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Economy
See other Economy Articles

Title: Battered by Economic Crisis, Greeks Turn to Barter Networks
Source: New York Times
URL Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/02/w ... er-networks-surge.html?_r=2&hp
Published: Oct 1, 2011
Author: RACHEL DONADIO
Post Date: 2011-10-02 11:24:33 by lucysmom
Keywords: None
Views: 62094
Comments: 90

VOLOS, Greece — The first time he bought eggs, milk and jam at an outdoor market using not euros but an informal barter currency, Theodoros Mavridis, an unemployed electrician, was thrilled.

The barter network in Volos has grown to 400 members.

“I felt liberated, I felt free for the first time,” Mr. Mavridis said in a recent interview at a cafe in this port city in central Greece. “I instinctively reached into my pocket, but there was no need to.”

Mr. Mavridis is a co-founder of a growing network here in Volos that uses a so-called Local Alternative Unit, or TEM in Greek, to exchange goods and services — language classes, baby-sitting, computer support, home-cooked meals — and to receive discounts at some local businesses.

Part alternative currency, part barter system, part open-air market, the Volos network has grown exponentially in the past year, from 50 to 400 members. It is one of several such groups cropping up around the country, as Greeks squeezed by large wage cuts, tax increases and growing fears about whether they will continue to use the euro have looked for creative ways to cope with a radically changing economic landscape.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 69.

#1. To: Not Badeye, A K A Stone, Fred Mertz, Godwinson, go65, war, no gnu taxes, Skip Intro, ferret mike, jwpegler, mininggold, brian s, mcgowanjm (#0)

After years of rampant consumerism and easy credit, such nascent initiatives speak to the new mood in Greece, where imposed austerity has caused people to come together — not only to protest en masse, but also to help one another.

Oooo - people helping each other - socialist.

lucysmom  posted on  2011-10-02   11:27:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: lucysmom (#1)

Oooo - people helping each other - socialist.

That isn't socialism. I think it is great that they found a way around the euro. Socialism doesn't help people. It hurts them.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-10-02   11:37:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: A K A Stone (#3)

Socialism doesn't help people. It hurts them.

So then if single payer health insurance saves lives, it's not Socialism.

lucysmom  posted on  2011-10-02   12:19:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: lucysmom (#5)

So then if single payer health insurance saves lives, it's not Socialism.

Where do you get these goofy ideas at?

Taking from someone against their will to give it to someone else is socialism.

Helping people through your free will and good heart is just good behavior.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-10-02   12:30:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: A K A Stone (#7)

Taking from someone against their will to give it to someone else is socialism.

What is being "taken"? Everyone would have the same access to health care.

war  posted on  2011-10-02   12:37:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: war (#8)

I take care of myself you take care of yourself. What is wrong with that? If you want to help someone then you help them. If I want to help someone then I'll help them.

This is a violation of our natural rights as human beings. This isn't star trek.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-10-02   12:40:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: A K A Stone (#10)

This is a violation of our natural rights as human beings.

Isn't "Life" a natural right?

HOW is denying a HEALTHY LIFE inviolate to that right?

war  posted on  2011-10-02   12:43:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: war (#12)

You see. You liberals want to tell everyone how to live. You want us to all have the same healthcare. You want us to all follow law X and law Z. Then you want to let deadbeats not work and take the fruits of other peoples labor. The fruit of your labor is yours not the collectives.

That is the problem with you liberals. You are collectivists that want to tell everyone what to do and how to live and what to eat.

When your healthcare law takes effect. You libtards will start complaining about what people eat (cunt michelle Obama is already doing that). Then you will say but we have to pay your healthcare. Such circular self promoting illogic.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-10-02   12:47:10 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: A K A Stone (#15)

The fruit of your labor is yours not the collectives.

It is the "collective" that provides you the structure and opportunity to reap the particular fruit that is available in a civilized society - taxes are how you pay for what you get.

lucysmom  posted on  2011-10-02   13:02:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: lucysmom (#28)

It is the "collective" that provides you the structure and opportunity to reap the particular fruit that is available in a civilized society - taxes are how you pay for what you get.

What you're saying- in effect- is that taxpayer- subsidized government is responsible for society.

We managed as a country, to survive 150 years without "income" taxes and a bloated government.. .

Which makes your entire line of thought demonstrably *false.*

Thanks for playing!

Capitalist Eric  posted on  2011-10-02   13:39:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Capitalist Eric (#30)

Which makes your entire line of thought demonstrably *false.*

Only if you have absolutely no sense of logic or history.

That "first 150 years" saw us nearly fall apart at the seems several times. Several of those times were caused by severe economic dislocation that DID require the government to intervene.

war  posted on  2011-10-02   13:52:46 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: war (#31)

That "first 150 years" saw us nearly fall apart at the seems several times. Several of those times were caused by severe economic dislocation that DID require the government to intervene.

Periodic recessions and depressions (business cycles) are the elephant in the free market room.

lucysmom  posted on  2011-10-02   14:03:26 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: lucysmom (#33)

Periodic recessions and depressions (business cycles) are the elephant in the free market room.

They are an intrinsic part of an efficient market, in that misallocations of resources are cleared out.

Before the Fed and "income" taxes, such events were measured over a few short years. Now they're *decades* long.

But to your empty mind, such government-sponsored disasters justify *more* government.

In other words, you idiot leftists *never* learn.

Capitalist Eric  posted on  2011-10-02   14:51:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: Capitalist Eric (#40)

They are an intrinsic part of an efficient market, in that misallocations of resources are cleared out.

Efficient? That's a strange definition of efficient.

Before the Fed and "income" taxes, such events were measured over a few short years. Now they're *decades* long.

Really? Check this out.

List of recessions in the United States

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lis...rly_recessions_and_crises

lucysmom  posted on  2011-10-02   16:51:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: lucysmom (#53)

Capitalist Eric: They are an intrinsic part of an efficient market, in that misallocations of resources are cleared out.

lucysmom: Efficient? That's a strange definition of efficient.

Then I suggest you read "Wealth of Nations," by Adam Smith. It'll teach you what you've thus far failed to learn.

Capitalist Eric: Before the Fed and "income" taxes, such events were measured over a few short years. Now they're *decades* long.

lucysmom: Really? Check this out. List of recessions in the United States en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lis...rly_recessions_and_crises

I knew you wouldn't be able to resist. :)

Look at the duration of recessions prior to 1913, when the Federal Reserve came into power. After only 16 years, they'd done enough to inflate a financial bubble, to cause the stock market crash of 1929, starting the Great Depression, which lasted until the USA got involved in WWII (first building war supplies ~1939-1940, prior to Pearl Harbor). The Fed-instigated bubble and subsequent bust, lasted at least ten years. [The breaks that wiki allege are as real as the current claims that the last recession "ended" in 2009; i.e., completely absurd.]

This latest Depression really started in 2005, when the GDP went into negative territory, and further spiralling down. We're almost into 2012- so we're currently at 6+ years of a Depression.

Go back and look at the durations of financial recessions/depressions that occurred, prior to having a centralized bank. Compare that to those, after.

The results are crystal-clear.

Thanks for playing, loon.

Capitalist Eric  posted on  2011-10-03   10:47:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: Capitalist Eric (#63)

After only 16 years, they'd done enough to inflate a financial bubble, to cause the stock market crash of 1929, starting the Great Depression, which lasted until the USA got involved in WWII (first building war supplies ~1939-1940

Even so, Long Depression 1873–96 has the Great Depression beat by 12 years.

From the link: The average duration of the 11 recessions between 1945 and 2001 is 10 months, compared to 18 months for recessions between 1919 and 1945, and 22 months for recessions from 1854 to 1919.

lucysmom  posted on  2011-10-03   11:26:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: lucysmom (#67)

Even so, Long Depression 1873–96 has the Great Depression beat by 12 years.

Really?

The panic of 1873 resulted in a Depression lasting 5 1/2 years. "In 1879, the United States returned to the gold standard with the Specie Payment Resumption Act." In other words, when the government was forced OFF fiat-money, the Depression ended.

From the link: The average duration of the 11 recessions between 1945 and 2001 is 10 months, compared to 18 months for recessions between 1919 and 1945, and 22 months for recessions from 1854 to 1919.

Well, that DEPENDS now, doesn't it???

Since we all know the government has been actively COOKING the books since 1983, it would stand to reason that your quoted numbers don't really hold water. If you want to prove the above quotes, I'm certainly interested in reading the data...

But from my perspective, the line that the Fed has minimized the frequency and magnitude of economic downturns (their supposed "mission") doesn't pass the sniff-test.

Capitalist Eric  posted on  2011-10-03   11:49:29 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: Capitalist Eric (#68)

The panic of 1873 resulted in a Depression lasting 5 1/2 years. "In 1879, the United States returned to the gold standard with the Specie Payment Resumption Act." In other words, when the government was forced OFF fiat-money, the Depression ended.

1. The Long Depression was the first international depression

2. The money supply contracted as money was takes out of circulation in preparation for return to the gold standard; that resulted in depressed prices

3. As alway, look for fraud and speculation

In short, the factors contributing to the Long Depression are many and too complex to be attributed to fiat currency alone.

lucysmom  posted on  2011-10-03   12:12:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 69.

#70. To: lucysmom (#69)

the factors contributing to the Long Depression are many and too complex to be attributed to fiat currency alone.

Perhaps. I'll give that one to you, as I'm not really inclined to get in a whizzing match over this particular time in history.

Capitalist Eric  posted on  2011-10-03 12:51:51 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: lucysmom (#69)

3. As alway, look for fraud and speculation

These are the two things you can always bank on. And currently we are overrun with their practitioners.

mininggold  posted on  2011-10-03 13:02:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 69.

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