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Foreign Invaders crisis cost $150B in 2023, forcing some areas to cut police and fire services: report Israel kills head of Hezbollah Intelligence. Status: Not Logged In; Sign In Economy See other Economy Articles Title: Super Committee Riven By Major Divide Over Basic Facts Source: Talking Points Memo URL Source: http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/ ... jor-divide-over-basic-fact.php Published: Sep 14, 2011 Author: Brian Beutler Post Date: 2011-09-14 13:33:30 by nolu chan Keywords: Super Committee, Joint Committee, Deficit Views: 17895 Comments: 38 Super Committee Riven By Major Divide Over Basic Facts Brian Beutler | September 14, 2011, 5:59AM Political debates over deficits and debt are always marked by obfuscation and technicality. The numbers are huge and frightening, the terms obscure and technical, and the simple, fundamental point of the argument gets buried underneath this avalanche of panic and esoterica. But for a brief moment Tuesday, under questioning from Sen. Max Baucus (D-MT), Congress' top economic analyst made it perfectly clear to everybody who was listening. "I think really the fundamental question for you is not how we got here, but where you want the country to go, what role do you and your colleagues want the government to play in the economy and the society?" said Doug Elmendorf, who heads the Congressional Budget Office. He was addressing the six Democrats and six Republicans on the new joint deficit committee, and for three hours he did his best not to get buried under the same avalanche. "[I]f you want a role that has benefit programs for older Americans, like the ones we've had in the past, and that operate for the rest of the government like the ones we've had in the past, then more tax revenue is needed than under current tax rates," Elmendorf said. "On the other hand, if one wants those tax rates, then one has to make very significant changes in spending programs for older Americans" or all the rest of the government's functions. [snip] Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest #1. To: nolu chan (#0) (Edited) I saw this in the NY Times this morning...they buried it on the National page...I found it to be one of the more important stories in the paper. America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." --GW Bush "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" --Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything... war  posted on  2011-09-14   14:13:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #2. To: war (#1) http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/09/super-committee-gop-unconvinced-by-cbo-chief-on-jobs-austerity.php Super Committee GOP Unconvinced By CBO Chief On Jobs, Austerity Brian Beutler | September 15, 2011, 6:10AM So did CBO Director Doug Elmendorf make any headway convincing Super Committee Republicans that a). the economy needs a short term boost of near term spending and tax cuts, and b). that the country shouldn't dive headlong, and unnecessarily, into austerity? If Dave Camp is any indication, the answer is no. The Michigan Republican, and chair of the House Ways and Means Committee said he disagreed with Elmendorf's cautionary testimony. "I think that one of the things we have to keep in mind is what we're charged with and the amount of debt reduction this represents in terms of our entire debt and how significant that is," Camp said. "As I said in my questioning of him, it's about three percent of outlays that we're looking at. It's about one percent of our GDP over the next decade. So I don't think that triggers the kinds of dynamics he was testifying to in other areas." Camp's back of the envelope math during Tuesday's hearing was based on the notion that the Super Committee will reduce deficits by one percent of this year's GDP every year for 10 years. However, as noted here, IMF economists recently warned that an austerity package of precisely that size will significantly increase unemployment and reduce wages. That's why Sen. Jeff Merkley (D-OR) is starting a drumroll to require the panel to ask CBO to estimate the jobs impact of any of their proposals. [snip] nolu chan  posted on  2011-09-15   18:49:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #3. To: nolu chan (#2) reduce deficits by one percent of this year's GDP every year for 10 years. However, as noted here, IMF economists recently warned that an austerity package of precisely that size will significantly increase unemployment and reduce wages. That's why Sen. Jeff Merkley (D-OR) That prick Jeff Merkley is whining about 1 percent. All the democrats need to lose in November. They are utterly useless at doing anything for Americans that is good. A K A Stone  posted on  2011-09-15   18:57:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #4. To: nolu chan (#0) (Edited) like the ones we've had in the past Some basic facts from the OMB: Era Spending Revenue Post WWII Average 19.8% 17.9% Last Year of Clinton 18.2% 19.6% 2007 20.6% 18.5% Above average revenue even w/ Bush tax cuts Today 25.3% 14.4% Revenues = Recession + Payroll tax cuts The government has a spending problem. Spending is higher than any time since WWII. Revenues are down because of the recession and Obama's temporary payroll tax cuts. Cut spending and simplify the tax code. That will get the economy back on track. Oh, God, can you ever imagine what would happen to the country if Lyndon Johnson were president? -- Jackie Kennedy jwpegler  posted on  2011-09-15   19:24:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #5. To: nolu chan (#2) Maybe somebody, someday can explain to me how taking money out of the economy is a positive for growth. America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." --GW Bush "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" --Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything... war  posted on  2011-09-15   20:03:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #6. To: war (#5) Maybe somebody, someday can explain to me how taking money out of the economy is a positive for growth. nolu chan  posted on  2011-09-15   20:35:14 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #7. To: war (#5) Yeah cut taxes and put the money back in the economy. A K A Stone  posted on  2011-09-15   20:38:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #8. To: nolu chan (#6) That's what's is so great about economics. You can say whatever you want and use vague algebra to "prove" it... America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." --GW Bush "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" --Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything... war  posted on  2011-09-15   20:38:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #9. To: A K A Stone (#7) Yeah cut taxes and put the money back in the economy. Obama has cut taxes and is proposing yet even more. I mentioned your stupidity before. Have you figured out why? America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." --GW Bush "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" --Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything... war  posted on  2011-09-15   20:40:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #10. To: war (#9) Obamas proposal has minimal tax cuts and a huge unpaid for 450 billion tax increase with interest. A K A Stone  posted on  2011-09-15   20:44:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #11. To: A K A Stone (#10) (Edited) Obama extended Dumb Dumb's tax cuts, moron. And his jobs bill is MOSTLY tax cuts. You should really just shut up Stone. America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." --GW Bush "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" --Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything... war  posted on  2011-09-15   20:45:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #12. To: war (#11) He didn't want to though. He got pushed. Obama is going to lose in November. Stock up on Kleenex. A K A Stone  posted on  2011-09-15   20:46:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #13. To: war (#11) With your oomments i'm wondering again if I should keep you around. A K A Stone  posted on  2011-09-15   20:48:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #14. To: A K A Stone (#13) Bite me. America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." --GW Bush "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" --Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything... war  posted on  2011-09-15   20:48:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #15. To: A K A Stone (#13) We're all wondering if we should keep you around. You lower the I.Q. of this site by at least 30 points. Skip Intro  posted on  2011-09-15   20:56:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #16. To: A K A Stone (#13) (Edited) "With your oomments i'm wondering again if I should keep you around." You like to have people around to bait and engage in the pretense you have any intellectual weight to your being. This is obvious. Ferret Mike  posted on  2011-09-15   20:58:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #17. To: Skip Intro (#15) I'm wondering if he really wants a website, America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." --GW Bush "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" --Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything... war  posted on  2011-09-15   21:20:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #18. To: war (#17) I'm wondering if he really wants a website, I think Mike has him pegged, but good. Skip Intro  posted on  2011-09-15   21:24:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #19. To: Skip Intro (#18) Mike probably gets at him the best, I'll claim a close second, America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." --GW Bush "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" --Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything... war  posted on  2011-09-15   21:29:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #20. To: Skip Intro (#18) (Edited) BTW, did you see Stone bitching that I post a lot - more than Boofer does? Does he even REALIZE that he has a website? America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." --GW Bush "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" --Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything... war  posted on  2011-09-15   21:31:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #21. To: war, *Ron Paul for President* (#9) Obama has cut taxes and is proposing yet even more. It's Wbush stupid to cut taxes without cutting spending. You need to target spending cuts to boost the economy... eliminate the EPA, Dept of Energy, Dept of Education. These not only reduce spending, but encourage business. For additional economic improvement, eliminate more government... It's a toxic parasite. "We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice. Hondo68  posted on  2011-09-15   21:36:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #22. To: war (#20) BTW,m did you see Stone bitching that I post a lot - more than Boofer does? Stone only wants high quality posters like Boris and Happy Q, and Boofer, of course. Skip Intro  posted on  2011-09-15   21:40:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #23. To: A K A Stone (#13) With your oomments [sic] i'm [sic] wondering again if I should keep you around. Drink much Stoner? Fred Mertz  posted on  2011-09-15   21:51:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #24. To: A K A Stone (#13) For the record, I can drink you under the table. The database doesn't lie. Fred Mertz  posted on  2011-09-15   21:56:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #25. To: hondo68 (#21) (Edited) Riiight...we want to eliminate the Departments that put the most money into play... We know that Bumfuck Alabama Arizona Mississippi Louisiana Alaska Kentucky tax bases are enough to sustain them without any outside dollars... America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." --GW Bush "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" --Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything... war  posted on  2011-09-15   22:02:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #26. To: Fred Mertz (#24) You know what cracks me up about you? That the way you post and who you actually are stand at such distinct odds... America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." --GW Bush "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" --Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything... war  posted on  2011-09-15   22:08:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #27. To: war (#26) Is that you Stoner? You've lost me here. Fred Mertz  posted on  2011-09-15   22:09:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #28. To: war (#26) Someone hijacked your screen name FYI. Fred Mertz  posted on  2011-09-15   22:14:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #29. To: war, mininggold (#26) My buddy who had his chest cut open yesterday is doing very well. I just would like to share that. Fred Mertz  posted on  2011-09-15   22:19:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #30. To: war (#25) (Edited) the Departments that put the most money into play... The parasites sucked the money they waste out of productive enterprises. They go forth like a plague upon the land. "We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice. Hondo68  posted on  2011-09-15   22:23:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #31. To: hondo68 (#30) The parasites sucked the money they waste out of productive enterprises. You must be talking about corporations, they have more money than they know what to do with. "...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly lucysmom  posted on  2011-09-15   23:53:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #32. To: Fred Mertz (#29) kewel... America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." --GW Bush "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" --Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything... war  posted on  2011-09-16   9:17:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #33. To: Fred Mertz (#28) Where? America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." --GW Bush "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" --Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything... war  posted on  2011-09-16   9:17:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #34. To: Fred Mertz (#28) Oh...geez...sorry...meant that for Stone... America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." --GW Bush "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" --Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything... war  posted on  2011-09-16   9:18:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #35. To: war (#33) He's in the Memphis VA facility; they specialize in heart stuff. I've got to get on the road. I hope my emails aren't spam to you. If they are just let me know. Fred Mertz  posted on  2011-09-16   9:31:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #36. To: nolu chan (#0) Cowards hide behind committee's. Sucessful leaders make decisions. Proxy IP's are amusing.....lmao Badeye  posted on  2011-09-16   9:34:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #37. To: hondo68, nolu chan, capitalist eric, badeye (#21) (Edited) eliminate the EPA, Dept of Energy, Dept of Education. These not only reduce spending, but encourage business Here is my jobs plan: 1.) Eliminate the Departments of Agriculture, Commerce (except for the Census), Education, Energy (except for the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, Los Alamos Labs, etc.), Housing and Urban Development, and Labor. As a part of eliminating HUD, turn public housing into condos and just give the units to current occupants. 2.) IPO the Post Office and Amtrak. 3.) Collapse the 72 federal welfare programs into 2 programs -- one that provides cash subsidies to the disabled who can't work and another that provides cash subsidies to the working poor to encourage work. 4.) Replace Medicaid with subsidized health savings accounts. 5.) Remove wealthy people from Social Security and Medicare. 6.) Bring the troops home from Afghanistan and Iraq. 7.) Require a periodic cost benefit analysis for all regulations and automatically eliminate those where the costs outweigh the benefits. Require Congress to approve and renewed regulations where the benefits do outweigh the costs. 8.) Replace the corporate income tax, payroll tax, and personal income tax with a national sales tax. 9.) Require people who are receiving unemployment benefits perform 40 hours of community service a week while they are receiving benefits (very few people will choose to stay unemployed for long) 10.) Pass a constitutional amendment that forbids federal, state, and local governments from: A.) monopolizing the delivery of any good or service, B.) granting a monopoly or oligopoly to private entities for the delivery of any good or service, and C.) using licensing or any other mechanism to limit competition in any market (licensing would still be permitted, so long as it wasn't used to restrict the number of competitors in a market). 11.) Repeal the 17th Amendment and restore the checks and balances between the federal government and the states. 12.) Eliminate legal tender laws. Eliminate the prohibition on the private minting of gold and silver coins. Except gold and silver from the federal, state, and local sales taxes. That would solve our problems overnight. Oh, God, can you ever imagine what would happen to the country if Lyndon Johnson were president? -- Jackie Kennedy jwpegler  posted on  2011-09-16   10:01:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #38. To: jwpegler (#37) Replace Medicaid with subsidized health savings accounts. How can people who live hand to mouth save money? America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." --GW Bush "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" --Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything... war  posted on  2011-09-16   10:27:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

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