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Corrupt Government
See other Corrupt Government Articles

Title: Secret panel can put Americans on "kill list'
Source: Reuters
URL Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011 ... killlist-idUSTRE79475C20111005
Published: Oct 6, 2011
Author: Mark Hosenball
Post Date: 2011-10-06 12:16:04 by A K A Stone
Keywords: None
Views: 56603
Comments: 91

(Reuters) - American militants like Anwar al-Awlaki are placed on a kill or capture list by a secretive panel of senior government officials, which then informs the president of its decisions, according to officials.

There is no public record of the operations or decisions of the panel, which is a subset of the White House's National Security Council, several current and former officials said. Neither is there any law establishing its existence or setting out the rules by which it is supposed to operate.

The panel was behind the decision to add Awlaki, a U.S.-born militant preacher with alleged al Qaeda connections, to the target list. He was killed by a CIA drone strike in Yemen late last month.

The role of the president in ordering or ratifying a decision to target a citizen is fuzzy. White House spokesman Tommy Vietor declined to discuss anything about the process.

Current and former officials said that to the best of their knowledge, Awlaki, who the White House said was a key figure in al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, al Qaeda's Yemen-based affiliate, had been the only American put on a government list targeting people for capture or death due to their alleged involvement with militants.

The White House is portraying the killing of Awlaki as a demonstration of President Barack Obama's toughness toward militants who threaten the United States. But the process that led to Awlaki's killing has drawn fierce criticism from both the political left and right.

In an ironic turn, Obama, who ran for president denouncing predecessor George W. Bush's expansive use of executive power in his "war on terrorism," is being attacked in some quarters for using similar tactics. They include secret legal justifications and undisclosed intelligence assessments.

Liberals criticized the drone attack on an American citizen as extra-judicial murder.

Conservatives criticized Obama for refusing to release a Justice Department legal opinion that reportedly justified killing Awlaki. They accuse Obama of hypocrisy, noting his administration insisted on publishing Bush-era administration legal memos justifying the use of interrogation techniques many equate with torture, but refused to make public its rationale for killing a citizen without due process.

Some details about how the administration went about targeting Awlaki emerged on Tuesday when the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, Representative Dutch Ruppersberger, was asked by reporters about the killing.

The process involves "going through the National Security Council, then it eventually goes to the president, but the National Security Council does the investigation, they have lawyers, they review, they look at the situation, you have input from the military, and also, we make sure that we follow international law," Ruppersberger said.

LAWYERS CONSULTED

Other officials said the role of the president in the process was murkier than what Ruppersberger described.

They said targeting recommendations are drawn up by a committee of mid-level National Security Council and agency officials. Their recommendations are then sent to the panel of NSC "principals," meaning Cabinet secretaries and intelligence unit chiefs, for approval. The panel of principals could have different memberships when considering different operational issues, they said.

The officials insisted on anonymity to discuss sensitive information.

They confirmed that lawyers, including those in the Justice Department, were consulted before Awlaki's name was added to the target list.

Two principal legal theories were advanced, an official said: first, that the actions were permitted by Congress when it authorized the use of military forces against militants in the wake of the attacks of September 11, 2001; and they are permitted under international law if a country is defending itself.

Several officials said that when Awlaki became the first American put on the target list, Obama was not required personally to approve the targeting of a person. But one official said Obama would be notified of the principals' decision. If he objected, the decision would be nullified, the official said.

A former official said one of the reasons for making senior officials principally responsible for nominating Americans for the target list was to "protect" the president.

Officials confirmed that a second American, Samir Khan, was killed in the drone attack that killed Awlaki. Khan had served as editor of Inspire, a glossy English-language magazine used by AQAP as a propaganda and recruitment vehicle.

But rather than being specifically targeted by drone operators, Khan was in the wrong place at the wrong time, officials said. Ruppersberger appeared to confirm that, saying Khan's death was "collateral," meaning he was not an intentional target of the drone strike.

When the name of a foreign, rather than American, militant is added to targeting lists, the decision is made within the intelligence community and normally does not require approval by high-level NSC officials.

'FROM INSPIRATIONAL TO OPERATIONAL'

Officials said Awlaki, whose fierce sermons were widely circulated on English-language militant websites, was targeted because Washington accumulated information his role in AQAP had gone "from inspirational to operational." That meant that instead of just propagandizing in favor of al Qaeda objectives, Awlaki allegedly began to participate directly in plots against American targets.

"Let me underscore, Awlaki is no mere messenger but someone integrally involved in lethal terrorist activities," Daniel Benjamin, top counterterrorism official at the State Department, warned last spring.

The Obama administration has not made public an accounting of the classified evidence that Awlaki was operationally involved in planning terrorist attacks.

But officials acknowledged that some of the intelligence purporting to show Awlaki's hands-on role in plotting attacks was patchy.

For instance, one plot in which authorities have said Awlaki was involved Nigerian-born Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, accused of trying to blow up a Detroit-bound U.S. airliner on Christmas Day 2009 with a bomb hidden in his underpants.

There is no doubt Abdulmutallab was an admirer or follower of Awlaki, since he admitted that to U.S. investigators. When he appeared in a Detroit courtroom earlier this week for the start of his trial on bomb-plot charges, he proclaimed, "Anwar is alive."

But at the time the White House was considering putting Awlaki on the U.S. target list, intelligence connecting Awlaki specifically to Abdulmutallab and his alleged bomb plot was partial. Officials said at the time the United States had voice intercepts involving a phone known to have been used by Awlaki and someone who they believed, but were not positive, was Abdulmutallab.

Awlaki was also implicated in a case in which a British Airways employee was imprisoned for plotting to blow up a U.S.-bound plane. E-mails retrieved by authorities from the employee's computer showed what an investigator described as " operational contact" between Britain and Yemen.

Authorities believe the contacts were mainly between the U.K.-based suspect and his brother. But there was a strong suspicion Awlaki was at the brother's side when the messages were dispatched. British media reported that in one message, the person on the Yemeni end supposedly said, "Our highest priority is the US ... With the people you have, is it possible to get a package or a person with a package on board a flight heading to the US?"

U.S. officials contrast intelligence suggesting Awlaki's involvement in specific plots with the activities of Adam Gadahn, an American citizen who became a principal English-language propagandist for the core al Qaeda network formerly led by Osama bin Laden.

While Gadahn appeared in angry videos calling for attacks on the United States, officials said he had not been specifically targeted for capture or killing by U.S. forces because he was regarded as a loudmouth not directly involved in plotting attacks.


Poster Comment:

Who are these people. Someone get their names and we will make our own little list.

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#44. To: nolu chan (#42)

If this were lawful, how many people could be put on the secret kill list? Where does the authority end?

The authority "ends" where the military value of the target or the military advantage gained by the killing has no significant measurement.

Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs

war  posted on  2011-10-07   9:17:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: war (#40)
(Edited)

You're too hung up on hating those niggers who hate America to care.

Do this mean you justify Holder and 0bama's hostility and assault of Whitey as "reparation" for slavery? Or "justification" is ANY legit sense?

God knows how the US has been staving off all those "right wing" threats to the WTC and the Pentagon and DC Snipers and Ft. Hood slaughters from within all those right-wing Mosques....right, DUMMY? Uh...Never mind.

Or FBI buildings...or abortion clinics...or abortion providers...or...Oh...wait...

"Wait" for what? You to make a LEGIT point? LOL! You've cited McVeigh as an example of "right wing"?? Bwaaahaa! CLUE-LESS. And as though THAT example dovetails with 9/11? OR even the original Muslim take-down of the WTC back in 1993?

And then you have the balls to cite your desperate examples of "right wing terrorism" because of an anomalous assault of a professional baby killer to supposedly counter-balance the DC Sniper terrorism and murders after 9/11, AND the 50-odd shootings at Ft. Hood by a Muslim "Captain"? Not the mention the Muzzie member of the US Army who rolled a grenade into a tent in Iraq?

Read it and weep: FAIL, war.

The REAL Terrorists remain Muslims, yet you, Nappy, 0bama and Holder put Whitey of the fake "terrorist" list. Some of us know who the real "terrorists" are.

"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama

Liberator  posted on  2011-10-07   10:49:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: Liberator (#45)

Do this mean you justify Holder and 0bama's hostility and assault of Whitey as "reparation" for slavery?

Generally, given their particular racial demographic, that is hardly a unique position.

That said, the only public position that Obama has taken on reparations is to oppose them:

SPRINGFIELD, Ill. — Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama opposes offering reparations to the descendants of slaves, putting him at odds with some black groups and leaders.

The man with a serious chance to become the nation's first black president argues that government should instead combat the legacy of slavery by improving schools, health care and the economy for all.

"I have said in the past _ and I'll repeat again _ that the best reparations we can provide are good schools in the inner city and jobs for people who are unemployed," the Illinois Democrat said recently.

As for Holder, he's entitled to his opinion. He's in no position to affect them. Again, that said, I've neother heard nor read any opinion of Holder's that could be characterized as support for them.

Do you have any contrary information that would support your above statement? Ot is it you and that "nigger" hang-up thing that you have again..."They "be" black so they "be" for."?

Wait" for what? You to make a LEGIT point? LOL! You've cited McVeigh as an example of "right wing"?? Bwaaahaa! CLUE-LESS. And as though THAT example dovetails with 9/11? OR even the original Muslim take-down of the WTC back in 1993?

First off, there is no such thing as "left wing" religious fanaticism. Secondly, YOU made the claim that ALL violence was left wing in nature. McVeigh was hardly a left winger. The people responsible for violence against abortion clinics and providers are hardly left wingers.

Don't blame me for your reality issues.

Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs

war  posted on  2011-10-07   11:11:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: war (#46)

0bama's anomalous and purely political words of supposed opposition to reparations contradict his deeds and that of his administration.

Generally, given their [Holder and 0bama] particular racial demographic, that [reparations] is hardly a unique position.

Well, at least now we have an admission of the truth.

Too bad reparations is a VIOLATION of civil rights of Whitey and UN-constitutional NOR has it been legislated through We The People. Oddly enough, that hasn't stopped the goob from enforcing it as we have noted by unequal application of the law though Affirmative Action, quotas, and illegal "hate crimes" legislation. And then we have the black farmers recently receiving billions of dollars for something that happened to others BY others 150 years ago?

The truth of the matter is the black Chief Executive of the US and his black Attorney General are blatantly encouraging and undermining several civil rights laws and abusing the rights of White America with impunity.

"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama

Liberator  posted on  2011-10-07   11:42:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: war (#46)

As for Holder, he's entitled to his opinion.

NOT when that opinion becomes policy.

Do you have any contrary information that would support your above statement? Ot is it you and that "nigger" hang-up thing that you have again..."They "be" black so they "be" for."?

You mean you have NO idea Holder hates Whitey? You mean you never heard him refer to the indicted Black Panthers as "my people"? Or refer to white people a "cowards" on the issue of race (yeah, ironically)?

War, I can't make you take off your blinders.

"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama

Liberator  posted on  2011-10-07   11:46:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: war (#46) (Edited)

First off, there is no such thing as "left wing" religious fanaticism.

Sure there is; Statist Worship IS "religious fanaticism." But it is a bi-partisan cult as both you and yukon prove every day.

Secondly, YOU made the claim that ALL violence was left wing in nature. McVeigh was hardly a left winger. The people responsible for violence against abortion clinics and providers are hardly left wingers.

All? Ok, only 95% of the violence is left-wing. McVeigh was NOT "right-wing"; He was an anarchist and reportedly a tool of Muslim extremists (that's right - the OKC "investigation" was sloppy, suspect and bogus.)

The extermination of baby-killers and the eradication of their murder clinics is not remotely the security problem organized Muslim terrorism is. Don't try to draw an equivalent in any sense - it doesn't work.

"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama

Liberator  posted on  2011-10-07   11:55:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: Liberator (#47)

0bama's anomalous and purely political words of supposed opposition to reparations contradict his deeds and that of his administration.

Feel free to cite the numerous examples required to vaildate the above statement.

Thanks.

Too bad reparations is [sic] a VIOLATION of civil rights of Whitey [sic] and UN-constitutional

I agree. There is a proscription on Bill of Attainders and Forfeiture of Blood.

NOR has it been legislated through We The People.

Um...okay...and?

and illegal "hate crimes" legislation.

"Hate crimes" statutes are not "illegal". There is no legal estoppel to passing such laws.

And then we have the black farmers recently receiving billions of dollars for something that happened to others BY others 150 years ago?

Uh...no...a) those claims are contemporary to the late 20th and early 21st century b) it wasn't "billions" it was $1.25 billion and c) included American aboriginals.

The truth of the matter is the black Chief Executive of the US and his black Attorney General are blatantly encouraging and undermining several civil rights laws and abusing the rights of White America with impunity.

Goddam those mortherfucking niggers, anyway...

Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs

war  posted on  2011-10-07   11:55:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: Liberator (#49) (Edited)

Sure there is; Statist Worship IS "religious fanaticism." But it is a bi-partisan cult as both you and yukon prove every day.

The English language works quite well on its own. It doesn't need your political and racially based distortions.

Thanks,
Noah Webster

All? Ok, only 95% of the violence is left-wing.

Bullshit.

McVeigh was NOT "right-wing"; He was an anarchist and reportedly a tool of Muslim extremists (that's right - the OKC "investigation" was sloppy, suspect and bogus.)

A) Bullshit that he wasn;t right wing.
B) As was pointed out, religious extremism is inherently right wing in nature.

The extermination of baby-killers and the eradication of their murder clinics is not remotely the security problem Muslim terrorism is. Don't try to draw an equivalent in any sense - it doesn't work.

It's in in the quantity of death not the death itself.

Got it.

Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs

war  posted on  2011-10-07   11:59:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: Liberator (#48)

NOT when that opinion becomes policy.

Show me where the current policy of the Department of Justice of the United States of America is that the descendants of slaves should be paid reparations for the ancestors' slavery.

Thanks.

Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs

war  posted on  2011-10-07   12:00:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: Liberator (#48)

Or refer to white people a "cowards" on the issue of race

We are...and you've provided plenty example of it on this thread alone.

Blacks are among us Libby. Time you got used to it.

Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs

war  posted on  2011-10-07   12:01:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: war, Liberator (#53)

We are...and you've provided plenty example of it on this thread alone.

Blacks are among us Libby. Time you got used to it.

Since Libby loves those pissing matches, I would wager most blacks have a majority of their ancestors that were in this hemisphere waaaaaaay before most of Libby's were.

mininggold  posted on  2011-10-07   12:07:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: war (#50)

Feel free to cite the numerous examples required to vaildate the above statement.

Thanks.

If you're gonna play dopey, it does work, but I just don't give a sh*t, Counselour. My statement is "validated" every single frickin' day by your racist mofo hero's words and actions - not that I expect you to admit this to be the case. And then there are his words admitted in his Kenyan version of 'Mein Kampf' books authored by his pal, by Bill Ayers.

As a liberal/progressive, should legal discrimination - AA programs, set-asides and quotas - be scrapped? And what of the select enforcement of the law as per "hate crimes"? Exactly how does IT confer "equal protection" under the law?

With respect to that $1.25 BILLION dollars to black farmers (and a few Indians ALREADY receiving reparations through casino ownership, "nation" subsidies, etc....WHY again is it legal to shake-down 5th gen Whitey?

Goddam those mortherfucking niggers, anyway...

You spelled "motherf*cker" wrong. BOO!

"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama

Liberator  posted on  2011-10-07   12:11:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: Liberator (#55)

If you're gonna play dopey, it does work, but I just don't give a sh*t, Counselour. My statement is "validated" every single frickin' day by your racist mofo hero's words and actions - not that I expect you to admit this to be the case. And then there are his words admitted in his Kenyan version of 'Mein Kampf' books authored by his pal, by Bill Ayers.

Translated: I really don't have any examples...I just like to rant on about niggers.

With respect to that $1.25 BILLION dollars to black farmers (and a few Indians ALREADY receiving reparations through casino ownership, "nation" subsidies, etc....WHY again is it legal to shake-down 5th gen Whitey?

The claims derive from 1980's and 1990's Ag Department loan guarantees that were denied to black farmers on the basis of race.

Now, if you believe that we are 5 generations removed from 1980...

Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs

war  posted on  2011-10-07   12:15:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: mininggold (#54)

Since Libby loves those pissing matches....

Uh, excuse me; WHAT is it with your recent obsession with urine??

I would wager most blacks have a majority of their ancestors that were in this hemisphere waaaaaaay before most of Libby's were.

That is relevant WHY exactly, Urine Queen?

My ancestors were building grand cities and constructing hot tubs at the time of Christ. Meanwhile, yours were at the time still bathing in the same mud-hole they peed in. Hence your current genetic obsession.

"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama

Liberator  posted on  2011-10-07   12:17:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: Liberator (#57)

My ancestors were building grand cities and constructing hot tubs at the time of Christ.

You're from the Far East?

Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs

war  posted on  2011-10-07   12:21:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: war (#56)

Translated: I really don't have any examples...

Re-translated: "Since I worship at the Altar of My 0bama-god (see my tagline and unsigned idol photo), I will shut my eyes, close my ears, and cover my yapper cuz I am blind, deaf and dumb with respect to the sins of my...hero/idol/god."

The claims derive from 1980's and 1990's Ag Department loan guarantees that were denied to black farmers on the basis of race.

And "reparations" and Holder's/0bama's racist regime aren't part of that cozy equation?

Geez....LOL. I didn't receive a college scholarship or job or a couple of loans based on MY race (too white) - where is MY portion of that $1,250,000,000??

"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama

Liberator  posted on  2011-10-07   12:24:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: war (#58)

You're from the Far East?

Lol, chyeah - historical Chinese technological advancements and accomplishments compare with the Roman Empire? That is IF you believe the anti-Euro history revisionists of Leftist academia. And you do.

This isn't even an arguable point (though we know you'll do your best.)

"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama

Liberator  posted on  2011-10-07   12:29:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: war (#53)

Blacks are among us Libby. Time you got used to it.

It doesn't mean they need to remain on your socialist Dim plantation....does it?

Btw - get used to blacks LEAVING the plantation without calling them "Uncle Tom."

"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama

Liberator  posted on  2011-10-07   12:31:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: Liberator (#59)

Re-translated: "Since I worship at the Altar of My 0bama-god (see my tagline and unsigned idol photo), I will shut my eyes, close my ears, and cover my yapper cuz I am blind, deaf and dumb with respect to the sins of my...hero/idol/god."

See my note above and your efforts to "improve" upon the English language. The fact is, I don't put up with your bullshit that is rooted in your hatred for the man's skin. Your response is to cover up your embarrasment by lashing out with nonsense typical of the above.

And "reparations" and Holder's/0bama's racist regime aren't part of that cozy equation?

The lawsuit pre-dates them taking office, moron, and was close to settlement when DumbDub$43 left office. If you'd get them "goddam niggers" off of what's left of your what wasn't a very big brain to begin with then you'd know this.

I'm done giving you reason to perpetuate your "I hate niggers" campaign, Libby. If you want to discuss your race based frustrations...4um is always looking for traffic.

You give me a "whitey" and other such race nonsense in each and every one of your replies. It's old and now over. If you want to discuss issues...leave race out of it. If you can't...see ya...

Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs

war  posted on  2011-10-07   12:35:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: war (#51)

Just because you, Bubba, the leftist media, and the rest of the Church of Goob propagandists described McVeigh as a "right-winger" for political theater doesn't make it true.

Oh...McVeigh was an atheist. Like YOU. "NOT a "Christian" as you propagandists tried to foist upon the pods. And fancy that atheists weren't tabbed "terrorists. Oh, and again, McVeigh above all else was an anarchist.

Moreover, it is duly noted that you are unable to support your bogus claim that there is ANY equivalent between your cited example of "terrorists" (abortion clinic extermination), and mine (stated, organized Muslim mass murder and systemic terrorism."

"It's in in the quantity of death not the death itself" you say? So 1 = 1000 to you? GOT IT. Nice moral equivocation.

"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama

Liberator  posted on  2011-10-07   12:41:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: Liberator (#57)

My ancestors were building grand cities and constructing hot tubs at the time of Christ. Meanwhile, yours were at the time still bathing in the same mud-hole they peed in. Hence your current genetic obsession.

So it was your ancestors' descendants who voted for Mussolini! LOL

mininggold  posted on  2011-10-07   12:42:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: Liberator (#63)

Just because you, Bubba, the leftist media, and the rest of the Church of Goob propagandists described McVeigh as a "right-winger" for political theater doesn't make it true.

Please Libby...this is a Boofer argument. McVeigh was a right winger. Period. Accept it and move on.

Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs

war  posted on  2011-10-07   12:47:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: All (#65)

Oh...McVeigh was an atheist.

Unitarian. He believed in A GOD...not THE God...

Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs

war  posted on  2011-10-07   12:47:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: war (#62)

You give me a "whitey" and other such race nonsense in each and every one of your replies. It's old and now over. If you want to discuss issues...leave race out of it. If you can't...see ya...

Libby's EYEtalian and you know what the rest of Europe says about those Sicilians' racial heritage.

mininggold  posted on  2011-10-07   12:48:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: war (#62)

I don't put up with your bullshit that is rooted in your hatred for the man's skin.

My hatred is rooted in noting and rejecting the treason, lies, and sowing of dissension, enmity, and division of your Commie/fascist racist god, 0bama that are destroying my country. But nice try on your part.

The [black farmers reparations] lawsuit pre-dates them [0bama and Holder] taking office, moron, and was close to settlement when DumbDub$43 left office.

So you say...

I suppose you're going to claim 0bama and Holder had absolutely NO influence in this ridiculous decision, the final ridiculous amount, and fast tracking of this ridiculously racist case.

Lending money to deadbeats and the unqualified isn't necessarily about race; However, to your ilk it's all that matters and a PRIME reason this country is bankrupt. In your defense, uber-statist Dubya Bush did he part in handing out ill-advised loans and helping destroy the economy.

I'm done giving you reason to perpetuate your "I hate niggers" campaign, Libby. If you want to discuss your race based frustrations...4um is always looking for traffic.

Nice meme. Just maybe the real story is "Your racist/Marxist hero 0bama sucks, hates Whitey, is a traitor, and he's f**ked up the country but good." NOT that you GAS either way as a fellow Commie. What's important to you is shilling FOR 0bama and his/your political/religious Cult.

"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama

Liberator  posted on  2011-10-07   12:56:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: mininggold (#67)

Libby's EYEtalian and you know what the rest of Europe says about those Sicilians' racial heritage.

Oh, go on and say it.

"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama

Liberator  posted on  2011-10-07   12:57:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: war (#66)

Unitarian. He [McVeigh] believed in A GOD...not THE God...

McVeigh's "god" was himself. That would make him more a new ager.

"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama

Liberator  posted on  2011-10-07   12:59:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: war (#65)

Please Libby...this is a Boofer argument. McVeigh was a right winger. Period. Accept it and move on.

LOL....Keep on telling yourself that. Afterall, you believe everything else the media and the Church of Goob command of you (Some rebel YOU are....NOT.)

"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama

Liberator  posted on  2011-10-07   13:01:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: war (#66) (Edited)

Unitarian. He believed in A GOD...not THE God...

I have trouble keeping track of all the different gods. Which one is "The" god? Is it the one who protects Mormons when they wear their magic underwear? Is it Stone's god who condems everyone Stone doesn't agree with?

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-10-07   13:09:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: Liberator (#71)

LOL....Keep on telling yourself that. Afterall, you believe everything else the media and the Church of Goob command of you (Some rebel YOU are....NOT.)

You need to keep asking yourself...."Does god understand my code talk"?

mininggold  posted on  2011-10-07   13:11:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: mininggold (#73)

I threw in the towel and put him on bozo. I had forgotten that Libby is best in small doses. After, two or three songs his needle sticks.

Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs

war  posted on  2011-10-07   13:12:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: Skip Intro (#72)

Which one is "The" god?

The one I don't know and don't care if HE exists...

Hope that helped...

Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs

war  posted on  2011-10-07   13:13:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: mininggold (#73)

You need to keep asking yourself...."Does god understand my code talk"?

Is that your Tony Robbins advice for the day?

"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama

Liberator  posted on  2011-10-07   13:14:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: war (#75)

The one I don't know and don't care if HE exists...

Hope that helped...

I think there are at least 300 million different "The" gods in this country alone.

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-10-07   13:16:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: war (#74)

I threw in the towel and put him on bozo.

Your effort was commendable, but we both realize it's impossible to defend the indefensible.

"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama

Liberator  posted on  2011-10-07   13:17:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: Liberator, war (#78)

Your effort was commendable, but we both realize it's impossible to defend the indefensible.

You ARE like a stuck needle. The so called novelty of your terminology, heard over and over and over again, wears thin..... like most of your obsessions.

mininggold  posted on  2011-10-07   13:27:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: Skip Intro (#77)

Hey Pal...the God that I don't care about is the one and only TRUE GOD to not care about!!!!

Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs

war  posted on  2011-10-07   13:34:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: war (#44)

If this were lawful, how many people could be put on the secret kill list? Where does the authority end?

The authority "ends" where the military value of the target or the military advantage gained by the killing has no significant measurement.

Who is empowered to decide when the military value to a target or military advantage gained by a killing has significant measurement? A secret star chamber? If they decide that Iran is a threat, and they put the entire population of Iran on a kill list, asserting there to be a military value or advantage to be gained by eradication of the entire population, and the President concurs, is it lawful? If not, why not? What authority could contest it?

If it is a unilateral authority of the Executive Branch, how can the Legislative branch take it away or limit it?

How can a target invoke jurisdiction of any federal court if the foreign target of a military strike cannot challenge in court the wisdom of retaliatory military action taken by the United States?

nolu chan  posted on  2011-10-08   2:13:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: war (#43)

In point of fact he was not a combatant.

The US is engaged in an authorized military action against Al Qaeda. That is indisuputable. It would, therefore, stand the laws and resolutions regarding armed conflict to disregard any member of an enemy organization who has direct knowledge of its terrorist operations and who also encourages those same operations to be regarded as a civilian rather than some form of combatant. It not only strains credulity of the laws of war but of common sense as well.

This assertion appears to be poorly chosen, invoking the Laws of War, considering what it is, and what the Geneva Conventions say. Where do you classify al-Aulaqi according to the Laws of War?

Black's Law Dictionary, 6th Ed.

Laws of war. This term denotes a branch of public international law, and comprises the body of rules and principles observed by civilized nations for the regulation of matters inherent in, or incidental to, the conduct of a public war; such, for example, as the relations of neutrals and belligerents, blockades, captures, prizes, truces and armistices, capitulations, prisoners, and declarations of war and peace; e.g. Geneva Convention.

Under Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts (Protocol I), 8 June 1977, Paragraph 50.1,

A civilian is any person who does not belong to one of the categories of persons referred to in Article 4 (A) (1), (2), (3) and (6) of the Third Convention and in Article 43 of this Protocol. In case of doubt whether a person is a civilian, that person shall be considered to be a civilian.

Article 4 of the Third Convention pertains to Prisoners of War.

Article 43 of the Protocol pertains to members of the Armed Forces.

Under The Geneva Convention, everyone who does not fall under the definition of Armed Forces or Prisoner of War is a civilian.

If you seriously invoke international law and assert al-Aulaqi is a civilian, Article 51 of the Protocol could cause concern.

- - -

Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts (Protocol I), 8 June 1977.

Art 50. Definition of civilians and civilian population

1. A civilian is any person who does not belong to one of the categories of persons referred to in Article 4 (A) (1), (2), (3) and (6) of the Third Convention and in Article 43 of this Protocol. In case of doubt whether a person is a civilian, that person shall be considered to be a civilian.

2. The civilian population comprises all persons who are civilians.

3. The presence within the civilian population of individuals who do not come within the definition of civilians does not deprive the population of its civilian character.

Art 51. - Protection of the civilian population

1. The civilian population and individual civilians shall enjoy general protection against dangers arising from military operations. To give effect to this protection, the following rules, which are additional to other applicable rules of international law, shall be observed in all circumstances.

2. The civilian population as such, as well as individual civilians, shall not be the object of attack. Acts or threats of violence the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population are prohibited.

3. Civilians shall enjoy the protection afforded by this section, unless and for such time as they take a direct part in hostilities.

4. Indiscriminate attacks are prohibited. Indiscriminate attacks are:

(a) those which are not directed at a specific military objective;

(b) those which employ a method or means of combat which cannot be directed at a specific military objective; or

(c) those which employ a method or means of combat the effects of which cannot be limited as required by this Protocol;

and consequently, in each such case, are of a nature to strike military objectives and civilians or civilian objects without distinction.

5. Among others, the following types of attacks are to be considered as indiscriminate:

(a) an attack by bombardment by any methods or means which treats as a single military objective a number of clearly separated and distinct military objectives located in a city, town, village or other area containing a similar concentration of civilians or civilian objects;

and

(b) an attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated.

6. Attacks against the civilian population or civilians by way of reprisals are prohibited.

7. The presence or movements of the civilian population or individual civilians shall not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations, in particular in attempts to shield military objectives from attacks or to shield, favour or impede military operations. The Parties to the conflict shall not direct the movement of the civilian population or individual civilians in order to attempt to shield military objectives from attacks or to shield military operations.

8. Any violation of these prohibitions shall not release the Parties to the conflict from their legal obligations with respect to the civilian population and civilians, including the obligation to take the precautionary measures provided for in Article 57.

- - -

Art 43. Armed forces

1. The armed forces of a Party to a conflict consist of all organized armed forces, groups and units which are under a command responsible to that Party for the conduct of its subordinates, even if that Party is represented by a government or an authority not recognized by an adverse Party. Such armed forces shall be subject to an internal disciplinary system which, inter alia, shall enforce compliance with the rules of international law applicable in armed conflict.

2. Members of the armed forces of a Party to a conflict (other than medical personnel and chaplains covered by Article 33 of the Third Convention) are combatants, that is to say, they have the right to participate directly in hostilities.

3. Whenever a Party to a conflict incorporates a paramilitary or armed law enforcement agency into its armed forces it shall so notify the other Parties to the conflict.

- - -

Convention (III) relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.

Art 4. A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:

(1) Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict, as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.

(2) Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:

(a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;

(b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;

(c) that of carrying arms openly;

(d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

(3) Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.

[...]

(6) Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war.

- - - - -

Don't forget, you are the one who invoked the Laws of War.

nolu chan  posted on  2011-10-08   4:00:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: nolu chan (#81) (Edited)

Who is empowered to decide when the military value to a target or military advantage gained by a killing has significant measurement?

Under our constitution it's somewehat of a trifurcate. The CIC is responsible for the National Security of the US but the ultimate authority would be the US Congress and the penultimate the courts...the Congress empowers the CIC and the Courts, lacking a Congressional estoppel of review, would oversee whether that empowerment was properly executed.

If they decide that Iran is a threat, and they put the entire population of Iran on a kill list, asserting there to be a military value or advantage to be gained by eradication of the entire population, and the President concurs, is it lawful? If not, why not? What authority could contest it?

If the POTUS wished to wage all out war against Iran, without the so-called ticking time bomb, then he would need a Congressional authorization to do so.

Your other questions imply that you might be under the impression that I believe that the 9/18/01 AUMF empowered the POTUS to do whatever he wanted to wage war. I don't so believe. I believe that it empowered him to use "all necessary and appropriate force" against Al Qaeda...

Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs

war  posted on  2011-10-08   9:32:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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