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Title: The Electric Car Nightmare
Source:
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URL Source: http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article30619.html
Published: Sep 26, 2011
Author: Andrew_McKillop
Post Date: 2011-09-26 14:12:16 by Capitalist Eric
Keywords: None
Views: 112601
Comments: 247
Electric car and low carbon energy boomers from Carlos Ghosn of Renault-Nissan and Dan Akerson of GM, to Sir Richard Branson, Al Gore, James Lovelock, Stewart Brand and a host of other promoters of the politically correct future never lose a chance preaching massive numbers of all electric cars in the national car fleets of every developed country by around 2020. To be sure, what "massive" means is variable geometry - it could be just a few million cars, it might be more and they hope out loud, a lot more. Ghosn says his firm will be able to crank out 1 million-a-year Leaf-type family electric saloons "by 2015", and much more after that. Other major car making chiefs like Akerson, and the chiefs of emerging giant automakers in China and India are less sure, or more cautious, but say they could easily match anything Renault-Nissan can do "within 10 or 15 years" if the market demand - and above all the government subsidies - are there. Ghosn thinks out loud that French and other European governments will jumpstart the electric car flood by handing out subsidies of up to 7000 euro on each electric car. For 1 million-a-year that would be a cool 7 billion euro-a-year tinkling through Renault-Nissan cash registers, handed out by generous, but unfortunately stony broke European governments. Is that credible ? Is that sustainable ? We also need to believe there will be magic scientific breakthroughs with electric car batteries, making them cheaper, easier and faster to charge, have longer life times, and not flake out after a few hundred recharges in fast charge mode, using high voltage and high amperage charging instead of regular home voltage plug-in charging at a mere 5 kW a time. We will hope, with the car industry, that rare earth element supply will keep up with mass production of electric cars (needing strange expensive metals like neodymium for electric motor magnets), noting that present world supply is at present about 95 percent sourced from China, which does not intend to raise production, but cut it. We will suppose that battery swapping problems will be solved: each electric car in the hoped-for new and massive all electric car fleets of Europe, the US, Japan, China and India will need as many as 3 batteries, at around 12 000 euro each, to keep the cars running 24/7. Funky highway swap stations run by Better Place and other new entrant, nice business model players will look after this, we are told, backed by supposedly serious banks - seriously close to failure and needing new and massive bailouts of public cash again - like HSBC which arranged $ 350 million of loans for Better Place. ITS NIGHTTIME AND WINTER We are imagining all those problems were solved - and the electric power nightmare is now certain. If the electric car future happens - if the things are built and operated in the numbers that the boomers dream about in public - we are almost sure to get massive electric power system failures. Power down. Lights out. System breakdown. Take the case of Europe. Say the boomers' dream came true in Europe, with its all-green low carbon energy quest written into the laws and regulations of all 27 member states since December 2008. This says at least 20 percent of all energy in Europe must be renewable by 2020, and also that energy demand per unit economic output will be cut by 20 percent: energy economy will be promoted by all means, including cuts in transport energy demand. In Europe's cities of 2020, the European Commission says, the public will love bicycles, electric trams, electric trains and gas powered buses - and will adore electric cars. Road and land transport presently takes about 7.8 million barrels a day, or one-half of all oil consumed in Europe. Replacing even a tiny part of that with biofuels is such a no-no that the first target of replacing oil in transport, of 10 percent by 2020 (not even 20 percent, you note) was cut to 5.6 percent a few months after the December 2008 European low carbon quest was announced. This new modest 5.6 percent goal could itself be cut even further. So the natural solution is: electric cars, recharged by windmills and solar power stations in those glitzy powerpoint shows on a host of European Union Web sites. Who cares if its not possible ? THE NIGHMARE COMES By 2020, lets suppose a massive 8 percent of Europe's car fleet is "all electric". To be sure, that 8 percent doesnt seem massive to normal persons,but if we supposed the European car fleet didn't grow by one single unit from 2011, from today's count of about 210 million cars, that would make about 16 million all electrics needing very regular charging, on Europe's roads in the year 2020. These 16 million all electric cars on Europe's roads would need about 5 kW when their batteries are recharged. As we know already from user and driver studies for electric car owners they have a paranoid and constant fear of running out of juice. They compulsively recharge the battery whenever it shows even a slight fall of its charge. They like fast charge high power battery boosting (440 volt triphase current), when it is available - despite it being very bad for battery life. Supposedly, again according to Ghosn of Renault-Nissan, high power booster charging will be made available in "hundreds of cities", in France at some undefined date, hinting that generous green-minded president Sarkozy will look after the problem of who will pay for that. So its Sunday evening in winter in Europe, in the year 2020. Everybody with an electric car is worrying about their Monday morning crawl-in to work on those 8-lane highways with thousands of other drivers making it to work, at an average 10 miles-per-hour in their non-electric cars able to hit 100 miles-per-hour. In those urban daily crawl-ins the recommended battery stretching maximum cruise speed of about 40 miles-per-hour for electric cars is not such problem - but the battery charging mania is. Like we already know, electric cars are quiet, accelerate fast if the battery is charged, and as long as you dont run the heater and de-icer in winter or airconditioning in summer, the wipers, the headlamps, the in-car stereo, the GPS, telephone, computer and other power-consuming needs and gimmicks, you might get 100 miles with a fully charged battery, if you run economic for the last 30 or 40 miles of the charge, at a speed of 25 or 30 miles-per-hour. And that only costs about 35 000 euro for a Leaf ! HOW DO WE CHARGE THE THINGS ? Running real sweet and low, that is slow and economical in the daily crawl-in to work should not be a problem for proud owners of planet saving all electrics, but funny thing, Carlos Ghosn and Dan Akerson, and all the other boomers and promoters never say that. Our problem is that its Sunday night in winter, in Europe in 2020, and there are 16 million all electric cars out there to charge at 5 kW each. Its cold, the wind is not blowing so you can forget about windmills (Europe proudly has about 45 percent of the world's entire windfarm capacity, as of early 2011), and its nighttime, so those expensive solar power plants are also off-line. We will however be generous, and imagine that only 80 percent of the European all electric car fleet is going to be on charge at those somber moments. Say 13 million plugged in and needing 5 kW for 5 hours, to charge their big, heavy, low power storage capacity (able to store about the energy equivalent of 1 US gallon of fuel), and very expensive batteries. Down at Better Place and its highway battery swap station clones, imagine what they are doing on Sunday nights ? Charging batteries. To be sure, the electric car boomers never get on to how we supply the power, but we will. Charging 13 million cars, some 80 percent of a massive 8 percent of Europe's car fleet number of today, will make it necessary to find 5 x 13 million kilowatts of additional power. That is 65 million kilowatts of power. In the electricity business they talk megawatts, so the need is 65 000 MW. One way to understand what that means: in Carlos Ghosn's soft touch France of Nicolar Sarkozy, its much vaunted nuclear power programme - supplying the most national nuclear electric power in the world - has a total of 58 nuclear reactors with a combined total capacity of around 63 600 MW. That is if all of them could run at full power simultaneously - which they can't. It took France around 40 years to build up that 63 600 MW of nuclear capacity, we can add. So one way we could or might charge up a lot less than 8 percent of the European car fleet would be to build 65 000 MW of new electric power capacity. Since that in fact is not going to be possible - electric car owners will need to be told to not use their electric cars and use one or other of their family fleet of good old thermal-type cars, or take a day off, use bicycles or buses, work at home, or give up working entirely - after all, they are saving the planet by preventing global warming catastrophe ! Otherwise, it is easy to forecast what happens when around 13 million all electric cars plug-in simultaneously. We get total system overload, large area power cuts, and possible long term damage to overused power grids, transformer stations, and electrical equipment as power surges and collapses with the onslaught of demand. AND WHAT WOULD IT COST ? What would it cost to charge the hoped for mass market electric car fleets of 2020 ? This depends on how you do it. If we choose either offshore windfarms or nuclear power to do it, we have per-kilowatt capital costs of around 6000 euro in Europe. This is based on German, UK, Danish and other offshore windfarm construction and projects, and French EPR nuclear power plants being cumbersomely, slowly and expensively built at two-only locations in Europe (Finland, France). Each electric car costing the state 7000 euro in government hand-outs, would therefore also need about 30000 euro of invstment in new wind or nuclear power plants to handle its 5 kW power demand (and 3 times more if its needs 15 kW high charge boosting). The time limit would also be problem, but because we are discussing pure fantasy schemes and childish daydreams that does not matter. For amusement purposes, we could compare that 37000 euro total of subsidies-plus-power plant capacity needs, with the the lifetime average fuels costs of a normal thermal-type automobile - about 1600 litres of fuel, or 10 barrels, each year of its operating life. To be sure, $200-a-barrel oil, the favourite scary oil price forecast of Carlos Ghosn and Sir Richard Branson, would help make the electric car seem just a little less vanity tech. If we are talking solar power plants, plus nighttime storage of electricity able to supply 65 000 MW on demand the costs are so far out - if it was technically possible - there is no need even imagining them. We end up with a simple readout: we would need coal or gas power plants, but again for amusement purposes, we can give a price tag for charging less than 8 percent of Europe's fantasy fleet of all electric cars in the year 2020 using "low carbon" nuclear or offshore wind power. At 6000 euro per kilowatt, and 6 billion euro for 1000 MW of power generating capacity, we find that for 65 000 MW the spending need would be 378 billion euro. At a mere 1500 euro per kilowatt for coal fired plants with CCS, the price tag would only be around 95 billion euro - but who is going to pay ? IT WONT HAPPEN Welcome to the "all electric" car future - that will not happen. If it did, there would be a permanent threat of total breakdown for national, or even continental power grids in the European case. Anybody who believes in that "ecological" future is just plain stupid or too lazy to work out a few simple numbers.
Poster Comment: "Anybody who believes in that "ecological" future is just plain stupid or too lazy to work out a few simple numbers..." ***AHEM*** Paging goober56, Rat-boy mike, loonymom/whining-old, calCON and the REST of the stupid, lazy leftists on this forum... LOL.
Paging goober56, Rat-boy mike, loonymom/whining-old, calCON and the REST of the stupid, lazy leftists on this forum...
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#134. To: lucysmom (#126)
The Chinese call their country the People's Republic of China, does that make them republican? I don't know why I even bother to keep trying to educate you,but here we go again. Germany was never called "Nazi". The word "Nazi" defined their political system. Maoism,a form of communism,defined the political system in China in the past,but China is no longer a communist country. They have morphed into being a fascist country. BTW,you still believe the US was formed as a democracy,don't you?
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Or you did research it,and are too stupid to understand what you read and STILL think it means I am retarded. Let me ask you this,if *I* am retarded,what does that make you,given that I could lost half my IQ points and still be 10 times smarter than you? Keep making those posts,though. Let EVERYBODY know how stupid you are. BRAG about it. Creating your own reality instead of using facts that don't fit your delusion is another symptom.
You consistently try to construe words to mean something other than what they mean. It's a typical leftist strategy, that appears to be clever at first, but is really just a way to effectively lie. I reject arguments where words are easily and intentionally distorted, to mean an entirely different idea. A word, as a symbol to mean something, cannot be taken to mean the exact opposite. DUMMY DwarF: ...I'm eating a meatball... http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=24347&Disp=35#C35 See post #136. It's a game with her.
DUMMY DwarF: ...I'm eating a meatball... http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=24347&Disp=35#C35 Let's turn this around; Where is it written that goobermint drones deserve fake jobs, phantom jobs, jobs that can be accomplished in two hours, or jobs that pay as though they are brain surgeons?
"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama
"It has been agreed that ‘sweet’ stands for one kind of sensory response, and ‘sour’ for a very different one, and nobody can singly on his own volition switch these two around, anymore than he could tell the clerk in a store that in his lexicon five is more than ten that therefore he ought to have change for his five dollar bill when he made a ten dollar purchase." Richard Weaver, The Stategy of Words, 1962 -- Just a plain definition of conservative would do, instead of indulging in your sinister scenario.
It depends on whether you follow classical definitions, modern definitions (as exemplified by the left-leaning MSM vs. the GOP) vs. liberatarians. You ask for a hard definition of a political viewpoint, which is the same as demanding a definition for the color blue. It's a bullshit question. And THAT is why you asked it. OTOH, the National Socialist Party of pre-WWII Germany (Nazis, as we call them) had an established ideology. You can't simply change history to suit your purposes, so you (once again) attempt to divert attention away from your loser position... How amusing. And... how typical.
DUMMY DwarF: ...I'm eating a meatball... http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=24347&Disp=35#C35 Really?? $50k just for a toy? LOL! Man, are you delirious. "Hard-working" folks often make LESS than $50k per year. And gee, if only I were a goob/union drone making $50 an hour, I too could afford a Tesla. Oh wait...that's only $2,000 per week and $100k per year - after taxes, about $70k. Based on this figure, please tell us Lucy just how the hell a "hard-working, successful type" affords this car?
"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama
Please substantiate your accusation, with links and quotes.
DUMMY DwarF: ...I'm eating a meatball... http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=24347&Disp=35#C35 It's less, and so what? How much money does it cost taxpayers to protect our oil around the world annually? So what? Should the goob subsidize MY ideas and inventions too? OR would 0bama's administration first require a tiny contribution from me like Solyndra? Oh...and that has ZIP to do with your "oil protection" theory.
"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama
Nice try,but you don't have Aspergers. You aren't smart enough.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
That may be, but solar/battery solves nothing TO-DAY - and especially the goobermint (and 0bama and Bush) doesn't ever get out of bed with Big Oil.
"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama
The evidence suggest you and yukon are...kindred spirits. Except you make even him look sane and hetero. Btw, tell me - why do you keep on using photos of moody men as part of your tagline?
"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama
I realize it disappoints you terribly, but you're wrong again. It's more a "Libby-Be-Disgusted."
"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama
YES! And you're its Poster Child (as if you didn't know you rascal.)
"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama
Yes. Thanks Miss Crabtree.
"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama
That is Tom Wilson who played Biff Tannen in Back to the Future.
Impossible. Goobermint is the source of ALL life, liberty, and happiness....AND FREE STUFF.
"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama
Thanks for the clarification... But it still doesn't explain Biffy's man-love fetish and obsession with HUGE photos of this guy, chronic irrelevance and drunkenness. NOT that I GAS.
"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama
The joke used to be that IQ tests were created by a team of Asperger's, of course we called them geeky engineer types in those days. But it's so easy to get you Tea Baggers to strut your stuff.
Biffy creates the flame and the moths flock to it.
So...sadomasochist queers in black whose goal was to murder, maim, and oppress others was "conservative"? Uhh...Nazis were liberal-statists on steroids whose goal was to suppress freedom and independence...like you and your ilk fantasize about.
"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama
Excuse me? Lol...wow. Your alternative universe just slipped further into NEVER-NEVER LAND.
"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama
This is why the government monopoly schools were first started in the U.S. -- to socialize children into progressive society. This is why the left keeps pushing to have children forced into government institutions at ever earlier ages. Both the Communists and Fascists also tried to create this new perfect socialist man. Nice kick-azz post. "Progressives" are about creating pods and sheeple and lobotomizing rational, thinking human beings. This forum provides a number of victims of the public school system's pervasive brain-washing and un-thinking obedience to the state.
"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama
But, as usual you couldn't help yourself, and he singed you good.
If I give you a time restraint on uttering the rest of the alphabet, you won't finish.
"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama
Liberator: We know you're not kidding. Of course not... It's a long-time SOCIALIST tradition... Yep. "Liberalism" is actually a misnomer; It's a cutesy word for "fascism."
"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama
Of course she does; ALL liberals believe as she does as do many RINOs and statists as liberals' natural allies.
"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama
Would you prefer the gold tooth/filling removal detail OR engaging in the really fun stuff of "re-educating conservatives" by medieval means?
"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama
MG, you were just schooled.
"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama
You can call 0bama "The One" too...DUH. What don't you get about "National Socialism," aka the "Nazis"??
"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama
Keep making those posts,though. Let EVERYBODY know how stupid you are. BRAG about it. *laughing*
"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama
It's possible for a country to want to CONSERVE it's socialist traditions, dummy.
Germany was never called "Nazi". The word "Nazi" defined their political system. Maoism,a form of communism,defined the political system in China in the past,but China is no longer a communist country. They have morphed into being a fascist country. BTW,you still believe the US was formed as a democracy,don't you? You're conducting quite a clinic, Pete.
"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama
Nazism is a German "tradition"?? Since when?
"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama
Histrionics aside, all pete has to do is post a definition of 'conservative'.
As I said above, when you gave ME this bullshit question: OTOH, the National Socialist Party of pre-WWII Germany (Nazis, as we call them) had an established ideology. You can't simply change history to suit your purposes, so you (once again) attempt to divert attention away from your loser position... How amusing. And... how typical." You're QUITE the one-trick pony, aren't you?
DUMMY DwarF: ...I'm eating a meatball... http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=24347&Disp=35#C35 While progress is usually linear in nature it's not at a constant rate of progression... Your boy JR's eyes just rolled in the back of his head with that one, btw...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
Why page me? Feeling needy again?
DUMMY DwarF: ...I'm eating a meatball... http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=24347&Disp=35#C35 I know how much you enjoy my tagline...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
Oh, I see. Ve shall NOT compare rabid statist-socialism to Stalinism unt Nazism cuz that'd be a gross misrepresentation of da troof. *eyeball roll* This is the thing, Skidmark: You lefties are either in denial, naive, or dopey. OR, all of the above. It really is as though you are blind.
"It's not surprising, then, they [White Pennsylvanians] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." ~ Comrade-in-Chief Barry Hussein 0bama
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestThat must be why they defined themselves as Socialists,huh?
#135. To: sneakypete (#133)
Typical leftist response. You claim to be more moral than anyone else,yet you try to ridicule me with posts about me having Aspergers Syndrome just like that is something to be ashamed of,when the truth is YOU are the one that is retarded because even after all this time you still haven't researched the Syndrome.
#136. To: mininggold (#131)
(Edited)
...prove me wrong.
"It has been agreed that ‘sweet’ stands for one kind of sensory response, and ‘sour’ for a very different one, and nobody can singly on his own volition switch these two around, anymore than he could tell the clerk in a store that in his lexicon five is more than ten that therefore he ought to have change for his five dollar bill when he made a ten dollar purchase."
-- Richard Weaver, The Stategy of Words, 1962 --
Capitalist Eric: Foreplay before the president's staff? 
#137. To: sneakypete (#134)
I don't know why I even bother to keep trying to educate you,but here we go again.
Capitalist Eric: Foreplay before the president's staff?
#138. To: lucysmom, sneakypete (#98)
I believe it has been established by the true conservatives posters that nobody employed by government earns his pay.
#139. To: Capitalist Eric (#136)
I reject arguments where words are easily and intentionally distorted, to mean an entirely different idea. A word, as a symbol to mean something, cannot be taken to mean the exact opposite.
#140. To: mininggold, sneakypete (#139)
Just a plain definition of conservative would do, instead of indulging in your sinister scenario.
Capitalist Eric: Foreplay before the president's staff?
#141. To: lucysmom (#99)
Certainly hard working, successful types can afford $50,000 for a car.
#142. To: Godwinson (#128)
You support a political system that gives support to science deniers so why should any people listen to your side....
Capitalist Eric: Foreplay before the president's staff?
#143. To: lucysmom (#99)
("Aren't they [Tesla] now asking the goobermint for another half-billion dollar loan? Or is it more?")
#144. To: mininggold (#135)
Creating your own reality instead of using facts that don't fit your delusion is another symptom.
#145. To: Godwinson (#100)
The production of oil - from the military budgets to the cost of transportation and refinement to the health toll that pollution from refinement and exhaust creates makes gasoline very inefficient.
#146. To: Biff Tannen (#101)
It's more likely that you are Yukon's son.
#147. To: war (#102)
Thought she did...a time out or a full "Libby Be-gone"?
#148. To: lucysmom (#103)
There's medication for dumb?
#149. To: lucysmom (#104)
Oh hey smartypants, did you mean conscience?
#150. To: Liberator (#146)
#151. To: lucysmom (#107)
Forces greater than government provided air and food.
#152. To: Ferret Mike (#150)
That is Tom Wilson who played Biff Tannen in Back to the Future.
#153. To: sneakypete (#144)
Nice try,but you don't have Aspergers. You aren't smart enough.
#154. To: Liberator, Biff Tannen (#152)
But it still doesn't explain Biffy's man-love fetish and obsession with HUGE photos of this guy, chronic irrelevance and drunkenness. NOT that I GAS.
#155. To: lucysmom (#108)
Nazis were the conservatives.
#156. To: mininggold (#154)
Biffy creates the flame and the moths flock to it.
#157. To: jwpegler (#109)
The left got just about everything wrong in the 20th century, not just economics. The left also believed that humans are born with a "blank slate" that can be molded to create a new type of person.
#158. To: Liberator (#156)
Excuse me? Lol...wow. Your alternative universe just slipped further into NEVER-NEVER LAND.
#159. To: war (#110)
The alphabet has a lot of letters after A, B and C...
#160. To: Capitalist Eric (#113)
gobsheit: Yea, I am waiting for the govt to build us them FEMA death camps so I can apply for a position as a guard. Then we can round you guys up and turn you into soap and or work you to death in Alaskan gulags.
#161. To: sneakypete, lucysmom (#114)
(To: Lucy): "Hell,you even think Boy Jorge was a conservative."
#162. To: Godwinson, Capitalist Eric, sneakypete, war, lucysmom (#116)
Sign me up for that death camp work, FEMA!
#163. To: sneakypete, mininggold (#122)
Where the HELL did you "learn" that nonsense? The Nazis were only conservative in the sense that they were NATIONAL socialists in comparison to their communist brothers who were GLOBAL socialists. A fascist is nothing more than a communist that has evolved. They,and you,are nothing more than leftists.
#164. To: lucysmom, Sneakypete (#126)
The Chinese call their country the People's Republic of China, does that make them republican?
#165. To: sneakypete, mininggold (#133)
Let me ask you this,if *I* am retarded,what does that make you,given that I could lost half my IQ points and still be 10 times smarter than you?
#166. To: Liberator (#164)
You can call 0bama "The One" too...DUH. What don't you get about "National Socialism," aka the "Nazis"??
#167. To: sneakypete, lucysmom (#134)
I don't know why I even bother to keep trying to educate you,but here we go again.
#168. To: mininggold (#166)
It's possible for a country to want to CONSERVE it's socialist traditions, dummy.
#169. To: Liberator, sneakypete (#167)
You're conducting quite a clinic, Pete.
#170. To: mininggold, Liberator, sneakypete (#169)
Histrionics aside, all pete has to do is post a definition of 'conservative'.
"It depends on whether you follow classical definitions, modern definitions (as exemplified by the left-leaning MSM vs. the GOP) vs. liberatarians. You ask for a hard definition of a political viewpoint, which is the same as demanding a definition for the color blue. It's a bullshit question. And THAT is why you asked it.
Capitalist Eric: Foreplay before the president's staff?
#171. To: Liberator, Capitalist Eric (#159)
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#172. To: war (#171)
While progress is usually linear in nature it's not at a constant rate of progression... Your boy JR's eyes just rolled in the back of his head with that one, btw...
Capitalist Eric: Foreplay before the president's staff?
#173. To: Capitalist Eric (#172)
Why page me?
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#174. To: Skip Intro, lucysmom (#111)
I see Lubricator is using the Rightwingnuts font.
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