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Title: Battered by Economic Crisis, Greeks Turn to Barter Networks
Source:
New York Times
URL Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/02/w ... er-networks-surge.html?_r=2&hp
Published: Oct 1, 2011
Author: RACHEL DONADIO
Post Date: 2011-10-02 11:24:33 by lucysmom
Keywords: None
Views: 60184
Comments: 90
VOLOS, Greece — The first time he bought eggs, milk and jam at an outdoor market using not euros but an informal barter currency, Theodoros Mavridis, an unemployed electrician, was thrilled. The barter network in Volos has grown to 400 members. “I felt liberated, I felt free for the first time,” Mr. Mavridis said in a recent interview at a cafe in this port city in central Greece. “I instinctively reached into my pocket, but there was no need to.” Mr. Mavridis is a co-founder of a growing network here in Volos that uses a so-called Local Alternative Unit, or TEM in Greek, to exchange goods and services — language classes, baby-sitting, computer support, home-cooked meals — and to receive discounts at some local businesses. Part alternative currency, part barter system, part open-air market, the Volos network has grown exponentially in the past year, from 50 to 400 members. It is one of several such groups cropping up around the country, as Greeks squeezed by large wage cuts, tax increases and growing fears about whether they will continue to use the euro have looked for creative ways to cope with a radically changing economic landscape.
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#1. To: Not Badeye, A K A Stone, Fred Mertz, Godwinson, go65, war, no gnu taxes, Skip Intro, ferret mike, jwpegler, mininggold, brian s, mcgowanjm (#0)
Oooo - people helping each other - socialist.
"You post articles- intellectual excrement, really- that support your inane, insipid mentality, on a regular basis. Capitalist Eric
This is what gets me about the gold bugs. ANYTHING has intrinsic value even if that value is 0.
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
That isn't socialism. I think it is great that they found a way around the euro. Socialism doesn't help people. It hurts them.
I think of the Midas myth.
"You post articles- intellectual excrement, really- that support your inane, insipid mentality, on a regular basis. Capitalist Eric
So then if single payer health insurance saves lives, it's not Socialism.
"You post articles- intellectual excrement, really- that support your inane, insipid mentality, on a regular basis. Capitalist Eric
I liked when he swallowed the hot gold potatoes... I laughed...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
Where do you get these goofy ideas at? Taking from someone against their will to give it to someone else is socialism. Helping people through your free will and good heart is just good behavior.
What is being "taken"? Everyone would have the same access to health care.
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
No they wouldn't. Impossible. Secondly what if they don't want to be part of it? Why should a healthy normal person be forced to pay for some homos health care because they were risky and had the aids virus shot up their ass? Aren't they also calling abortion healthcare?
I take care of myself you take care of yourself. What is wrong with that? If you want to help someone then you help them. If I want to help someone then I'll help them. This is a violation of our natural rights as human beings. This isn't star trek.
Poor Midas!
"You post articles- intellectual excrement, really- that support your inane, insipid mentality, on a regular basis. Capitalist Eric
Isn't "Life" a natural right? HOW is denying a HEALTHY LIFE inviolate to that right?
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
How is taxing half of peoples income when you add them all up not a violation of your free will?
You've made a free decision to be a member of this society. Taxes are what we pay to maintain that order. You DON'T have to be a member of this society. You have the freedom to leave.
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
You see. You liberals want to tell everyone how to live. You want us to all have the same healthcare. You want us to all follow law X and law Z. Then you want to let deadbeats not work and take the fruits of other peoples labor. The fruit of your labor is yours not the collectives. That is the problem with you liberals. You are collectivists that want to tell everyone what to do and how to live and what to eat. When your healthcare law takes effect. You libtards will start complaining about what people eat (cunt michelle Obama is already doing that). Then you will say but we have to pay your healthcare. Such circular self promoting illogic.
Helping people through your free will and good heart is just good behavior. Then maybe you'd do well to pay your taxes with joy and thanksgiving.
"You post articles- intellectual excrement, really- that support your inane, insipid mentality, on a regular basis. Capitalist Eric
No one makes a free decision to be a member of this society unless you immigrated here. The rest of us were born her. And we have rights. One is to not have to join government healthcare collective.
I'd rather put a dagger in the heart of elected thieves who think like you do.
Do you want to join the ranks of prison inmates because they get free healthcare?
The healthy "normal" person is paying for himself in the future when he just might not be so healthy or normal. Scores of people got AIDS through blood transfusions. Other chaste and faithful spouses got AIDS from their not so chaste partners. Not treating an AIDS infected woman can and does result in a HIV positive baby (should we treat the woman, abort the baby, or let nature take it's course?).
"You post articles- intellectual excrement, really- that support your inane, insipid mentality, on a regular basis. Capitalist Eric
Did you go to church today? Got soap?
Between you and me...who wants to outlaw homosexuality and who has no problem with forcing children to pray in school or allowing compulsory church attendence as prison sentences? Between you and me, who wants people to live healthy lives free from the worry of illness decimating them and their families? When your healthcare law takes effect It's not my healthcare law. Most of it is a sham. There are some good things but you still can't move out of state and take your healthcare with you. Catastrophic coverage is still not guaranteed. And there is no single payer. You libtards will start complaining about what people eat (cunt michelle Obama is already doing that). Then you will say but we have to pay your healthcare. Such circular self promoting illogic. You don't believe that diet and health are somehow connected? That if people eat better and exercise their use of the health care system won't decrease?
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
Aren't you one of those guys objecting to Michelle Obama educating people on how to better take care of themselves and their children?
"You post articles- intellectual excrement, really- that support your inane, insipid mentality, on a regular basis. Capitalist Eric
Not if you're born.
"You post articles- intellectual excrement, really- that support your inane, insipid mentality, on a regular basis. Capitalist Eric
Aren't you paid with money collected from the people in taxes? How much of the money you take from them should you pay back?
"You post articles- intellectual excrement, really- that support your inane, insipid mentality, on a regular basis. Capitalist Eric
How so? Secondly what if they don't want to be part of it? What if I don't want to be a "part of" a tax system that rewards investment income over sweat of brow income? One that spends hundreds of billions of dollars maintaining a war machine that actually makes us LESS safe? One that subsidizes religious education and programs?
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
Everyone,. no matter where they are born has the same rights. That's what "natural rights" mean. It's a matter of whether or not the will of the of the governed is strong enough to demand that their government recognize these rights by limiting the government's power to encroach or abridge those rights. And I believe - strongly - that the right to a HEALTHY life, one optimized and maximized to the full abilities of health science, IS a natural right.
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
It is the "collective" that provides you the structure and opportunity to reap the particular fruit that is available in a civilized society - taxes are how you pay for what you get.
"You post articles- intellectual excrement, really- that support your inane, insipid mentality, on a regular basis. Capitalist Eric
So then you would deprive others who do not agree with you, the right to life?
"You post articles- intellectual excrement, really- that support your inane, insipid mentality, on a regular basis. Capitalist Eric
What you're saying- in effect- is that taxpayer- subsidized government is responsible for society. We managed as a country, to survive 150 years without "income" taxes and a bloated government.. . Which makes your entire line of thought demonstrably *false.* Thanks for playing!
DUMMY DwarF: ...I'm eating a meatball... Only if you have absolutely no sense of logic or history. That "first 150 years" saw us nearly fall apart at the seems several times. Several of those times were caused by severe economic dislocation that DID require the government to intervene.
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
Back then we didn't have an interstate highway system, a space program (that has created all kinds of opportunities for the private sector), or over 300 million in population. Railroads were built with government subsidies way back then.
"You post articles- intellectual excrement, really- that support your inane, insipid mentality, on a regular basis. Capitalist Eric
Periodic recessions and depressions (business cycles) are the elephant in the free market room.
"You post articles- intellectual excrement, really- that support your inane, insipid mentality, on a regular basis. Capitalist Eric
lol
No. I'm talking figuratively.
So you have a right to force someone to operate on you or give you medical treatment? That means they don't have a right to not work on your health care.
Another one ignorant of the prevalence of revenue stamps, especially for bank transactions.
So you think it's currently legal for one to abandon one's patients?
Stone needs to experience a good old fashioned, non discriminating, cholera epidemic first hand, in order to put the real fear of God into him.
They are an intrinsic part of an efficient market, in that misallocations of resources are cleared out. Before the Fed and "income" taxes, such events were measured over a few short years. Now they're *decades* long. But to your empty mind, such government-sponsored disasters justify *more* government. In other words, you idiot leftists *never* learn.
DUMMY DwarF: ...I'm eating a meatball... Your child is dying and needs medicine. The medicine is in a pharmacy that won't sell it to you because you couldn't afford a doctor to write the prescription. You break the window and steal the medicine. Who is the criminal?
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
That's an economist's mumbo jumbo for "oops"...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
If she worked as hard at rational thinking as throwing out bogus BS to sidetrack conversations, she might well become a productive member of society... She'll never go there, though. It's easier to believe her delusions, than face reality.
DUMMY DwarF: ...I'm eating a meatball... Do you ever have a comment about the topic at hand rather than one about the people discussing it? EVER?
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
She'll never go there, though. It's easier to believe her delusions, than face reality. Whatsa the matter? Poor baby Eric's upset again when reminded that it's illegal to kill everyone he disagrees with?
EVER? Does the word "hypocrite" mean anything to you?
DUMMY DwarF: ...I'm eating a meatball... I discuss the topics Junior. You gossip. When someone TRIES to discuss the topic with you, you flip out. You NEVER discuss the topic. Ever.
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
You gossip. I post facts. You want to "discuss" facts, as though your bloviations will alter those facts. It's a typical leftist approach- apply Alice-In-Wonderland logic, to anything with which you disagree. Your hope is to divert attention away from relevant facts, into irrelevant opinions, through endless discussions of nonsensical, hypothetical situations. Utterly superficial... and utterly empty. That's the leftist mindset. And why I call you DUMMY DwarF. You're dismissed, you sick fuck.
DUMMY DwarF: ...I'm eating a meatball... That's an outright lie, Junior. You post other people's opinions. Then you refuse to defend them.
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
You want to "discuss" facts, as though your bloviations will alter those facts. It's a typical leftist approach- apply Alice-In-Wonderland logic, to anything with which you disagree. Your hope is to divert attention away from relevant facts, into irrelevant opinions, through endless discussions of nonsensical, hypothetical situations. Utterly superficial... and utterly empty. That's the leftist mindset. And why I call you DUMMY DwarF. You're dismissed, you sick fuck. So whose work are you planning to steal for your doctoral dissertation or research project?
Please. The University of Phoenix doesn't do dissertations or projects.
Message found in a fortune cookie: Society creates the crime; the criminal commits it.
"You post articles- intellectual excrement, really- that support your inane, insipid mentality, on a regular basis. Capitalist Eric
Efficient? That's a strange definition of efficient. Before the Fed and "income" taxes, such events were measured over a few short years. Now they're *decades* long. Really? Check this out. List of recessions in the United States "You post articles- intellectual excrement, really- that support your inane, insipid mentality, on a regular basis. Capitalist Eric
This is why so many on this forum populate my bozo list.
Never swear "allegiance" to anything other than the 'right to change your mind'! How do you get that out of what I said? Are you nutso?
Notice that I got no answer to the question?
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
Is it just me or does that happen a lot?
"You post articles- intellectual excrement, really- that support your inane, insipid mentality, on a regular basis. Capitalist Eric
Hey man, legends in their own mind don't have to answer no stinking questions. ;-D It's the second childhood technique of forum management at work; Stone does it well.
WHAT SPACE PROGRAM!!! That's the only thing Owe-bama is NOT spending like a drunken sailor on!!!
We wouldn't have those things (Depressions / Recessions / Inflation) if we had honest money not based on the false "Progressive" Debt / Usury money creation system of the FARO RESERVE BANK and the International Banksters. And before you tell me there is not enough gold for traditional honest money, I already know that. I'm not talking about gold (most of which is owned by the same international "Progressive" bankers that gave us the FARO RESERVE BANK in the first place). I'm talking about a plan for honest money based on the production of AMERICAN MADE GOODS AND SERVICES that will restore jobs to this country based on a version of the Government Social Credit and Private Barter systems that I will be releasing shortly.
Her link just showed otherwise.
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
Her link just showed otherwise. Thank you. I'm glad somebody notice the link.
"You post articles- intellectual excrement, really- that support your inane, insipid mentality, on a regular basis. Capitalist Eric
lucysmom: Efficient? That's a strange definition of efficient. Then I suggest you read "Wealth of Nations," by Adam Smith. It'll teach you what you've thus far failed to learn. lucysmom: Really? Check this out. List of recessions in the United States en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lis...rly_recessions_and_crises I knew you wouldn't be able to resist. :) Look at the duration of recessions prior to 1913, when the Federal Reserve came into power. After only 16 years, they'd done enough to inflate a financial bubble, to cause the stock market crash of 1929, starting the Great Depression, which lasted until the USA got involved in WWII (first building war supplies ~1939-1940, prior to Pearl Harbor). The Fed-instigated bubble and subsequent bust, lasted at least ten years. [The breaks that wiki allege are as real as the current claims that the last recession "ended" in 2009; i.e., completely absurd.] This latest Depression really started in 2005, when the GDP went into negative territory, and further spiralling down. We're almost into 2012- so we're currently at 6+ years of a Depression. Go back and look at the durations of financial recessions/depressions that occurred, prior to having a centralized bank. Compare that to those, after. The results are crystal-clear. Thanks for playing, loon.
DUMMY DwarF: ...I'm eating a meatball... The question answers itself.
DUMMY DwarF: ...I'm eating a meatball... The stock market crash's cause was non traditional sources of lending, i.e. margin accounts at brokerage houses which allowd millions of dollars of stocks to be purchased for as little as a dime on the dollar. Sound familiar? Hostory just repeated itself inthe hosueing market. Fractional banking, in the traditional banking sector, was actually a by- product of the Great Depression, not the cause of it.
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
There you go posting nonsense again. I've already refuted the "methodology" that Williams used to force GDP into negative territory. You CANNOT strip out some government spending while allowing some to remain. The government is a consumer and its spending has ALWAYS been a part of both GDP and the GNP before it.
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
Even so, Long Depression 1873–96 has the Great Depression beat by 12 years. From the link: The average duration of the 11 recessions between 1945 and 2001 is 10 months, compared to 18 months for recessions between 1919 and 1945, and 22 months for recessions from 1854 to 1919.
"You post articles- intellectual excrement, really- that support your inane, insipid mentality, on a regular basis. Capitalist Eric
Really? The panic of 1873 resulted in a Depression lasting 5 1/2 years. "In 1879, the United States returned to the gold standard with the Specie Payment Resumption Act." In other words, when the government was forced OFF fiat-money, the Depression ended. Well, that DEPENDS now, doesn't it??? Since we all know the government has been actively COOKING the books since 1983, it would stand to reason that your quoted numbers don't really hold water. If you want to prove the above quotes, I'm certainly interested in reading the data... But from my perspective, the line that the Fed has minimized the frequency and magnitude of economic downturns (their supposed "mission") doesn't pass the sniff-test.
DUMMY DwarF: ...I'm eating a meatball... 1. The Long Depression was the first international depression 2. The money supply contracted as money was takes out of circulation in preparation for return to the gold standard; that resulted in depressed prices 3. As alway, look for fraud and speculation In short, the factors contributing to the Long Depression are many and too complex to be attributed to fiat currency alone.
"You post articles- intellectual excrement, really- that support your inane, insipid mentality, on a regular basis. Capitalist Eric
Perhaps. I'll give that one to you, as I'm not really inclined to get in a whizzing match over this particular time in history.
DUMMY DwarF: ...I'm eating a meatball... You anti-capitalist commies and statists will soon sow what you've reaped... Once we inevitably turn to a One World cashless society with a "currency" called "credits," bartering shall become the new underground economy and "black market." People will be audited and/or arrested for compensating their lawn mower/snow shoveler neighborhood kids in....hot cocoa. It is a dark and foreboding future indeed.
"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama
In times of socialist-created disaster, what other choice is there?
"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama
These are the two things you can always bank on. And currently we are overrun with their practitioners.
Taking from someone against their will to give it to someone else is socialism. Helping people through your free will and good heart is just good behavior. BULLSEYE. Where do you get these goofy ideas at? From her Workers Party meetings and her Commie Quartet bridge club??
"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama
Once we inevitably turn to a One World cashless society with a "currency" called "credits," bartering shall become the new underground economy and "black market." People will be audited and/or arrested for compensating their lawn mower/snow shoveler neighborhood kids in....hot cocoa. It is a dark and foreboding future indeed. So, what brand of snake oil are you selling today?
Yeah, MY first thoughts about a forced barter system in the aftermath of an inflationary currency that devalues the value of work is about "Gold." *eyeball roll* I suppose you'll be trading in all your gold for "barter credits"?
"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama
Were you howling at the moon while posting this or just howling at your monitor...just because? What will YOU be bartering as value when your currency won't pay your Gilbey's tab?
"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama
As usual, you miss the point. Gold is as arbitray as any other method for measuring *value*. People could exchange goods and services for rocks if they can argee upon a congruent value for such an exchange.
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
What will YOU be bartering as value when your currency won't pay your Gilbey's tab? Your favorite brand brought up for the hundredth time. I should have known that you are a spokes-thing for them. Actually in my area, bottles of wine are used for trading quite regularly. I last traded two bottles of Silver Oak to the guy who butchered and wrapped some of my beef.
My favorite cab. Have you had the 2007 yet? It was released a few weeks ago...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
Have you had the 2007 yet? It was released a few weeks ago... I don't drink wine. One of their chefs gave me some bottles in trade.
Aha...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
He said the vintage hadn't been officially released yet, so I assume it was that year's. I wish red wine didn't give me such a big headache.....
Gold has been "arbitrarily" regarded as a standard of wealth by ALL civilizations since the beginning of time. Maybe it's in our DNA. That's not going to change, but hey, I'm only the piano player.
"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama
Yea so?
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
Yea so? I was responding to your goofy comment: "This is what gets me about the gold bugs. ANYTHING has intrinsic value even if that value is 0." So what point are you making to the forum?? That you're annoyed by those who dare recognize gold as a universal and tangible standard of wealth instead of "0bama-credits"?
"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama
That GOLD is a [reactionary] solution looking for a problem.
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
Once we inevitably turn to a One World cashless society with a "currency" called "credits," bartering shall become the new underground economy and "black market." People will be audited and/or arrested for compensating their lawn mower/snow shoveler neighborhood kids in....hot cocoa. I am not anti-capitalist, I am pro what works. All systems that I know about are flawed. Capitalism's "business cycle" is a flaw. It hurts people through no fault of their own sort of like the rapacious gods of old who, from time to time, demanded human sacrifice to keep the "cosmos" well oiled and working efficiently. As for the cashless society stuff leading to total enslavement and loss of privacy, where have I ever, even remotely advocated a cashless system? For the rest, I would look to those who promote systems like the FairTax, or as writers on the mises.org site puts it "the permission to live tax".
"You post articles- intellectual excrement, really- that support your inane, insipid mentality, on a regular basis. Capitalist Eric
They are too confused to answer that question.
"You post articles- intellectual excrement, really- that support your inane, insipid mentality, on a regular basis. Capitalist Eric
From her Workers Party meetings and her Commie Quartet bridge club?? From Jesus in the Bible.
"You post articles- intellectual excrement, really- that support your inane, insipid mentality, on a regular basis. Capitalist Eric
After years of rampant consumerism and easy credit, such nascent initiatives speak to the new mood in Greece, where imposed austerity has caused people to come together — not only to protest en masse, but also to help one another.
#2. To: lucysmom (#0)
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#3. To: lucysmom (#1)
Oooo - people helping each other - socialist.
#4. To: war (#2)
This is what gets me about the gold bugs. ANYTHING has intrinsic value even if that value is 0.
#5. To: A K A Stone (#3)
Socialism doesn't help people. It hurts them.
#6. To: lucysmom (#4)
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#7. To: lucysmom (#5)
So then if single payer health insurance saves lives, it's not Socialism.
#8. To: A K A Stone (#7)
Taking from someone against their will to give it to someone else is socialism.
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#9. To: war (#8)
What is being "taken"? Everyone would have the same access to health care.
#10. To: war (#8)
#11. To: war (#6)
#12. To: A K A Stone (#10)
This is a violation of our natural rights as human beings.
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#13. To: war (#12)
#14. To: A K A Stone (#13)
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#15. To: war (#12)
#16. To: A K A Stone (#7)
Taking from someone against their will to give it to someone else is socialism.
#17. To: war (#14)
You've made a free decision to be a member of this society.
#18. To: lucysmom (#16)
#19. To: A K A Stone (#18)
I'd rather put a dagger in the heart of elected thieves who think like you do.
#20. To: A K A Stone (#9)
Why should a healthy normal person be forced to pay for some homos health care because they were risky and had the aids virus shot up their ass?
#21. To: A K A Stone (#15)
#22. To: A K A Stone (#15)
You liberals want to tell everyone how to live.
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#23. To: A K A Stone (#10)
I take care of myself you take care of yourself. What is wrong with that? If you want to help someone then you help them. If I want to help someone then I'll help them.
#24. To: war (#12)
Isn't "Life" a natural right?
#25. To: A K A Stone (#13)
How is taxing half of peoples income when you add them all up not a violation of your free will?
#26. To: A K A Stone (#9)
No they wouldn't. Impossible.
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#27. To: A K A Stone (#17)
(Edited)
No one makes a free decision to be a member of this society unless you immigrated here. The rest of us were born her. And we have rights. One is to not have to join government healthcare collective.
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#28. To: A K A Stone (#15)
The fruit of your labor is yours not the collectives.
#29. To: A K A Stone (#18)
I'd rather put a dagger in the heart of elected thieves who think like you do.
#30. To: lucysmom (#28)
It is the "collective" that provides you the structure and opportunity to reap the particular fruit that is available in a civilized society - taxes are how you pay for what you get.
Capitalist Eric: Foreplay before the president's staff?
http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=24347&Disp=35#C35
#31. To: Capitalist Eric (#30)
Which makes your entire line of thought demonstrably *false.*
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#32. To: Capitalist Eric (#30)
We managed as a country, to survive 150 years without "income" taxes and a bloated government.. .
#33. To: war (#31)
That "first 150 years" saw us nearly fall apart at the seems several times. Several of those times were caused by severe economic dislocation that DID require the government to intervene.
#34. To: mininggold (#19)
Do you want to join the ranks of prison inmates because they get free healthcare?
#35. To: lucysmom (#29)
So then you would deprive others who do not agree with you, the right to life?
#36. To: war (#27)
And I believe - strongly - that the right to a HEALTHY life, one optimized and maximized to the full abilities of health science, IS a natural right.
#37. To: lucysmom, Capitalist Eric (#32)
Back then we didn't have an interstate highway system, a space program (that has created all kinds of opportunities for the private sector), or over 300 million in population. Railroads were built with government subsidies way back then.
#38. To: A K A Stone (#36)
So you have a right to force someone to operate on you or give you medical treatment? That means they don't have a right to not work on your health care.
#39. To: war, A K A Stone (#22)
Between you and me, who wants people to live healthy lives free from the worry of illness decimating them and their families?
#40. To: lucysmom (#33)
Periodic recessions and depressions (business cycles) are the elephant in the free market room.
Capitalist Eric: Foreplay before the president's staff?
http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=24347&Disp=35#C35
#41. To: A K A Stone (#36)
So you have a right to force someone to operate on you or give you medical treatment?
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#42. To: Capitalist Eric, lucysmom (#40)
They are an intrinsic part of an efficient market, in that misallocations of resources are cleared out.
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#43. To: A K A Stone (#34)
Idiotbitch: Do you want to join the ranks of prison inmates because they get free healthcare?
Capitalist Eric: Foreplay before the president's staff?
http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=24347&Disp=35#C35
#44. To: Capitalist Eric (#43)
(Edited)
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#45. To: Capitalist Eric (#43)
If she worked as hard at rational thinking as throwing out bogus BS to sidetrack conversations, she might well become a productive member of society...
#46. To: war (#44)
Do you ever have a comment about the topic at hand rather than one about the people discussing it?
Capitalist Eric: Foreplay before the president's staff?
http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=24347&Disp=35#C35
#47. To: Capitalist Eric (#46)
(Edited)
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#48. To: war (#47)
I discuss the topics Junior.
Capitalist Eric: Foreplay before the president's staff?
http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=24347&Disp=35#C35
#49. To: Capitalist Eric (#48)
I post facts.
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#50. To: Capitalist Eric (#48)
I post facts.
#51. To: mininggold (#50)
So whose work are you planning to steal for your doctoral dissertation or research project?
#52. To: war (#41)
Who is the criminal?
#53. To: Capitalist Eric (#40)
They are an intrinsic part of an efficient market, in that misallocations of resources are cleared out.
#54. To: war (#47)
You NEVER discuss the topic.
#55. To: mininggold (#38)
So you think it's currently legal for one to abandon one's patients?
#56. To: lucysmom (#52)
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#57. To: war (#56)
#58. To: war (#56)
"Notice that I got no answer to the question?"
#59. To: lucysmom (#32)
The FARO RESERVE BANK!!! 
#60. To: lucysmom (#33)
The FARO RESERVE BANK!!!
#61. To: Coral Snake (#60)
We wouldn't have those things (Depressions / Recessions / Inflation) if we had honest money not based on the false "Progressive" Debt / Usury money creation system of the FARO RESERVE BANK and the International Banksters.
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#62. To: war, Coral Snake (#61)
We wouldn't have those things (Depressions / Recessions / Inflation) if we had honest money not based on the false "Progressive" Debt / Usury money creation system of the FARO RESERVE BANK and the International Banksters.
#63. To: lucysmom (#53)
Capitalist Eric: They are an intrinsic part of an efficient market, in that misallocations of resources are cleared out.
Capitalist Eric: Before the Fed and "income" taxes, such events were measured over a few short years. Now they're *decades* long.
Capitalist Eric: Foreplay before the president's staff?
http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=24347&Disp=35#C35
#64. To: A K A Stone (#55)
Are you nutso?
Capitalist Eric: Foreplay before the president's staff?
http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=24347&Disp=35#C35
#65. To: Capitalist Eric (#63)
(Edited)
After only 16 years, they'd done enough to inflate a financial bubble, to cause the stock market crash of 1929
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#66. To: Capitalist Eric (#63)
This latest Depression really started in 2005, when the GDP went into negative territory, and further spiralling down. We're almost into 2012- so we're currently at 6+ years of a Depression.
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#67. To: Capitalist Eric (#63)
After only 16 years, they'd done enough to inflate a financial bubble, to cause the stock market crash of 1929, starting the Great Depression, which lasted until the USA got involved in WWII (first building war supplies ~1939-1940
#68. To: lucysmom (#67)
Even so, Long Depression 1873–96 has the Great Depression beat by 12 years.
From the link: The average duration of the 11 recessions between 1945 and 2001 is 10 months, compared to 18 months for recessions between 1919 and 1945, and 22 months for recessions from 1854 to 1919.
Capitalist Eric: Foreplay before the president's staff?
http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=24347&Disp=35#C35
#69. To: Capitalist Eric (#68)
The panic of 1873 resulted in a Depression lasting 5 1/2 years. "In 1879, the United States returned to the gold standard with the Specie Payment Resumption Act." In other words, when the government was forced OFF fiat-money, the Depression ended.
#70. To: lucysmom (#69)
the factors contributing to the Long Depression are many and too complex to be attributed to fiat currency alone.
Capitalist Eric: Foreplay before the president's staff?
http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=24347&Disp=35#C35
#71. To: lucysmom (#0)
(Edited)
#72. To: lucysmom (#1)
Oooo - people helping each other - socialist.
#73. To: lucysmom (#69)
3. As alway, look for fraud and speculation
#74. To: A K A Stone, lucysmom (#7)
#75. To: Liberator (#71)
You anti-capitalist commies and statists will soon sow what you've reaped...
#76. To: war (#2)
This is what gets me about the gold bugs. ANYTHING has intrinsic value even if that value is 0.
#77. To: mininggold (#75)
So, what brand of snake oil are you selling today?
#78. To: Liberator (#76)
I suppose you'll be trading in all your gold for "barter credits"?
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#79. To: Liberator (#77)
Were you howling at the moon while posting this or just howling at your monitor...just because?
#80. To: mininggold (#79)
I last traded two bottles of Silver Oak
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#81. To: war (#80)
My favorite cab.
#82. To: mininggold (#81)
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#83. To: war (#82)
Aha...
#84. To: war (#78)
Gold is as arbitray as any other method for measuring *value*. People could exchange goods and services for rocks if they can argee upon a congruent value for such an exchange.
#85. To: Liberator (#84)
Gold has been "arbitrarily" regarded as a standard of wealth by ALL civilizations since the beginning of time.
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#86. To: war (#85)
Gold has been "arbitrarily" regarded as a standard of wealth by ALL civilizations since the beginning of time.
#87. To: Liberator (#86)
So what point are you making to the forum??
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#88. To: Liberator (#71)
You anti-capitalist commies and statists will soon sow what you've reaped...
#89. To: mininggold (#75)
So, what brand of snake oil are you selling today?
#90. To: Liberator, A K A Stone (#74)
Where do you get these goofy ideas at?
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