalist Eric (#19)
Hardly. The information I put out there, is widely available, historically supported, easily verified.
#21. To: lucysmom (#20)
(Edited)
QUESTION: What has been the historical medium of money for over 3000 years?
Capitalist Eric: Foreplay before the president's staff?
#22. To: lucysmom (#20)
The tally stick system worked really well for 726 years. It was the most successful form of currency in recent history and the British Empire was actually built under the Tally Stick system...
#23. To: Capitalist Eric (#21)
Eric: I am
YOU are not interested in any facts which contradict your foolish opinions. 
#24. To: Ferret Mike (#23)
Eric: I am YOU are not interested in any facts which contradict your foolish opinions.
#25. To: mininggold (#18)
Here is what you wrote:
#26. To: A K A Stone, Ferret Mike (#24)
Mike. That is not a true statement. Eric deals in facts regularly.
#27. To: mininggold, Capitalist Eric (#22)
You must have got him good as all he can do AGAIN is blubber around in his usual name calling mode.
#28. To: A K A Stone (#24)
(Edited)
Mike. That is not a true statement. Eric deals in facts regularly.
#29. To: A K A Stone (#24)
"That is not a true statement. Eric deals in facts regularly."
#30. To: mininggold (#28)
"Too bad you haven't yet you haven't learned to discern 'facts' from 'opinion' yet. Maybe you should take some remedial courses while you are laid up."
#31. To: Ferret Mike (#30)
(Edited)
#32. To: mininggold (#31)
And they don't appear to be appealing to many if the appearance of this forum is any indication.
#33. To: lucysmom, mininggold (#32)
"What would the elite be doing on a popular site?"
#34. To: lucysmom (#32)
What would the elite be doing on a popular site?
#35. To: mininggold (#31)
"I call them internet paper thugs."
#36. To: Ferret Mike, A K A Stone (#35)
How this place is run has a strong influence on how many and how often people come to this Internet venue.
#37. To: Ferret Mike, mininggold, lucysmom, CapitalistEric, A K A Stone (#29)
He also likes to try to taunt and bait.
#38. To: We The People (#37)
In fact, the last 5 'Cult Watch' articles have been posted by lucysmom and concern libertarianism as a cult.
#39. To: A K A Stone (#38)
#40. To: We The People (#37)
Then she cries to Stone about the treatment she gets due to her own taunting.
#41. To: lucysmom (#40)
.
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