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Title: The Electric Car Nightmare
Source:
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URL Source: http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article30619.html
Published: Sep 26, 2011
Author: Andrew_McKillop
Post Date: 2011-09-26 14:12:16 by Capitalist Eric
Keywords: None
Views: 109371
Comments: 247
Electric car and low carbon energy boomers from Carlos Ghosn of Renault-Nissan and Dan Akerson of GM, to Sir Richard Branson, Al Gore, James Lovelock, Stewart Brand and a host of other promoters of the politically correct future never lose a chance preaching massive numbers of all electric cars in the national car fleets of every developed country by around 2020. To be sure, what "massive" means is variable geometry - it could be just a few million cars, it might be more and they hope out loud, a lot more. Ghosn says his firm will be able to crank out 1 million-a-year Leaf-type family electric saloons "by 2015", and much more after that. Other major car making chiefs like Akerson, and the chiefs of emerging giant automakers in China and India are less sure, or more cautious, but say they could easily match anything Renault-Nissan can do "within 10 or 15 years" if the market demand - and above all the government subsidies - are there. Ghosn thinks out loud that French and other European governments will jumpstart the electric car flood by handing out subsidies of up to 7000 euro on each electric car. For 1 million-a-year that would be a cool 7 billion euro-a-year tinkling through Renault-Nissan cash registers, handed out by generous, but unfortunately stony broke European governments. Is that credible ? Is that sustainable ? We also need to believe there will be magic scientific breakthroughs with electric car batteries, making them cheaper, easier and faster to charge, have longer life times, and not flake out after a few hundred recharges in fast charge mode, using high voltage and high amperage charging instead of regular home voltage plug-in charging at a mere 5 kW a time. We will hope, with the car industry, that rare earth element supply will keep up with mass production of electric cars (needing strange expensive metals like neodymium for electric motor magnets), noting that present world supply is at present about 95 percent sourced from China, which does not intend to raise production, but cut it. We will suppose that battery swapping problems will be solved: each electric car in the hoped-for new and massive all electric car fleets of Europe, the US, Japan, China and India will need as many as 3 batteries, at around 12 000 euro each, to keep the cars running 24/7. Funky highway swap stations run by Better Place and other new entrant, nice business model players will look after this, we are told, backed by supposedly serious banks - seriously close to failure and needing new and massive bailouts of public cash again - like HSBC which arranged $ 350 million of loans for Better Place. ITS NIGHTTIME AND WINTER We are imagining all those problems were solved - and the electric power nightmare is now certain. If the electric car future happens - if the things are built and operated in the numbers that the boomers dream about in public - we are almost sure to get massive electric power system failures. Power down. Lights out. System breakdown. Take the case of Europe. Say the boomers' dream came true in Europe, with its all-green low carbon energy quest written into the laws and regulations of all 27 member states since December 2008. This says at least 20 percent of all energy in Europe must be renewable by 2020, and also that energy demand per unit economic output will be cut by 20 percent: energy economy will be promoted by all means, including cuts in transport energy demand. In Europe's cities of 2020, the European Commission says, the public will love bicycles, electric trams, electric trains and gas powered buses - and will adore electric cars. Road and land transport presently takes about 7.8 million barrels a day, or one-half of all oil consumed in Europe. Replacing even a tiny part of that with biofuels is such a no-no that the first target of replacing oil in transport, of 10 percent by 2020 (not even 20 percent, you note) was cut to 5.6 percent a few months after the December 2008 European low carbon quest was announced. This new modest 5.6 percent goal could itself be cut even further. So the natural solution is: electric cars, recharged by windmills and solar power stations in those glitzy powerpoint shows on a host of European Union Web sites. Who cares if its not possible ? THE NIGHMARE COMES By 2020, lets suppose a massive 8 percent of Europe's car fleet is "all electric". To be sure, that 8 percent doesnt seem massive to normal persons,but if we supposed the European car fleet didn't grow by one single unit from 2011, from today's count of about 210 million cars, that would make about 16 million all electrics needing very regular charging, on Europe's roads in the year 2020. These 16 million all electric cars on Europe's roads would need about 5 kW when their batteries are recharged. As we know already from user and driver studies for electric car owners they have a paranoid and constant fear of running out of juice. They compulsively recharge the battery whenever it shows even a slight fall of its charge. They like fast charge high power battery boosting (440 volt triphase current), when it is available - despite it being very bad for battery life. Supposedly, again according to Ghosn of Renault-Nissan, high power booster charging will be made available in "hundreds of cities", in France at some undefined date, hinting that generous green-minded president Sarkozy will look after the problem of who will pay for that. So its Sunday evening in winter in Europe, in the year 2020. Everybody with an electric car is worrying about their Monday morning crawl-in to work on those 8-lane highways with thousands of other drivers making it to work, at an average 10 miles-per-hour in their non-electric cars able to hit 100 miles-per-hour. In those urban daily crawl-ins the recommended battery stretching maximum cruise speed of about 40 miles-per-hour for electric cars is not such problem - but the battery charging mania is. Like we already know, electric cars are quiet, accelerate fast if the battery is charged, and as long as you dont run the heater and de-icer in winter or airconditioning in summer, the wipers, the headlamps, the in-car stereo, the GPS, telephone, computer and other power-consuming needs and gimmicks, you might get 100 miles with a fully charged battery, if you run economic for the last 30 or 40 miles of the charge, at a speed of 25 or 30 miles-per-hour. And that only costs about 35 000 euro for a Leaf ! HOW DO WE CHARGE THE THINGS ? Running real sweet and low, that is slow and economical in the daily crawl-in to work should not be a problem for proud owners of planet saving all electrics, but funny thing, Carlos Ghosn and Dan Akerson, and all the other boomers and promoters never say that. Our problem is that its Sunday night in winter, in Europe in 2020, and there are 16 million all electric cars out there to charge at 5 kW each. Its cold, the wind is not blowing so you can forget about windmills (Europe proudly has about 45 percent of the world's entire windfarm capacity, as of early 2011), and its nighttime, so those expensive solar power plants are also off-line. We will however be generous, and imagine that only 80 percent of the European all electric car fleet is going to be on charge at those somber moments. Say 13 million plugged in and needing 5 kW for 5 hours, to charge their big, heavy, low power storage capacity (able to store about the energy equivalent of 1 US gallon of fuel), and very expensive batteries. Down at Better Place and its highway battery swap station clones, imagine what they are doing on Sunday nights ? Charging batteries. To be sure, the electric car boomers never get on to how we supply the power, but we will. Charging 13 million cars, some 80 percent of a massive 8 percent of Europe's car fleet number of today, will make it necessary to find 5 x 13 million kilowatts of additional power. That is 65 million kilowatts of power. In the electricity business they talk megawatts, so the need is 65 000 MW. One way to understand what that means: in Carlos Ghosn's soft touch France of Nicolar Sarkozy, its much vaunted nuclear power programme - supplying the most national nuclear electric power in the world - has a total of 58 nuclear reactors with a combined total capacity of around 63 600 MW. That is if all of them could run at full power simultaneously - which they can't. It took France around 40 years to build up that 63 600 MW of nuclear capacity, we can add. So one way we could or might charge up a lot less than 8 percent of the European car fleet would be to build 65 000 MW of new electric power capacity. Since that in fact is not going to be possible - electric car owners will need to be told to not use their electric cars and use one or other of their family fleet of good old thermal-type cars, or take a day off, use bicycles or buses, work at home, or give up working entirely - after all, they are saving the planet by preventing global warming catastrophe ! Otherwise, it is easy to forecast what happens when around 13 million all electric cars plug-in simultaneously. We get total system overload, large area power cuts, and possible long term damage to overused power grids, transformer stations, and electrical equipment as power surges and collapses with the onslaught of demand. AND WHAT WOULD IT COST ? What would it cost to charge the hoped for mass market electric car fleets of 2020 ? This depends on how you do it. If we choose either offshore windfarms or nuclear power to do it, we have per-kilowatt capital costs of around 6000 euro in Europe. This is based on German, UK, Danish and other offshore windfarm construction and projects, and French EPR nuclear power plants being cumbersomely, slowly and expensively built at two-only locations in Europe (Finland, France). Each electric car costing the state 7000 euro in government hand-outs, would therefore also need about 30000 euro of invstment in new wind or nuclear power plants to handle its 5 kW power demand (and 3 times more if its needs 15 kW high charge boosting). The time limit would also be problem, but because we are discussing pure fantasy schemes and childish daydreams that does not matter. For amusement purposes, we could compare that 37000 euro total of subsidies-plus-power plant capacity needs, with the the lifetime average fuels costs of a normal thermal-type automobile - about 1600 litres of fuel, or 10 barrels, each year of its operating life. To be sure, $200-a-barrel oil, the favourite scary oil price forecast of Carlos Ghosn and Sir Richard Branson, would help make the electric car seem just a little less vanity tech. If we are talking solar power plants, plus nighttime storage of electricity able to supply 65 000 MW on demand the costs are so far out - if it was technically possible - there is no need even imagining them. We end up with a simple readout: we would need coal or gas power plants, but again for amusement purposes, we can give a price tag for charging less than 8 percent of Europe's fantasy fleet of all electric cars in the year 2020 using "low carbon" nuclear or offshore wind power. At 6000 euro per kilowatt, and 6 billion euro for 1000 MW of power generating capacity, we find that for 65 000 MW the spending need would be 378 billion euro. At a mere 1500 euro per kilowatt for coal fired plants with CCS, the price tag would only be around 95 billion euro - but who is going to pay ? IT WONT HAPPEN Welcome to the "all electric" car future - that will not happen. If it did, there would be a permanent threat of total breakdown for national, or even continental power grids in the European case. Anybody who believes in that "ecological" future is just plain stupid or too lazy to work out a few simple numbers.
Poster Comment: "Anybody who believes in that "ecological" future is just plain stupid or too lazy to work out a few simple numbers..." ***AHEM*** Paging goober56, Rat-boy mike, loonymom/whining-old, calCON and the REST of the stupid, lazy leftists on this forum... LOL.
Paging goober56, Rat-boy mike, loonymom/whining-old, calCON and the REST of the stupid, lazy leftists on this forum...
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#191. To: war (#188)
WHAT "point" did she make? She scraped a bunch of stuff off the ground, tossed it into a mixing bowl and called what came out of the oven a "cake." Sorry, it just wasn't.
"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama
To call you insane is insulting to the insane. You're insane x 1000.
"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama
Sorry, it just wasn't. So you just jumped in without reading the whole thread....Typical
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
I see you're huddling behind your Saul Alinsky type innuendo again. Why don't you refute it if you can.
Keep in mind that the person hurling that invective is a regular poster at LP...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
Talking over your head again, is she.
"You post articles- intellectual excrement, really- that support your inane, insipid mentality, on a regular basis. Capitalist Eric
That's because you understood it.
"You post articles- intellectual excrement, really- that support your inane, insipid mentality, on a regular basis. Capitalist Eric
He wasn't big on diversity as I recall.
"You post articles- intellectual excrement, really- that support your inane, insipid mentality, on a regular basis. Capitalist Eric
To refute it, he'd have to understand it.
"You post articles- intellectual excrement, really- that support your inane, insipid mentality, on a regular basis. Capitalist Eric
It is not necessary to "refute" that which is obviously untrue. You're delusional, it's as simple as that.
DUMMY DwarF: ...I'm eating a meatball... http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=24347&Disp=35#C35 Yup. That's all she's really good for... Do NOT expect her to actually think beyond her knee-jerk talking points... she just can't bring herself to make the transition to logic and common-sense... LMAO!
DUMMY DwarF: ...I'm eating a meatball... http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=24347&Disp=35#C35 "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Mark Twain
"You post articles- intellectual excrement, really- that support your inane, insipid mentality, on a regular basis. Capitalist Eric
Does your hairline hide your lobotomy scars?
DUMMY DwarF: ...I'm eating a meatball... http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=24347&Disp=35#C35 I'm not a Tea Bagger,but what is a "progressive" like you that wants a return to the 1920's in Russia doing making slurs against homosexuals? To the Gulag with you! After a proper stay in a mental hospital,of course.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
In AMERICA,it means you follow the founders of this country and promote maximum individual freedoms while keeping a close eye and a short chain on the necessary evil that is government. The result was the Bill of Rights that RECOGNIZE rights mankind is born with and puts limits on the power of government. The Founding Fathers were overwhelmingly what we today call Libertarian in their viewpoints.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
You mean like the DNC does?
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
And Hitler wouldn't lie, would he? Of course not. In the Bizarro World she lives in,only people who claim to be conservative lie. Uncle Joe Stalin was just misunderstood.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
While you are at it,make sure that you remember that war was a regular poster on LP too,before he got bounced.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Yea so? IN retrospect that was a sign of my normalcy...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
Which part? Starting with the first word and ending at the last and in between... No stems, no seeds that you don't need . . . Acapulco Gold is . . . . {{{pfffffffffffft}}} . . . BADDDDASS WEED!!
__________________________________________________________________________________________ Yea so? So you clearly implied someone else was stupid because they were a regular poster at LP. IN retrospect that was a sign of my normalcy... Posting there was,getting bounced is a sign of nothing at all. Normal people like to hear a variety of viewpoints,and argue their points against the points of others because they understand that it not only helps refine their own arguments,but maybe there is a chance they can convince a sheeple from the other side to consider an opposing point of view. Unfortunately,there are too few people that want to hear anything other than echoes,and even fewer boards were opposing views are tolerated. Usually it is a gang of leftists ratpacking anybody that doesn't agree with the collective viewpoint,or a gang of neo-cons doing the same things for the same reasons.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
If you're worried about scaring, you should consult your doctor.
"You post articles- intellectual excrement, really- that support your inane, insipid mentality, on a regular basis. Capitalist Eric
It's not called The Cuckoo's Nest for nossing, Schotzie... Normal people like to hear a variety of viewpoints,and argue their points against the points of others because they understand that it not only helps refine their own arguments,but maybe there is a chance they can convince a sheeple from the other side to consider an opposing point of view. Did you just talk yourself into agreeing with me?
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
Big Bamboo....
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
No,but it seems like I talked you into agreeing with me. Mostly. You still won't admit you were wrong for slamming anybody that posts on LP even though you used to post there daily until you got banned.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
I wasn't wrong. 100% very happy that I no longer post there and here's one of 10,000,000 reasons why... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ #79. To: sneakypete (#22) (Edited) Okay. NOW you're lying! It was explained to you by others, and by me, that the sight of the first gun was BAD. It was off. And here you go lying about it again. Her father is a very experienced hunter, and HE didn't know the sight was bad. I know you know better...and that pisses me off beyond words. One thing I cannot tolerate is a liar...especially when I know they know the truth. You just keep lying about Palin on LP, and pretty soon, you'll be lyin about her someplace else. I have a ZERO tolerance for liars, especially about Sarah Palin and her kin. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED. Goldi-Lox posted on 2010-12-14 15:56:31 ET Reply Trace
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED. Goldi-Lox posted on 2010-12-14 15:56:31 ET Reply Trace Too Funny. I wondered why Sneaky did a flip on Sarah Palin. You have to sell your soul to post as a regular over there.
Sad...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
Yeah really, there used to be some good, honest discussions there.
Okay. NOW you're lying! It was explained to you by others, and by me, that the sight of the first gun was BAD. It was off. And here you go lying about it again. Her father is a very experienced hunter, and HE didn't know the sight was bad. I know you know better...and that pisses me off beyond words. One thing I cannot tolerate is a liar...especially when I know they know the truth. You just keep lying about Palin on LP, and pretty soon, you'll be lyin about her someplace else. I have a ZERO tolerance for liars, especially about Sarah Palin and her kin. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED. Goldi-Lox posted on 2010-12-14 15:56:31 ET Reply Trace Now post my response to her,and note that I am still able to post there.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Not the point. She is the issue not you...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
Because despite the great start she made posing as a conservative,she was seduced by the fame and the money,and quickly became a RINO. If I were insane enough to want to support and vote for a Dim,I'd support and vote for a real one that wasn't ashamed to admit they are a Dim. The only real differences between McLunatic and Barry Soetoro were skin color and one was a VERY competent corrupt thief,and the darker one a very incompetent thief. Given that choice,Barry Soetoro was and is a lesser danger to the Republic than McLunatic,who has decades of favors owed,experience,personal friendships with the other DC insider criminal class known as politicians,AND he knows where the bodies are buried. He would have been harmful to our Republic and Constitution on a level that Barry can only dream about about. The fact is that every time Palin spoke out about what a loser Barry Soetoro was and how dangerous he would be to our Republic,McLunatic held a press conference to publicly spank her and apologize for her remarks. Despite being attacked by her own party more often than by her opponents she did everything but blow him in public after the election was over in a effort to try to stay at the top of the RINO shit pile. Hell,she even campaigned for his re-election to the Senate. There is NO excuse for that other than to advance her own career. I am now convinced that regardless of what her personal convictions are that she will say and do whatever is required to keep promoting her career. IF she is successful at convincing the RINO Cardinals that she can be trusted to not upset their apple carts,they MIGHT allow her to kiss their rings and run for President in 2012. If she is successful she will win. There is not one chance in hell of the retard in the WH now beating her. Having said that,she still won't get MY vote. I no longer vote for the lesser of two evils. I only vote for people I actually want to see in office.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Now sheeet - where have I heard that...
"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama
Refute insanity? No thanks - it gives me a headache.
"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama
Wow...are you calling me...your version of a "nigger"? Goin' easy on me I guess - you could be calling me a "Teabagger."
"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama
lucysmom: That's because you understood it. Liberator: The lunatics in the asylum have their own language. I find it charming. Carry on.
"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama
You're delusional, it's as simple as that. That's another way to put it. What's funny is they actually believe their own bizarro-world fairy tales.
"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama
Yep - logic and common sense are treated by these folks as though they're radioactive. The names may be different here but the talking points and fairy tales from mininggoldlucysmomwarskipintro are exactly the same with NO deviation, NO challenges of 0bama and the Dems, and NO questions as the left's agenda shreds the Constitution. EVER. They are the definition of "tool."
"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama
To the Gulag with you! After a proper stay in a mental hospital,of course. HEH! I count Pete +4.
"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama
In AMERICA,it means you follow the founders of this country and promote maximum individual freedoms while keeping a close eye and a short chain on the necessary evil that is government. The result was the Bill of Rights that RECOGNIZE rights mankind is born with and puts limits on the power of government. The Founding Fathers were overwhelmingly what we today call Libertarian in their viewpoints. Nicely and succinctly stated. Now WHAT issue might the house liberals here have with your definition? Oh, that's right - they endorse THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE.
"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestI noticed that both you and Junior attacked her personally rather than refuted any point that she made.
#192. To: mininggold (#190)
His [Hitler] practice was much like the current crop that call themselves conservatives in the US.
#193. To: Liberator (#191)
WHAT "point" did she make? She scraped a bunch of stuff off the ground, tossed it into a mixing bowl and called what came out of the oven a "cake."
#194. To: Liberator (#189)
Okay kids - be good. I've got to go to work because I'm a conservative.
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#195. To: Liberator (#192)
To call you insane is insulting to the insane. You're insane x 1000.
#196. To: mininggold (#195)
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#197. To: Liberator, mininggold (#176)
Wow. What a convoluted, dead-end horseshit response by mininggold.
#198. To: war (#178)
I found her answer to be accurate...
#199. To: mininggold (#190)
His practice was much like the current crop that call themselves conservatives in the US.
#200. To: mininggold (#195)
Why don't you refute it if you can.
#201. To: mininggold (#195)
Why don't you refute it if you can.
Capitalist Eric: Foreplay before the president's staff? 
#202. To: Liberator (#176)
Wow. What a convoluted, dead-end horseshit response by mininggold.
For their next distracting trick, I predict war and Mininggold will march through this forum on circus elephants in matching red lycra-spandex jumpsuits and tooting vuvuzelas.
Capitalist Eric: Foreplay before the president's staff?
#203. To: Capitalist Eric (#201)
It is not necessary to "refute" that which is obviously untrue.
#204. To: lucysmom (#203)
Capitalist Eric: Foreplay before the president's staff?
#205. To: mininggold (#153)
But it's so easy to get you Tea Baggers to strut your stuff.
#206. To: mininggold (#169)
Histrionics aside, all pete has to do is post a definition of 'conservative'.
#207. To: mininggold (#180)
The Nazi Party ran on a platform of promising to return Germany to it's past greatness.
#208. To: Liberator, mininggold (#186)
The Nazi Party ran on a platform of promising to return Germany to it's past greatness.
#209. To: war, mininggold (#196)
Keep in mind that the person hurling that invective is a regular poster at LP...
#210. To: sneakypete (#209)
(Edited)
While you are at it,make sure that you remember that war was a regular poster on LP too,before he got bounced.
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#211. To: war, Liberator (#185)
I found her answer to be accurate...
ABC NEWS: [Ron Paul] added that the United States is in 130 countries and has 900 bases around the world, and added that “we’re broke.”. He was booed at a Tea-Party debate.
Congratulations Mr. and Mrs. Statist and all ships at sea. Your demonization of the Tea Party has worked - you need no longer fear it! Carry on!!
#212. To: war (#210)
While you are at it,make sure that you remember that war was a regular poster on LP too,before he got bounced.
#213. To: Capitalist Eric (#204)
Does your hairline hide your lobotomy scars?
#214. To: sneakypete (#212)
So you clearly implied someone else was stupid because they were a regular poster at LP.
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#215. To: Get Outta Dodge! (#211)
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#216. To: war (#214)
Did you just talk yourself into agreeing with me?
#217. To: sneakypete (#216)
You still won't admit you were wrong for slamming anybody that posts on LP even though you used to post there daily until you got banned.
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#218. To: war (#217)
I have a ZERO tolerance for liars, especially about Sarah Palin and her kin.
#219. To: mininggold (#218)
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#220. To: war (#219)
Sad...
#221. To: war (#217)
#79. To: sneakypete (#22) (Edited)
#222. To: sneakypete (#221)
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#223. To: mininggold (#218)
(Edited)
Too Funny. I wondered why Sneaky did a flip on Sarah Palin.
#224. To: Get Outta Dodge!, war (#211)
No stems, no seeds that you don't need . . .
#225. To: mininggold (#195)
Why don't you refute it if you can.
#226. To: war (#196)
Keep in mind that the person hurling that invective is a regular poster at LP...
#227. To: lucysmom, war (#198)
war: "I found her [gobbledygook] answer to be accurate..."
#228. To: Capitalist Eric, mininggold (#201)
It is not necessary to "refute" that which is obviously untrue.
#229. To: Capitalist Eric (#202)
Do NOT expect her to actually think beyond her knee-jerk talking points... she just can't bring herself to make the transition to logic and common-sense...
#230. To: sneakypete, mininggold (#205)
I'm not a Tea Bagger,but what is a "progressive" like you that wants a return to the 1920's in Russia doing making slurs against homosexuals?
#231. To: sneakypete, mininggold (#206)
mininggold: Histrionics aside, all pete has to do is post a definition of 'conservative'.
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