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International News
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Title: Germany Threatens To Halt Submarine Sale to Israel
Source: SPIEGEL ONLINE
URL Source: http://www.spiegel.de/international ... ,1518,794991,00.html#ref=nlint
Published: Oct 31, 2011
Author: SPIEGEL ONLINE
Post Date: 2011-10-31 19:13:16 by Brian S
Keywords: None
Views: 39210
Comments: 87

Germany is threatening to stop the delivery of a "Dolphin" submarine to Israel in protest over the country's settlement policies. Government sources confirmed the development when asked by SPIEGEL following speculation last week in the Israeli media that Germany might halt the sale.

The move is in response to the recent decision by the Israeli government to approve the construction of 1,100 homes in Gilo, an Arab part of Jerusalem captured from Jordan in the 1967 Six Day War. The Israeli government considers the area to be a Jewish suburb, but the international community contests that description.

The threat by German Chancellor Angela Merkel has been the subject of considerable concern in Israel.

The nuclear-weapons capable Dolphin submarines are an important part of the Israeli military strategy. The navy already owns three of the submarines and two further vessels are currently being built by Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft (HDW), the shipbuilding division of German steelmaker Thyssen-Krupp, in Kiel, Germany.

This summer, the German government approved €135 million ($189 million) in funding to assist Israel with the purchase of a sixth Dolphin submarine over the next four years. Now, however, that deal for the sixth submarine is in jeopardy.

In addition to its capability of firing nuclear warheads, the submarine also has a larger cruising range because of its advanced modern fuel-cell propulsion technology.

Germany has been delivering submarines to Israel since the end of the 1990s following the first Gulf War. The first two submarines given to Israel were entirely subsidized by the German government, but those subsidies are being reduced with each additional purchase. Under the current program, the government is subsidizing one-third of the cost of the submarine.

'A Five-Year Plan on Holocaust Reparations'

In January, SPIEGEL reported on a United States diplomatic cable obtained by WikiLeaks dating back to January 2005 indicating that the partial subsidization of some submarine sales could be a backchannel diplomatic response to demands for Holocaust reparations payments made by Israel at the time.

An advisor to then-prime minister Ariel Sharon informed the United States Embassy in Tel Aviv of a "five-year plan on Holocaust-era reparations, pensions and restitution." The document cited the advisor stating that the plan envisioned the Israeli government calling for Germany to take over responsibility for restitution payments that had been ignored by East Germany in the sum of around $500 million, "possibly in the form of new German-made submarines." It was a portion of a 1953 German-Israeli reparations agreement "that had been attributed to East Germany, but never paid." A member of the working group from the prime minister's office contended "that such a GOI claim would not violate any 'closure' agreements about Holocaust-era claims because it would be based on the unfulfilled portion of a pre-existing agreement."

The timing of the demand was good because in 2005, Germany and Israel celebrated 40 years of diplomatic relations. Redress also played a role in the submarine deals at the time, sources with knowledge of it confirmed to SPIEGEL in January. Then-Chancellor Gerhard Schröder approved the deal for the submarine exports during his last days in office in November 2005.

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#11. To: Skip Intro, Murron (#9)

Is Israel Post a newspaper? Is "intire" a real word? Can you really be as dumb as you look?

She probably thought it's where one goes to mail letters in Israel.

When the people are afraid, that's when the greatest long term money is made.~~~~Clark Howard

mininggold  posted on  2011-11-01   12:57:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: war (#10)

Not to mention using "who's" for "whose"...

Pretty impressive for only two sentences. What it makes it even funnier is that it's so easy to tell when she plagiarizes something, because it doesn't read like it was written by a retarded fourth grader.

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-11-01   13:02:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Murron, mininggold (#7)

...'you', and people like you, too g-damn STUPID TO LIVE!

Ignoring your best advice, God has decided otherwise.

"You post articles- intellectual excrement, really- that support your inane, insipid mentality, on a regular basis. Capitalist Eric

lucysmom  posted on  2011-11-01   13:17:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Skip Intro (#12)

...it's so easy to tell when she plagiarizes something, because it doesn't read like it was written by a retarded fourth grader.

And the resulting meltdown when such plagiarism is pointed out is worth the price of admission here.

I'll believe that a corporation is a person 1 second after Texas executes one...

war  posted on  2011-11-01   13:46:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: lucysmom (#13)

Hilarious...

I'll believe that a corporation is a person 1 second after Texas executes one...

war  posted on  2011-11-01   13:46:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: war, lucysmom (#15)

It appears that Stone and Mammy both belong to the same religious sect, the one that believes in calling on their god to murder their opponents.

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-11-01   14:03:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Skip Intro (#16)

It appears that Stone and Mammy both belong to the same religious sect, the one that believes in calling on their god to murder their opponents.

It must be confusing for their god when the enemy belongs to the same sect.

"You post articles- intellectual excrement, really- that support your inane, insipid mentality, on a regular basis. Capitalist Eric

lucysmom  posted on  2011-11-01   14:18:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: lucysmom, mininggold, war, Skip Intro, Ferret Mike (#17)

It must be confusing for their god when the enemy belongs to the same sect.

The people of Easter Europe during wwll had their reasons for hating the jewish people and handing them over to be exterminated, it was either cooperate, or their families would suffer the same consequences.

What you people represent has nothing to do with God. Most of the people of Europe then were ignorant of the situation, or feared for their families safety, they had legitimate reasons.

You are a free and safe people, what is your excuse today for the hate you harbor?

My father saw the results of jewish hate, and it haunted him to his grave. jmho!

"OWS! Liberals! Their goal is to find a way to live within the means of the working class rich, but without the work."

Murron  posted on  2011-11-01   15:48:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: gibbering libTURD circle jerk sub herd members, Murron (#18)

Blah blah blah Blah blah blah

No worries M, these libTURD losers exist only in herds.

It cracks me up how they display their DOUBLE standard and normal HYPOCRISY by giving you grief over your grammar and punctuation while one of their main TURDS, (cornflake BOY uh weasel GURL uh faggot mike uh ferret mikey), misspells and misuses words all over the place without a word from them.

LOL!

IF you understand how junior high school girl cliques work, you understand EVERYTHING that there is to understand about the everyday useful idiot who calls themselves a libTURD.

LOL!

libTURDISM is a MENTAL DISEASE.

Spoiled, stupid and ignorant, brain dead phuckwads, libTURD fools, tools, and idiots, are the real sickness; the messiah "king" obammy and his regime are only the symptoms.

Mad Dog  posted on  2011-11-01   16:25:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Murron (#18)

Most of the people of Europe...feared for their families safety, they had legitimate reasons.

So then offering up some one else's family as a sacrifice to spare your own is a legitimate reason?

"You post articles- intellectual excrement, really- that support your inane, insipid mentality, on a regular basis. Capitalist Eric

lucysmom  posted on  2011-11-01   16:35:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Murron (#18)

I do not agree with antisemitism. I am aware of the brave fight of the Jewish people at the end of the Warsaw Ghetto and am aware the Polish people liked and supported the Holocaust -- which was the extermination of all Jewish people.

What I do not agree with is Zionism, which a sizable block of Jewish people are coming to question. I've mentioned this view to you and differentiated between antisemitism and Zionism but you seem incapable of comprehending what I am saying. Which I've come to know is par for the course with you.

You keep trying to slash and trash in my direction, that is what you will get back. If you are civil and practice a basic level of politesse, I will give it back. It's just that simple.

"Among politicians and businessmen, *Pragmatism* is the current term for "To hell with our children." -- Ed Abbey

Ferret Mike  posted on  2011-11-01   19:48:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Ferret Mike (#21)

What I do not agree with is Zionism

Couldn't have the Jews actually having a nation of their own.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-11-01   19:51:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: A K A Stone (#22)

I don't understand the point you are trying to articulate. as that is a very vague sentence. Expound on it so I can address it please.

"Among politicians and businessmen, *Pragmatism* is the current term for "To hell with our children." -- Ed Abbey

Ferret Mike  posted on  2011-11-01   19:54:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Ferret Mike (#23)

A zionist is simply a Jew who wants to live in Israel.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-11-01   19:55:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: A K A Stone (#24)

However, the execution of the policy of Zionism has resulted in oppression and a lack of equal protection under the law of Palestinian Arabs. Much of their land has been illegally seized, and a concerted effort has been made to deny them a livelihood, a good and stable future for them and their families, and this is just flat unacceptable.

People should not lose the right to live in an area they have historically lived for many generations. The Zionists have not cared to treat their neighbors well and deny them the most basic of human rights. Which makes it impossible to support this concept called Zionism.

"Among politicians and businessmen, *Pragmatism* is the current term for "To hell with our children." -- Ed Abbey

Ferret Mike  posted on  2011-11-01   20:01:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Murron (#18)

Just how medicated are you, Murron?

Seriously...you are getting scary.

I'll believe that a corporation is a person 1 second after Texas executes one...

war  posted on  2011-11-01   20:06:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Murron (#18)

You are a free and safe people, what is your excuse today for the hate you harbor?

Are you kidding? According to you we live in communist oppression under the iron rule of the Muslim usurper MoFo Obama.

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-11-01   20:11:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: A K A Stone (#24)

A zionist is simply a Jew who wants to live in Israel.

With a 500 mile "Arab Free" zone

I'll believe that a corporation is a person 1 second after Texas executes one...

war  posted on  2011-11-01   20:14:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Skip Intro (#27)

You understood that mess?

I'll believe that a corporation is a person 1 second after Texas executes one...

war  posted on  2011-11-01   20:14:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: war (#29)

I wouldn't go that far, but I do try to decipher the intricacies of Mammy-speak.

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-11-01   20:18:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Skip Intro, Murron (#27)

Are you kidding? According to you we live in communist oppression under the iron rule of the Muslim usurper MoFo Obama.

Murron is another one of those commune-ist fellow travelers. She believes that she can steal other's hard work, their intellectual property, and call it her own. And arrogantly shows not one iota of remorse or apology when called on it.

When the people are afraid, that's when the greatest long term money is made.~~~~Clark Howard

mininggold  posted on  2011-11-02   0:13:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: war (#28)

With a 500 mile "Arab Free" zone

So what.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-11-02   7:41:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: A K A Stone (#32)

Fine...then keep my tax dollars and foreign policy out of the fight.

I'll believe that a corporation is a person 1 second after Texas executes one...

war  posted on  2011-11-02   7:48:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: war (#33)

It is long overdue time to practice some common sense by cutting the aid and support of Israel.

"Among politicians and businessmen, *Pragmatism* is the current term for "To hell with our children." -- Ed Abbey

Ferret Mike  posted on  2011-11-02   8:41:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Murron (#3)

The playing ground is becoming a little more equal this time around. Paybacks a bitch, ain't it?

It won't be Germany who pays next time. Though who knows? I think Israel has what they call a "Samson Option", named of course for the biblical character who after his capture killed himself and thousands of others by destroying the structure he was restrained in. I pretty much expect that if the day comes where Israel is facing destruction at the hands of some future army, they would simply nuke any cities of any countries they felt betrayed them just out of spite.

Whatever the Germans did to the Jews, why didn't they make Germany give up a slice of their land to make a Jewish state? Why did the Arabs and others in the ME region have to give up their land for it? How would Americans feel if the PTB's of the day decided to make Delaware into the new Jewish state?

Pinguinite  posted on  2011-11-05   12:27:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: mininggold (#31) (Edited)

She believes that she can steal other's hard work, their intellectual property, and call it her own. And arrogantly shows not one iota of remorse or apology when called on it.

She also approves of Israel stealing other peoples land, as does Stonehead.

"our blacks are so much better than their blacks" - (M)ann Coulter

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-11-05   12:31:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Pinguinite (#35)

Why did the Arabs and others in the ME region have to give up their land for it? How would Americans feel if the PTB's of the day decided to make Delaware into the new Jewish state?

That presupposes Arabs have feeling just like other human beings.

Wall Street owns the country…Our laws are the output of a system which clothes rascals in robes and honesty in rags. The [political] parties lie to us and the political speakers mislead us…Money rules. Mary Elizabeth Lease, 1890

lucysmom  posted on  2011-11-05   12:34:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Pinguinite (#35)

How would Americans feel if the PTB's of the day decided to make Delaware into the new Jewish state?

Hopefully they won't demand a 500 mile red neck free zone.

"ROTFLMAO... Perfect! She longs... for someone to Teabag her. a man that squats on top of a women's face and lowers his genitals into her mouth during sex, known as "teabagging" She aches for it"... ~~~JWpegler. Head Tea Bagger and Tea Party supporter extraordinaire, explicitly expressing his fantasies in public about other posters.

mininggold  posted on  2011-11-05   12:56:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Pinguinite (#35)

"Why did the Arabs and others in the ME region have to give up their land for it? How would Americans feel if the PTB's of the day decided to make Delaware into the new Jewish state?"

The present inhabitants of the Jewish state maintain an ancient, ancestral connection to their modern homeland. A Jewish nation flourished on the territory of today’s Israel for more than a thousand years prior to mass exiles by the Roman occupiers. The pioneers of the Zionist movement felt that they were coming home, speaking the same Hebrew language that their forebears spoke, rebuilding the cities and towns that had been part of the people’s history for millennia.

When settlers arrived in North America, however, none of them suggested that they were reconnecting with some forgotten homeland, or re-establishing a national presence on the sacred soil of long-ago ancestors. They claimed America as their inheritance because they chose to live there, and toiled tirelessly and courageously to establish a beautiful society on a promising but underpopulated continent.

Long before Israelis defended themselves against invading Arab armies in their war of independence, leading international organizations recognized the right of Jews to settle there and establish a new nation. The British Empire authorized a “Jewish National Home” in today’s Israel in 1917, followed by the League of Nations, in 1923, and finally the United Nations, in 1948, with near- universal recognition of the new state.

America-haters and Israel-haters, almost always the same people, regularly denounce both nations for building their prosperity and power on genocidal crimes against indigenous inhabitants of their territory. It’s not true in either case, but in the United States the arrival of European settlers did result in an undeniable reduction in native populations, from an estimate of 3 million Native Americans when the British first arrived to less than 250,000 by 1900. (The numbers have rebounded sharply in the last century.)

By contrast, the Palestinian population never declined during the period of Jewish resettlement of the ancestral homeland; since Israeli independence, the Palestinian Arab population between the Jordan River and the sea, including Israel proper and all areas claimed by the Palestinian Authority, increased by nearly 500 percent. Even in the decade of the celebrated Palestinian refugees, 1941–50, internationally recognized population figures show a slight increase in Palestinian population in the area, from 1,111,398 to 1,172,100.

Without a historic connection to the land or endorsement by world organizations— and with the unmistakable, drastic decline of indigenous peoples as the result of American nation building—how can the United States possibly justify its right to exist?

The answer is easy, on the Fourth of July or any other occasion, as our forebears built a great nation from the ground up, then defended it with valor and determination through almost incessant warfare, and somehow managed to forge a new identity and vibrant culture in the process, assimilating idealistic immigrants from around the world.

To an amazing extent, Israelis have accomplished the same feats in a shorter time, creating a complex, dynamic society barely envisioned when resettlement began in 1880s, and even reviving an ancient and distinctive language that hadn’t been used in daily conversation for at least two millennia.

The three-dimensional actuality of its flourishing cities (with the metropolis Tel Aviv founded on desolate sand dunes in 1909), great universities, reforested hillsides, network of national parks, superhighways, and high-tech research centers, the idea of questioning the nation’s existence seems every bit as unthinkable as challenging the reality of the United States.

SOURCE

"OWS! Liberals! Their goal is to find a way to live within the means of the working class rich, but without the work."

Murron  posted on  2011-11-05   14:48:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Skip Intro, minginggold, A K A Stone (#36)

minginggold: "She believes that she can steal other's hard work, their intellectual property, and call it her own. And arrogantly shows not one iota of remorse or apology when called on it."

Skip Intro: "She also approves of Israel stealing other peoples land, as does Stonehead."

Ping to #39. If either of you cannot give a legitimate and sane answer to that post, then you both will have proven you do not have any intellectual intelligence beyond that of group think, and cannot rise above personal attacks and prefer to remain STUPID!

Prove me wrong~

"OWS! Liberals! Their goal is to find a way to live within the means of the working class rich, but without the work."

Murron  posted on  2011-11-05   15:08:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: Murron (#40)

Your post 39 does it for me.

"our blacks are so much better than their blacks" - (M)ann Coulter

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-11-05   15:12:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: Skip Intro, Murron (#41) (Edited)

Your post 39 does it for me.

Had she originally had the gonads to attribute it to Micheal Medved rather than link to the source, I wouldn't have bothered with the apples to oranges rant. But Murron does at least admit genocide is involved and since it's admitted it must be intentional.

"ROTFLMAO... Perfect! She longs... for someone to Teabag her. a man that squats on top of a women's face and lowers his genitals into her mouth during sex, known as "teabagging" She aches for it"... ~~~JWpegler. Head Tea Bagger and Tea Party supporter extraordinaire, explicitly expressing his fantasies in public about other posters.

mininggold  posted on  2011-11-05   15:45:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: Murron (#39)

Your source is simply a commentator giving an opinion.

I also had ancestors inhabiting places on earth 3000 years ago. Does that give me the right to go back to those areas and kick out whomever might have ancestors going back only 2000, 200, or 20 years ago?

If you believe this, do you also believe in returning North America to the native Indians?

Where do you draw the line? Or are today's "Israelis" really special people above and beyond the rest of humanity?

Pinguinite  posted on  2011-11-05   15:58:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: Pinguinite (#43) (Edited)

Or are today's "Israelis" really special people above and beyond the rest of humanity?

I beleive in this comparsion with all my heart, and I could ask you the same question about Europeans who conquered this land, and I do.

What is your true reason for your hate of the jewish nation, what have they ever done to you personally?

Israel is our ONLY ally in the ME, do you expect that if the jews were somehow eliminated, or uprooted and run off, that the islamic savages who are left will somehow suddenly become your best friends?

"OWS! Liberals! Their goal is to find a way to live within the means of the working class rich, but without the work."

Murron  posted on  2011-11-05   16:31:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: Murron (#44)

Israel is our ONLY ally in the ME

You mean Iraq doesn't love us? What about Saudi Arabia? What about Egypt?

We sure seem to love them, seeing how much money we give them every single year.

"our blacks are so much better than their blacks" - (M)ann Coulter

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-11-05   16:55:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: Skip Intro (#45)

You mean Iraq doesn't love us? What about Saudi Arabia? What about Egypt?

We sure seem to love them, seeing how much money we give them every single year.

No they do not Skip, as for the money, you have our leaders to thank for throwing our money away this way. No amount of extortion money they pay will save this nation from their hate of anyoone who is not a believe of allah. They're attention right now is on Israel, once taken care of, we will be next.

"OWS! Liberals! Their goal is to find a way to live within the means of the working class rich, but without the work."

Murron  posted on  2011-11-05   17:00:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: Murron (#46)

Saudi Arabia already took care of us on 9/11. We still love them. In fact we love them so much that we allowed the relatives of the alleged perp to fly out of the US when everyone else was grounded.

"our blacks are so much better than their blacks" - (M)ann Coulter

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-11-05   17:08:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: Skip Intro (#47)

Saudi Arabia already took care of us on 9/11. We still love them. In fact we love them so much that we allowed the relatives of the alleged perp to fly out of the US when everyone else was grounded.

I remember....

"OWS! Liberals! Their goal is to find a way to live within the means of the working class rich, but without the work."

Murron  posted on  2011-11-05   17:10:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Pinguinite (#43)

I also had ancestors inhabiting places on earth 3000 years ago. Does that give me the right to go back to those areas and kick out whomever might have ancestors going back only 2000, 200, or 20 years ago?

All countries are ruled by the current band of occupiers. The country remains theirs as long as they can hold on to it.

There is no divine right of occupation; there is no right of occupation at all. It all depends on who has the strength to throw the other guy(s) out.

The US is going through this right now, just as Mexico and Spain, Britain and France did here in the past. It's the natural order of things.

The problem with Israel is that its actions can affect us all, just like a minor incident in the damned Balkans led to WWI and then to WWII. Personally, I don't want to see the world set on fire because of the actions of an insignificant state.

"our blacks are so much better than their blacks" - (M)ann Coulter

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-11-05   17:24:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: Murron (#44)

What is your true reason for your hate of the jewish nation, what have they ever done to you personally?

Hate them? I guess everyone who criticizes Israel automatically *hates* the "jewish nation", is that it?

The heavy criticism I have is that they bomb and kill innocent men, women and children. They take their land. They lobby Washington so hard that they can openly campaign for the release of a man who spied for them against the USA (no doubt in part to give assurances to current spies that should they be caught that Israel will do it's best to give them a big welcome and free citizenship in Israel), get 3 billion dollars a year in free money, much of which snakes back into campaign contributions for those who favor the country, (which is why they get so much alliances in Congress). As a US citizen, I would think that would be sufficient grounds to be "personally" affected by them.

It is very unfortunate that the Jewish faith pretty much teaches that gentiles exist to serve them. Goldi on LP told me herself long ago that Jews were not allowed to charge other Jews interest on loans. Now if whites did that, it would be considered racist, but when Jews do it, it's okay. So many christians in the US adhere to this idea that the Jews are the "chosen people", and it's very unfortunate as it enables those Jews who also believe it to disregard the rights of the rest of the world. Many Jews are not zionists and don't believe Israel should exist as a political entity. Those are the Jews I agree with.

Israel is our ONLY ally in the ME, do you expect that if the jews were somehow eliminated, or uprooted and run off, that the islamic savages who are left will somehow suddenly become your best friends?

If Israel was truly an ally of the US, then they would not be spying on the US. But again, Israel believes that the USA exists to serve them so they can operate to that end without being inhibited by conscience. So to the contrary, The US is the only ally of Israel, and if it weren't, we'd have a lot more friends in the ME since there would be much less cause for them to hate us as much as we do. Let's be clear. We don't need Israel for squat. If it disappeared overnight, there would be zero economic impact on the USA. We would still be importing and exporting all the same stuff. Our relations with the other ME countries would actually improve. I challenge anyone who thinks otherwise to give one example of how their disappearance would adversely affect the USA. No, we don't need Israel. Israel needs the USA.

I honestly believe that Israel may well be the biggest disaster the US has endured in the 2nd half of the 20th century.

Pinguinite  posted on  2011-11-05   18:12:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: Pinguinite (#50) (Edited)

"I honestly believe that Israel may well be the biggest disaster the US has endured in the 2nd half of the 20th century."

Israel is a literal and figurative bulwark against a cross continental Arab- Muslim empire. It inhibits pan-totalitarianism in the forms of Arab nationalism and Islamic fundamentalism.

America faces a current crisis of diminished credibility in the face of its enemies. America pulled out of Lebanon, pulled out of Mogadishu, responded weakly to embassy bombings in 1998, and did not respond at all to the USS Cole attack. By promoting the significance of Israel through aid and defense, the US markets an identity that it will fight back to its enemies in the Arab-Muslim world. This premise was also behind the war in Iraq. From this standpoint, the war has been a success.

Israel is significant because it will contribute to the growth of a democratized Palestinian state. With pressure exerted from both democracies, Israel and America, Abbas and the PA will be expected to bring an end to violence by reining in and quashing terrorists. More democracy in the region will contribute to the overall goal of regional stability and mark a great victory for the west in its war against Islamic fundamentalism.

It is also important to consider the large debate currently going on in political and academic circles over what to call the last four years of war between Israel and the Palestinians. Some argue it should be the Oslo War while others say it should be the war against the occupation. In reality, the last four years of war between Israel and the Palestinians has in effect been the clash of civilizations.

Israel has defended the West against its enemies. This marks the true significance of Israel and why American and western support for Israel is so important.

SOURCE

**************************

These are not my words, but they speak for me and what I think, I have never been very good at enunciating how I feel, maybe you will understand this better than anything I could post.

And another thing, I also believe the Jews are God's chosen, they may have been cursed by Him at one time, but there will come a day when he has forgiven them and He will help to destroy anyone who attacks His people, and Bless those who defend them. I cannot help you if you do not believe this, that is your choice, we all have a Free Will. jmho!

PS: Sally/Goldi does not, nor will she ever, speak for me, and I don't think the little knowledge she's found about herself gives her the right to speak for ALL jews, especially the jewish people who live in our area, they DO PAY INTEREST ON THEIR LOANS. She really should choose an individual or group she knows, then tell her story, her brush is broad, jews as people are not much different than any other people, you have your good, and you have your bad.

"OWS! Liberals! Their goal is to find a way to live within the means of the working class rich, but without the work."

Murron  posted on  2011-11-05   18:33:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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