Economy
See other Economy Articles
Title: ACLU objects to killing of al Qaeda leader
Source:
The Hill
URL Source: http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief ... -to-killing-of-al-qaeda-leader
Published: Sep 30, 2011
Author: Erik Wasson
Post Date: 2011-09-30 12:40:46 by Sebastian
Keywords: None
Views: 126142
Comments: 179
The American Civil Liberties Union has objected to the killing of the U.S.-born Muslim cleric Anwar al-Awlaki in Yemen by U.S. forces. Awlaki was a U.S. citizen, and the ACLU said President Obama does not have the authority to kill an American without due process of law. The White House confirmed the cleric was killed by a U.S. drone attack. “The targeted killing program violates both U.S. and international law,” ACLU Deputy Legal Director Jameel Jaffer said. “As we’ve seen today, this is a program under which American citizens far from any battlefield can be executed by their own government without judicial process, and on the basis of standards and evidence that are kept secret not just from the public but from the courts.” The ACLU said the government only has the authority to kill Americans when a threat is imminent. “It is a mistake to invest the president — any president — with the unreviewable power to kill any American whom he deems to present a threat to the country,” Jaffer said. Ben Wizner, litigation director of the ACLU’s National Security Project, added: “If the Constitution means anything, it surely means that the president does not have unreviewable authority to summarily execute any American whom he concludes is an enemy of the state.” Obama’s actions also garnered criticism from GOP presidential candidate Rep. Ron Paul (Texas).
Post Comment Private Reply Ignore Thread
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest
Comments (1-92) not displayed.
.
.
.
#93. To: nolu chan (#77)
Apparently, you need to lay off of the 'shrooms. I challenge you to post the statement in which I claimed that Congress RATIFIES amendments. Apparently, you also need a lesson in HOW the USCON is amended. There are two ways, one is a Constitutional convention of the States; the other is that the CONGRESS may PROPOSE amendments to the USCON and submit them to the States for ratificaton by their legislatures. This can me found in the Fifth Article opf the USCON which states, in part: The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution... The 14th amendment passed out of the Congress in June of 1866...
Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs
You've posted the floor speech of one of 535 members of the US Congress. Do you have 534 more stating that they share Byrd's opinion as to what was passed on 9/18/01. Senator McCain: “The focus on Al Qaeda and its affiliates was intentional. Al Qaeda is, and has been for the last 10 years, the focus of the Authorization for the Use of Military Force (AUMF) that Congress passed overwhelmingly after the attack on our country on September 11, 2001. We are at war with Al Qaeda and its affiliates. The President has said so plainly. “In fact, it was just days ago that the Obama Administration used the fact that we are at war with Al Qaeda to kill an American citizen, Anwar al-Awlaki, in Yemen. That was a decision I fully support. Awlaki had become a leading operational planner for what Administration officials now regard as the branch of Al Qaeda that poses the most significant threat to the United States. Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs
Go fuck yourself, Stone. It matters not to me if anyone else sees it. You saw it...that's all that counts. Have a nice day...I'll be at True Blue/// /asshole
Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs
A religious bigot like you IS the trash.
Even were I to agree with you, I'd offer you no support because you try to insult when I don't. I would say someone of your maturity level has zero influence on me.
When Stone grows up he wants to be like all those despots he admires.
When the people are afraid, that's when the greatest long term money is made.~~~~Clark Howard
He has one of those Napoleon complexes apparently.
Gee, its ground hog day.....again.
Proxy IP's are amusing.....lmao
Thanks. And we killed Izzy Yamamoto... - - - [nc #34] Please show where AUMF pertains to anything other than military force in combat? How do you translate it to non-military force engaged in assassination? Do you really find the status of American/Yemini citizen Al-Aulaqi comparable to that of Admiral (Japanese Naval General) Yamamoto? - - - [war #37] Please cite your authority for claiming that a) the resolution requires that all military actions be "combat" when the resolution clearly states "all necessary and appropriate force" and that command and control structures and personnel would be immune from any type of military strike or that b) a drone attack is not "military force"? And please don't cite wikipedia as being some sort of authority. Thanks. Permit me to give a fuller exploration of your Izzy Yamamoto remark with a quote from competent legal authority. See Yoram Dinstein, The Conduct of Hostilities under the Law of International Armed Conflict, Second Edition, Cambridge University Press, 2010, pp. 103-104. As for your CIA led drone strike, see Vincent-Joël Proulx, If the Hat Fits Wear It, If the Turban Fits, Run for your Life: Reflections on the Indefinite Detention and Targeted Killing of Suspected Terrorists, Hastings Law Journal, Volume 56, 2004-2005, page 888, discussing the targeted killing, by drone strike, of Mullah Mohammed Omar. In this case it is much more than likely that CIA operatives coordinated the targeted killings. Such has been stated to be the fact.
“The focus on Al Qaeda and its affiliates was intentional. Al Qaeda is, and has been for the last 10 years, the focus of the Authorization for the Use of Military Force (AUMF) that Congress passed overwhelmingly after the attack on our country on September 11, 2001. We are at war with Al Qaeda and its affiliates. The President has said so plainly. “In fact, it was just days ago that the Obama Administration used the fact that we are at war with Al Qaeda to kill an American citizen, Anwar al-Awlaki, in Yemen. That was a decision I fully support. Awlaki had become a leading operational planner for what Administration officials now regard as the branch of Al Qaeda that poses the most significant threat to the United States. --Senator McCain Floor Speech, October 6, 2011 As for the McCain claim that "[w]e are at war with Al Qaeda and its affiliates," we are not at war. We are engaged in an armed conflict. McCain's misstatement does not change international law. He's the one who said Iran was training al Qaeda operatives and sang Bomb, bomb, Iran. See Gary D. Solis, U.S. Military Academy, The Law of Armed Conflict, Cambridge University Press, 2010, paragraph 1.4.1, "The Law of War" or "The Law of Armed Conflict"? at pp. 20-21. See Nils Melzer, Targeted Killing in International Law, Oxford monographs in International Law, Oxford University Press, 2008, reprinted 2010, pp. 246-247. a) From War to Armed Conflict Before the establishment of the United Nations at the end of the Second World War, 'war' was generally understood as a formally declared, and mutually recognized, state of hostility between sovereign States, which found its expression in the application of armed force. Peace and war were not so much factual situations as they were formalized legal conditions to which either the entire law of peace (jus pacis) or, alternatively, the full law of war (jus in bello) applied. [...] [T]he contemporary concept of 'international armed conflict' no longer requires a declaration of war, nor does its existence depend on the willingness of the parties to recognize a state of war. Certainly, in cases where neither hostilities nor any other infringement of foreign sovereignty have taken place, a formal declaration of war still ipso facto gives rise to the applicability of the Geneva Conventions. In all other cases, the existence of an international armed conflict is simply determined by the actual occurrence of unilateral or mutual hostilities, which must express the belligerent intent of one or both parties to the conflict. In practical terms, the existence of an armed conflict obliges the involved parties to respect IHL 'in all circumstances' —regardless of reciprocity— as soon as, and the latest when, hostilities are initiated as a matter of fact. Even the Defense Authorization Bill that McCain was addressing uses the term armed conflict and not war. The material I quoted, and linked to in its entirety, was contemporaneous with the passage of the resolutions. Your unsourced, unlinked quote is from last week, 10 years after the debate on the resolutions. Most congressmen are whores and what distinguishes them is what streetcorner they work. McCain's streetcorner is the Senate Armed Forces Committee. As for the McCain floor speech, you forgot to mention that the floor debate was on the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012, not the Authorization for the Use of Military Force of 2001, nor did you provide the context of McCain's remarks. He was pimping the 1,145-page Defense Authorization Act. It is stuck in the Senate committee since May and Senator McCain is upset that he cannot get it brought to the floor with some of the crap that is in it. It would appear from his speech that he identifies the problem as Section 1034 at pages 567-568. Apparently, it is not going to reach the floor with that in it (among other things). Notably, this provision tarting up the bill has nothing whatever to do with funding authorization. H.R. 1540, National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012, Subtitle D—Counterterrorism, Section 1034, Affirmation of Armed Conflict with Al-Qaeda, the Taliban, and Associated Forces, pp. 567-568 of 1145, last action as of 10/11/2011 - Received in the Senate and Read twice and referred to the Committee on Armed Services. Congress affirms that— (2) the President has the authority to use all necessary and appropriate force during the current armed conflict with al-Qaeda, the Taliban, and associatec1 forces pursuant to the Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public Law 107-40; 50 U.S.C. 1541 note); (3) the current armed conflict includes nations, organization, and persons who— (B) have engaged in hostilities or have directly supported hostilities in aid of a nation, organization, or person described in subparagraph (A); and (4) the President's authority pursuant to the Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public Law 107-40; 50 U.S.C. 1541 note) includes the authority to detain belligerents, including persons described in paragraph (3), until the termination of hostilities. The McCain floor speech in its entirety from the Congressional Record: Cong Rec, S6323-S6324, 06 Oct 2011, McCain, National Defense Authorization Act for FY 2012 Opposition to the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012: Rep. Van Hollen directly on point shows the crap that McCain wants to insert into the AUMF that was deliberately removed from the GW Bush administration draft of the bill before passage. If the AUMF already did this crap, they would not still be trying to sneak it in the back door. Other congressmen point out additional problems with this $690 BILLION Christmas tree festooned with ornaments, plus a reversal of the repeal of DADT. Whatever one thinks of the repeal of the DADT policy, this provision does not belong in the financial authorization bill, attempting to hold military funding hostage to crap not related to funding. The policy issue is fair game for congress, but not in this bill. Cong. Rec. ER-988, May 27, 2011, Rep. Van Hollen. Section 1034 of this bill gives this President and all future Presidents vastly expanded authority to take America to war without further congressional action. It gives the Executive a virtual blank check by authorizing the President to deploy an unlimited number of troops into a war of unlimited duration based on illdefined standards. The language in 1034 represents a total abdication of congressional responsibility under the Constitution. The President already has broad authority to use military force against al Qaeda and Taliban forces pursuant to the Authorization of the Use of Military Force (AUMF) that was adopted in 2001. That provision states: That the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons. This bill replaces the existing AUMF with a new provision that provides the President with vast new war-making authority. Under the umbrella of the war against terrorism, it expands the existing broad authority in at least three ways: DE-LINKS USE OF FORCE FROM 9/11 ATTACKS The original language gave the President the authority to use military force against any entities he determined to be connected to the attacks of September 11, 2001 or any nation, organization or persons he determined harbored such entities. The new language expands the authority to target entities regardless of their connection to the September 11 attacks. PERMITS ATTACKS ON UNDEFINED ‘‘ASSOCIATED FORCES’’ The original language authorized all necessary force against the entities responsible for the 9/11 attacks, but did not provide the authority to wage war against undetermined ‘‘associated forces.’’ The term ‘‘associated forces’’ is totally undefined and would allow any President to apply that term with great elasticity to go to war without congressional approval in any number of situations. ALLOWS USE OF FORCE AGAINST ENTITIES THAT ‘‘SUPPORT’’ THE TALIBAN, AL QAEDA OR ‘‘ASSOCIATED FORCES’’ The original language allowed the use of force against entities that ‘‘harbored’’ the terrorist groups that perpetuated the attacks of 9/11. The new language allows the President to wage war, without additional congressional consent, against any entities that substantially support the Taliban, al Qaeda or ‘‘associated forces.’’ This is a much weaker standard than the existing requirement. Had the Congress included this language in the 2001 AUMF, President Bush could have sent American troops into Iraq without seeking a separate resolution to use force. This language authorizes the Executive to launch military action against an entity that had nothing to do with the attacks of September 11, 2001 so long as the President determines that a country or organization is substantially supporting the Taliban, al Qaeda or ‘‘associated forces.’’ The Bush administration claimed that the regime of Saddam Hussein was allowing Iraqi territory to be used to train al Qaeda elements. While I believe the Congress made a mistake in voting to authorize President Bush to go to war in Iraq, at least Congress debated and voted on the decision. With this new provision in place, no such vote would have been required. Under the Constitution, the President of the United States already has relatively broad powers to use military force as Commander in Chief. In addition, the existing Authorization of the Use of Military Force provides the President with additional authority to take military action in a wide array of situations without seeking additional congressional approval or a declaration of war. It is a reckless surrender of congressional responsibility for the Congress to write this new open-ended blank check for the use of military force. Not even the Executive has been brazen enough to request this new broad grant of authority. The language in Section 1034 is sloppy, illconsidered and poorly conceived. No hearings were held to consider its full ramifications. This Congress should be ashamed of itself for its careless and cavalier approach to a question of such grave national significance. I urge the Senate and the President to reject this provision and hope to have an opportunity to vote for a revised Defense Authorization Act that doesn’t undermine the constitutional responsibilities of the Congress. Cong. Rec. ER-988, May 27, 2011, Rep. Inslee. As you know, USFHP has been an extremely popular program within the Military Health System since its introduction in 1981, serving more than 115,000 active duty service members, veterans, and their families 16 states, including more than 11,000 in Washington state. USFHP consistently earns a 90 percent satisfaction rating among its enrollees— by far the highest among military beneficiary programs. In addition to its success and popularity, this program plays an integral component in the Department of Defense (DoD) meeting its commitment to provide health care to those who have served our country in uniform. The provision included in this year’s Defense Authorization bill would terminate health care services under the plan when beneficiaries reach the age of 65 and become eligible to transfer to Medicare. Over one third of all USFHP beneficiaries are currently over 65 and are taking advantage of the USFHP managed care structure. Removing them from the program could undermine the highly effective disease management and prevention aspects of the USFHP, not to mention potentially ending longstanding patient-doctor relationships due to the change in coverage. USFHP is a fully capitated program, providing quality and efficient care to beneficiaries. Even recently, Congress highlighted the effectiveness of USFHP in the 111th DoD authorization bill, while directing DoD to examine opportunities to improve the broader TRICARE Program. Additionally last year the Director of TRICARE Management engaged USFHP to assist in educating the rest of the DoD system about their highly successful prevention and disease management programs. Cong Rec, ER-987, May 24, 2011, Rep. Stark. It does not make sense to waste billions of tax dollars on an already bloated defense department, particularly in our current economic state. This bill is loaded with unnecessary and redundant funding. For example, it calls for the reckless continuation of the V–22 Osprey program, which has killed over 30 Americans in training alone, and whose termination could save us $10–12 billion over the next 10 years. Defense spending currently constitutes almost 60 percent of our discretionary spending. As we are forced to consider cutting important programs that working families depend on, we cannot continue to spend money we do not have—especially on an overly saturated Department of Defense. Americans have voiced their priorities: They want jobs, affordable health care and better education. This Congress must listen. Cong. Rec. ER-987, May 27, 2011, Rep. Blumenauer The bill continues the misguided affront on civil liberties by further stalling the implementation of ‘‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell,’’ and requires that ‘‘marriage’’ for any regulation or benefit program at DoD means only a legal union between one man and one woman. This is a step backwards and unacceptable. It reverses the House victory from earlier this year that finally eliminated the unnecessary alternate engine for the F–35 Joint Strike Fighter. Similarly, the bill continues to fund the Marine Corps’ Expeditionary Fighting Vehicle (EFV) which has also been cited as uneconomical and unwanted by the Secretary of Defense. Embarrassingly, this authorization contains two key provisions that continue to tie the President’s hands by restricting his ability to transfer detainees to the United States for trial in Federal court and to release detainees to countries willing to take them. It is absurd to think that the United States, which currently has thousands of dangerous criminals locked safely behind bars, is incapable of doing the same for terrorists. These provisions continue the Guantanamo quagmire which is ill-advised and a sign of failure at home and to those observing abroad. Cong Rec, ER-957, May 24, 2011, Rep. Quigley. More specifically, I rise in fierce opposition to provisions of this bill which seek to deter and derail the repeal of Don’t-Ask-Don’t-Tell. A repeal, which has been implemented only after the Department of Defense completed a comprehensive review of the issues associated with the repeal. A repeal, which has been implemented only after DOD solicited the views of nearly 400,000 active duty and reserve component Servicemembers. A repeal, which has been implemented only after DOD conducted one of the largest surveys in the history of the U.S. military. Still, we stand here today to consider a measure that demonstrates that this body doesn’t believe that Secretary Gates and Admiral Mullen, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, are right to support the repeal. I believe in our military’s ability to evaluate and make recommendations, and I fully support their plan to implement repeal. Cong Rec, E-1000, May 31, 2011, Rep. Israel. I am very disappointed that H.R. 1540, the Fiscal Year 2012 National Defense Authorization Act, included section 533, which would add a further step on the path to final repeal of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell. It requires that each of the Armed Forces service chiefs approve repeal. While I believe that the input of the military is critical to a smooth transition to open military service, the current process that is already underway to repeal Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell includes significant input from the uniformed military personnel and Defense Department leadership. In fact, under current law, the policy only ends 60 days after the President, Secretary of Defense, and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff approve a Defense Department report confirming that the repeal of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell will not harm military readiness. Section 533 is nothing more than an attempt to delay final repeal.
Apparently, you need to lay off of the 'shrooms. [...] Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs I guess this must be your latest tactic of distraction, linking back to the wrong post. Once again, what you quote is from #76 is not from #77 to which you respond. If this is not intentional, then I am not the one who needs to lay off the 'shrooms. You did not claim Congress passes Amendments. I pointed out that that congress does not, demonstrating the insignificance of your claim that you could (you did not) "cite 'speeches' from the floor of the Senate made in the late 19th century in which the OPINION of a particular Senator, voting in the affirmative, stated that the 14th amendment did not convey birthright citizenship." It is irrelevant to the issue of AUMF for which I produced actual debate of two resolutions. Also, whatever a Senator may blather about congressional intent regarding a constitutional amendment does not carry much weight as the federal congress is not the body that votes whether to ratify an amendment. Others vote on the black letter text presented to them.
I provided unedited debate sessions from the time they started speaking about the AUMF until they moved on to something else. I did so for both houses. That includes about 300 pages and everybody who spoke at the time. I provided a link to the material I cited and quoted. I'll do it again, only better. You are invited to read "the floor speech of one of the 535 members of the US Congress." This "response" to #78 is sad, attempting to ignore #76. If I do not repeat all of it in each post you claim it was never said at all. Enjoy the reread done with extra effort for the completeness you seek. As you are aware, there was very scant floor debate on the 9/18/2001 Resolution. There was a tremendous amount of floor debate about the Iraq AUMF of 2002. You remember, the one about the guy with WMD who was directly linked to al Qaeda, and whose imminent production of nuclear weapons threated to engulf NYC in a mushroom cloud. That guy. And they needed to pass another AUMF to use the troops there. So, as I stated, I don't need the history lesson. What I do need is for you to offer a concise argument that your very narrow interpretation of the AUMF against Al Qaeda is the correct one. Apparently you need another history and law lesson. Congresscritters pass laws. They do not ratify amendments to the Constitution. Acting in their sovereign capacity, the people, not government officials, ratify amendments and breathe life into them. They act based on the black letter text of proposed amendments. The preferred interpretation is in accord with the meaning of the black letter text as understood by the people, upon which they based their ratification. The opinion of a particular Senator, or the entire Congress is not controlling. If the Congress does not like the interpretation by SCOTUS, their only recourse is to propose to the people to change the amendment, because Congress cannot change it or override the SCOTUS interpretation. Congress passes Federal laws, not amendments to the Constitution. But go ahead and humor me and cite the irrelevant speech[es] you say you can cite, but have neither cited nor provided. On the AUMF, I actually posted relevant pages from the Congressional Record on scribd, and linked, cited, and quoted here. Cong-Rec H5632-5633, 09-14-2001, DeFazio, AUMF in Response to Terrorist Attacks Cong Rec H5859-H5862, Pres George W Bush, Address to Nation, 09-20-2001 Cong Rec H7189-H7247, 10-08-2002, AUMF Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 Cong Rec H7268-H7301, 10-08-2002, AUMF Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 Cong Rec, H7706-H7735, 10-09-2002, AUMFAgainst Iraq Resolution of 2002 Cong Rec H7739-H7799, 10-10-2002, AUMF Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 Cong Rec S9948-S9954, 10-01-2001, Use of Force Authority by the President Cong Rec S10063-S1007, 10-08-2002, Presidential Ability to Launch an Attack Cong Rec S10164-S10217, 10-10-2002, AUMF Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 Cong Rec S10233-S10342, 10-10-2002, AUMF Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 Cong Rec S10642-S10645, 10-17-2002, Presidential Ability to Launch an Attack This is the fuller extent of stuff that I quoted from and linked to. - - - Congressional Record, H5859-H5862, President George W Bush Address to Nation, 09-20-2001 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Congressional Record, S9948-S9954 10-01-2001 Use of Force Authority by the President - - - Congressional Record, S10063-S10077, 10-08-2002, Presidential Ability to Launch an Attack - - - - - - - - - Congressional Record, S10642-S10645, 10-17-2002, Presidential Ability to Launch an Attack
I believe this claim is a figment of your imagination, but if you believe I said I believed there were no planes on 9/11, you can produce the link and post it. This claim is a figment of your imagination. I guess it will pass as your best attempt to create a diversion from your other debunked claims that you find yourself unable to defend with any substance. *** C R I C K E T S *** Where is the link to the figment of your imagination?
Thanks for that. And I should regard you as an authority to negate what McCain knows or does not know why again? Oh right...you're that guy on the internet... I've read through the floor speeches of both chambers long prior to this discussion. There are several speakers, in both the House and the Senate, who stated that the war would last years and span several nations for the purpose of eradicating the organization that perpetrated 9/11 not just the perps themselves but Al Qaeda's ability to strike again. There were House members and Senate members who stated this. But, since you kindly provided the Congressional record of those floor debates, I am sure that you are well aware of this and that you omission was to save space. Then again, if you are not so familiar, then I'd suggest that you familiarize yourself with the floor statements made in the House from the moment Rep Lantos was recognized, made his statement and then yielded time. IN speech after speech, the members of Congress, including IIRC, Ron Paul, did not question the authority of the POTUS to wage a retaliatory action under the War Powers Act alone - oddly invoked if we aren't at war but in an armed conflict...and thank you for your redundant euphemism. It reminds me how dealing with lawyers has made me mistrustful of language.
Look, Sebastian, a COCK!!! Let's suck it!!! Luberator posted on 2011-10-11 12:55:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply Oh let's!!! Sebastian posted on 2011-10-11 13:01:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
Since we are discussing the resolution that was passed in 2001, providing a copy of the Congressional Record from 2002 when the debate was regarding Iraq and going to war, er, entering into an armed conflict against them, that "information" is extrinsic and thus spurious. We're discussing the authorization to destroy Al Qaeda and their enablers. Maybe you didn't check the date?
Look, Sebastian, a COCK!!! Let's suck it!!! Luberator posted on 2011-10-11 12:55:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply Oh let's!!! Sebastian posted on 2011-10-11 13:01:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
I believe this claim is a figment of your imagination, but if you believe that you have debunked anything of mine you can produce the link and post it. This claim is a figment of your imagination. [snicker]
Look, Sebastian, a COCK!!! Let's suck it!!! Luberator posted on 2011-10-11 12:55:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply Oh let's!!! Sebastian posted on 2011-10-11 13:01:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
You're repeating back to me what I said...why? And if I linked to the wrong post...excuse me...it wasn't done with malice of forethought... I pointed out that that congress does not, demonstrating the insignificance of your claim that you could (you did not) "cite 'speeches' from the floor of the Senate made in the late 19th century in which the OPINION of a particular Senator, voting in the affirmative, stated that the 14th amendment did not convey birthright citizenship." Is there a cogent thought in there or did you believe that the length of the sentence somehow conveyed its presently missing point? MY point, was that the significance of a single floor speech is nil - especially in light of how the law - or amendment - was subsequently executed or interpreted. It is irrelevant to the issue of AUMF for which I produced actual debate of two resolutions. We are only discussing ONE of those resolutions, btw. Also, whatever a Senator may blather about congressional intent regarding a constitutional amendment does not carry much weight as the federal congress is not the body that votes whether to ratify an amendment. Others vote on the black letter text presented to them. Your point is that the Congress passes out amendments without worry about eh language therein contained? Interesting...
Look, Sebastian, a COCK!!! Let's suck it!!! Luberator posted on 2011-10-11 12:55:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply Oh let's!!! Sebastian posted on 2011-10-11 13:01:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
Because you don't have a clue what you are talking about. Because I cite and quote legal texts of legal authorities and you just babble nonsense. You can make believe you did not see the expert opinions and I can repeat and add to them. See Gary D. Solis, U.S. Military Academy, The Law of Armed Conflict, Cambridge University Press, 2010, paragraph 1.4.1, "The Law of War" or "The Law of Armed Conflict"? at pp. 20-21. See Nils Melzer, Targeted Killing in International Law, Oxford monographs in International Law, Oxford University Press, 2008, reprinted 2010, pp. 246-247. a) From War to Armed Conflict Before the establishment of the United Nations at the end of the Second World War, 'war' was generally understood as a formally declared, and mutually recognized, state of hostility between sovereign States, which found its expression in the application of armed force. Peace and war were not so much factual situations as they were formalized legal conditions to which either the entire law of peace (jus pacis) or, alternatively, the full law of war (jus in bello) applied. [...] [T]he contemporary concept of 'international armed conflict' no longer requires a declaration of war, nor does its existence depend on the willingness of the parties to recognize a state of war. Certainly, in cases where neither hostilities nor any other infringement of foreign sovereignty have taken place, a formal declaration of war still ipso facto gives rise to the applicability of the Geneva Conventions. In all other cases, the existence of an international armed conflict is simply determined by the actual occurrence of unilateral or mutual hostilities, which must express the belligerent intent of one or both parties to the conflict. In practical terms, the existence of an armed conflict obliges the involved parties to respect IHL 'in all circumstances' —regardless of reciprocity— as soon as, and the latest when, hostilities are initiated as a matter of fact. See Melzer, Targeted Killing, pp. 224-225. In other cases, the responsible State may claim to operate under the paradigm of hostilities, without it being clear whether the situation does, in fact, amount to an armed conflict. For example, the targeted killing by the United States of suspected al-Qaida leaders with the agreement of the territorial Governments, such as Qaed Senyan al-Harithi in Yemen (2002) and, allegedly, Haitham ai-Yemeni in Pakistan (2005), as well as the unauthorized attempt by the United States to kill Ayman al-Zawahiri in Pakistan (2006) all took place outside the territorial jurisdiction of the United States and within the context of its 'war on terrorism'. Since the 'war on terrorism' does not, as a whole, amount to an armed conflict, these targeted killings must be governed by the law enforcement paradigm unless they constitute an integral part of hostilities occurring in separate situations of armed conflict. As will be seen, however, even targeted killings occurring within the conduct of hostilities must be governed by the law enforcement paradigm if they are not directed against legitimate military targets. For instance, based on publicly available facts, it is at least doubtful whether the political leader of Hamas, Khalid Mashal (1997), and the organization's wheelchair-bound and half-blind spirirual leader, Sheik Ahmed Yassin (2004), could be regarded as legitimate military targets at the time when Israel launched its operations against them. Unless proven otherwise, both operations would therefore have to be examined under the standards imposed by the law enforcement paradigm. In sum, State-sponsored targeted killing frequently takes place in siruations where the operating State is likely ro question or dispute the applicability of law enforcement standards. Therefore, the conclusion that any targeted killing not directed against a legitimate military target must — 'by default' and regardless of temporal or territorial considerations — comply with the law enforcement paradigm is highly significant for the examination of current State practice under international law. See the condemnation by the international community for an extra-judicial Israeli assassination. UN Security Council S2004-240 (03-24-2004) US Veto re Targeted Killing of Ahmed Yassin European Union, 2572nd Council Meeting, External Relations, Brussels, 22 March 2004, Presse Release 7383/04 (Presse 80), page 8 of 24. MIDDLE EAST – Assassination of Sheikh Ahmed Yassin – Council conclusions “The Council condemned the extra-judicial killing of Hamas leader Sheikh Ahmed Yassin and seven other Palestinians by Israeli forces this morning. The European Union has consistently opposed extra-judicial killings. Not only are extra-judicial killings contrary to international law, they undermine the concept of the rule of law which is a key element in the fight against terrorism. The European Union has repeatedly condemned the terrorist atrocities committed by Hamas which have resulted in the deaths of hundreds of Israelis. The EU recognises Israel's right to protect its citizens against terrorist attacks. Israel is entitled to do this under international law. Israel is not, however, entitled to carry out extra-judicial killings. Furthermore, the assassination which has just been carried out has inflamed the situation. The Council called on all sides to exercise restraint and to refrain from acts of violence, which will only lead to more deaths and will put a peaceful settlement still further from reach. Violence is no substitute for the political negotiations which are necessary for a just and lasting settlement. The Quartet Roadmap remains the basis for reaching such a settlement.” 7383/04 (Presse 80) 8 Even the Defense Authorization Bill that McCain was addressing uses the term armed conflict and not war. Sure you did, and then you had a long and enlightening discussion with your imaginary friends. It is just a shame that you couldn't come up with a single example of your several speakers. Why, I'll just bet half your imaginary friends ran over to the Hague and the other half ran over to Geneva and rewrote all that international law stuff. In speech after speech, which you can't remember, and if you recall correctly, not for example as you falsely claim to recall my denial of jets on 9/11. As for the War Powers Act, I provided you with the full text. If it says somewhere that assassination of American citizens is authorized, and overrides the Constitution and International Law, perhaps you could quote that part. Try the part that says, "Nothing in this joint resolution— (1) is intended to alter the constitutional authority of the Congress or of the President, or the provisions of existing treaties; or (2) shall be construed as granting any authority to the President with respect to the introduction of United States Armed Forces into hostilities or into situations wherein involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances which authority he would not have had in the absence of this joint resolution." Dealing with lawyers made me distrustful of lawyers. Dealing with bullshitters made me think of them as light entertainment.
Had you bothered to read the Iraq resolution or my posts, or had you been able to comprehend them, as the case may be, you could not have missed the relevant information showing your witless comment to be inane. You seem to have forgotten that members of al Qaeda being in Iraq was one of the specific justifications to going into Iraq. http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=24551&Disp=69#C69 Whereas Iraq continues to aid and harbor other international terrorist organizations, including organizations that threaten the lives and safety of American citizens; Since you are running, hiding, ducking, diving, diverting and digressing, and in general just bloviating, I need to explain to you that WE are not just discussing the Authorization for the Use of Military Force (AUMF) of 2001. WE are discussing your pulling out of your ass the claim that an AUMF authorizes assassination of American citizens without their being charged or indicted or convicted of any crime, and without their having been afforded any due process of law, by virtue solely of a secret committee, whose existence was unauthorized by any law, which acted secretly and with secret evidence. You have yet to attempt to address why GWB, the same president, sought and obtained the AUMF of 2002 to go into Iraq. If all the utter nonsense you claim for the AUMF of 2001 were true, there would have been no need to the AUMF of 2002. Also, there would be no need for the crap in the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2011 if that were already part of the AUMF of 2001 and made the president omnipotent and above the Constitution and all other laws.
I believe this claim is a figment of your imagination, but if you believe I said I believed there were no planes on 9/11, you can produce the link and post it. This claim is a figment of your imagination. I guess it will pass as your best attempt to create a diversion from your other debunked claims that you find yourself unable to defend with any substance. - - - I believe this claim is a figment of your imagination, but if you believe that you have debunked anything of mine you can produce the link and post it. This claim is a figment of your imagination. [snicker] Look, Sebastian, a COCK!!! Let's suck it!!! Luberator posted on 2011-10-11 12:55:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply Oh let's!!! Sebastian posted on 2011-10-11 13:01:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply That's the best you can do because you got caught bullshitting again. That's pathetic.
[war #109] Is there a cogent thought in there or did you believe that the length of the sentence somehow conveyed its presently missing point? MY point, was that the significance of a single floor speech is nil - especially in light of how the law - or amendment - was subsequently executed or interpreted. It is irrelevant to the issue of AUMF for which I produced actual debate of two resolutions. We are only discussing ONE of those resolutions, btw. The significance of a floor speech signifying the intended meaning of a piece of legislation may well be used by a court to help determine the intended meaning where the black letter text is not clear. It is of significantly less significance regarding anything in the Constitution. The existence of the AUMF of 2002 is inexplicable if all the miraculous things you allege to be in the AUMF of 2001 are really there. Equally, the desperate grope in the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012 speaks to the nature of your prevarication and bullshit.
That was a connection that was resoundingly rejected. IIRC, the adminstration originally did not seek an AUMF for Iraq. It believed that by making that connection it could use the AUMF from 9/18/01. Few in Congress were fooled and so a spearate case against Saddam had to be made. So, sure then, bring the 2002 AUMF into play. It underscores the reality that the AUMF of 2001 was FOR AL QAEDA. WE are discussing your pulling out of your ass the claim that an AUMF authorizes assassination of American citizens without their being charged or indicted or convicted of any crime, and without their having been afforded any due process of law, by virtue solely of a secret committee, whose existence was unauthorized by any law, which acted secretly and with secret evidence. Nope. What we are discussing is the targeted killing of an enemy who was actively engaged in fomenting and conspiring in acts of war against the US and for which an AUMF had existed for a decade. He happens to be a US citizen. Assassination is a political act. War is killing the enemy. THAT is what we are discussing. Also, there would be no need for the crap in the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2011 if that were already part of the AUMF of 2001 and made the president omnipotent and above the Constitution and all other laws. If you are referring to the detainee language, the SCOTUS had long ago held that the AUMF of 2001 was not justification for tribunals and that it was settled law that such tribunals had to be established by the COngress and not the Commander in Chief.
Look, Sebastian, a COCK!!! Let's suck it!!! Luberator posted on 2011-10-11 12:55:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply Oh let's!!! Sebastian posted on 2011-10-11 13:01:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
What specifically did he do? Isn't that what a court is for. You know innocent until proven guilty. You don't support the presumption of innocence? So go ahead and tell us what specifically he did to warrant assassination? I always ask you when I want the government line.
While I will stipulate that legislative history can be an important tool in judicial interpretation of the meaning of a law, the significance of a single floor speech to that end is hardly an adequate sampling let alone a conclusive one. Mr Lantos: Mr. Speaker, the world is watching these deliberations and is asking: Is the United States up to the challenge? Are we, as a Nation, blessed for so much of our history with peace and prosperity, capable of mounting a costly and concerted campaign against international terror? Let us today answer those doubts with a resounding affirmation. In committing to this fight, let us not delude ourselves. We are embarking on a long and difficult struggle, like none other in our Nation's history. It will demand resolve. It will demand patience. It will demand sacrifice. It will also demand that we draw upon the strength of each and every American. Mr. PAUL. Mr. Speaker, I thank the chairman for yielding me this time. Mr. Speaker, I rise in support of this resolution. Sadly, we find ourselves today dealing with a responsibility to provide national security under the most difficult of circumstances. To declare war against a group that is not a country makes the clear declaration of war more complex. There are a couple of serious points I would like to make. For the critics of our policy of foreign intervention in the affairs of others, the attack on New York and Washington was not a surprise, and many have warned of its inevitability. It so far has been inappropriate to ask why the U.S. was the target and not some other Western country. But for us to pursue a war against our enemies, it is crucial to understand why we were attacked, which will then tell us by whom we were attacked. Without this knowledge, striking out at six or eight or 10 countries will not help. [Begin Insert] Without this knowledge, striking out at six or eight or even ten different countries could well expand this war of which we wanted no part. Without defining the enemy there is no way to know our precise goal nor to know when the war is over. Inadvertent or casual acceptance of civilian deaths as part of this war I'm certain will prolong the agony and increase the chances of even more American casualties. We must guard against this if at all possible. ~~~ Why is Paul acknowledging that this war could expand? Mr. HOEFFEL. Mr. Speaker, I thank the gentleman for yielding me this time. Mr. Speaker, it is very appropriate for this Congress to be granting specific authority to the President to use all necessary and appropriate force against the terrorists that attacked America this week and against those that harbored the terrorists. It is important, I believe, to note that this grant of authority and this purpose of force is to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States. In other words, we are not just engaging in an act of retaliation or revenge, as satisfying as that will be, but we are taking action to prevent this from happening again to save the lives of Americans. The use of force that we authorize today must be used swiftly and surely and smartly. It has been said that this force should be used ferociously. And that is a strong word but an appropriate word under these circumstances. We need to punish the perpetrators of this terrorist activity. We must prevent a recurrence, and we must protect Americans. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Speech after speech acknowledges that this AUMF extends beyond getting the specific perps behind 9/11 but destroying that organization to prevent FUTURE acts.
Because I cite and quote legal texts of legal authorities and you just babble nonsense. You cited one goddam speech. The rest is no better than spam. I wade through your stuff - as extrinsic as most of it may be. Byrd's speech is BUT ONE OF 535. McCain was in that same chamber during that same time and during that same "debate". Oddly, you are dismissive of what McCain stated what he believed was the affect of his "AYE" vote. Why is that? The laws of war and international conflict have evolved as rearward looking exercises based upon, as one of your scholars states, a declared state of hostilities between nations. IN point of fact, most international "law" has not been written and when it is, it's nothing more than rules tailored to previously occurring events. Laws are in place for one reason, to maintain order under threat of sanction. There is no current treaty or law which would internally sanction the act of a US Commander In Chief for what you claim is ignnoring international convention. But, what I claim is not allowing a "law" - of which the current applicability is tenuous - to be a near suicide pact should it be followed to the letter. In this case, the law would sanction the Commander in Chief for protecting the National Security of the US against an organization who does not acknowledge the authority of international law and whose stated goal is the death and destruction of the US. What contortion of logic does it take for a POTUS to justify inaction against a legitimate target because international convention so forbade? Since the issue here is malfeasance versus stretching the envelope of international convention, the security of the nation will be paramount. Dealing with lawyers made me distrustful of lawyers. Dealing with bullshitters made me think of them as light entertainment. Hear hear...
You believe that the planes did not bring down the Towers. You dwell in the land of the Moonbat. You dismissed what I saw and heard and shared...that's close enough for me to make that accusation and if it makes me a bullshitter to a aMoonbat...oh well... I PALE in comparison the the silo load of manure that you're peddling...
Not true. He quoted the constitution. He quoted several laws. He already won when he quoted the constitution. You can't argue around the plain meaning of words found in the Bill of Rights. He really smacked you down when he brought up the excellent point about the burden of proof for an assassination being less then the burden of proof for an indictment or arrest warrant. Like he also mentioned. Why was it a capture or kill order? What were they going to capture him for?
You weren't there. That has already been proven on the thread that you got your ass handed to you. Then you ran off with your tail between your legs.
Stone...you posted a couple of videos. They proved one thing...the unreliability of eyewitnesses under duress. But feel free to tap your ruby slippers together and believe whatever mornic thing that you want to believe...your approval/belief/opinions mean about as much to me as...as...as...geez...I can't even fathom anything that insignificant at this point...
I knew I could count on your for the government line. I guess those people were part of a large conspiracy to say the basement was blown up. You weren't there. They were. You weren't. They know. You don't. They observed it. You spin it.
I posted a link to the cause of the explosion. It was the concussive inflammable result of a very large object exploding in all directions 80+ floors above... When the first plane went in...I thought it was a missile...some thought it was a large plane...others thought it was a small plane and others still thought it was a bomb...the people who thought it was a large plane won and I no longer believe that it was a missile... But go ahead and tap tap tap...
He already won when he quoted the constitution. You can't argue around the plain meaning of words found in the Bill of Rights. Let me explain this to you for the intellectual child that you are: Nolo is arguing that this action was not one undertaken by the POTUS as Commander In Chief but as a civilian executive. If this was the indisputable and accepted standard for the prosecution of this war, armed conflict, or whatever other euphemism you can conjure for military action, then he would have a case and the Bill of Rights would be a proper citation for the limits of an executive's available course of action. In point of fact, the action was undertaken by the POTUS in his role as Commander In Chief charged with not only the general powers necessary to the protection, i.e National Security, of the US from acts of war NO MATTER WHAT THE SOURCE but specifically enabled by the 9/18/01 AUMF that empowered him to stop, destroy or disenable Al Qaeda through all force deemed necessary and appropriate to that end. You've correctly understood, to this point, one element of the discussion: it is based on the USCON. What you fail to grasp is that arguing the powers of the Commander in Chief is a valid constitutional argument as well. The POTUS serves a constitutionally bifurcated role...civilian executive charged with ensuring proper execution of the laws and Commander in Chief charged with commanding the forces necessary and appropriate to ensure the security of the US borders and citizens. Killing an identified enemy who is in command and control most certainly falls within the constitutional parameters of a CIC.
Stay Thirsty My Friends...[some guy in a commercial who claims to not always drink beer but who is always seen drinking beer]
[war #106 IN speech after speech, the members of Congress, including IIRC, Ron Paul, did not question the authority of the POTUS to wage a retaliatory action under the War Powers Act alone You are bullshitting again. [war #116 In committing to this fight, let us not delude ourselves. We are embarking on a long and difficult struggle, like none other in our Nation's history. It will demand resolve. It will demand patience. It will demand sacrifice. It will also demand that we draw upon the strength of each and every American. Mr. PAUL. Mr. Speaker, I thank the chairman for yielding me this time. Mr. Speaker, I rise in support of this resolution. Sadly, we find ourselves today dealing with a responsibility to provide national security under the most difficult of circumstances. To declare war against a group that is not a country makes the clear declaration of war more complex. There are a couple of serious points I would like to make. For the critics of our policy of foreign intervention in the affairs of others, the attack on New York and Washington was not a surprise, and many have warned of its inevitability. It so far has been inappropriate to ask why the U.S. was the target and not some other Western country. But for us to pursue a war against our enemies, it is crucial to understand why we were attacked, which will then tell us by whom we were attacked. Without this knowledge, striking out at six or eight or 10 countries will not help. [Begin Insert] Without this knowledge, striking out at six or eight or even ten different countries could well expand this war of which we wanted no part. Without defining the enemy there is no way to know our precise goal nor to know when the war is over. Inadvertent or casual acceptance of civilian deaths as part of this war I'm certain will prolong the agony and increase the chances of even more American casualties. We must guard against this if at all possible. And what you were doing their merits documentation. HJ Res 27, 107 Cong, 1st Sess, To Repeal the War Powers Act, Ron Paul, (03-06-2001) Ron Paul, 11 Sep 2001, Cong Rec H5511-H5512, Expressing Sense of the Senate and House of Representatives Regarding Terrorist Attacks Launched Against United States Mr. PAUL. Mr. Speaker, I thank the gentleman for yielding me time. Mr. Speaker, yesterday Americans were awakened to find ourselves in a war, attacked by barbarians who targeted innocent civilians. This despicable act reveals how deep-seated is the hatred that has driven this war. Though many Americans have just become aware of how deeply we are involved in this war, it has been going on for decades. We are obviously seen by the terrorists as an enemy. In war there is no more reprehensible act than for combatants to slaughter innocent civilians who are bystanders. That is what happened yesterday. If there is such a thing, a moral war is one that is only pursued in self-defense. Those who initiate aggression against others for the purpose of occupation or merely to invoke death and destruction are unforgivable and serve only to spread wanton killing. In our grief, we must remember our responsibilities. The Congress’ foremost obligation in a constitutional republic is to preserve freedom and provide for national security. Yesterday our efforts to protect our homeland came up short. Our policies that led to that shortcoming must be reevaluated and changed if found to be deficient. When we retaliate for this horror we have suffered, we must be certain that only the guilty be punished. More killing of innocent civilians will only serve to flame the fires of war and further jeopardize our security. Congress should consider using its constitutional authority to grant letters of marque and reprisals to meet our responsibilities. Demanding domestic security in times of war invites carelessness in preserving civil liberties and the right of privacy. Frequently the people are only too anxious for their freedoms to be sacrificed on the alter of authoritarianism thought to be necessary to remain safe and secure. Nothing would please the terrorists more than if we willingly gave up some of our cherished liberties while defending ourselves from their threat. It is our job to wisely choose our policies and work hard to understand the root causes of war in which we find ourselves. We must all pray for peace and ask for God’s guidance for our President, our congressional leaders, and all America, and for the wisdom and determination required to resolve this devastating crisis. Mr. LANTOS. Mr. Speaker, I am honored to yield 2 minutes to the gentleman from Michigan (Mr. DINGELL), the distinguished dean of the House of Representatives. Ron Paul, 14 Sep 2011, Cong Rec H5640, Authorizing Use of United States Armed Forces Against Those Responsible for Recent Attacks Against the United States The parts war left out are indicated by bold blue font. The remarks of Mr. Lantos did not immediately precede the remarks of Mr. Paul as indicated by war in support of his bullshit. The quoted remarks of Mr. Lantos did not appear on the same page as Mr. Paul, and are indicated here in red. war gave no indication that the remarks of Mr. Lantos did not appear as he portrayed them, nor did he indicate that he had edited the remarks of Mr. Paul. The reader may review what was deleted by war to determine for him or herself whether this was purposefully deceitful or not. Mr. LANTOS. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may consume. I rise in strong support of this resolution. This week our Nation lost its innocence but found a new sense of unity and purpose. We now face a severe test, one demanding severe measures. The resolution before us empowers the President to bring to bear the full force of American power abroad in our struggle against the scourge of international words of our Secretary of State, to eradicate terrorism, ‘‘root and branch.’’ The President currently has many powers to deter and prevent international terrorism, including diplomatic pressure, economic measures, military action to stop imminent threats to the people of the United States. Our resolution arms the President with the certain knowledge that he has the full support of the united Congress and the American people in exercising these powers. 1800 In considering this resolution, Mr. Speaker, the historic nature of this occasion cannot be overstated. Precious few times in our 225 years as a Nation have we been faced with such a grave and momentous decision. One need only look at the devastation, the broken bodies, the flood of tears left in the wake of Tuesday’s monstrous terrorist attacks to grasp the awesome responsibility before us. Mr. Speaker, the world is watching these deliberations and is asking: Is the United States up to the challenge? Are we, as a Nation, blessed for so much of our history with peace and prosperity, capable of mounting a costly and concerted campaign against international terror? Let us today answer those doubts with a resounding affirmation. In committing to this fight, let us not delude ourselves. We are embarking on a long and difficult struggle, like none other in our Nation’s history. It will demand resolve. It will demand patience. It will demand sacrifice. It will also demand that we draw upon the strength of each and every American. I am deeply concerned, Mr. Speaker, by reports of violence directed at Arab- Americans and Muslim-Americans, some in my own district. This is not a clash of civilizations or a war between the Western and the Islamic world, as some would have it. It is a struggle for the survival of civilization itself against barbarism. In this struggle, Mr. Speaker, we are not alone. All Americans deeply appreciate the many expressions of sympathy and support from our friends and allies across the globe. We trust that these words will be followed by actions— actions that may prove painful, costly and dangerous. But in the fight against international terrorism, there can be no neutrals. Those who are not with us are against us. Today’s debate is a sign of the unity and vitality of our democracy. All among us are united in our outrage by the tragic events of this week. All among us are united in our commitment to defeat international terrorism. On this we stand undivided and indivisible. If we are to defeat international terrorism, as we must, we must provide our commander in chief with the power this resolution entails. [begin page 5640] In granting the President this power, Congress is not abdicating its prerogatives. We do not weaken our role by approving this measure. By signaling our solidarity with the President and by trusting him with this power, we take our place at his side as full partners in this fight. The President has a solemn responsibility to use this power wisely and to consult with and report to the Congress throughout the long struggle ahead. We in Congress also have an ongoing responsibility: to contribute to these efforts, monitoring the crisis, investigating its causes, gathering expert insights, and doing all in our power to ensure that these terrible events are never repeated. Mr. Speaker, I am an American not by birth but by choice. Following the Second World War, I fled my native Hungary for the United States, the land of the free and the home of the brave. I chose to become a citizen of the Nation that saved my homeland and the entire world from international fascism and, later, from international communism. Today, I proudly reaffirm my allegiance and reenlist in the new struggle to save this Nation and the world from international terrorism. I have never been prouder to serve in the United States Congress than I have during this week. The many words spoken on the floor of this Chamber echo the world over and testify to America’s resilience in the face of adversity. All of my colleagues who join this debate do honor to this institution and to the American people, whom we all serve. But the time for words has passed, Mr. Speaker, and the time for action is upon us. We must now make our rhetoric reality. We must now stand united in word and in deed, and we shall not flinch in the face of terror. Let us go forth, certain in our knowledge that should we cast this courageous vote. We shall prevail. Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of my time. Mr. HYDE. Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to yield 1 minute to the learned gentleman from Texas (Mr. PAUL), but would like to first congratulate the distinguished minority leader of this committee, the gentleman from California (Mr. LANTOS), for his usual superb remarks. Mr. PAUL. Mr. Speaker, I thank the chairman for yielding me this time. Mr. Speaker, I rise in support of this resolution. Sadly, we find ourselves today dealing with a responsibility to provide national security under the most difficult of circumstances. To declare war against a group that is not a country makes the clear declaration of war more complex. The best tool the framers of the Constitution provided under these circumstances was the power of Congress to grant letters of mark and reprisal in order to narrow the retaliation to only the guilty parties. The complexity of the issue, the vagueness of the enemy, and the political pressure to respond immediately limits our choices. The proposed resolution is the only option we are offered, and doing nothing is unthinkable. There are a couple of serious points I would like to make. For the critics of our policy of foreign intervention in the affairs of others, the attack on New York and Washington was not a surprise, and many have warned of its inevitability. It so far has been inappropriate to ask why the U.S. was the target and not some other Western country. But for us to pursue a war against our enemies, it is crucial to understand why we were attacked, which will then tell us by whom we were attacked. Without this knowledge, striking out at six or eight or 10 countries will not help. Without this knowledge, striking out at six or eight or even ten different countries could well expand this war of which we wanted no part. Without defining the enemy there is no way to know our precise goal nor to know when the war is over. Inadvertent or casual acceptance of civilian deaths as part of this war I’m certain will prolong the agony and increase the chances of even more American casualties. We must guard against this if at all possible. Too often over the last several decades we have supported both sides of many wars only to find ourselves needlessly entrenched in conflicts unrelated to our national security. It is not unheard of that the weapons and support we send to foreign nations have ended up being used against us. The current crisis may well be another example of such a mishap. Although we now must fight to preserve our national security, we should not forget that the founders of this great nation advised that for our own sake we should stay out of entangling alliances and the affairs of other nations. We are placing tremendous trust in our President to pursue our enemies as our commander- in-chief but Congress must remain vigilant as to not allow our civil liberties here at home to be eroded. The temptation will be great to sacrifice our freedoms for what may seem to be more security. We must resist this temptation. Mr. Speaker we must rally behind our President, pray for him to make wise decisions, and hope that this crisis is resolved a lot sooner than is now anticipated. Mr. LANTOS. Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to yield 2 minutes to our distinguished colleague, the gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. HOEFFEL). - - - - - - Paul, Potential for War, Cong Rec H232-H236, 02-08-2001
Enough with the spamming.
------------------------------------- When war stops making up facts, I'll stop documenting it. If you don't like it, don't read it. You are always welcome to put me on bozo.
Absolute, total bullshit. I argued that the CIA operatives in charge were civilians. They are not members of the uniformed armed forces. If they are to be considered armed forces, then they committed a war crime as they participated out of military uniform and without displaying any distinctive insignia of the U.S. Armed Forces, which they are not entitled to wear. If they wore the uniform or insignia, then they committed the offense of perfidy. I have not made any argument about what status Obama acted in. However, to clarify, Obama is Commander-in-Chief of the U.S. Armed Forces (The President shall be commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several states, when called into the actual service of the United States) (U.S. Const. Art. 2, Sec 2, Cl 1.) He is NOT the Commander-in-Chief of the United States or its citizenry. He is not Commander-in-Chief of the CIA. His authority as C-in-C is the same as if the nation had chosen to have the senior general be the C-in-C, and he was it. If the hypothetical military general could not do something as C-in-C, neither can Obama in his capacity as C-in-C. Laws evolve and the boundaries of the Laws of War cannot remain static in their application when enemies do not remain static in how they wage war. Don't forget, you are the one who invoked the Laws of War. If the Laws of War have not evolved to your satisfaction, does that mean they may be ignored by the United States, while an American judge participates at The International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, which "has jurisdiction over four clusters of crime committed on the territory of the former Yugoslavia since 1991: grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions, violations of the laws or customs of war, genocide, and crime against humanity?" These trials are ongoing. "The United Nations Security Council called upon the Tribunal to finish its work by 31 December 2014." Under the Laws of War, when one party to a conflict abandons conformance to the Laws of War, an opposing party may equally abandon the same. Under this standard, it would be lawful for al-Qaeda to commit the target killing of President Obama. It may be analgous to the option, under the Laws of War, available to the Confederacy after the Union's failed Dahlgren Raid. Gary D. Solis, The Law of Armed Conflict, Cambridge University Press; 1st edition, February 2010, page 540. Elision as in source. Boldface added. - - - Thanks. And we killed Izzy Yamamoto... - - - [nc #34] Please show where AUMF pertains to anything other than military force in combat? How do you translate it to non-military force engaged in assassination? Do you really find the status of American/Yemini citizen Al-Aulaqi comparable to that of Admiral (Japanese Naval General) Yamamoto? - - - [war #37] Please cite your authority for claiming that a) the resolution requires that all military actions be "combat" when the resolution clearly states "all necessary and appropriate force" and that command and control structures and personnel would be immune from any type of military strike or that b) a drone attack is not "military force"? And please don't cite wikipedia as being some sort of authority. Thanks. Permit me to give a fuller exploration of your Izzy Yamamoto remark with a quote from competent legal authority. See Yoram Dinstein, The Conduct of Hostilities under the Law of International Armed Conflict, Second Edition, Cambridge University Press, 2010, pp. 103-104. As for your CIA led drone strike, see Vincent-Joël Proulx, If the Hat Fits Wear It, If the Turban Fits, Run for your Life: Reflections on the Indefinite Detention and Targeted Killing of Suspected Terrorists, Hastings Law Journal, Volume 56, 2004-2005, page 888, discussing the targeted killing, by drone strike, of Mullah Mohammed Omar. In this case it is much more than likely that CIA operatives coordinated the targeted killings. Such has been stated to be the fact.
He isn't spamming. He is documenting. Crossing his T's and dotting his I's. He is thorough.
Stop making believe you can either read my mind or accurately recall a damn thing I have written but you cannot cite or quote. You dwell in the land of the Bullshitter. I believe in the Laws of Physics. I do not know what the cause of the building coming down was. When someone rationally explains, within the Laws of Physics, how gravity alone can cause a 110-story vertical collapse, with pulverization or powderization occurring on the way down, and complete the process in less than 10 seconds, I will have something to believe. Regarding 7WTC, it has been proven and admitted that it fell a considerable distance at gravitational acceleration. This is impossible unless there was no resistance from below. The events are not satisfactorily explained. What I really said. http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=24854&Disp=2#C2 That was the disproved government conspiracy theory. It is the so-called conspiracy theorists who were proven correct. This disproved pancake theory was officially declared dead. The pancake theory failed to survive the expert critics who pointed out why it was physically impossible. It would be impossible to collapse the building in ten seconds. There would be no pulverizing in mid-air on the way down. The law of conservation of momentum would have to be repealed. And, of course, to cause a vertical fall, hundreds of connectors on each floor would need to fail simultaneously. And, of course, the near free fall speed required the lower floor to enter downward motion before the upper floor reached it. http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm Answers to Frequently Asked Questions (NIST NCSTAR throughout this document refers to one of the 43 volumes that comprise NIST’s final report on the WTC Towers issued in October 2005. All sections of the report listed in this document are available at http://wtc.nist.gov.) [...] 2. Why did NIST not consider a “controlled demolition” hypothesis with matching computer modeling and explanation as it did for the “pancake theory” hypothesis? A key critique of NIST’s work lies in the complete lack of analysis supporting a “progressive collapse” after the point of collapse initiation and the lack of consideration given to a controlled demolition hypothesis. NIST conducted an extremely thorough three-year investigation into what caused the WTC towers to collapse, as explained in NIST’s dedicated Web site, http://wtc.nist.gov. This included consideration of a number of hypotheses for the collapses of the towers. Some 200 technical experts—including about 85 career NIST experts and 125 leading experts from the private sector and academia—reviewed tens of thousands of documents, interviewed more than 1,000 people, reviewed 7,000 segments of video footage and 7,000 photographs, analyzed 236 pieces of steel from the wreckage, performed laboratory tests and sophisticated computer simulations of the sequence of events that occurred from the moment the aircraft struck the towers until they began to collapse. Based on this comprehensive investigation, NIST concluded that the WTC towers collapsed because: (1) the impact of the planes severed and damaged support columns, dislodged fireproofing insulation coating the steel floor trusses and steel columns, and widely dispersed jet fuel over multiple floors; and (2) the subsequent unusually large jet-fuel ignited multi-floor fires (which reached temperatures as high as 1,000 degrees Celsius) significantly weakened the floors and columns with dislodged fireproofing to the point where floors sagged and pulled inward on the perimeter columns. This led to the inward bowing of the perimeter columns and failure of the south face of WTC 1 and the east face of WTC 2, initiating the collapse of each of the towers. Both photographic and video evidence—as well as accounts from the New York Police Department aviation unit during a half-hour period prior to collapse—support this sequence for each tower. NIST’s findings do not support the “pancake theory” of collapse, which is premised on a progressive failure of the floor systems in the WTC towers (the composite floor system—that connected the core columns and the perimeter columns— consisted of a grid of steel “trusses” integrated with a concrete slab; see diagram below). Instead, the NIST investigation showed conclusively that the failure of the inwardly bowed perimeter columns initiated collapse and that the occurrence of this inward bowing required the sagging floors to remain connected to the columns and pull the columns inwards. Thus, the floors did not fail progressively to cause a pancaking phenomenon. [...]
You have provided none. I am dismissive of McCain's comment ten years later while addressing funding for his own partisan purposes because it is directly contrary to law, and I quoted several legal authorities to that effect. You pull your claims out of your butt and when challenged to support them, you cannot or will not. We participate in the execution or incarceration of people based precisely on the laws you deny to exist. They exist, but nobody can enforce them against our C-in-C, so we ignore them while we invoke them against the smaller and less powerful. Remember, you are the one who invoked the Laws of War. The US is engaged in an authorized military action against Al Qaeda. That is indisuputable. It would, therefore, stand the laws and resolutions regarding armed conflict to disregard any member of an enemy organization who has direct knowledge of its terrorist operations and who also encourages those same operations to be regarded as a civilian rather than some form of combatant. It not only strains credulity of the laws of war but of common sense as well. Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Unfortunately, your version of the Laws of War cannot be quoted from legal authority but only pulled out of your butt by the steaming pantload. Laws evolve and the boundaries of the Laws of War cannot remain static in their application when enemies do not remain static in how they wage war. Don't forget, you are the one who invoked the Laws of War. If the Laws of War have not evolved to your satisfaction, does that mean they may be ignored by the United States, while an American judge participates at The International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, which "has jurisdiction over four clusters of crime committed on the territory of the former Yugoslavia since 1991: grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions, violations of the laws or customs of war, genocide, and crime against humanity?" These trials are ongoing. "The United Nations Security Council called upon the Tribunal to finish its work by 31 December 2014." Under the Laws of War, when one party to a conflict abandons conformance to the Laws of War, an opposing party may equally abandon the same. Under this standard, it would be lawful for al-Qaeda to commit the target killing of President Obama. It may be analgous to the option, under the Laws of War, available to the Confederacy after the Union's failed Dahlgren Raid. Gary D. Solis, The Law of Armed Conflict, Cambridge University Press; 1st edition, February 2010, page 540. Elision as in source. Boldface added.
You stating that I am "making up facts" does not make it so. Frankly, you ARE spamming, You throw a line or two in with little to absolutely no cogent reference to anything that I have posted and then provide "authority" with absolutely no cross referencing to how it is supposed to fit into the discussion. I went one round with you previously on Lincoln and his blockade which you claimed violated a treaty with Mexico. You did the same thing., i.e. you did one or all of a) ignored the counter argument, b) dismissed it as a "pantload" and/or provided voluminous materials most of which were extrinsic to the discussion. Sound familiar? You've done the same here. You've not made the case in any way, shape or recognizable form that this targeted killing of a high value military target was extra-legal. You've not made the case in any way, shape or recognizable form that the ongoing war against Al Qaeda violates the AUMF of 9/18/01. Arguing against a state's assertion of self-defense as justification for targeted killing is that "this type of practice is incompatible with international law, which categorically prohibits extra-judicial executions..."98 Human rights organizations hold that "suspected terrorists should be detained and put on trial before they can lawfully be punished for their actions.... To kill under these circumstances is simply execution — but carried out without any trial or proof of guilt."99 Did you actually READ the entire section from which you culled this one snippet? My guess is that apparently you did not... Read page 542.
Stay Thirsty My Friends...[some guy in a commercial who claims to not always drink beer but who is always seen drinking beer]
Comments (133 - 179) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestApparently you need another history and law lesson. Congresscritters pass laws. They do not ratify amendments to the Constitution.
#94. To: nolu chan (#78)
#95. To: A K A Stone, Fred Mertz (#91)
#96. To: A K A Stone (#91)
"First watch your mouth or I will take out the trash."
#97. To: A K A Stone (#92)
"So you support the star chamber. Murder of American citizens. Got ya witch."
#98. To: war, A K A Stone (#90)
And stop censoring people,
#99. To: war (#90)
And stop censoring people,
#100. To: Sebastian (#0)
#101. To: war (#37)
[war #33] Please show me where "appropriate force" means "Shoot but not kill".
To give a more pointed edge to the legal position, it may be useful to compare two prominent instances of targeting enemy individuals in the course of World War II. In 1943, the US targeted the Commander-in-Chief of the Japanese Fleet, Admiral Yamamoto, whose plane was ambushed (subsequent to the successful breaking of the Japanese communication codes) and shot down over Bougainville.635 This was a faultless targeted killing. In contrast, the ambush of the car of SS General Heydrich in 1942 amounted to an exercise in unlawful combatancy. Heydrich — as a military officer — was a lawful target, just like Yamamoto. Still, the act constituted unlawful combatancy, since Heydrich was killed by members of the Free Czechoslovak army (parachuted from London) who were not wearing uniforms (see supra 99)636
Moreover, the fact that CIA operatives are most likely to coordinate targeted killings using the drone is also problematic. Since these operatives themselves do not conform to the laws of war, by failing to wear distinctive insignia and by not carrying arms openly, they may be subject to prosecution for war crimes.
#102. To: war (#94)
[war #94] Senator McCain:
What is "war"? Wars on drugs, on poverty, and on illiteracy are laudable political constructs but are not literally wars, of course. A state of war has wide-ranging repercussions in contracts, insurance, constitutional issues, neutrality, and governmental wartime emergency powers, not to mention the life and death issues played out on the battlefield. The "War on Terrorism" is not a war in the sense of Geneva Convention common Article 2 … not all armed conflicts are wars, but all wars are armed conflicts."
1.1. International Armed Conflict
SEC. 1034. AFFIRMATION OF ARMED CONFLICT WITH AL-QAEDA, THE TALIBAN, AND ASSOCIATED FORCES.
(1) the United States is engaged in an armed conf1ict with al-Qaeda) the Taliban) and associated forces and that those entities continue to pose a threat to the United States and its citizens, both domestically and abroad;
(A) are part of, or are substantially supporting, al-Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces that are engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners; or
Mr. VAN HOLLEN. Mr. Chair, this will be the first time that I have voted against a Defense Authorization Act and I do so with great reluctance. But I also do so with confidence that it is the right decision.
Mr. INSLEE. Mr. Chair, I rise today to express my concern over a provision in the National Defense Authorization Act of 2012 that would limit the access of certain military retirees to the TRICARE Uniformed Services Family Health Plan (USFHP).
Mr. STARK. Mr. Chair, I rise today in opposition to H.R. 1540, the National Defense Authorization Act.
The bill authorizes $690.1 billion for defense programs in FY12. This level of defense spending is almost as much as the rest of the world combined—most of which is done by friendly allies such as NATO (approximately $350 billion). It also includes an additional $118.9 billion in specific funds for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan without a plan for a full redeployment from the region. I am disappointed that amendments to require a rapid and thoughtful withdrawal from Afghanistan were not approved. For me, this is reason enough not to support this legislation.
Mr. QUIGLEY. Mr. Chair, I rise today in opposition to H.R. 1540, the National Defense Authorization Act for FY 2012.
Mr. ISRAEL. Mr. Speaker, last year, the House of Representatives approved historic legislation that repealed the Defense Department policy known as ‘‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.’’ For too long, this discriminatory policy forced many patriotic Americans who wanted to serve their nation to decide against military service, lie about their sexual orientation, or leave the military against their will. It was shameful that Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell was allowed to continue for so many years, and it gave me tremendous pride to support the policy’s repeal last year.
#103. To: war (#93)
#93. To: nolu chan (#77)
Apparently you need another history and law lesson. Congresscritters pass laws. They do not ratify amendments to the Constitution.
#104. To: war (#94)
[war #94] You've posted the floor speech of one of 535 members of the US Congress. Do you have 534 more stating that they share Byrd's opinion as to what was passed on 9/18/01.
#76. To: war (#73)
I can cite "speeches" from the floor of the Senate made in the late 19th century in which the OPINION of a particular Senator, voting in the affirmative, stated that the 14th amendment did not convey birthright citizenship. You and I both **know** that it does in fact so convey.
#105. To: war (#80)
Oh...I forgot...you don't believe that there were planes...and that my own eyes and ears deceived me..."figments of my imagination" is what I believe you called them...
#106. To: nolu chan (#102)
(Edited)
As for the McCain claim that "[w]e are at war with Al Qaeda and its affiliates," we are not at war. We are engaged in an armed conflict. McCain's misstatement does not change international law. He's the one who said Iran was training al Qaeda operatives and sang Bomb, bomb, Iran.
#107. To: nolu chan (#104)
(Edited)
#108. To: nolu chan (#105)
I guess it will pass as your best attempt to create a diversion from your other debunked claims t
#109. To: nolu chan (#103)
You did not claim Congress passes Amendments.
#110. To: war (#106)
[war 106] Thanks for that. And I should regard you as an authority to negate what McCain knows or does not know why again? Oh right...you're that guy on the internet...
What is "war"? Wars on drugs, on poverty, and on illiteracy are laudable political constructs but are not literally wars, of course. A state of war has wide-ranging repercussions in contracts, insurance, constitutional issues, neutrality, and governmental wartime emergency powers, not to mention the life and death issues played out on the battlefield. The "War on Terrorism" is not a war in the sense of Geneva Convention common Article 2 … not all armed conflicts are wars, but all wars are armed conflicts."
1.1. International Armed Conflict
Extraterritorial targeted killings which clearly were not directed against legitimate military targets, and must therefore be examined under the law enforcement paradigm include… .
22.03.2004
I've read through the floor speeches of both chambers long prior to this discussion.
There are several speakers, in both the House and the Senate, who stated that the war would last years and span several nations for the purpose of eradicating the organization that perpetrated 9/11 not just the perps themselves but Al Qaeda's ability to strike again.
There were House members and Senate members who stated this. But, since you kindly provided the Congressional record of those floor debates, I am sure that you are well aware of this and that you omission was to save space.
IN speech after speech, the members of Congress, including IIRC, Ron Paul, did not question the authority of the POTUS to wage a retaliatory action under the War Powers Act alone - oddly invoked if we aren't at war but in an armed conflict...and thank you for your redundant euphemism. It reminds me how dealing with lawyers has made me mistrustful of language.
#111. To: war (#107)
Since we are discussing the resolution that was passed in 2001, providing a copy of the Congressional Record from 2002 when the debate was regarding Iraq and going to war, er, entering into an armed conflict against them, that "information" is extrinsic and thus spurious. We're discussing the authorization to destroy Al Qaeda and their enablers.
In 2002, President George W. Bush sought authorization to use military force against Iraq. The resulting joint resolution contained the following:
Whereas , an organization bearing responsibility for attacks on the United States, its citizens, and interests, including the attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, ;
#112. To: war (#108)
Oh...I forgot...you don't believe that there were planes...and that my own eyes and ears deceived me..."figments of my imagination" is what I believe you called them...
#108. To: nolu chan (#105)
I guess it will pass as your best attempt to create a diversion from your other debunked claims t
#113. To: war (#109)
[nc 103] I pointed out that that congress does not, demonstrating the insignificance of your claim that you could (you did not) "cite 'speeches' from the floor of the Senate made in the late 19th century in which the OPINION of a particular Senator, voting in the affirmative, stated that the 14th amendment did not convey birthright citizenship."
#114. To: nolu chan (#111)
Had you bothered to read the Iraq resolution or my posts, or had you been able to comprehend them, as the case may be, you could not have missed the relevant information showing your witless comment to be inane. You seem to have forgotten that members of al Qaeda being in Iraq was one of the specific justifications to going into Iraq.
#115. To: war (#114)
What we are discussing is the targeted killing of an enemy who was actively engaged in fomenting and conspiring in acts of war against the US
#116. To: nolu chan (#113)
(Edited)
The significance of a floor speech signifying the intended meaning of a piece of legislation may well be used by a court to help determine the intended meaning where the black letter text is not clear.
#117. To: nolu chan (#110)
(Edited)
Because you don't have a clue what you are talking about.
#118. To: nolu chan (#112)
That's the best you can do because you got caught bullshitting again. That's pathetic.
#119. To: war (#117)
You cited one goddam speech
#120. To: war (#118)
You dismissed what I saw and heard and shared.
#121. To: A K A Stone (#120)
#122. To: war (#121)
#123. To: A K A Stone (#122)
I guess those people were part of a large conspiracy to say the basement was blown up.
#124. To: A K A Stone (#119)
(Edited)
Not true. He quoted the constitution. He quoted several laws.
#125. To: war, A K A Stone, Liberator (#116)
Mr Lantos: Mr. Speaker, the world is watching these deliberations and is asking: Is the United States up to the challenge? Are we, as a Nation, blessed for so much of our history with peace and prosperity, capable of mounting a costly and concerted campaign against international terror? Let us today answer those doubts with a resounding affirmation.
Mr. SMITH of New Jersey. Mr. Speaker, I yield 2 minutes to the distinguished gentleman from Texas (Mr. PAUL).
[page 5639, beginning in column 2 of 3]
#126. To: nolu chan (#125)
Why don't you make like a tree and get out of here?
#127. To: Biff Tannen (#126)
#128. To: war, A K A Stone (#124)
Nolo is arguing that this action was not one undertaken by the POTUS as Commander In Chief but as a civilian executive.
#88. To: war (#85)
Don't forget, you are the one who invoked the Laws of War.
Arguing against a state's assertion of self-defense as justification for targeted killing is that "this type of practice is incompatible with international law, which categorically prohibits extra-judicial executions..."98 Human rights organizations hold that "suspected terrorists should be detained and put on trial before they can lawfully be punished for their actions.... To kill under these circumstances is simply execution — but carried out without any trial or proof of guilt."99
#101. To: war (#37)
[war #33] Please show me where "appropriate force" means "Shoot but not kill".
To give a more pointed edge to the legal position, it may be useful to compare two prominent instances of targeting enemy individuals in the course of World War II. In 1943, the US targeted the Commander-in-Chief of the Japanese Fleet, Admiral Yamamoto, whose plane was ambushed (subsequent to the successful breaking of the Japanese communication codes) and shot down over Bougainville.635 This was a faultless targeted killing. In contrast, the ambush of the car of SS General Heydrich in 1942 amounted to an exercise in unlawful combatancy. Heydrich — as a military officer — was a lawful target, just like Yamamoto. Still, the act constituted unlawful combatancy, since Heydrich was killed by members of the Free Czechoslovak army (parachuted from London) who were not wearing uniforms (see supra 99)636
Moreover, the fact that CIA operatives are most likely to coordinate targeted killings using the drone is also problematic. Since these operatives themselves do not conform to the laws of war, by failing to wear distinctive insignia and by not carrying arms openly, they may be subject to prosecution for war crimes.
#129. To: Biff Tannen (#126)
#130. To: war (#118)
[war #118] You believe that the planes did not bring down the Towers. You dwell in the land of the Moonbat.
#2. To: continental op (#0)
[Alexander Cockburn] No, shout the conspiracists, they “pancaked” because Dick Cheney’s agents–scores of them–methodically planted demolition charges in the preceding days inserting the explosives in the relevant floors of three vast buildings, (moving day after day among the unsuspecting office workers), then on 9/11 activating the detonators. It was a conspiracy of thousands, all of whom–party to mass murder–have held their tongues ever since.
National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) Federal Building and Fire Safety Investigation of the World Trade Center Disaster
#131. To: war (#117)
Byrd's speech is BUT ONE OF 535. McCain was in that same chamber during that same time and during that same "debate". Oddly, you are dismissive of what McCain stated what he believed was the affect of his "AYE" vote. Why is that?
There is no current treaty or law which would internally sanction the act of a US Commander In Chief for what you claim is ignnoring international convention.
#43. To: nolu chan (#42) (Edited)
In point of fact he was not a combatant.
#88. To: war (#85)
Don't forget, you are the one who invoked the Laws of War.
Arguing against a state's assertion of self-defense as justification for targeted killing is that "this type of practice is incompatible with international law, which categorically prohibits extra-judicial executions..."98 Human rights organizations hold that "suspected terrorists should be detained and put on trial before they can lawfully be punished for their actions.... To kill under these circumstances is simply execution — but carried out without any trial or proof of guilt."99
#132. To: nolu chan (#127)
(Edited)
When war stops making up facts, I'll stop documenting it. If you don't like it, don't read it. You are always welcome to put me on bozo.
.
.
.
[Home] [Headlines] [Latest Articles] [Latest Comments] [Post] [Mail] [Sign-in] [Setup] [Help] [Register]